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Phlather
09-12-2009, 4:28 AM
OK. I have looked as best I can in most of the .pdf's I could find and tried to read the actual laws but I cant figure them out.

Is is legal or not to own Old 30 round magazines for an AR/M4 in Cali?
Specifically ones without a date, or a date of 1992 or older? Does the Floor plate have anything to do with legality. Are some companies specifcally named that you can or cant own? Like C products or Parsons, Colt etc??

maybe there is a nice 'cheat sheet' for quick lookup on mag laws I missed here.

Thanks in advance :)

bwiese
09-12-2009, 6:01 AM
Is is legal or not to own Old 30 round magazines for an AR/M4 in Cali?


Yes. Possession is not controlled, only new acquisition after 1/1/2000.

As long as you acquired or possessed the mag for even one microsecond in CA before 1/1/2000, that hicap magazine is legal to have and/or reimport into CA today. It did not matter if you were a resident of CA before 2000 when you acquired that mag.

Specifically ones without a date, or a date of 1992 or older?
Dates are really irrelevant since any (or gradually all) mag parts over time might be replaced. They are not probative as to mag acquisition.

Does the Floor plate have anything to do with legality. NO. It's a part like any other - although, frankly, the least likely to fail or need to be changed. A person legitimately repairing a pre-2000 hicap mag would likely not need to change a floorplate as it's not really a wear part.

Are some companies specifcally named that you can or cant own? Like C products or Parsons, Colt etc??Again, all parts are exchangeable/repairable, so such info is not probative.


If someone is questioning your hicap mags, tell them "possession of hicap mags acquired before 1/1/2000 is not controlled."
If questioning is deeper, say nothing and refer them to your lawyer. Most people talk themselves into jail (accidentally or otherwise).

GrizzlyGuy
09-12-2009, 7:20 AM
maybe there is a nice 'cheat sheet' for quick lookup on mag laws I missed here.

Looks like you got your answer from an expert. For future reference, here is a great cheat sheet:

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Large-capacity_magazine_restrictions

Glock22Fan
09-12-2009, 9:05 AM
And even in the unlikely event that anyone challenges you on this, there is a statute of limitations of three years, so (even if they suspect wrongdoing), they would have to prove that the wrongdoing happened within the last three years. All you have to do is stay quiet and don't talk yourself into trouble somehow. After all, how can they prove that you owned fewer magazines two years ago?

Shotgun Man
09-12-2009, 9:15 AM
[...]

NO. It's a part like any other - although, frankly, the least likely to fail or need to be changed. A person legitimately repairing a pre-2000 hicap mag would likely not need to change a floorplate as it's not really a wear part.

Again, all parts are exchangeable/repairable, so such info is not probative.
[...]


Actually, the floor plate is prone to more scuffing than any other part of the exposed mag.

bwiese
09-12-2009, 10:40 AM
Actually, the floor plate is prone to more scuffing than any other part of the exposed mag.

True - but that's appearance-related, more than any issue of functionality.

gunsmith
09-12-2009, 4:08 PM
no such thing as a "hi cap mag" standard mags accept more then ten rounds.
CA mags are ummmm "sub standard"?

ke6guj
09-12-2009, 4:24 PM
the proper term is "large-capacity magazine". Large-capacity magazines have a legal definition in CA.

12020(c)(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

halifax
09-12-2009, 4:33 PM
the proper term is "large-capacity magazine". Large-capacity magazines have a legal definition in CA.

So If I buy some milsurp ammo on belts, have I broken this law? Is the belt considered a feeding device?

CSACANNONEER
09-12-2009, 4:36 PM
CA mags are ummmm "sub standard"?

Sort of like our politicians. Right?

ke6guj
09-12-2009, 4:41 PM
So If I buy some milsurp ammo on belts, have I broken this law? Is the belt considered a feeding device?



The following definitions apply to terms used in the identification of assault weapons pursuant to Penal Code section 12276.1:
(a)
"detachable magazine" means any ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm with neither disassembly of the firearm action nor use of a tool being required. A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered a tool. Ammunition feeding device includes any belted or linked ammunition, but does not include clips, en bloc clips, or stripper clips that load cartridges into the magazine.http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/chapter39.pdf

CSACANNONEER
09-12-2009, 10:34 PM
So If I buy some milsurp ammo on belts, have I broken this law? Is the belt considered a feeding device?

Not if you bought them before 1-1-2000 or, they are linked in 10 rounds or less or, you are LEO or otherwise exempt from the "ammunition feeding device" laws.

halifax
09-13-2009, 5:53 AM
Not if you bought them before 1-1-2000 or, they are linked in 10 rounds or less or, you are LEO or otherwise exempt from the "ammunition feeding device" laws.

I guess I will need a middleman to un-belt the 1000 rds :rolleyes:

RideIcon
09-13-2009, 8:03 PM
ehh... its not really illegal to "buy" them....
just sell, import, construct, modify, or anything else...
the seller is the criminal...

bwiese
09-13-2009, 9:06 PM
ehh... its not really illegal to "buy" them....
just sell, import, construct, modify, or anything else...
the seller is the criminal...

Please stop spreading this crap. Assume otherwise, esp given California courts.

Generally speaking, you can't participate in a transaction where one side is illegal.

Sniper3142
09-13-2009, 10:23 PM
ehh... its not really illegal to "buy" them....
just sell, import, construct, modify, or anything else...
the seller is the criminal...

Please don't spread incorrect info.

It is LEGAL to MODIFY your magazines as you see fit.

Ron-Solo
09-13-2009, 10:25 PM
Please stop spreading this crap. Assume otherwise, esp given California courts.

Generally speaking, you can't participate in a transaction where one side is illegal.

I agree. You might find some creative DA that would file conspiracy charges.

RideIcon
09-14-2009, 12:39 AM
Agreed, there is really no legal way to come into possession of a high cap magazine besides maybe finding one which will never happen, or purchasing one from a armored car company while employed by same company, but paragraph 29 states it would have to be returned upon completion of the job

CAL. PEN. CODE 12020 : California Code - Section 12020

(a)Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:


(2)Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.

(b)Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(16)Any instrument, ammunition, weapon, or device listed in subdivision (a) that is not a firearm that is found and possessed by a person who meets all of the following:

(A)The person is not prohibited from possessing firearms or ammunition pursuant to Section 12021 or 12021.1 or paragraph (1) of subdivision (b) of Section 12316 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code.

(B)The person possessed the instrument, ammunition, weapon, or device no longer than was necessary to deliver or transport the same to a law enforcement agency for that agency's disposition according to law.

(C)If the person is transporting the listed item, he or she is transporting the listed item to a law enforcement agency for disposition according to law.

(19)The sale of, giving of, lending of, importation into this state of, or purchase of, any large-capacity magazine to or by any federal, state, county, city and county, or city agency that is charged with the enforcement of any law, for use by agency employees in the discharge of their official duties whether on or off duty, and where the use is authorized by the agency and is within the course and scope of their duties.

(20)The sale to, lending to, transfer to, purchase by, receipt of, or importation into this state of, a large-capacity magazine by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.

(21)The sale or purchase of any large-capacity magazine to or by a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071.

(22)The loan of a lawfully possessed large-capacity magazine between two individuals if all of the following conditions are met:

(A)The person being loaned the large-capacity magazine is not prohibited by Section 12021, 12021.1, or 12101 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code from possessing firearms or ammunition.

(B)The loan of the large-capacity magazine occurs at a place or location where the possession of the large-capacity magazine is not otherwise prohibited and the person who lends the large-capacity magazine remains in the accessible vicinity of the person to whom the large-capacity magazine is loaned.

(23)The importation of a large-capacity magazine by a person who lawfully possessed the large-capacity magazine in the state prior to January 1, 2000, lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning to the state with the large-capacity magazine previously lawfully possessed in the state.

(24)The lending or giving of any large-capacity magazine to a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071, or to a gunsmith, for the purposes of maintenance, repair, or modification of that large-capacity magazine.

(25)The return to its owner of any large-capacity magazine by a person specified in paragraph (24).

(26)The importation into this state of, or sale of, any large-capacity magazine by a person who has been issued a permit to engage in those activities pursuant to Section 12079, when those activities are in accordance with the terms and conditions of that permit.

(27)The sale of, giving of, lending of, importation into this state of, or purchase of, any large-capacity magazine, to or by entities that operate armored vehicle businesses pursuant to the laws of this state.

(28)The lending of large-capacity magazines by the entities specified in paragraph (27) to their authorized employees, while in the course and scope of their employment for purposes that pertain to the entity's armored vehicle business.

(29)The return of those large-capacity magazines to those entities specified in paragraph (27) by those employees specified in paragraph (28).

(30)(A)The manufacture of a large-capacity magazine for any federal, state, county, city and county, or city agency that is charged with the enforcement of any law, for use by agency employees in the discharge of their official duties whether on or off duty, and where the use is authorized by the agency and is within the course and scope of their duties.

(B)The manufacture of a large-capacity magazine for use by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.

(C)The manufacture of a large-capacity magazine for export or for sale to government agencies or the military pursuant to applicable federal regulations.

(31)The loan of a large-capacity magazine for use solely as a prop for a motion picture, television, or video production.

(32)The purchase of a large-capacity magazine by the holder of a special weapons permit issued pursuant to Section 12095, 12230, 12250, 12286, or 12305, for any of the following purposes:

(A)For use solely as a prop for a motion picture, television, or video production.

(B)For export pursuant to federal regulations.

(C)For resale to law enforcement agencies, government agencies, or the military, pursuant to applicable federal regulations.



Please stop spreading this crap. Assume otherwise, esp given California courts.

Generally speaking, you can't participate in a transaction where one side is illegal.
:rolleyes:

Please don't spread incorrect info.

It is LEGAL to MODIFY your magazines as you see fit.

as long as you don't modify them into a high capacity magazine.... this whole thread is in regards to high capacity magazines....
not digital camo spray paint...