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PGBsuperior
04-28-2005, 12:38 PM
Just heard on the radio that Bill Lockyer has put forth a proposal that all bullets sold in the state be required to have a serial number on them!

Obviously, it's not about crime, it's about putting us out of business.

Amy Lewis

PGBsuperior
04-28-2005, 12:38 PM
Just heard on the radio that Bill Lockyer has put forth a proposal that all bullets sold in the state be required to have a serial number on them!

Obviously, it's not about crime, it's about putting us out of business.

Amy Lewis

captainsdad2
04-28-2005, 1:05 PM
This is why California business and their jobs are moving out of state. California, by way of stupid, not thought out laws and regulations, is going down the drain. This law (obviously an anti-gun law) will cause many problems. The greatly increased cost (if available at all) of ammo will have a large negative impact on Law Enforcment budgets. Funny, isn't that the exact opposite of the intended effect? God save us from those trying to save us from ourselves!

bwiese
04-28-2005, 1:58 PM
The sad thing is that even if this law (SB357) passes unchanged, and there's no exemption for LEOs, is that the costs will just be kicked back to taxpayers anyway.

Ammo costs are relatively tiny part of law enforcement agencies budgets anyways. Even if they double, it'll just be a blip compared to much larger expenditures (like letting millionaire cops/firemen retire at 50 with 80%-90% of their peak salary as pension payments).

Bill Wiese
San Jose

RRangel
04-28-2005, 2:10 PM
Yes it's been mentioned. It's SB 357. Please write your reps.

http://calguns.net/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/545600176/m/26010516421

Some of us are always worried that our local cities and counties won't allow ammo to be shipped in from places like ammoman.com.

Only now the AG and his freinds in the legislature are trying to stop that in one fell swoop. What a load of garbage. Talk about insidious. He needs to be run out of the state.

edited for spelling errors. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

bwiese
04-28-2005, 2:32 PM
Good news: Lockyer won't be AG too much longer. Jerry Brown thinks he might take a stab at that for the Demos - dunno who the Repub contender will be.

Lockyer was hoping to run for governor, but has shifted his sights to state Treasurer, since state treasurer Phil Angelides is making noises about running against Arnie.

Bad news: AG/Lockyer's presence is relatively moot. Sure, he's championing it but the battle is in Senate & Assembly. If the law passes Senate + Assembly and is either approved or 'pocket approved' by the gov, it's all over. No matter how gun loving an AG we have, we're still dead meat if SB357 passes.

The AG+DOJ/Firearms branch is obligated to enforce all laws - even if Tom McClintock were AG, he'd have to as well.

This has moved out of the senate committee to main floor for debate, revisions, etc. NOW is the time to start writing your state senators.

It hasn't made it to assembly yet - hope it's dead and scuttled before then.

Now, this bill overreaches and is not just about rare guns (50BMGs) or evil black guns, but just common folks' ordinary guns and their ammo. So some assembly members that at least waver on firearms issues may not wanna make that big of a step - even democrats.

When you write, esp to Democrats, please be respectful. Some Demos are actually pretty progun in CA, esp in Central Valley, etc. Remember Gary Condit from Modesto?


Bill Wiese
San Jose

pre-aklon
04-28-2005, 8:36 PM
In an interesting development, in turns out that Mr. Lockyer's #1 contender among Democrats running for Treasurer is none other than the very author of this bill, Joe Dunn.

These guys are perfectly devoid of morals or any sense of honor.

PGBsuperior
04-28-2005, 9:17 PM
Ya know, I was just thinking about this, how are those numbers supposed to survive after the bullet is fired? Put them on the ogive and they are destroyed on impact, put them on the side and the lands and grooves stip them off, put them on the base and the powder burns them off.

Truth is this scheme is so full of holes once it comes under examination it will fall apart of it's own.

Many of us recall the incredible boondoggle of the Canadian gun database. They couldn't pull it off with the number of guns in Canada because they couldn't afford to set up and administer the databases for it. Imagine trying to pull it off with the number of bullets in California!

Imagine the databases for hundreds of millions of rounds of ammo. Where is financially strapped California supposed to get the funds for tracking every single bullet?

I was a systems administrator for 16 years, and I know something about the kind of hardware that would take. California flat out cannot afford it, and it most certainly cannot afford the staffing either at a time when they have cut law enforcement, firefighters, and other vital services.

Are fired bullets to be removed from the database? Registered as fired? Must they be retrieved and recorded as having been fired? Shall we send them to Sacramento to be recorded? How is the current status of each bullet to be tracked?

This is no more workable than the ridiculous "ballistic fingerprinting" scheme proposed by another far left whacko.

I am a one woman operation working my little heart out to keep my house after having been outsourced from my 16 year job at a liberal university for being a conservative Republican gun owner when new and very leftist management took over my department.

I put my heart and best efforts into making the finest cast lead bullets possible for recreational target shooters, hunters, competition shooters, and law enforcement. These have to be handloaded using equipment made for that purpose.

Tell me, have you ever heard of a criminal hand-loading his ammunition before going out to do a drive-by shooting or knock off a 7-11?

Can't say that I have. I think it more likely they just steal their ammo, or have one of their gang babes buy it for them.

Which brings me to another salient point, the black market this could create in un-numbered bullets.

Prices of these would soar, of course, and enough of we shooters have the equipment to produce them that there's no way in hell they could ever track us.

On a good day I can produce 15,000 bullets. In my GARAGE.

You can set up to cast bullets for as little as $100 or so and produce a finished product every bit as lethal as those made by the major manufacturers. You can do this in your garage, your basement, your bedroom, on the coffee table in front of the TV....though I wouldn't recommend it.

So of course California would have to crank up the War on Un-numbered Bullets. I imagine this would be a huge success, just like the War on Drugs.

Ya know, I should print up a few dozen large boxes of paper with bullet serial numbers and send them to Bill Lockyer by way of compliance with the spirit of his new leftist whacko idea.

Oh, and just how do they propose to keep us from driving just out of state, buying a few thousand non-California bullets and bringing them back?

Idiots!

schizrade
04-28-2005, 11:51 PM
E-mail this message to every politician in the state. Maybe some will take notice.

http://democrats.assembly.ca.gov/

http://republican.assembly.ca.gov/member/

http://www.govmail.ca.gov/

Wasting $$$ is no excuse.

icormba
04-29-2005, 12:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PGB Superior:
Ya know, I was just thinking about this, how are those numbers supposed to survive after the bullet is fired? Put them on the ogive and they are destroyed on impact, put them on the side and the lands and grooves stip them off, put them on the base and the powder burns them off.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If done with a laser... they could be etched in.
and Amy your right... it would be way too expensive for the average smaller company to keep up, nearly impossible.

I still can't get past the fact that the average thug isn't going to buy ammo at big5 anyway. If they find it so easy to obtain or steal guns, it's even easier to get the ammo for it illegally.

I remember talking to a buddy abut 10 years ago about "what would happen if they started going after ammo next?"

Next thing we know is that when we buy ammo we will need a ASC(like a HSC), our name in a database, and an instant rejection if we have had a parking ticket or previous speeding ticket on file. Oh, that's just after most Ca FFL holders FFL's have been recalled.

Spotted Owl
04-29-2005, 7:40 AM
Didn't Maryland pass a similar law a few years back that required gun makers to send a fired case to the state for each gun sold? It was supposed to make it easy to trace guns used in crime. As far as I know, the number of guns traced as a result of the law has been very, very small.

SB357 is nothing more than a further slide down the slippery slope of an outright gun ban in California.

Rumpled
04-29-2005, 5:15 PM
Maryland and some other states do require expended cases be turned in.
In MD right now, I think it's their AG that's saying they should scrap the whole thins as they've yet to catch anyone, and have spent millions of dollars.

Amy
04-29-2005, 9:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rumpled:
Maryland and some other states do require expended cases be turned in.
In MD right now, I think it's their AG that's saying they should scrap the whole thins as they've yet to catch anyone, and have spent millions of dollars. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, the ballistic fingerprinting boondoggle was a total waste of taxpayer's money to the tune of millions for no result whatever.

As bad as that was bullet serialization would be orders of magnitude worse were it to be passed into law.

Most politicians have at the very least a modicum of mental capacity, and perhaps some of them will see the fiscal disaster this portends should it pass.

I suspect it will go the way of the 5 cent per round ammo tax Lockyer last tried.

It's far more outrageous and impractical.

Amy

Turbinator
04-30-2005, 9:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Amy:
I suspect it will go the way of the 5 cent per round ammo tax Lockyer last tried.

It's far more outrageous and impractical. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It will only go that way if we do our part to make sure that it goes that way. Else, if we sit around, it's going to get passed "in the interests of public safety" and then we'll all be hosed.

Turby

SI-guru
04-30-2005, 1:04 PM
I think getting ammo manufacuturer's lobbyist involve may be a better move ? They will probably have better connection and direct us to where the most potential for swing votes will be.

just4fun63
04-30-2005, 1:21 PM
If the ammo mfgs were to hold together and tell California No AMMO for anyone. We won't sell to LE agencys, privates, anybody. It will only work if every mfg falls in line.

It might make some of the Police Chiefs change their minds on how good this will be http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif What a bunch of idiots.