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View Full Version : Selling and Shipping a C&R Out-Of-State


Nihonto Chicken
09-12-2009, 8:16 PM
As a 03 FFL holder, I wish to sell ("dispose of") a C&R rifle (actually just the receiver, obtained long before my FFL) and ship it to a party out-of-state (all transactions long-distance, not face-to-face). Can I send it to the buyer (a non-licensee) directly, or do I have to send it to an 01 or 03 FFL holder in his state? TIA for your help! :)

DWarner
09-12-2009, 8:37 PM
Crossing state lines it has to go to a 01 or 03.

Nihonto Chicken
09-12-2009, 9:19 PM
Thanks! So, when shipping across state lines, there needs to be an FFL on both ends. Is this good as a general statement?

ke6guj
09-12-2009, 9:36 PM
no, there just needs to be an FFL on the receiving end. The shipper does not need to have an FFL.

Woodymyster
09-12-2009, 9:43 PM
As far as federal law goes, the receiver of the firearm needs to be an FFL. Thats how non-dealers can sell guns on gunbroker. However there are certain states like ours that require the sender to also be an FFL. For example our state requires out of state sellers to register thru the new CFID program which requires them to be dealers

ke6guj
09-12-2009, 9:46 PM
However there are certain states like ours that require the sender to also be an FFL. incorrect. There is no CA law that requires a sender to have an FFL. Do you have PC to back that up?

For example our state requires out of state sellers to register thru the new CFID program which requires them to be dealersincorrect as well. Any FFL who ships a firearm to a CA dealer must be register wit the CFLC program. But there is a CFLC exemption that says that non-FFL shippers do not need to deal with the CFLC.

I am not an FFL but I want to ship a firearm to a California FFL. Do I have to obtain a Firearms Shipment Approval number before shipping a firearm to California?
No. The requirement to obtain a Firearms Shipment Approval number only applies to holders of valid FFLs.

ledman
09-12-2009, 9:50 PM
Wow...this has been asked so many times...it should be a sticky.;)
DWarner is correct. Shipping Out of state C&R over 50 years old, must go to a 01 or 03 FFL, inside the state of CA for C&R over 50 years old, cash and carry to CA resident.

Nihonto Chicken
09-12-2009, 10:30 PM
Wow...this has been asked so many times...it should be a sticky.;)
DWarner is correct. Shipping Out of state C&R over 50 years old, must go to a 01 or 03 FFL, inside the state of CA for C&R over 50 years old, cash and carry to CA resident.

Sorry, I did indeed do a search here on this angle, but came up empty. There has been pretty good coverage on this site re the 03 FFL rights and responsibilities as a BUYER (natch, since that is the major impetus for most in obtaining a C&R 03 FFL), but there's relatively much less coverage for an 03 FFL as a SELLER ("dispositioner"?). I would have hoped that a Federally "sanctioned" party on just one end of the interstate transaction, either shipper or receiver, would prove sufficient to meet the presumption of honest dealing across state lines, but, of course, when speaking of so nasty and dastardly implements such as firearms, a maximum of suspicion and doubt must, of course, be applied. :mad:

ke6guj
09-12-2009, 10:35 PM
IIRC, the seller can sell to an out-of-state non-licensed resident when he is at the seller's licensed premises.

ledman
09-12-2009, 11:14 PM
O, don't be sorry, i know sometimes the search results do not show up, so thats why I said it should be a sticky. And yeah, it gets a little confusing, as everyone interpets the laws as they see them sometimes, but take what it(laws) at face value, and you will be good.:)
Lots of good advice here to. I have had my C&R since 2004, and I have read everything I can on the laws to make sure I am compliant, well, at least I think I am, lol...you never know what the ATF or DOJ will come up with.


Sorry, I did indeed do a search here on this angle, but came up empty. There has been pretty good coverage on this site re the 03 FFL rights and responsibilities as a BUYER (natch, since that is the major impetus for most in obtaining a C&R 03 FFL), but there's relatively much less coverage for an 03 FFL as a SELLER ("dispositioner"?). I would have hoped that a Federally "sanctioned" party on just one end of the interstate transaction, either shipper or receiver, would prove sufficient to meet the presumption of honest dealing across state lines, but, of course, when speaking of so nasty and dastardly implements such as firearms, a maximum of suspicion and doubt must, of course, be applied. :mad:

ledman
09-12-2009, 11:16 PM
IIRC, the seller can sell to an out-of-state non-licensed resident when he is at the seller's licensed premises.

Good point, very true.:iagree::gunsmilie::patriot:

Woodymyster
09-13-2009, 12:07 AM
ke6guj, you completely right.
My local FFL refused to accept a transfer unless the sender requested a Firearms Shipment Approval number which the sender could not get because he was not an FFL and so I figured a Firearms Shipment Approval number was needed to send any gun to a type 1 FFL in CA.
Sorry

skscj
10-01-2009, 12:43 PM
Can i sell a C&R handgun to an out of state 03 FFL holder? I need to get a copy of his or her 03 FFL first.

ke6guj
10-01-2009, 1:06 PM
Can i sell a C&R handgun to an out of state 03 FFL holder? I need to get a copy of his or her 03 FFL first.
yes you can. (I'm assuming the 03 holder is physically out-of-state and that you would be shipping it to him)
Yes, you do.

Also, it would be a good idea to send in a NLIP, http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/BOF4546NLIP0209.pdf , so that CADOJ can update their records.

5hundo
10-01-2009, 2:18 PM
As of July 1, 2008, California Penal Code Section 12072(f)(1) prohibits all Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), other than Type 03 or 06 FFLs, from shipping firearms to an FFL in California unless, prior to delivery, the FFL intending to deliver, sell or transfer the firearms obtains a verification approval number from the California Department of Justice (CADOJ) Bureau of Firearms. This includes transfers that occur at gun shows.

If you're shipping guns between 03 FFLs, the 03 FFL shipping to CA does not need to be CFLC enrolled...