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View Full Version : Various UOC situations...legal or illegal?


LesGrossman41510
09-13-2009, 2:15 PM
Note: These are all theoritical situations. I have not done or attempted any of these scenarios myself personally.

1. Bill is driving to the gun shop to have them inspect his pistol for whatever reason, he doesnt like carrying it around in the bulky lockbox so he carries the unloaded pistol with no magazine inserted in his center console. He keeps a loaded magazine somewhere else in the car, in this case his jacket. LEGAL or ILLEGAL and why??

2. Bill is driving to the gun shop with his friend Greg, for the same reason as mentioned above. He carries the unloaded pistol with no magazine on his person. His friend Greg is carrying the loaded magazine. LEGAL OR ILLEGAL?

3. Bill is driving to the range with his pistol stored in the factory Glock box, the pistol is unloaded but a full magazine is inside the same box. There is no lock on the box. LEGAL or ILLEGAL?

4. Bill lives in a bad neighborhood and needs to run to the grocery store late night. He carries his unloaded pistol on his hip. LEGAL OR ILLEGAL? What if he carries a loaded magazines on his person, is this still considered by CA law to be a loaded weapon because its on his person?

5. Bill carries an unloaded pistol on his hip, his friend happens to be carrying a loaded magazine for that pistol. LEGAL or ILLEGAL?

ke6guj
09-13-2009, 2:30 PM
Note: These are all theoritical situations. I have not done or attempted any of these scenarios myself personally.

1. Bill is driving to the gun shop to have them inspect his pistol for whatever reason, he doesnt like carrying it around in the bulky lockbox so he carries the unloaded pistol with no magazine inserted in his center console. He keeps a loaded magazine somewhere else in the car, in this case his jacket. LEGAL or ILLEGAL and why?? is it concealed within the center console, or is it open to view? if concealed, then it isn't UOC, and would be a violation of 12025.

2. Bill is driving to the gun shop with his friend Greg, for the same reason as mentioned above. He carries the unloaded pistol with no magazine on his person. His friend Greg is carrying the loaded magazine. LEGAL OR ILLEGAL?Are the items carried openly or concealed?

3. Bill is driving to the range with his pistol stored in the factory Glock box, the pistol is unloaded but a full magazine is inside the same box. There is no lock on the box. LEGAL or ILLEGAL?Is the box in the trunk or in the passenger compartment?

4. Bill lives in a bad neighborhood and needs to run to the grocery store late night. He carries his unloaded pistol on his hip. LEGAL OR ILLEGAL? What if he carries a loaded magazines on his person, is this still considered by CA law to be a loaded weapon because its on his person?Legal. Magazines should be carried openly. CA case law says it is only considered loaded when actually loaded. Unless you are a gangbanger, then there is separate law that expands "loaded weapon" to include having the ammo with an unloaded firearm.

5. Bill carries an unloaded pistol on his hip, his friend happens to be carrying a loaded magazine for that pistol. LEGAL or ILLEGAL?Legal. Magazines should be carried openly.


even if it is legal, UOC is not recommended by The Right People at this time.

LesGrossman41510
09-13-2009, 2:37 PM
So basically if the gun is being driven to the range/store it has to be in its case. I thought the only illegal place to store was glovebox and that center console was ok.

ahh so many laws.

ke6guj
09-13-2009, 3:17 PM
basically, concealed anywhere on your person or car is illegal. There is an exemption to the concealed weapon law for handguns that are locked in a case unloaded. A trunk qualifies as a locked container, a glovebox or "utility compartment" does not qualify. "Utility compartment" is not defined, so a center console could easily be considered such. And you did not mention it as being a locked center console.

If you do not understand all then nuances of UOC, then just keep the handgun locked in a case when carrying it on your person or in your vehicle.


basically, you need to read from 12021 through 12040, http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12020.php

Decoligny
09-13-2009, 3:31 PM
Note: These are all theoritical situations. I have not done or attempted any of these scenarios myself personally.

1. Bill is driving to the gun shop to have them inspect his pistol for whatever reason, he doesnt like carrying it around in the bulky lockbox so he carries the unloaded pistol with no magazine inserted in his center console. He keeps a loaded magazine somewhere else in the car, in this case his jacket. LEGAL or ILLEGAL and why??

Illegal. PC 12031 specifically states that the "utility compartment" does not qualify as a locked container.

2. Bill is driving to the gun shop with his friend Greg, for the same reason as mentioned above. He carries the unloaded pistol with no magazine on his person. His friend Greg is carrying the loaded magazine. LEGAL OR ILLEGAL?

Legal and illegal.

Legal - So long as the gun "carried on his person" is referring to "openly carried" on his person then the gun is legally carried.

Illegal - According to People v. Hale (1974) if there is an exposed firearm and a concealed magazine, then the magazine is considered an integral part of the firearm and is equal under 12025 to a concealed firearm.

3. Bill is driving to the range with his pistol stored in the factory Glock box, the pistol is unloaded but a full magazine is inside the same box. There is no lock on the box. LEGAL or ILLEGAL?

Illegal. If it is in the box, it is concealed per PC 12025. Since it isn't locked it does not qualify for the unloaded gun in a locked container exemption.

4. Bill lives in a bad neighborhood and needs to run to the grocery store late night. He carries his unloaded pistol on his hip. LEGAL OR ILLEGAL? What if he carries a loaded magazines on his person, is this still considered by CA law to be a loaded weapon because its on his person?

Per People v. Clark (1996) the gun is unloaded unless there is actually ammunition in a position from which it can be fired. This means that if the full magazine is in the mag well, the gun is loaded. He can legally have full magazines on his person as long as they aren't concealed (see above).

5. Bill carries an unloaded pistol on his hip, his friend happens to be carrying a loaded magazine for that pistol. LEGAL or ILLEGAL?

Perfectly legal. It is however still a good idea to not conceal the magazine as it could be interpreted to be a violation of 12025 per People v. Hale.


Hope that helps. Check out the pamphlets in my signature block. They will help explain this all.

Fate
09-13-2009, 6:34 PM
So basically if the gun is being driven to the range/store it has to be in its case. I thought the only illegal place to store was glovebox and that center console was ok.

ahh so many laws.

Actually it can be unloaded and sitting on your passenger seat. Loaded magazine right next to it is legal too. Everything exposed = legal. (standard "school zone" etc disclaimers apply)

LesGrossman41510
09-13-2009, 6:51 PM
Hope that helps. Check out the pamphlets in my signature block. They will help explain this all.

Nice, your response made it very clear what i was wondering. the People Vs Hale decision basically makes what i thought was legal, to be illegal, because they can interpret it as being on one person.

It just seems kinda risky. I know theres countless debates on here and people get chastised for not taking advantage of their UOC rights, but seriously, if i walked around with a pistol on my hip running errands people are gonna call the cops.

KylaGWolf
09-13-2009, 7:03 PM
Note: These are all theoritical situations. I have not done or attempted any of these scenarios myself personally.

1. Bill is driving to the gun shop to have them inspect his pistol for whatever reason, he doesnt like carrying it around in the bulky lockbox so he carries the unloaded pistol with no magazine inserted in his center console. He keeps a loaded magazine somewhere else in the car, in this case his jacket. LEGAL or ILLEGAL and why??


The penal code clearly states that the weapon cannot be stored in the utility compartment of a vehicle. The magazine is also illegal in this case since it would be concealed.


2. Bill is driving to the gun shop with his friend Greg, for the same reason as mentioned above. He carries the unloaded pistol with no magazine on his person. His friend Greg is carrying the loaded magazine. LEGAL OR ILLEGAL?

If the gun is completely in the open and unloaded then legal. Although your friend holding the magazine could wind up causing issues if the magazine is concealed.

3. Bill is driving to the range with his pistol stored in the factory Glock box, the pistol is unloaded but a full magazine is inside the same box. There is no lock on the box. LEGAL or ILLEGAL?

Illegal since the gun and ammunition are in an unlocked box.

4. Bill lives in a bad neighborhood and needs to run to the grocery store late night. He carries his unloaded pistol on his hip. LEGAL OR ILLEGAL? What if he carries a loaded magazines on his person, is this still considered by CA law to be a loaded weapon because its on his person?

The gun fully exposed in the open perfectly legal. The magazines can even be loaded as long as they are not connected to the gun and fully exposed.

5. Bill carries an unloaded pistol on his hip, his friend happens to be carrying a loaded magazine for that pistol. LEGAL or ILLEGAL?

Perfectly legal for both parts. Unless the magazine is concealed or you have the gun concealed.

Quiet
09-13-2009, 7:16 PM
Also, if you are going to UOC while driving around, you will also need to know where all the school zones are at and avoid them.

UOC + school zone (1000' from a school) = illegal

dantodd
09-13-2009, 9:36 PM
I know theres countless debates on here and people get chastised for not taking advantage of their UOC rights,

No one is being chastised for not taking advantage of UOC. In fact, most people have temporarily stopped UOCing because those people pursuing the reinstatement of our 2A rights in CA feel it is a politically disadvantageous thing to do right now.

chiselchst
09-14-2009, 12:19 AM
What does the U in UOC stand for?

TIA...

ke6guj
09-14-2009, 1:50 AM
UOC = Unloaded Open Carry