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View Full Version : Baucus Health Care Draft to Fine Reluctant Gun Owners up to $3,800


jmf_tracy
09-11-2009, 8:53 PM
copied from gun owners of america website:

http://gunowners.org/a091009.htm

Thursday, September 10, 2009

By now, members of Gun Owners of America should have received pre-written postcards opposing the anti-gun health care bills that are floating around on Capitol Hill.

Please send in those postcards -- as it’s very important for legislative offices to see mounds of gun owners’ mail being dumped on their desks!

Now that Congress is back in session -- and the President has given his televised push on health care -- it is time for us to redouble our efforts.

To review the bidding:

Every major health care bill being considered in Congress would require many (if not most) Americans to be covered by insurance policies written by the Obama administration -- so-called ObamaCare.

Among other things, ObamaCare will almost certainly require, by regulation, that all gun-related medical data be fed into a federal health database -- pursuant to a $20 billion program Obama insisted be included in the $787 billion stimulus bill.

So, as a gun owner who doesn't want this data to be trolled by the BATFE from a federal database, you might say:

* “I'm not going to buy an ObamaCare policy.”

or

* “I'm going to buy the type of insurance that I want to buy.”

Well, anti-gun Democrat Max Baucus (D-MT) has a question for you: “How would you like to pay a $3,800 a year fine?”

That's right. In a legislative draft released this week, Baucus would fine you up to $3,800 for not buying precisely the insurance policy which Barack Obama orders you to buy.

So, what's going to be required under ObamaCare? And how much is it going to cost?

Baucus isn't going to tell you that until after the bill is passed. We do know that, under the Baucus draft, a lower middle income family could be forced to pay up to 13% of its income to buy an ObamaCare policy. And, presumably, a middle income family would be required to spend much, much more.

Take into consideration that the Baucus draft -- with its $3,800 per year fines and its ObamaCare -related gun databases -- is the so-called “conservative” bill. This is the one that they're trying to get Republicans to sign onto because it's so “conservative.” The final Pelosi-written conference report will be much, much worse.

Incidentally, Obama opposed forcing Americans to purchase government-approved insurance during the campaign, but guess what? He lied.

ACTION:

1. Write your Senators. Ask them to oppose the anti-gun Baucus draft, with its requirement that Americans purchase an Obama-approved insurance policy or pay a $3,800 annual fine. This legislative draft has not yet been publicly released; however, several news agencies have reported on its key features -- and these reviews are widely available on the Internet.

Click here to use the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center to send your legislators the pre-written e-mail message below.

2. Distribute this email far and wide. There are people that you know who should be involved in the fight against socialized health care who are just sitting on the sidelines. Please forward this email to them and get them involved in the fight!

----- Pre-written letter -----

Dear Senator:

Please oppose the open-ended anti-gun mandates contained in the Baucus health draft.
Among other things, Baucus-mandated policies, which would have to be approved by the Obama administration, will almost certainly require, by regulation, that all gun¬-related medical data be fed into a federal health database -- pursuant to a $20 billion program Obama insisted be included in the $787 billion stimulus bill.

So, what if a gun owner insists on buying the type of insurance he wants to buy?
Sen. Baucus would fine him up to $3,800 a year.

That's right. In a recently released draft, Baucus would fine gun owners up to $3,800 for not buying precisely the insurance policy which Barack Obama orders them to buy.
So, what's going to be required by this Baucus¬-mandated policy? And how much is it going to cost?

Baucus isn't going to tell us that until after the bill is passed. We do know that, under the Baucus draft, a lower middle income family could be forced to pay up to 13% of its income to buy an ObamaCare policy. And, presumably, a middle income family would be required to spend much, much more.

Incidentally, Obama opposed forcing Americans to purchase government-approved insurance during the campaign.

In short, please oppose the anti-gun, anti-freedom Baucus “compromise” and please let me know exactly where you stand on this issue.

Sincerely,

Blackhawk556
09-11-2009, 8:58 PM
our country is in deep debt the government needs the money :mad::mad:

I"ve never heard of this til now

POLICESTATE
09-11-2009, 9:13 PM
I seriously hope this is BS

SwissFluCase
09-11-2009, 9:19 PM
I seriously hope this is BS

I'm having a hard time following this. With socialized medicine, wouldn't *all* injuries be reported to the government?

This health care "reform" is just such a big steaming turd in so many ways...

Regards,


SwissFluCase

POLICESTATE
09-11-2009, 9:23 PM
This Obama Care BS is going to destroy the republic. Hell over 40% of my pay goes to taxes in one way or another. Fed, State, FICA, Unemployment Ins, Gasoline Tax, sales tax, property tax, taxes on various utilities.

We're taxed almost as much as people in Europe.

Gray Peterson
09-11-2009, 9:27 PM
I take anything Gun Owners of America (And their sycophant local affiliate Gun Owners of California) with a grain of salt. After the **** they put gun owners through with that the lies they told about the NICS Improvement Act back in 2007, I can seldom believe anything they say.

jmf_tracy
09-11-2009, 9:28 PM
i found this posted over at the minionreport forums then being a GOA member i checked the website and sure enough it is there. i posted it over here because the calguns membership are the absolute best when it come to gun laws. i want to see what the people here have to say about this.

nick
09-11-2009, 9:34 PM
Max Baucus is anti-gun?

POLICESTATE
09-11-2009, 9:41 PM
i found this posted over at the minionreport forums then being a GOA member i checked the website and sure enough it is there. i posted it over here because the calguns membership are the absolute best when it come to gun laws. i want to see what the people here have to say about this.

I'll tell you what I say about this. If something like this WERE to pass, and I didn't have adequate health care insurance through work. Well you can't get blood from a stone can you? Molon Labe

Hunt
09-11-2009, 10:20 PM
none of this has any meaning anyway, after cap and tax, inflation, increased fuel costs, the other 60 % of the ARM mortgages reset and the greedy bankers continue their raid on American assets most of us will be living under a tarp and practicing deep breathing for patience while we wait in line for our bowl of rice.
Nobody will have 3,800 they would have accomplished "social justice" the American lifestyle is now on par with a Chinese peasant. please say it aint so

Barney Gumble
09-11-2009, 10:24 PM
Sounds like FUD/BS to me, but if you don't think so, go ahead and find the text of the bill that supports those assertions and please post it, I would love to see it.

dantodd
09-11-2009, 10:38 PM
I am pretty confident this is an anti-obamacare rant dressed in camo.

Yes, it appears that this proposal would penalize gun owners who choose private health care but it would also penalize non-gun owners who make the same choice.

For or against obamacare doesn't matter the problem is, just like the OCers at obamacare rallies, this appears to mix two issues in a way that isn't helpful nor completely honest.

Foulball
09-11-2009, 11:11 PM
I am pretty confident this is an anti-obamacare rant dressed in camo.

For or against obamacare doesn't matter the problem is this appears to mix two issues in a way that isn't helpful nor completely honest.

I agree.

(Note: edited original quote for clarity of that which I agree with)

wildhawker
09-11-2009, 11:20 PM
I would say that we'd be perfectly safe ignoring "news" from GOA... indefinitely.

Theseus
09-11-2009, 11:21 PM
My understanding is that the fines are not specifically geared towards gun owners, but that they would build in a penalty for not being insured.

The requirement, as I know, is only that you have some form of health insurance. If you didn't, they could fine an individual $500/year, and a faily some $1700. If your a family of 4 and make more than $66K then the fines could be as high as $3,600/$3800?

But it is not a "gun owner target."

artherd
09-11-2009, 11:54 PM
like the OCers at obamacare rallies, this appears to mix two issues in a way that isn't helpful nor completely honest.

Exactly. This isn't a gun issue. It's not really an issue at all.

bwiese
09-12-2009, 12:01 AM
i found this posted over at the minionreport forums then being a GOA member i checked the website and sure enough it is there. i posted it over here because the calguns membership are the absolute best when it come to gun laws. i want to see what the people here have to say about this.

This is GOC trying to "be relevant".

If it were something to worry about you'd've heard it from NRA.

There are always worries in matters like these, but matters are so loose and unformulated that there's nothing to react against. Letters on such subjects not tied to actual legislation will be recieved with puzzlement and posted to the nutjob file ("Que?")

Mssr. Eleganté
09-12-2009, 12:11 AM
I'm not surprised that the NRA missed this one. When the Metropolitan Transportation Commission raised the toll on the Oakland Bay Bridge to $4 for gun owners, the NRA didn't do squat. And don't get me started on the fact that gun owners can't buy liquor in California after 2:00 AM anymore.

cousinkix1953
09-12-2009, 1:54 AM
Max Baucus is anti-gun?
It doesn't make any sense. Nobody gets elected dog catcher in the Big Sky Country, if they are on the NRA's s--- list. Wanna bet, that even more of these doctor's who treat Medi-Care and Medi-Cal patients, will ask their patients if they own a gun?

Max Baucus represents a state; where the redneck Democratic governor Schweitzer packs a .45 automatic on the street. He was on CNN the other night bellowing about his right to manufacture guns in Montana. He's not engaged in interstate commerce; so the BATFE can go to Hell if they don't like it. We heard the same defense, from a Sacramento woman, who was arrested by the DEA for growing medical marijuana for her own use...

cousinkix1953
09-12-2009, 2:01 AM
I'm having a hard time following this. With socialized medicine, wouldn't *all* injuries be reported to the government?

This health care "reform" is just such a big steaming turd in so many ways...

Regards,

SwissFluCase
Plaxico Burriss shot himself with his own gun. It was an accident. He did not call the police. Hospitals are required to report all incidents involving gun shot victims no matter the circumstances...

luchador768
09-12-2009, 2:50 AM
I'm not surprised that the NRA missed this one. When the Metropolitan Transportation Commission raised the toll on the Oakland Bay Bridge to $4 for gun owners, the NRA didn't do squat. And don't get me started on the fact that gun owners can't buy liquor in California after 2:00 AM anymore.

:D:D Nice!

cousinkix1953
09-12-2009, 3:03 AM
I'm not surprised that the NRA missed this one. When the Metropolitan Transportation Commission raised the toll on the Oakland Bay Bridge to $4 for gun owners, the NRA didn't do squat. And don't get me started on the fact that gun owners can't buy liquor in California after 2:00 AM anymore.
How do they know that somebody is a gun owner, unless they advertise it on their cars? Most people don't fly their colors; because it makes them a target for gun thieves. Did you see that YouTube video of a Shreveport La. man, who was harassed by a cop, who saw the NRA sticker on his truck...

Kharn
09-12-2009, 3:17 AM
I wish I'd thought up the GOA scam years ago.
Send out some nasty emails about the NRA, beg for money.
Say you're refusing to compromise your beliefs by not talking to anyone that has ever compromised on gun rights (in reality, you cant get a congressional intern to return your phone calls even with promises of free beer and fish tacos, as you're so tiny and extreme), request assistance so you can keep refusing to compromise
Say you could get stuff done if you had more money, beg for cash
Claim with just 5k more members you could defeat the NRA, beg for members
Send another anti-NRA email, asking for cash
Never get anything done, cry for cash and memberships

In reality, all it takes is twisting the NRA position a few times a month, sending out a few random emails asking for cash and membeships, and suddenly you're flooded in cash from people that believe a no-compromise organization can get stuff done in DC.

cousinkix1953:
He's pointing out that GOA is sounding the alarm that "gun owners" will be fined if they do not get health insurance, when the bill does not specify gun owners, it applies to everyone.

cousinkix1953
09-12-2009, 3:51 AM
He's pointing out that GOA is sounding the alarm that "gun owners" will be fined if they do not get health insurance, when the bill does not specify gun owners, it applies to everyone.
That's what I heard too. Fines for all of us. Bauccus would be committing political suicide in Montana if he pushed a bill that targeted gun owners. GOA has a branch right here in the PRK; but they aren't very effective any more. No press releases about the Cow Palace drug raid or most of the other topics discussed here. I don't that it would pay off giving them my $$$...

Meplat
09-12-2009, 6:50 AM
He was being facetious.;)

How do they know that somebody is a gun owner, unless they advertise it on their cars? Most people don't fly their colors; because it makes them a target for gun thieves. Did you see that YouTube video of a Shreveport La. man, who was harassed by a cop, who saw the NRA sticker on his truck...

cousinkix1953
09-12-2009, 7:00 AM
He was being facetious.;)

I never heard of a bridge toll increase in Oakland either. Nothing on the 10 PM news and nothing on KCBS radio either.

That cop in Shreveport wasn't being facetious at all. He actually does target vehicles with NRA stickers and harasses the drivers...

HowardW56
09-12-2009, 7:03 AM
I'm not surprised that the NRA missed this one. When the Metropolitan Transportation Commission raised the toll on the Oakland Bay Bridge to $4 for gun owners, the NRA didn't do squat. And don't get me started on the fact that gun owners can't buy liquor in California after 2:00 AM anymore.


What about when they raised the sales tax on gun owners.....

dirtnap
09-12-2009, 7:25 AM
What about when they raised the sales tax on gun owners.....

Or when they made Mcdonalds stop selling super sized items to gun owners....

nick
09-12-2009, 8:35 AM
It doesn't make any sense. Nobody gets elected dog catcher in the Big Sky Country, if they are on the NRA's s--- list. Wanna bet, that even more of these doctor's who treat Medi-Care and Medi-Cal patients, will ask their patients if they own a gun?

Max Baucus represents a state; where the redneck Democratic governor Schweitzer packs a .45 automatic on the street. He was on CNN the other night bellowing about his right to manufacture guns in Montana. He's not engaged in interstate commerce; so the BATFE can go to Hell if they don't like it. We heard the same defense, from a Sacramento woman, who was arrested by the DEA for growing medical marijuana for her own use...

Baucus is regularly rated A or A+ by the NRA. The original article has many inconsistencies like that one, which make it hard for me to take it seriously.

Mind you, I do think that this healthcare reform is a problem for many reasons, it's just that it's getting harder and harder to take GOA seriously. I used to donate to them a while back...

dfletcher
09-12-2009, 8:40 AM
This is GOC trying to "be relevant".

If it were something to worry about you'd've heard it from NRA.

There are always worries in matters like these, but matters are so loose and unformulated that there's nothing to react against. Letters on such subjects not tied to actual legislation will be recieved with puzzlement and posted to the nutjob file ("Que?")

You're being polite - Max Baucus, antigun? And implying gunowners will be effected in a particular way just because they are gunowners? Not at all.

Such a load of crap (now I'm being polite) from GOA.

Theseus
09-12-2009, 9:46 AM
He was being facetious.;)

Of all my high tech phonics. . . When I first saw this I was like... Wha?

face*tious? I thought surely you spelled it wrong. . . but nope! That is one jive word man!

Shotgun Man
09-12-2009, 10:23 AM
Of all my high tech phonics. . . When I first saw this I was like... Wha?

face*tious? I thought surely you spelled it wrong. . . but nope! That is one jive word man!

Read much?

RaceDay
09-12-2009, 10:27 AM
Or when they made Mcdonalds stop selling super sized items to gun owners....

What about when they laid off gun owners just before the gun owners' pensions were set to kick in?