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mikehaas
09-11-2009, 8:58 PM
NRA Members' Councils of California
http://calnra.com/skin/mclogoclr2.gif (http://calnra.com)
CALNRA: AB962 Mail Order Ammo Ban Goes to the Governor's Desk, 9/11
9/11/2009 9:00 PM - PLEASE DISTRIBUTE WIDELY

Today, AB962 Mail order Ammo Ban passed the Assembly (44 Yes - 31 No). The bill now goes to the Governor's desk. In order for AB962 to NOT become law, the Governor must actively veto the bill within 30 days. Please contact the Governor's office and urge a veto of AB 962.

Updates and contact tools available at:
http://calnra.com/legs.shtml?year=2009&summary=ab962

Stop the Cow Palace Gun Show Ban!
http://calnra.com/legs.shtml?year=2009&summary=sb585

KylaGWolf
09-11-2009, 9:03 PM
Already emailed him but will call his office Monday if I get the chance. I have classes all day and not sure if I will be able to do so during my break. If not then I will do so Tuesday.

Blackhawk556
09-11-2009, 9:59 PM
we are in hell

Darklyte27
09-11-2009, 10:04 PM
emailed.....

Sabot
09-11-2009, 10:05 PM
If I contact the Governer's office what can I say to convince this clown to veto this fraud legislation?

Gator Monroe
09-11-2009, 10:06 PM
we are in hell

and CGN posters who vote Democrat will keep us here (Because they should not have to change their voting habits over a hobby when more important issues than 2A exist for them .)

ETD1010
09-11-2009, 10:12 PM
I feel sick in my stomach.

Ruiner
09-11-2009, 10:22 PM
We all need to contact the governor. There are several thousand members on this site and it would be hard to believe that we won't make an impact if even just the majority of us started pestering the governor's office. I urge everyone to do their part.

Ronco
09-11-2009, 10:26 PM
I call and I write.

Sooooo frustrating.
:kest:

CnCFunFactory
09-11-2009, 10:29 PM
They are going to get us one way or another it would appear. Pathetic! :no:

Trench Broom
09-11-2009, 10:30 PM
E-mail sent.

Ruiner
09-11-2009, 10:34 PM
They are going to get us one way or another it would appear. Pathetic! :no:

It ain't over til it's over. Keep pestering the governor. :chris:

Gator Monroe
09-11-2009, 10:37 PM
It ain't over til it's over. Keep pestering the governor. :chris:

And tell every Democrat Firearms afficianado you know that they are no better than an Anti- if they vote Democrat in the midterms.

CnCFunFactory
09-11-2009, 10:41 PM
It ain't over til it's over. Keep pestering the governor. :chris:

Oh please don't take what I said to mean I am rolling over. Quite contrary, it angers me and simply motivates me just that much more!:mad:

bodger
09-11-2009, 10:46 PM
And tell every Democrat Firearms afficianado you know that they are no better than an Anti- if they vote Democrat in the midterms.


At this point, anyone who votes Democrat is voting FOR gun control. This is a fact, look how the Dems vote on these issues.


I vote based on a candidate's clear stance on Gun Control. Period. And I don't apologize to anyone for that. Screw the other issues. I'm keeping my guns first, then worrying about whatever else.

doug4747
09-11-2009, 10:55 PM
I sent a ton of emails, and called until the battery died, then charged it and called the rest.
Monday I contact the Governor's office. Email, phone, and good old fashioned snail mail.

Gator Monroe
09-11-2009, 10:58 PM
I believe that the purpose of the second is to protect every other right outlined in the constitution and bill of rights. The second comes first.

Until Democrat posters here get this , ...

Creeping Incrementalism
09-11-2009, 10:59 PM
We are screwed if this bill becomes law. This will increase the time and expense of obtaining ammunition immensely. We have all got to put in an extra effort to defeat this.

If the governor does not veto, when exactly would this bill become law?

bodger
09-11-2009, 11:01 PM
I believe that the purpose of the second is to protect every other right outlined in the constitution and bill of rights. The second comes first.


I'm in total agreement.

I once swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies, foreign and domestic.

And not long after I swore as such that I would do exactly that, I was issued a full automatic rifle, compliments of the U.S. Government.

They apparently thought it would come in handy whislt defending the Constitution.

I still feel that way about guns. :D

tuna quesadilla
09-11-2009, 11:02 PM
At this point, anyone who votes Democrat is voting FOR gun control. This is a fact, look how the Dems vote on these issues.


I vote based on a candidate's clear stance on Gun Control. Period. And I don't apologize to anyone for that. Screw the other issues. I'm keeping my guns first, then worrying about whatever else.

Yup. Gun rights and the Democratic party do not mix. Anybody who votes for the Democrats is voting for gun control. PERIOD.

Shotgun Man
09-11-2009, 11:05 PM
Yup. Gun rights and the Democratic party do not mix. Anybody who votes for the Democrats is voting for gun control. PERIOD.

Please don't let such thinking muddle your choice if Jerry Brown is running for governor. He appears to be a friend of the Second Amendment.

Now maybe there is going to be some dream (republican) candidate that comes along that trumps him, but I wouldn't count on it.

bodger
09-11-2009, 11:06 PM
I sent a ton of emails, and called until the battery died, then charged it and called the rest.
Monday I contact the Governor's office. Email, phone, and good old fashioned snail mail.


How many members are there on CalGuns.

What if we sent a massive amount of letters to Arnie via Fed-Ex, and did it so they would all be delivered on the same day?

Less than $20 for an overnight afternoon deliver I think.
2500 to 3000 or more Fed-Ex packages coming through the door of the State House all at once might make a statement. Of course, Arnie's office is not going to get them until they've cleared security, if ever, but what the hell?

Bad idea, good idea, stupid? What.

Ruiner
09-11-2009, 11:07 PM
Oh please don't take what I said to mean I am rolling over. Quite contrary, it angers me and simply motivates me just that much more!:mad:

Oh I didn't mean it that way. I was simply stating our motivation to do more :chris:

Gator Monroe
09-11-2009, 11:09 PM
Please don't let such thinking muddle your choice if Jerry Brown is running for governor. He appears to be a friend of the Second Amendment.

Now maybe there is going to be some dream (republican) candidate that comes along that trumps him, but I wouldn't count on it.

So voting for a nutjob Lib WHO Suddenly embraced 2A ??

Dr Rockso
09-11-2009, 11:11 PM
So voting for a nutjob Lib WHO Suddenly embraced 2A ??
Aren't you the one always telling people that they should be one-issue voters? Would you vote for Whitman over Brown?

Ruiner
09-11-2009, 11:12 PM
I just notified everyone I know and provided them with the means to contact the governor's office. These bills have to be shot down. :83::68:

Shotgun Man
09-11-2009, 11:15 PM
Aren't you the one always telling people that they should be one-issue voters? Would you vote for Whitman over Brown?


Oops, Gator got banned for some reason.

bodger
09-11-2009, 11:16 PM
Please don't let such thinking muddle your choice if Jerry Brown is running for governor. He appears to be a friend of the Second Amendment.

Now maybe there is going to be some dream (republican) candidate that comes along that trumps him, but I wouldn't count on it.

On the surface of things, Brown doesn't seem these days to be as bad as some other Dems on gun control.
But what he is most a friend of is getting elected, and he won't if he comes straight out as a friend of the Second Amendment. He'll appear to be something else pretty quick if he gets a whiff of defeat, whatever the reason.

His Republican opponent would have to have one butt-ugly stance on gun control before I would vote for Brown though. I don't trust him. I know there are learned individuals here on CG that think he's the best chance we've got.

If that's true, it only serves to further demonstrate how screwed we are.

Ksmash01
09-11-2009, 11:30 PM
and CGN posters who vote Democrat will keep us here (Because they should not have to change their voting habits over a hobby when more important issues than 2A exist for them .)

And tell every Democrat Firearms afficianado you know that they are no better than an Anti- if they vote Democrat in the midterms.

At this point, anyone who votes Democrat is voting FOR gun control. This is a fact, look how the Dems vote on these issues.


I vote based on a candidate's clear stance on Gun Control. Period. And I don't apologize to anyone for that. Screw the other issues. I'm keeping my guns first, then worrying about whatever else.

Until Democrat posters here get this , ...

Let us not remember the fact that all the people who voted for a REPUBLICAN Governor could also be blamed equally for the erosion of our 2A rights if he signs yet another bill aimed at stealing our rights away. At this point it's in his, a Republican's, hands.

I don't think it's a democrat or republican thing, i think we have some dumb-*** politicians in office "representing" us at the cost of our rights. I've long know Republicans to be the offending party, now democrats have joined the list of people who ,in my opinion, don't give a crap about people like me.

I ain't a Democrat or Republican. I see them both equally as one of the problems with CA, let alone America.

Creeping Incrementalism
09-11-2009, 11:38 PM
Let us not remember the fact that all the people who voted for a REPUBLICAN Governor could also be blamed equally for the erosion of our 2A rights if he signs yet another bill aimed at stealing our rights away. At this point it's in his, a Republican's, hands.

True. In my opinion, Arnold should be forcefully removed from the Republican party to eliminate this dilemma, due to all the various anti-RKBA and socialist legislation he has signed.

mattmcg
09-12-2009, 12:02 AM
Email sent to Arnold. Calls will commence next week.

For simplicity sake, this link will take you directly to Arnolds webmail page:
http://www.govmail.ca.gov

Be sure to ask for his support in vetoing AB962!

mattmcg
09-12-2009, 12:04 AM
BTW, do we have a list of who voted for, against, and abstained?

bodger
09-12-2009, 12:23 AM
Let us not remember the fact that all the people who voted for a REPUBLICAN Governor could also be blamed equally for the erosion of our 2A rights if he signs yet another bill aimed at stealing our rights away. At this point it's in his, a Republican's, hands.

I don't think it's a democrat or republican thing, i think we have some dumb-*** politicians in office "representing" us at the cost of our rights. I've long know Republicans to be the offending party, now democrats have joined the list of people who ,in my opinion, don't give a crap about people like me.

I ain't a Democrat or Republican. I see them both equally as one of the problems with CA, let alone America.


Seems like the biggest problem us gunnies have is that a politician who declares that he or she is a friend of the Second Amendment can no longer get elected to office.

So we're slowly losing out rights.

Lee F. Smith
09-12-2009, 12:48 AM
BTW, do we have a list of who voted for, against, and abstained?

UNOFFICIAL BALLOT
MEASURE: AB 962
AUTHOR: De Leon
TOPIC: Ammunition.
DATE: 09/10/2009
LOCATION: SEN. FLOOR
MOTION: Assembly 3rd Reading AB962 De Leon By Cedillo
(AYES 21. NOES 18.) (PASS)


AYES
****

Alquist Calderon Cedillo Corbett
DeSaulnier Florez Hancock Kehoe
Leno Liu Lowenthal Oropeza
Padilla Pavley Price Romero
Simitian Steinberg Wiggins Wolk
Yee


NOES
****

Aanestad Ashburn Benoit Cogdill
Correa Cox Denham Ducheny
Dutton Hollingsworth Huff Maldonado
Negrete McLeod Runner Strickland Walters
Wright Wyland


ABSENT, ABSTAINING, OR NOT VOTING
*********************************

Harman

jjperl
09-12-2009, 1:09 AM
SOB. I can't say I'm actually surprised this passed.

As long as people/"representatives" are willing to give up essential rights and liberties for supposed "security", we are all going to be in a lot of trouble. We need to elect people with some big balls in order to get things turned around, fat chance that will happen, though.

While I will try my best to persuade our gracious RINO, I mean, governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, not to sign the bill in my next letter/phone call, I wouldn't hold my breath for a second. His past history tells me this is going to be another nail in the coffin. :mad:

Libertus
09-12-2009, 1:44 AM
Email sent, hope it works. :rolleyes:

Federalist
09-12-2009, 3:59 AM
This is horrible.

Email just sent to the Governor. Also will phone ASAP.

hayesman76
09-12-2009, 5:01 AM
UNOFFICIAL BALLOT
MEASURE: AB 962
AUTHOR: De Leon
TOPIC: Ammunition.
DATE: 09/10/2009
LOCATION: SEN. FLOOR
MOTION: Assembly 3rd Reading AB962 De Leon By Cedillo
(AYES 21. NOES 18.) (PASS)


AYES
****

... Cedillo ...



State Senator Gill Cedillo who, as seen above, voted YES to curtail the 1st Amendment rights of U.S. citizens who live in California, is known as "One Bill Gill" due to his unrelenting push for a law to issue official California drivers licenses to illegal aliens.

HeyZeus
09-12-2009, 6:26 AM
I emailed the govinator. This really pisses me off.

Nevermore
09-12-2009, 6:35 AM
We are screwed if this bill becomes law. This will increase the time and expense of obtaining ammunition immensely. We have all got to put in an extra effort to defeat this.

If the governor does not veto, when exactly would this bill become law?

State bills passed become law on January 1st of the following year, unless otherwise specified on the bill. Mid-year bills usually become law on July 1st of that year, otherwise (such as last year's "no cell phones while driving" law).

I'm not sure about Federal laws. They seem to start whenever the hell it strikes the fancy of Congress.

piglith
09-12-2009, 7:02 AM
We should collect money for a TV ad. Only way to get the info to the rest of the state. Most people are not even aware of this.

Wallabing
09-12-2009, 7:09 AM
Arnold slaps the faces of veterans, and now he's going to make another stepping stone to take away our rights.

sd_shooter
09-12-2009, 7:30 AM
I think we need a coordinated effort to send snail mail to the governor. Email is just too easy to ignore. I wrote a letter last week, but if everyone sends one letter a day (or even one letter a week) we would flood his office!

lockandloadllc
09-12-2009, 7:30 AM
Why don't we file a lawsuit saying that this is unconstitutional?

kdm
09-12-2009, 7:30 AM
E-mail sent to Arnie. We really need to flood his inbox with "No on AB962" headings.

I like sd shooter's suggestion...

GrizzlyGuy
09-12-2009, 7:33 AM
Don't forget to spread the word to your friends who may not be aware of this. For example, I have many conservative friends who are not gun owners, but support 2A nevertheless. Arnold needs to hear from those folks too.

bradph
09-12-2009, 7:39 AM
E-mail sent, will fax on Monday.

If this passes, I’ve lost any remaining faith in California legislators. I hope someone files a big ole law suit. Fingerprints, mail order... give me a break. Like mr. gangster will be side tracked in the slightest at such trivialities.

1911_Mitch
09-12-2009, 7:57 AM
e-mail sent.

Cr6IC
09-12-2009, 7:59 AM
Email sent:
Governor Schwarzenegger,
I would most respectfully urge you to veto bill AB962 that just passed the assembly yesterday and is now on your desk. I believe that with the current economic issues facing this state, the government has bigger fish to fry at the moment. The new crimes and requirements that this bill creates should it pass into law create unneccessary fiscal challenges that California will be hard-pressed to meet in these current times. I am also very concerned about the impact this bill would have on law-abiding gun owners' opportunities and ability to purchase ammunition by mail order or on the internet, especially if the ammunition in question is not available in local stores. This bill will have a far greater impact on law-abiding gun owners than criminals, who by definition, ignore the law anyway.
Please do not sign AB962 into law.
Sincerely,

Cr6IC

HowardW56
09-12-2009, 8:00 AM
They are going to get us one way or another it would appear. Pathetic! :no:

AND WE DIDN'T EVEN GET KISSED.....

Casey
09-12-2009, 8:01 AM
Email is easy to send and even easier for them to ignore. Take time and send at least one snail mail... a day. Next best is fax. You need to give them a document that they can pile up.

yellowfin
09-12-2009, 8:31 AM
As long as people/"representatives" are willing to give up essential rights and liberties for supposed "security", we are all going to be in a lot of trouble. : Here's the problem: they're not giving up anything. Those who vote for anti gun stuff aren't giving up anything THEY enjoy, they're sacrificing YOUR rights and liberties for THEIR gain of political power. That's why it continues.

gef
09-12-2009, 8:38 AM
I've emailed him twice now once before AB962 and SB 585 passed and now again after they passed. His first reply was that he took no position on a bill till it got to his desk, well it's there now.

Shotgun Man
09-12-2009, 8:53 AM
I've emailed him twice now once before AB962 and SB 585 passed and now again after they passed. His first reply was that he took no position on a bill till it got to his desk, well it's there now.

Yeah, I remember that email-- so foolish. He's the governor and he takes no stand on controversial pending legislation? I doubt that DeLeon et al would have passed this bill if they thought it would be vetoed.

DeLeon must have sycophants within the gov's admin giving him the green light.

Let's see if we get a response now.

cousinkix1953
09-12-2009, 8:55 AM
Why don't we file a lawsuit saying that this is unconstitutional?
Everybody has old firearms, or surplus C&Rs, which are not chambered in the most popular US calibers. You'll have problems getting what you need in most of the stores. Your 2nd Amendment rights are violated; when cannot buy ammo for the guns that you legally own any more. This is the time to file a class action lawsuit on behalf of thousands of plaintiffs...

dirtnap
09-12-2009, 9:00 AM
Is there NO other way to stop this thing, other than a veto? If we filled suit, doesnt that put a hold on things?


* I have no idea what I'm talking about, but it seems everytime a law/bill/etc I like is about to get passed somebody files a lawsuit and I never hear about it again....

cousinkix1953
09-12-2009, 9:06 AM
Please don't let such thinking muddle your choice if Jerry Brown is running for governor. He appears to be a friend of the Second Amendment.

Now maybe there is going to be some dream (republican) candidate that comes along that trumps him, but I wouldn't count on it.
Like Sarah Brady's old buddy former anti-gun congressman Tom Campbell. Would you prefer ("no you can't even sell empty brass or certain gun parts") on Meg Whitman's EBAY. You can't pay for your ammo with her PayPal accounts either...

.454
09-12-2009, 9:07 AM
Why so upset guys?
To quote a few fellow Calgunners "when casting our votes there are more important issues than the 2nd Amendment" .
And after all, "firearms are just a hobby" ;)

cousinkix1953
09-12-2009, 9:17 AM
State Senator Gill Cedillo who, as seen above, voted YES to curtail the 1st Amendment rights of U.S. citizens who live in California, is known as "One Bill Gill" due to his unrelenting push for a law to issue official California drivers licenses to illegal aliens.

So they can register to vote for corrupt anti-gun politicians, and make illegal firearms purchases in a federally licensed store. The NRA didn't say a frigging word about this crackpot license scheme. They don't even complain about anti-gun police chiefs; who don't turn illegals over to ICE, when they are caught with illegal guns. No green card = no guns in the USA.

Thanks for nothing; cowards. It's hard to get angry at somebody who won't join the NRA any more...

cousinkix1953
09-12-2009, 9:21 AM
I've emailed him twice now once before AB962 and SB 585 passed and now again after they passed. His first reply was that he took no position on a bill till it got to his desk, well it's there now.
Did you tell him to ban those "canned music" raves and kick those damned drug dealers out of the Cow Palace instead? There is your frigging crime problem...

missiondude
09-12-2009, 9:29 AM
So they can register to vote for corrupt anti-gun politicians, and make illegal firearms purchases in a federally licensed store. The NRA didn't say a frigging word about this crackpot license scheme. They don't even complain about anti-gun police chiefs; who don't turn illegals over to ICE, when they are caught with illegal guns. No green card = no guns in the USA.

Thanks for nothing; cowards. It's hard to get angry at somebody who won't join the NRA any more...

Not to bag on the NRA, as I am a life member, but... I got a call from a phone bank last night, you know the ones. Me hello, phone silence, then background noise. Finally hello, is this mr $%^%$#@, Me, yes. Guy on line, are you aware that the UN is trying to take your guns away? Me, I am more worried about the asshats in this state. Him, could you please donate $75 to stop the UN from taking your guns. Me, I just became a fully paid Life member earlier this year, and did another donation 1 month ago. Him 10 minutes of pestering me until I finally told him loudly that you are obviously having trouble hearing me, I cant afford to give any more this year, you are really pissing me off, GOODBYE.

Ironic that I get a call about the UN taking away my gun rights, when our State is doing a much better job... Watch out for the blue helecopters...

user_name
09-12-2009, 9:39 AM
e-mail sent.

yellowfin
09-12-2009, 9:41 AM
It's interesting that they would vote on and pass this bill on 9/11. Sends a message, doesn't it? Attacks on freedom come in all shapes and sizes.

egslaw
09-12-2009, 9:50 AM
If I may make a suggestion,

Please draft your letters keeping your audience in mind, that being the Republican Govenor. Start off the letters with the fiscal burdens this (horrible) bill will place on small business owners. Let him know that this bill will require small businessowners, who are already struggling, to spend large sums of money on:
1) Purchasing new computer systems to track the sales and maintain records for FIVE years.
2) Hiring and training new staff as now employees will have to hand ammo to customers where they used to be able to take it themselves.
3) Purchasing new lockable racks to secure the ammunition.

Harp on the fact that most small businesses are already struggling and implementing expensive restrictions will only burden them further and possibly require them to close their doors which will drag our California economy further into the recession.

Bring up the additional costs the State will have to incur for policing and reviewing these records and enforcing compliance. Remind him that these additional costs will further drive our budget deeper into a deficit.

This is a Republican, gun loving, govenor (deep down). You know he wants to veto this. He just needs a reason to give the liberal side of the aisle so he can save face as to WHY he vetoed it. If we harp on the fact that this is bad for the economy and bad for small business, it just may be the ammo (pun intended) he needs to veto the bill.

This is just a suggestion. Feel free to add all the other reasons (and there are many) this bill is garbage.

(Nothing in this posting should be interpretted as legal advice. I am not giving you legal advice.)

1911_Mitch
09-12-2009, 9:51 AM
It's interesting that they would vote on and pass this bill on 9/11. Sends a message, doesn't it? Attacks on freedom come in all shapes and sizes.



Big +1

mmbasser
09-12-2009, 9:55 AM
I submitted my e-mail to gov under the heading of "budget", not "gun control"

Shotgun Man
09-12-2009, 10:05 AM
If I may make a suggestion,

Please draft your letters keeping your audience in mind, that being the Republican Govenor. Start off the letters with the fiscal burdens this (horrible) bill will place on small business owners. Let him know that this bill will require small businessowners, who are already struggling, to spend large sums of money on:
1) Purchasing new computer systems to track the sales and maintain records for FIVE years.
2) Hiring and training new staff as now employees will have to hand ammo to customers where they used to be able to take it themselves.
3) Purchasing new lockable racks to secure the ammunition.

Harp on the fact that most small businesses are already struggling and implementing expensive restrictions will only burden them further and possibly require them to close their doors which will drag our California economy further into the recession.

Bring up the additional costs the State will have to incur for policing and reviewing these records and enforcing compliance. Remind him that these additional costs will further drive our budget deeper into a deficit.

This is a Republican, gun loving, govenor (deep down). You know he wants to veto this. He just needs a reason to give the liberal side of the aisle so he can save face as to WHY he vetoed it. If we harp on the fact that this is bad for the economy and bad for small business, it just may be the ammo (pun intended) he needs to veto the bill.

This is just a suggestion. Feel free to add all the other reasons (and there are many) this bill is garbage.

(Nothing in this posting should be interpretted as legal advice. I am not giving you legal advice.)

Don't forget the sales tax argument:

This bill will also result in decreased sales tax revenue to the
degree that ammunition sales decrease as a result of additional,
time-consuming procedures required for consumers. Neighboring
states do not have the extensive restrictions on ammunition
purchases proposed by this bill. Gun rights groups and members
are opposed to this bill, and are resistant to giving the state
additional personal information about their gun-related
purchases. It is very likely that they will purchase ammunition
out of state, especially considering its virtually unlimited
storage life. Ammunition purchasers would not have to make a
special trip often to a neighboring state, but could, whenever
s/he happened to be traveling through another state, buy a
substantial amount of ammunition and retain it for future use.
If even 10% of purchases were shifted to other states, the sales
tax loss to the state of California would be approximately
$1,000,000.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0951-1000/ab_962_cfa_20090827_131342_sen_comm.html



$1 million in lost sales tax revenue. That figure is likely deflated.

egslaw
09-12-2009, 10:07 AM
Don't forget the sales tax argument:



$1 million in lost sales tax revenue. That figure is likely deflated.

Good CALL!!! More expenses and less income means BAD BILL!

.454
09-12-2009, 10:18 AM
Elections have consequences my friends.To paraphrase some of my left leaning, non-single issue Democrat voting friends from Calguns:
"Guns Ammo is just a hobby for me"

I mean, for me making it is a hobby.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6853/pict01635245279.jpg

Have fun driving out of state to get yours. And don't forget to pat yourself on the back and thank your Democrat representatives.

razorx
09-12-2009, 10:22 AM
If I may make a suggestion,

Please draft your letters keeping your audience in mind, that being the Republican Govenor. Start off the letters with the fiscal burdens this (horrible) bill will place on small business owners. Let him know that this bill will require small businessowners, who are already struggling, to spend large sums of money on:
1) Purchasing new computer systems to track the sales and maintain records for FIVE years.
2) Hiring and training new staff as now employees will have to hand ammo to customers where they used to be able to take it themselves.
3) Purchasing new lockable racks to secure the ammunition.

Harp on the fact that most small businesses are already struggling and implementing expensive restrictions will only burden them further and possibly require them to close their doors which will drag our California economy further into the recession.

Bring up the additional costs the State will have to incur for policing and reviewing these records and enforcing compliance. Remind him that these additional costs will further drive our budget deeper into a deficit.

This is a Republican, gun loving, govenor (deep down). You know he wants to veto this. He just needs a reason to give the liberal side of the aisle so he can save face as to WHY he vetoed it. If we harp on the fact that this is bad for the economy and bad for small business, it just may be the ammo (pun intended) he needs to veto the bill.

This is just a suggestion. Feel free to add all the other reasons (and there are many) this bill is garbage.

(Nothing in this posting should be interpretted as legal advice. I am not giving you legal advice.)

+1

All the "good" reasons about 2A, rights, unfair, etc., are irrelevant.

The "right people" need to take a break from the other 2A activities and draft a response that provides a 3-5 sentence statement for Arnold to give when asked by the media why he vetoed the bill.

Especially useful would be to draft another 3-5 sentence statement for Arnold on signing the bill. Just for contrast.

Budget and hardship for small business, increased enforcement and administrative cost, etc., are the arguments to make in this current political environment. Anything else is BS.

xxG3xx
09-12-2009, 10:31 AM
emailed

Smokey510
09-12-2009, 10:34 AM
Just sent him an email. I got an email from Feinstein the other day about this. She says "whats good for Alaska or Wyoming isn't necessarily whats good for California". We need a part time legislature.

johnny_22
09-12-2009, 10:51 AM
1. Email sent this morning

2. Fax sent just now.( +1 916-558-3160)

3. Letter is done and stamped. Need to mail.

4. Will call and leave message to veto AB962.

mikeinrancho
09-12-2009, 11:03 AM
This bill and it's passage into law is further proof that any attempt in California to maintain even a minimal amount of gun rights - let alone retrieve any those rights that have already been taken away - is a complete waste of time, money and energy. Sorry to all those organizations trying to stem or reverse any tides... you're pissing into the wind. For every attempt you make, and maybe even win, there will be 5 opposite attempts waiting in the wings. You will win one, they will win two.

Take off your blinders and honestly look around... your representatives do not care about your rights and as those representatives continue to fund programs that keep them in office (the people than benefit from government programs WILL keep them in office regardless of their own 2a stance) our minority (voice) will continue to shrink.

I'm still waiting for someone here to blame this bill on the UOC group.

Dr Rockso
09-12-2009, 11:09 AM
Not to bag on the NRA, as I am a life member, but... I got a call from a phone bank last night, you know the ones. Me hello, phone silence, then background noise. Finally hello, is this mr $%^%$#@, Me, yes. Guy on line, are you aware that the UN is trying to take your guns away? Me, I am more worried about the asshats in this state. Him, could you please donate $75 to stop the UN from taking your guns. Me, I just became a fully paid Life member earlier this year, and did another donation 1 month ago. Him 10 minutes of pestering me until I finally told him loudly that you are obviously having trouble hearing me, I cant afford to give any more this year, you are really pissing me off, GOODBYE.

Ironic that I get a call about the UN taking away my gun rights, when our State is doing a much better job... Watch out for the blue helecopters...

Those calls have been discussed here before and it appears that it might not actually be the NRA making them. The NRA hasn't been on a UN kick in quite a while.

Scratch705
09-12-2009, 11:12 AM
does this bill restrict receiving ammo from out of state in forms of a gift?

like... if my sister decided to send me a few thousand rounds of various calibers i shoot as a b-day present or xmas gift? would i still have to goto a FFL to pick them up or can i receive them at my house?

Shotgun Man
09-12-2009, 11:15 AM
This bill and it's passage into law is further proof that any attempt in California to maintain even a minimal amount of gun rights - let alone retrieve any those rights that have already been taken away - is a complete waste of time, money and energy. Sorry to all those organizations trying to stem or reverse any tides... you're pissing into the wind. For every attempt you make, and maybe even win, there will be 5 opposite attempts waiting in the wings. You will win one, they will win two.

Take off your blinders and honestly look around... your representatives do not care about your rights and as those representatives continue to fund programs that keep them in office (the people than benefit from government programs WILL keep them in office regardless of their own 2a stance) our minority (voice) will continue to shrink.

I'm still waiting for someone here to blame this bill on the UOC group.

What's going on is the antis are on a gun-grabbing frenzy, similar to the looters in the Rodney King Riots. They know the law is going to come eventually, but it is not here now. Might as well grab this tv set (your 2A rights).

hamster
09-12-2009, 11:15 AM
emails sent!
i'm crossing my fingers. and stocking up on ammo.

Ishoot
09-12-2009, 11:19 AM
Let us not remember the fact that all the people who voted for a REPUBLICAN Governor could also be blamed equally for the erosion of our 2A rights if he signs yet another bill aimed at stealing our rights away. At this point it's in his, a Republican's, hands.

I don't think it's a democrat or republican thing, i think we have some dumb-*** politicians in office "representing" us at the cost of our rights. I've long know Republicans to be the offending party, now democrats have joined the list of people who ,in my opinion, don't give a crap about people like me.

I ain't a Democrat or Republican. I see them both equally as one of the problems with CA, let alone America.

+1 here...both parties are only for one thing..to get re-elected. This state just doesn't make sense anymore. Lesser of two evils doesn't make it good in my book. No answers here though...just rants. :o Emails and phone calls to the "Terminator" on the way.

Ksmash01
09-12-2009, 11:32 AM
+1 here...both parties are only for one thing..to get re-elected. This state just doesn't make sense anymore. Lesser of two evils doesn't make it good in my book. No answers here though...just rants. :o Emails and phone calls to the "Terminator" on the way.

I admit, I don't have the answers. I sent my faxes and e-mails. I am a part of the solution.

Rem222
09-12-2009, 11:38 AM
E-mail just sent, a letter and phone call to follow on Monday.

mikehaas
09-12-2009, 11:44 AM
So voting for a nutjob Lib WHO Suddenly embraced 2A ??
Ok, for the zillionth time... do you know of any anti-gun legislation he sponsored? Signed even? Because ever since he ran for AG, I've been trying to find some. Should be easy, right, He was governor, mayor?

And I asked personal friends (very knowledgable personal friends), calgunners, even the Alameda NRA Members' Council leaders (he was their mayor, right?)

Nada. Can't find any bad stuff. And when mayor of Oakland, instead of gun control the city implemented NRA's "Project Exile" tough-on-crime program. The NRA volunteers even said he always gave their recruitment booth a "thumbs up" at public events.

Everyone must come to their own decisions about who's a 'nutjob' and who isn't (sic) but I can't support the idea that Jerry Brown 'Suddenly embraced 2A'. I think it reduces your credibility to jump to such conclusions.

I also don't support this blanket "hate Democrats" idea. We have loyal pro-gun Democrats that put their necks and careers on the line to vote with us and even sponsor legislation. We stopped a lot of bad bills this year and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING goes our way in Sacramento without a significant amount of Democrat support (they have a strong majority, remember?)

NRA does a great job in a majority of cases in getting that support (why so little anti-gun stuff passes anymore) and why we occasionally win a big one (most recently, the defeat of the expansion of the lead ban and the "Katrina" Gun-Rights Protection Law.)

Waging war on all Democrats just undercuts their good work and betrays our Democrat friends - thereby causing us to have FEWER Democrat friends and why not? Gun-owners aren't loyal. You will have proven that. Insread, let's do what we ALWAYS need to do to win - continue to fight together. We need every Democrat on board we can get.

And I really like the idea of electing more pro-gunners in the Democrat party. Let's have more Rod Wrights and Nicole Parra's! Because frankly, I don't care a WHIT about party. I care about how they feel about GUN-RIGHTS. I don't tow ANY PARTY'S line. If we're united, lawmakers of BOTH parties - ALL parties - will need to worry about US.

Scratch705
09-12-2009, 11:48 AM
Would still like a answer to this? Read the revised bill but it doesn't make a mention of ammo as gifts in terms of shipping to personal home?

does this bill restrict receiving ammo from out of state in forms of a gift?

like... if my sister decided to send me a few thousand rounds of various calibers i shoot as a b-day present or xmas gift? would i still have to goto a FFL to pick them up or can i receive them at my house?

redline
09-12-2009, 11:57 AM
Email sent to Arnie.

wkd4496
09-12-2009, 11:59 AM
hmm. since i'm in az right now might as well stock up.

drafting email/snail mail now.

Shotgun Man
09-12-2009, 12:01 PM
Ok, for the zillionth time... do you know of any anti-gun legislation he sponsored? Signed even? Because ever since he ran for AG, I've been trying to find some. Should be easy, right, He was governor, mayor?

And I asked personal friends (very knowledgable personal friends), calgunners, even the Alameda NRA Members' Council leaders (he was their mayor, right?)

Nada. Can't find any bad stuff. And when mayor of Oakland, instead of gun control the city implemented NRA's "Project Exile" tough-on-crime program. The NRA volunteers even said he always gave their recruitment booth a "thumbs up" at public events.

Everyone must come to their own decisions about who's a 'nutjob' and who isn't (sic) but I can't support the idea that Jerry Brown 'Suddenly embraced 2A'. I think it reduces your credibility to jump to such conclusions.

I also don't support this blanket "hate Democrats" idea. We have loyal pro-gun Democrats that put their necks and careers on the line to vote with us and even sponsor legislation. We stopped a lot of bad bills this year and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING goes our way in Sacramento without a significant amount of Democrat support (they have a strong majority, remember?)

NRA does a great job in a majority of cases in getting that support (why so little anti-gun stuff passes anymore) and why we occasionally win a big one (most recently, the defeat of the expansion of the lead ban and the "Katrina" Gun-Rights Protection Law.)

Waging war on all Democrats just undercuts their good work and betrays our Democrat friends - thereby causing us to have FEWER Democrat friends and why not? Gun-owners aren't loyal. You will have proven that. Insread, let's do what we ALWAYS need to do to win - continue to fight together. We need every Democrat on board we can get.

And I really like the idea of electing more pro-gunners in the Democrat party. Let's have more Rod Wrights and Nicole Parra's! Because frankly, I don't care a WHIT about party. I care about how they feel about GUN-RIGHTS. I don't tow ANY PARTY'S line. If we're united, lawmakers of BOTH parties - ALL parties - will need to worry about US.

Good post. It cannot be the zillionth time however because it was refreshing to me.

mikehaas
09-12-2009, 12:04 PM
Ooops, sorry I allowed myself to be side-tracked.

Folks, we can discuss Jerry Brown and such things another time.

Please... PLEASE... stay focused on what we need to do to defeat AB962...
http://calnra.com/legs.shtml?year=2009&summary=ab962

...and the Cow Palace Gun Show Ban...
http://calnra.com/legs.shtml?year=2009&summary=ab585

...please? (I don't beg very often or for many things.)

GearHead
09-12-2009, 12:04 PM
I haven't been able to find a solid answer via searching...does this bill subject all types of ammo to these regulations? Or only handgun ammo? Cuz the specific language I have read seems only to apply to ammunition for handguns.

Scratch705
09-12-2009, 12:07 PM
I haven't been able to find a solid answer via searching...does this bill subject all types of ammo to these regulations? Or only handgun ammo? Cuz the specific language I have read seems only to apply to ammunition for handguns.

it is for handgun ammo, but they never specified calibers.

so anything that can be fired from a handgun/pistol would fall under this i'm assuming? which means it can also cover those AR pistols that people build, which means .223 can be a part of the restrictions.

GW
09-12-2009, 12:14 PM
Well, Mike You tried
Focus here people
Worry about Jerry Brown later or in a different thread. Worry about the types of ammo covered later
THIS CAN STILL BE STOPPED!

Right now you need to contact the Governor's office and ask him to veto these bills.

AB962 and SB 585 in case you have forgotten

Then get your friends to do the same.

Rally Dave
09-12-2009, 12:19 PM
email sent

CJN8
09-12-2009, 12:34 PM
email sent...snail mail going out today...

Scout106
09-12-2009, 1:48 PM
email sent. Not taking calls until Monday.

Elsinore
09-12-2009, 2:25 PM
Email sent. Will call on Monday.

cj cake
09-12-2009, 2:33 PM
Elsinor, cool avitar. Great book too!

510shooter510
09-12-2009, 2:44 PM
Email sent.

hotwls13
09-12-2009, 2:49 PM
Sent my email. I'm also crossing my fingers. Here's a bit of hope.

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/capitolalertlatest/015790.html

lowracer
09-12-2009, 2:51 PM
This is sick and wrong. Is there anything we outta-staters can do to help?

cousinkix1953
09-12-2009, 2:53 PM
Not to bag on the NRA, as I am a life member, but... I got a call from a phone bank last night, you know the ones. Me hello, phone silence, then background noise. Finally hello, is this mr $%^%$#@, Me, yes. Guy on line, are you aware that the UN is trying to take your guns away? Me, I am more worried about the asshats in this state. Him, could you please donate $75 to stop the UN from taking your guns. Me, I just became a fully paid Life member earlier this year, and did another donation 1 month ago. Him 10 minutes of pestering me until I finally told him loudly that you are obviously having trouble hearing me, I cant afford to give any more this year, you are really pissing me off, GOODBYE.

Ironic that I get a call about the UN taking away my gun rights, when our State is doing a much better job... Watch out for the blue helecopters...
F--- the damned UN. They ain't gonna take nobody's guns away. More than one person has said that the NRA national HQ has written off the Peoples Republik of Kommiefornia as a lost cause, yet they still wanna shake us down for $$$. Did you notice how they got the credit for Nordyke; when it was the SAF and CAL-GUNS who did the hard work?

cousinkix1953
09-12-2009, 3:02 PM
Ok, for the zillionth time... do you know of any anti-gun legislation he sponsored? Signed even? Because ever since he ran for AG, I've been trying to find some. Should be easy, right, He was governor, mayor?

And I asked personal friends (very knowledgable personal friends), calgunners, even the Alameda NRA Members' Council leaders (he was their mayor, right?)

Nada. Can't find any bad stuff. And when mayor of Oakland, instead of gun control the city implemented NRA's "Project Exile" tough-on-crime program. The NRA volunteers even said he always gave their recruitment booth a "thumbs up" at public events.

Everyone must come to their own decisions about who's a 'nutjob' and who isn't (sic) but I can't support the idea that Jerry Brown 'Suddenly embraced 2A'. I think it reduces your credibility to jump to such conclusions.

I also don't support this blanket "hate Democrats" idea. We have loyal pro-gun Democrats that put their necks and careers on the line to vote with us and even sponsor legislation. We stopped a lot of bad bills this year and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING goes our way in Sacramento without a significant amount of Democrat support (they have a strong majority, remember?)

NRA does a great job in a majority of cases in getting that support (why so little anti-gun stuff passes anymore) and why we occasionally win a big one (most recently, the defeat of the expansion of the lead ban and the "Katrina" Gun-Rights Protection Law.)

Waging war on all Democrats just undercuts their good work and betrays our Democrat friends - thereby causing us to have FEWER Democrat friends and why not? Gun-owners aren't loyal. You will have proven that. Insread, let's do what we ALWAYS need to do to win - continue to fight together. We need every Democrat on board we can get.

And I really like the idea of electing more pro-gunners in the Democrat party. Let's have more Rod Wrights and Nicole Parra's! Because frankly, I don't care a WHIT about party. I care about how they feel about GUN-RIGHTS. I don't tow ANY PARTY'S line. If we're united, lawmakers of BOTH parties - ALL parties - will need to worry about US.
Going back to the mid-70s it was gov. Jerry Brown who insisted that a bill with a 5 day waiting period on firearms purchases, must also have mandatory sentences for gun crimes! The ACLU hated the idea that you'd get double time for using a gun instead of any other weapon. Remember those TV commercials filmed at San Quentin with the slamming cell door? You'll get none of this from the anti-gun leaders of today's Democratic party. They are scared sh--less of punishing the criminals...

cousinkix1953
09-12-2009, 3:05 PM
I haven't been able to find a solid answer via searching...does this bill subject all types of ammo to these regulations? Or only handgun ammo? Cuz the specific language I have read seems only to apply to ammunition for handguns.
It might as well be all ammo! We live a world, where we can buy TC contenders chambered for large rifle calibers like the /30/06 and even .45/70...

tuolumnejim
09-12-2009, 3:11 PM
Guess I'm glad we bought the house in Nevada. :D

tm51
09-12-2009, 3:29 PM
Email sent.

POLICESTATE
09-12-2009, 3:39 PM
I'm thinking maybe quarterly group-chartered buses to Reno/LV for ammo runs, casino hopping and range hopping.

Sobriquet
09-12-2009, 3:43 PM
Emailed, will send a paper letter, and call on Monday.

wikidklown
09-12-2009, 3:54 PM
Email sent!

coyotekiller56
09-12-2009, 4:05 PM
I also got an alert from Jerry Springer and Western Hunter that this was back at the assembly and needed to call, wtf?
I called the Guv's offic on Friday but only got busy signal, I hope it's not "off the hook". I did email him as well and will do so every day until....
We need to keep slamming him up side da head!!!
What has our State come to?

CaliforniaLiberal
09-12-2009, 4:21 PM
Take a close look guys, this bill has been seriously amended in the Senate since we last saw it. True, it's still pointless and useless and adds red tape to ammo purchases. But the special license to sell ammo as well as the ammo sale records maintained by the State DOJ are all gone. Looks like that will eliminate the costs to the State. The date for taking effect has been moved back 7 months to Feb 1, 2011.

Internet Sales are still outlawed - face to face only.

Retailers are required to take your Name, Address, Drivers License Number, Date of Birth and Tumbprint, to keep the records at the place of business for 5 years and make them available to LEOs.

There is no 50 round limit, any "person engaged in retail sale of handgun ammo" is required to take your information. (Does this include classified ad sales by individuals?) As far as I can tell you can give away or transfer whatever you want.

If you want to try out this ammo buying experience, just buy ammo inside Sacramento City Limits. AB 962 is very similar to the City Ordinance passed a couple of years ago. The River City Gun Exchange is a good place. They keep ammo out on their counter where you can look at it. Unless AB 962 gets signed into law. Aren't there other CA cities with a similar ordinance?

Anyone want to bet all California WalMarts will stop selling ammo if this passes?

And no sales to gang members. Boy, that's really going to be a set back for all the gangs.

Most important of all is the new name.

It was the "PROTECTION Act of 2009: Providing Regulation and Oversight
to End Community Terrorism in Our Neighborhoods." The improved title is "Anti-Gang Neighborhood Protection Act of 2009".

You can tell they've been working really hard to perfect this bill.


Here's the text of the latest amended version as of 9-4-09:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0951-1000/ab_962_bill_20090904_amended_sen_v96.pdf

Here's the page to do a search and find more detailed info on how it's changed since being introduced and who has voted for it:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/bilinfo.html


CaliforniaLiberal

CaliforniaLiberal
09-12-2009, 4:26 PM
I also got an alert from Jerry Springer and Western Hunter that this was back at the assembly and needed to call, wtf?
I called the Guv's offic on Friday but only got busy signal, I hope it's not "off the hook". I did email him as well and will do so every day until....
We need to keep slamming him up side da head!!!
What has our State come to?

My understanding is that since this was amended by the Senate after it was last approved by the Assembly it has to be voted on again by the Assembly to approve the changes. Or less likely, to go to a conference committee where they make more changes and compromises and then back to both Houses to be approved again.

Do I have that right?

CL

ldsnet
09-12-2009, 4:34 PM
Fax sent:

Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
State Capitol Building
Sacramento, CA 95814

Please Veto AB962

Governor,

Please Veto AB962. This legislation will do nothing to prevent any kind of crime, reduce violence or any other deter any criminal action. All it does is hurt law abiding citizens and drive up the cost of ammunition.

This is just another ploy to take away 2nd amendment rights to keep and bear arms. Without a supply of ammunition, a firearm is a complicated paperweight.

PLESE VETO AB962

Very Respectfully,

LAWABIDINGCITIZEN
09-12-2009, 4:46 PM
FAXed and Emailed Arnold

Maybe this has been posted a dozen times already, but the governator has a NEW Fax number:


Fax: 916-558-3160 ( new number )

coyotekiller56
09-12-2009, 5:03 PM
CL may be right.
The state site says it's back to the assembly.
We need to attack in the right place.
Does anybody have more info?

scroman
09-12-2009, 5:06 PM
Mail (e and snail) sent to Arnie...will continue to send daily until he takes action.

s30
09-12-2009, 5:06 PM
interesting. either way, email was sent.

dieselcarpenter
09-12-2009, 5:27 PM
E-mail sent,

I am no defeatest, but I feel this will make it past his desk with gubanitorial ink upon it. What will us we here and others do then? add out of state ammo running to list along with bullet buttons, or stupid non pistol grip handles for AR's? When is enough, enough for us people?

California, we get what we deserve, for too long we have allowed this cancer to set in on our lives, and now here on the left coast it is so malignant we need to have something cut off or radiated to live.

I am only 27 years old, and today is the first day I have seen our side on the steps of our Nations Capitol saying enough is enough!! Why only now? I fear that its too late but I am hopefull it is not, we may be able to rverese this and others but only at our hands not the hands of the current crop.

What is our recourse to this if passed? Meg Whitman wont recend it, all the incumbents this sate will re-elect (my moneys on that bet for sure) wont recend it?

WHAT NOW? (assuming it gets signed)

Liberty1
09-12-2009, 5:37 PM
E-mailed, Will also phone and send snail mail!

Scratch705
09-12-2009, 6:10 PM
E-mail sent,

I am no defeatest, but I feel this will make it past his desk with gubanitorial ink upon it. What will us we here and others do then? add out of state ammo running to list along with bullet buttons, or stupid non pistol grip handles for AR's? When is enough, enough for us people?

What is our recourse to this if passed? Meg Whitman wont recend it, all the incumbents this sate will re-elect (my moneys on that bet for sure) wont recend it?

WHAT NOW? (assuming it gets signed)

for me, i'm going to have ammo sent to me as gifts from out of state family. the bill makes no mention of ammo sent as gifts from private citizens only ammo bought in a commercial sale that has to be sent to a FFL. :p

i'm sure we an organize a "gift" exchange system here on calguns. and of course maybe some small fee to those who do set up the gifting channels, since it will take time/effort to package so many ammo gifts for those sending it from out of state. :)

till44
09-12-2009, 6:17 PM
I was in the assembly when this was kicked back to commitee. It was a close vote, I believe it was 25-21. Those that oppossed it were pretty adamant iin their opposition, those in favor were mixed in how much they seemed to support it. Keep up the email and phone calls.

Jeff213
09-12-2009, 6:22 PM
Does this effect reloading in any way? Are they banning the shipment of primers, brass, bullets, or powder? I wouldn't be surprised if they did... I can just hear it now.. "Hand loads are a major threat to our children. Gang members are well known for loading their own ammunition."


this is bull$&^*....

Mike d'Ocla
09-12-2009, 6:34 PM
Email sent:
Governor Schwarzenegger,
I would most respectfully urge you to veto bill AB962 that just passed the assembly yesterday and is now on your desk. I believe that with the current economic issues facing this state, the government has bigger fish to fry at the moment. The new crimes and requirements that this bill creates should it pass into law create unneccessary fiscal challenges that California will be hard-pressed to meet in these current times. I am also very concerned about the impact this bill would have on law-abiding gun owners' opportunities and ability to purchase ammunition by mail order or on the internet, especially if the ammunition in question is not available in local stores. This bill will have a far greater impact on law-abiding gun owners than criminals, who by definition, ignore the law anyway.
Please do not sign AB962 into law.
Sincerely,
Cr6IC
I think this is a very useful model for a letter to be snail-mailed to big Arnold. It does seem to make a difference if you take the time to print out a letter on paper, stamp it and mail it. And it also makes a big difference if you write clearly and make a rational argument.

lewdogg21
09-12-2009, 6:37 PM
I've written and will call Monday.

Dragon
09-12-2009, 7:28 PM
If this bill does not get vetoed,and becomes law why do we become members and pay are dues to associations like the NRA, Lets look for a minute we have an "Assault weapon" ban we have "high capacity magazine"ban we have hand guns that have to be on a list before its ok to buy, and now we have AB962 bill ,and there are others,but i'm to depressed to put them down,and I'm sure there are more bans to come.

I think I am missing something,so can some one shed some light whats the point of Associations like the NRA if they are here to help the 2A why do these bills keep passing? All these laws affect Ca. law abiding people not the criminals.

Surefire
09-12-2009, 7:37 PM
Arnold showed his true colors by signing microstamping. He is anti-gun, and I expect he will sign this bill too.

With this said, we owe it to freedom to TRY to persuad him that this is a bad bill.

Dragon
09-12-2009, 7:42 PM
I believe that the purpose of the second is to protect every other right outlined in the constitution and bill of rights. The second comes first.

This is why they don't wont us to have firearms!

CalNRA
09-12-2009, 7:53 PM
Arnold showed his true colors by signing microstamping. He is anti-gun, and I expect he will sign this bill too.

With this said, we owe it to freedom to TRY to persuad him that this is a bad bill.

there is more to the micro stamp fiasco than just "Arnold no like guns".

Were you around when he vetoed the last mail order ban?

jccam
09-12-2009, 7:58 PM
Emailed, will send regular mail and call on Monday.

Please encourage your family members and neighbors to call too.

Springfield45
09-12-2009, 9:40 PM
Sent Email, and a prayer.

Intimid8tor
09-12-2009, 10:10 PM
email sent. Wife will send one as well.

bodger
09-12-2009, 10:15 PM
This is why they don't wont us to have firearms!


And why, if this crap continues, they will find out that we not only have them, we aren't going to give them up to appease some nelly politician who is trying to make a name for himself.

There is an end to this, one way or the other.

Reconsnake
09-12-2009, 10:31 PM
Email sent. If everyone of us sends an email, we might have a shot.

foxtrotuniformlima
09-12-2009, 10:40 PM
and CGN posters who vote Democrat will keep us here (Because they should not have to change their voting habits over a hobby when more important issues than 2A exist for them .)


State Sen Wright, a Democrat, voted no on this.

CalNRA
09-12-2009, 10:43 PM
State Sen Wright, a Democrat, voted no on this.

great

how many other dems did so?

510shooter510
09-12-2009, 10:46 PM
bump! send your emails guys! bump!

foxtrotuniformlima
09-12-2009, 10:51 PM
Don't know. Just looked him up cause he represents the area I work in.

My Sen for where I live is Huff. He voted no as well but he is a Republican.

I sent the Gov. an email. I took a little different approach. I said that if signed into law there would most certainly be challenges and that would cost us taxpayers $'s. I said that the benefit of the legislation is so small compared to the cost that it was just not worth it especially will all the budget issues we are facing. I also asked him to send a message to the legislator that they have more important things to do. That this type of law is not going to put anyone to work, improve our state in any way or create a tax base to support other programs.

I hope that he sees it my way . :D

nick
09-12-2009, 11:08 PM
If this bill does not get vetoed,and becomes law why do we become members and pay are dues to associations like the NRA, Lets look for a minute we have an "Assault weapon" ban we have "high capacity magazine"ban we have hand guns that have to be on a list before its ok to buy, and now we have AB962 bill ,and there are others,but i'm to depressed to put them down,and I'm sure there are more bans to come.

I think I am missing something,so can some one shed some light whats the point of Associations like the NRA if they are here to help the 2A why do these bills keep passing? All these laws affect Ca. law abiding people not the criminals.

Because without the likes of the NRA we wouldn't be having this discussion. Like they don't have it in Europe.

It's funny that so many people think the NRA is omnipotent, and at the same time go with the "what have you done for me recently" approach. Short attention span is how we got into this mess in the first place.

Anyway, if you need someone to blame, blame the people who voted for this bill, the people who voted those into the office, and the people who did NOTHING to support the people running against these politicians.

CalNRA
09-12-2009, 11:16 PM
Anyway, if you need someone to blame, blame the people who voted for this bill, the people who voted those into the office, and the people who did NOTHING to support the people running against these politicians.


that

I find it amusing that every time a bills passes in California, people automatically blame NRA.

But the people who pass it? No mentioning of them.

greasemonkey
09-13-2009, 12:12 AM
that

I find it amusing that every time a bills passes in California, people automatically blame NRA.

But the people who pass it? No mentioning of them.

I wonder how the number of people that complain about the "NRA doing nothing" compares with how many 'active' NRA members get emails, fliers and phone calls about legislation but won't contact their elected officials and won't talk to their friends about doing so.

Dragon
09-13-2009, 12:19 AM
that

I find it amusing that every time a bills passes in California, people automatically blame NRA.

But the people who pass it? No mentioning of them.

Not blaming NRA! So what are they doing about it?

obeygiant
09-13-2009, 12:38 AM
Not blaming NRA! So what are they doing about it?

I will assume for a moment that you are joking but in case you're not here (http://www.google.com/cse?cx=003012218780031495237%3Anuktdrl6sou&ie=UTF-8&q=mikehaas&sa=Search) is what they have done just on CGN.

steelrain82
09-13-2009, 12:39 AM
i was reading the gnd and i think this might be our saving grace if we emphasize this to the gov:

One very little known fact about this bill is that it will effectively override federal law.

In 1996 a federal law created the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) with the specific mission to promote firearms and marksmanship training for U.S. citizens with an emphasis on youth programs. This program provides firearms, most notably M1 Garands to affiliated CMP organizations. Additionally, it provides 22-caliber ammunition, air rifle pellets and BBs, which are suitable for youth firearms training and rifle marksmanship programs. AB962 would effectively end the transfer of ammuntion from CMP to various organizations that either take advantage or are eligible, such as Boy Scouts of America, Junior ROTC units, 4-H shooting sports clubs and many other California organizations.

and im hoping the gov wont "f" with anything that interferes with a federal program. wishful thinking

Dragon
09-13-2009, 12:56 AM
I think we need some public commercials to help inform the uninformed about their 2A rights .Alot of people just don't think about the 2A if there not gunnies like us.Its the 2A not the 3,4,5 ,6,and so on.

SickofSoCal
09-13-2009, 2:44 AM
So, the bill passed of course.

Did it pass in it's original form? What are the restrictions? Sorry, I just don't have to the time to read everything.

obeygiant
09-13-2009, 6:59 AM
So, the bill passed of course.

Did it pass in it's original form? What are the restrictions? Sorry, I just don't have to the time to read everything.

courtesy of Librarian:

I think I did a summary earlier. Let's see:

AB 962 (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=ab_962&sess=0910&house=B&author=de_leon), a reprise of last session's AB 2062 (http://leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=ab_2062&sess=0708&house=A&search_type=bill_update) and 2007's AB 362 (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=ab_362&sess=0708&house=B&author=de_leon), was introduced in February, 2009 by Democrat Kevin DeLeon (Official CA Assembly page (http://democrats.assembly.ca.gov/members/a45/) and Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_de_Le%C3%B3n)).

The bill would effectively ban on-line ammunition sales, by requiring face-to-face identification at the point of sale, and creates a system to license vendors of handgun ammunition. It requires those licensed vendors to record and maintain information on ammunition buyers.

A similar requirement was in Federal law, but was repealed in 1986 due to ineffectiveness.

The bill was opposed by Calgunners and others - "636 private individuals" in the Assembly Public Safety Committee, the Assembly Appropriations Committee, and the Assembly Floor through June, 2009, and the Senate Public Safety Committee - "several thousand private citizens (based on petitions on file with Committee)" - and the Senate Appropriations Committee through June, July and August.

The bill was opposed by the California Department of Finance in both May (http://www.dof.ca.gov/legislative_analyses/LIS_PDF/09/AB-962-20090504035415PM-AB00962.pdf) and July (http://www.dof.ca.gov/legislative_analyses/LIS_PDF/09/AB-962-20090723053324PM-AB00962.pdf), where they note

On August 27, 2009, the bill was removed from the Appropriations 'suspense file' and sent, with as yet unseen amendments, apparently related to financing the program proposed, to the Senate Floor. It will be taken up there very shortly, as the legislative calendar is coming to a close.

After literally thousands of individuals in many thousands of communications conveyed thoughtful opposition to this bill, and the Department of Finance told the legislature there was no money to do this, the committees and the Assembly, almost uniformly along party line votes, have moved this bill forward.

If the bill should pass the Senate, as now seems likely, it will be sent to the Governor for his signature.

At this point, thorough communicants may wish to contact each one's individual State Senator (see list (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/sen-addresses.html) (or enter your zip code in the form at this link (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/yourleg.html) to find one's Senator).

The Governor's contact page is here (http://gov.ca.gov/interact) for a kind of email; his other contact information is
Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
State Capitol Building
Sacramento, CA 95814
Phone: 916-445-2841
Fax: 916-558-3160

There. 2000 posts squished into 1.

Looks like the major changes were:


Enforcement was changed from July 1, 2010 February 1,2011
Removed the language dealing with what information they can keep and how it can be used
Changed the name of it from "PROTECTION Act of 2009: Providing Regulation and Oversight to End Community Terrorism in Our Neighborhoods." to the
"Anti-Gang Neighborhood Protection Act of 2009."
Removed 12061(b) the list of exemptions to this bill
Removed 12061 (B),(C) pertaining to employees of Ammunition Vendors
Removed 12061 (e) stating that the funds collected from licensing would be deposited in the Dealers' Record of Sale Special Account of the General Fund.
Removed 12062 the section describing how they would issue licenses to whom and what is required of them pertaining to denied licenses


Generally seem to want Sacramento-type info collected, and this whole thing applies only to ammunition vendors. There's no longer a separate license. FTF with ID is still required.

With no license there are no license fees, no new database, no new staff, very low new costs - and with the 7 month delay there's some time to figure out from where the small funding needed will come.

Fairly slick; cut out most of the obviously objectionable 'you are wasting money you do not have' stuff, and we're down to 'it will not do any good' -- which nobody seems to care about. :mad:





Originally Posted by JoeC View Post
How does this bill affect reloading supplies and purchases of reloading stuff online?

Bill says which says Therefore, reloading stuff appears to be excluded.


12060. As used in this article, the following terms apply:
(a) "Department" means the Department of Justice.
(b) "Handgun ammunition" means handgun ammunition as defined in
subdivision (a) of Section 12323, but excluding ammunition designed
and intended to be used in an "antique firearm" as defined in Section
921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code. Handgun ammunition
does not include blanks.
which says

CAL. PEN. CODE § 12323 : California Code - Section 12323

As used in this chapter, the following definitions shall apply:

(a)"Handgun ammunition" means ammunition principally for use in pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12001, notwithstanding that the ammunition may also be used in some rifles.
Therefore, reloading stuff appears to be excluded.

And it's only handgun ammunition affected by FTF sales -

SEC. 7. Section 12318 is added to the Penal Code, to read:
12318. (a) Commencing February 1, 2011 , the delivery or transfer of ownership of
handgun ammunition may only occur in a face-to-face transaction with
the deliverer or transferor being provided bona fide evidence of
identity from the purchaser or other transferee. A violation of this
section is a misdemeanor
if you can find ammo on line for your M1A or OLL, that's not affected by the provisions of the bill.

otteray
09-13-2009, 7:05 AM
I think we need some public commercials to help inform the uninformed about their 2A rights .Alot of people just don't think about the 2A if there not gunnies like us.Its the 2A not the 3,4,5 ,6,and so on.

You assume that the leftwing radical :p (red diaper doper babies) agenda driven networks (ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, etc.) will actually air these commercials?
Like, during one of their anti-gun "River of weapons going to Mexico" documentaries?

SickofSoCal
09-13-2009, 7:16 AM
We are not fighting the "left".............we are fighting COLLECTIVISM. Understand that.


It is the idea that leads to Socialism, Communism, Nazism, Fascism, Statism, etc.


Remember, there can be "right" collectivism as well. The right wing and the left wing belong to the body of the same bird.........it is simply a dialectic. Divide and conquer......we need to stop hacking at the branches and strike at the roots. Unite!




Individualism v Collectivism:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bys8CLAFhUs



Anyways, what are the chances of Arnie vetoing this bill? Slim to none?

Skullster
09-13-2009, 7:37 AM
Email sent

packnrat
09-13-2009, 9:00 AM
Sunday the 13 of September 2009.

So what is the verdict??? Did it get a sig or not??

And my email to the gov got bounced back.

.454
09-13-2009, 9:02 AM
Anyways, what are the chances of Arnie vetoing this bill? Slim to none?

Zero.
And good post, BTW.

Timberline
09-13-2009, 9:16 AM
Terrible news. I'm sending email and fax to the Governor's office today, and will call on Monday.

obeygiant
09-13-2009, 10:05 AM
Sunday the 13 of September 2009.

So what is the verdict??? Did it get a sig or not??

And my email to the gov got bounced back.

No word on the signature as the Governor has until October 11th to veto it. Direct email to him will get bounced back, if you would like to contact him you may do so at this page (http://gov.ca.gov/interact)

tempdrummer
09-13-2009, 10:07 AM
Funny, Im in the middle of watching an Arnold movie and just noticed this passed to him. I will send out my messages.

Its ironic that the fate of a big chunk of our hobby is now based on a man who made his career out of mindlessly shooting guns.

At least i'll now be able to sleep at night knowing gang members cant get handgun ammo anymore. :rolleyes:

obeygiant
09-13-2009, 10:07 AM
Does this effect reloading in any way? Are they banning the shipment of primers, brass, bullets, or powder? I wouldn't be surprised if they did... I can just hear it now.. "Hand loads are a major threat to our children. Gang members are well known for loading their own ammunition."


this is bull$&^*....

See this thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=221417) or read Librarian's Summary that I posted earlier. (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=3055584&postcount=145)

tempdrummer
09-13-2009, 10:10 AM
No word on the signature as the Governor has until October 11th to veto it. Direct email to him will get bounced back, if you would like to contact him you may do so at this page (http://gov.ca.gov/interact)

which subject should I pick from the drop down menu? consumer affairs?

obeygiant
09-13-2009, 10:17 AM
which subject should I pick from the drop down menu? consumer affairs?

Gun Control

tempdrummer
09-13-2009, 10:24 AM
Gun Control

ah thanks. Thats what I was looking for. For some reason my eyes just wouldnt focus on that damn menu. I didn't even see that.

Message has been sent. I'll try calling tomorrow.

Sam .223
09-13-2009, 10:26 AM
emailed and will call Monday.

Arteel
09-13-2009, 12:05 PM
Just for clarification, does AB962 ban online sales on pistol AND rifle ammo?

Librarian
09-13-2009, 12:08 PM
Just for clarification, does AB962 ban online sales on pistol AND rifle ammo?

handgun - even it it were supposed to be used for a rifle or often is; I believe it will cover .22LR.

Arteel
09-13-2009, 12:19 PM
Thanks Librarian.

leitung
09-13-2009, 1:07 PM
What are some of the exceptions if any?

762cavalier
09-13-2009, 1:18 PM
i was reading the gnd and i think this might be our saving grace if we emphasize this to the gov:

One very little known fact about this bill is that it will effectively override federal law.

In 1996 a federal law created the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) with the specific mission to promote firearms and marksmanship training for U.S. citizens with an emphasis on youth programs. This program provides firearms, most notably M1 Garands to affiliated CMP organizations. Additionally, it provides 22-caliber ammunition, air rifle pellets and BBs, which are suitable for youth firearms training and rifle marksmanship programs. AB962 would effectively end the transfer of ammuntion from CMP to various organizations that either take advantage or are eligible, such as Boy Scouts of America, Junior ROTC units, 4-H shooting sports clubs and many other California organizations.

and im hoping the gov wont "f" with anything that interferes with a federal program. wishful thinking

This is a really good point to add. This may actually effectively put an end to youth shooting programs or at least severely limit their ability to procure small bore ammo :mad:

LAWABIDINGCITIZEN
09-13-2009, 3:14 PM
We have a governor who is very upset at the Legislature right now:


From the Ventura County Star:
Early in the week, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, frustrated at the Legislature’s lack of action on the state’s most challenging issues, vetoed a motherhood-and-apple-pie bill that would have established a “Welcome Home Vietnam Veterans Day” in California.

In his veto message, he huffed that the bill did “nothing to address” the major issues of water, energy or prison reform and that he would be happy to take another look at it after those other issues were addressed.


If he's mad enough to veto a Veteran's Day bill, could he feel the same way about the stupid ammo bill????

Email, FAX, and call!!!!

Fasten your seat belts!

Brasspolisher
09-13-2009, 3:30 PM
Sent via http://gov.ca.gov/interact:


Please VETO AB962

Governor Schwarzenegger:

The bill AB962 that recently passed the legislature contains provisions that restrict lawful interstate commerce, create a significant unfunded mandate on local governments and law enforcement agencies, and seek to place additional (and ineffective) bureaucratic restrictions on a beleaguered (some might say endangered) segment of California businesses.

This legislation, cynically wrapped as 'crime prevention,' seeks to 'annoy to death' California industry and individuals who support Federally guaranteed Constitutional Rights, namely the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution. If allowed to become law it will reduce or or transfer to neighboring states economic activity sorely needed in and by the state of California. It will also more than likely burden the courts and the state through legal challenges due to its overly broad and imprecise composition. (As written, the bill could restrict sales of commonly-used construction materials, for example.) It will not reduce criminals' ability to unlawfully possess items from which they are already restricted through existing laws, and it will further needlessly burden agencies - already stretched to their limits - that are currently investigating and deterring crime through much more effective means.

Thank you for your attention, and I sincerely hope you choose wisely and veto this bill.

-------------------------


Please cut and paste with abandon.

KracknCorn
09-13-2009, 4:00 PM
We need to show the Governor a benefit for himself to veto this bill. Tell him how not vetoing this bill will effect the California Gun Industry and small business's. He is more concerned about fixing the economic stability of this state than anything else. Remember, restricting out of state sales seems like a good thing for California. It's like saying you can't buy things from China, it would increase sales of American made products.

LesGrossman41510
09-13-2009, 4:02 PM
hey i am sending emails to the Gun Control, however should we try sending under other subject lines.

JoeC
09-13-2009, 4:04 PM
First time contacting a politician about anything. I feel proud. What a time this currently is. A lot of sideline citizens are getting involved politically to stop this nasty wave of government run amok.

Anyhoo, here is what I said:

Please veto bill AB962.

It only serves to make it harder for lawful citizens to exercise their 2nd amendment rights and does nothing to stop criminal activity. A criminal, by definition, does not obey the law anyways so how will this deter them?

I'm concerned that during a time of fiscal emergency in CA that a bill like this will only add to the problem by adding additional government overhead, and reduce state income from lower ammunition sales/taxes and not only reduced ammunition sales but reduced sales in other areas that pertain to reloading and firearms in general.

It will also hurt already struggling small businesses who would have to accommodate and manage systems needed to fulfill the requirements of this bill.

Overall, mostly due to its poorly written nature, this bill reeks of nothing more than a blatant attempt at reducing gun use in CA, and has nothing to do with reducing crime.

Josh3239
09-13-2009, 4:05 PM
Looks like I had to write a letter and make plenty of copies because I plan on sending one per day.

5ohguy
09-13-2009, 4:16 PM
Emailed. Will call tomorrow Morning.

The legislature in California is a joke. Over the past 20 or so years, they've bankrupted our state and taken many of our god given liberties away.

As our states economy passes 10% unemployment they waste time and pass AB962 which will do nothing to slow gun violence. Judging from the history of gun control, it might actually make it worse! We really need to get these jokes that call themselves "representatives" out of office.

Get up and vote these fools out next election.

steelrain82
09-13-2009, 4:41 PM
i was reading the gnd and i think this might be our saving grace if we emphasize this to the gov:

One very little known fact about this bill is that it will effectively override federal law.

In 1996 a federal law created the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) with the specific mission to promote firearms and marksmanship training for U.S. citizens with an emphasis on youth programs. This program provides firearms, most notably M1 Garands to affiliated CMP organizations. Additionally, it provides 22-caliber ammunition, air rifle pellets and BBs, which are suitable for youth firearms training and rifle marksmanship programs. AB962 would effectively end the transfer of ammuntion from CMP to various organizations that either take advantage or are eligible, such as Boy Scouts of America, Junior ROTC units, 4-H shooting sports clubs and many other California organizations.

please don't forget to add this into your letters I really think this is a good point if it undermines a federal program I think there is a good chance it will get vetoed

woodsman
09-13-2009, 4:47 PM
emails sent - again.

bomb_on_bus
09-13-2009, 5:01 PM
We have a governor who is very upset at the Legislature right now:


From the Ventura County Star:



If he's mad enough to veto a Veteran's Day bill, could he feel the same way about the stupid ammo bill????

Email, FAX, and call!!!!

Fasten your seat belts!


Man I hope your right.

calixt0
09-13-2009, 5:03 PM
emailed and will call tomorrow morning. Lets light him up so he knows this is a big deal.

Roadrunner
09-13-2009, 5:11 PM
I wrote to Arnie and chose to not be diplomatic, politically correct, or otherwise. I was to the point and stressed that AB962 and SB585 are nothing less than DeLeon and Leno attempting to continue to make more laws that further the campaign of some California politicians to disarm law abiding citizens by wrapping AB962 and SB585 in the appearance of crime bills. I further stressed that these bills were also nothing more that an attempt to further their own political careers and feed the public propaganda, by claiming they are doing something about violent crime. Suggesting or outwardly proclaiming that this will effect lawful clubs and organizations is a given and to me there is no need to stress this issue. Stressing that this will have no effect on criminals is a given and I didn't stress that. My focus was on the continuing effort of rogue politicians that abuse their ability to make laws that restrict a law abiding American citizens fundamental right.

bodger
09-13-2009, 6:08 PM
Emailed. Will call tomorrow Morning.

The legislature in California is a joke. Over the past 20 or so years, they've bankrupted our state and taken many of our god given liberties away.

As our states economy passes 10% unemployment they waste time and pass AB962 which will do nothing to slow gun violence. Judging from the history of gun control, it might actually make it worse! We really need to get these jokes that call themselves "representatives" out of office.

Get up and vote these fools out next election.


I agree wholeheartedly. But there are so many anti-gun voters in this state. I think that's the problem. They'll believe anything is good if it limits the RTKB. And they'll keep voting these fools into office.

CA sent Pelosi and Feinstein to DC after all.

It's an enormous task to try to change the gun laws of this nanny-azz state.

RobDog
09-13-2009, 6:17 PM
This is a copy of what I sent to the Governator:

Honorable Governor Schwarzenegger,

I urge you to veto AB 962. This bill does nothing in the real effort to stop gun related crime. It only puts more restrictions on "Law Abiding Citizens" and further impedes our 2nd Amendment Right. This bill will also, without a doubt, cost the state more in litigation and court costs, as it is in direct violation of the Interstate Commerce Act. Gun Owners will, as a result, take there sport out of state. Consequences of this will be a loss of California sales tax and financial hardship for small business owners. In a time of financial concern, AB 962 does nothing to stop gun violence or stimulate the suffering economy. Again Governor, I urge you to veto this bill. Thank you for your valuable time.

Sincerely,

Toddzilla
09-13-2009, 7:33 PM
What about some publicity to show the governor all the sales tax they will be loosing with this bill.

Let's charter an "AMMO BUS to RENO" trip. We can get 40 Cal-Gunners to charter a bus, circle and pick-up people near the state capital, and then drop-off everyone back at the capital carrying cases of ammo from a quick trip to Reno gun stores.

I'm sure that we could get some TV and newspaper coverage on how silly this AB962 is.

AggregatVier
09-13-2009, 9:16 PM
AB962 > Please veto this legislation. Although its original language has been changed, it remains a deliberate, incremental stepping stone to severely restrict purchase and possession of ammunition. It thus effectively continues attempts to render our Second Amendment rights moot even though it does not go directly after restricting firearms ownership.

Instead of addressing vital water, energy, and prison issues, the legislature wastes valuable time and resources promoting an ideological agenda by falsely representing AB962 as a crime control bill. It will have no impact on reducing crime and is instead aimed at law abiding firearms owners.

Please do not let AB962 pass either by signing it or letting the 30 day period to actively veto it pass. Thank you!

steelrain82
09-13-2009, 9:56 PM
if a bunch of people did the whole bus trip and bought ammo you should show the receipts with all the taxes added up and then show the news or politicians and be this is just the total for 40 people now multiply this by x amount of gun owners that the state just lost these revenues on. now this is multiplyed even more because the business are losing money which means less tax revenue coming from those shops also

Josh3239
09-13-2009, 9:57 PM
My letter is still has some polishing to do, but half it is about how inneffective it will be and how so troubling it will be for law abiding people. The other half is inspired by the Ventura County Star about the Legislature is putting their resumes before fixing California's problems. Basically how this bill won't solve anything; it won't solve crime, it won't solve economy, it won't solve illegal immigration, etc. It is just a time and tax money waster.

1859sharps
09-13-2009, 9:58 PM
At this point, anyone who votes Democrat is voting FOR gun control. This is a fact, look how the Dems vote on these issues.
I vote based on a candidate's clear stance on Gun Control. Period. And I don't apologize to anyone for that. Screw the other issues. I'm keeping my guns first, then worrying about whatever else.

Please stop this kind of thinking. We can not afford to make being pro second amendment a republican only thing. Look at the make up of the legislature. we do that, we lose.

I didn't vote for Clinton, Davis or Obama. I am a fairly single issue voter, ie what's the candidates stance on gun control. But I also understand that a Democrat can and from time to time be even more pro 2nd amendment then some Republicans.

The bill of rights in general and the second amendment in specific are not rights that should be caught up in one party. we NEED to let pro second amendment democrats know we will support them just as strongly as a pro second amendment republican.

We make this a republican issue we lose our rights. it's that simple.

The second amendment isn't a party issue, its a constitutional rights issue. people from all parties in my opinion are welcome. this issue is to important to lock up in one demographic.

obeygiant
09-13-2009, 10:09 PM
Please stop this kind of thinking. We can not afford to make being pro second amendment a republican only thing. Look at the make up of the legislature. we do that, we lose.

I didn't vote for Clinton, Davis or Obama. I am a fairly single issue voter, ie what's the candidates stance on gun control. But I also understand that a Democrat can and from time to time be even more pro 2nd amendment then some Republicans.

The bill of rights in general and the second amendment in specific are not rights that should be caught up in one party. we NEED to let pro second amendment democrats know we will support them just as strongly as a pro second amendment republican.

We make this a republican issue we lose our rights. it's that simple.

The second amendment isn't a party issue, its a constitutional rights issue. people from all parties in my opinion are welcome. this issue is to important to lock up in one demographic.

well said.

EBWhite
09-13-2009, 10:33 PM
Are C&R dealers exempt from mail order ban or LEO's?

high_revs
09-13-2009, 10:52 PM
will fax in the morning. I think on past recommendations, a fax was better than email. snail is probably best but might not get there fast enough (though I like the professionalism with it signed too).

will fax and email. will even put wife's name (who did her part also) and say "she's a registered dem who's for 2A!!!).

hoffmang
09-13-2009, 11:06 PM
Are C&R dealers exempt from mail order ban or LEO's?

C&R + COE and LEO/LEAs are exempt...

That may actually make the bill die a Federal Law death actually...

-Gene

mfmayes49
09-14-2009, 12:13 AM
Arnie is a rino, My guess is he will sign the bill, After all he is married to a Kennedy. I'm all packed, moving out of state.

mikehaas
09-14-2009, 5:57 AM
So they can register to vote for corrupt anti-gun politicians, and make illegal firearms purchases in a federally licensed store. The NRA didn't say a frigging word about this crackpot license scheme. They don't even complain about anti-gun police chiefs; who don't turn illegals over to ICE, when they are caught with illegal guns. No green card = no guns in the USA.

Thanks for nothing; cowards. It's hard to get angry at somebody who won't join the NRA any more...
Are you freakin' nuts? Wanting NRA to take a position on illegal immigration? What next, abortion? Oh, and BTW, which side?

NRA needs to stay a SINGLE-ISSUE ORGANIZATION. Screw those "conservative" and "liberal" labels - I'm "pro-gun". I want every American who's a Democrat, illegal immigrant supporter, loves abortion, supports drug legalization, is gay, multi-lingual and/or anti-war to support gun-rights and join NRA. We also need as many legal citizens, Republicans, anti-illegal immigration, anti-abortionist, anti-drug, straight, english-only and/or pro-war Americans to support guns too - TO PROTECT THE SECOND AMENDMENT, WE NEED *EVERYONE* TO JOIN NRA and NO political belief system should exclude you (even being anti-gun - who else needs educated more?).

And when in an NRA meeting, check your other political attitudes at the door. They only serve to divide and conquer gun-owners who want to remain gun-owners.

As much as one's narrow mind might choose to deny it, Americans of all beliefs own guns - even Sarah Brady bought one for her son, remember? - and NRA's job is to protect all of them (even Sarah Brady's son). And above all - remember one thing - the "R" in "NRA" doesn't stand for (R)epublican. The second thing - gun-rights is not a "liberal" or "conservative" issue. NRA is for for high-flying fairies, knuckle-dragging neandrethals and everything in between. And I'll thank you for not painting our NRA with your non-2A personal beliefs, thank you.

Stop and think why none of "conservative" political movements - anti-immigration, anti-abortion, anti-big-government, anti-tax, WHATEVER - why have NONE of them suceeded like NRA in halting the advances of their enemies and protecting their constituencies? Because none of them are "BIG TENT" AND FOCUSED like NRA. I believe that technically, you can't be a felon and join NRA, but that's the only restriction and the only one that makes sense. They can't vote either. NRA needs to stay focused on gun-rights like a laser- not "conservative" or "liberal" hogwash.

Don't expect NRA to save the butt of your pet political movement, unless it's gun-rights. And the Second Amendment belongs to every American.

mikehaas
09-14-2009, 6:20 AM
My understanding is that since this was amended by the Senate after it was last approved by the Assembly it has to be voted on again by the Assembly to approve the changes. Or less likely, to go to a conference committee where they make more changes and compromises and then back to both Houses to be approved again.

Do I have that right?

CL
No. All of that is over. As of 9/11, AB 962 has been passed by BOTH houses of the state legislature and, like the thread title says, AB962 Mail Order Ammo Ban is now on the Governor's Desk.

The only way to stop the thing from becoming law now is for the Governor to actively veto the bill within 30 days. If he ignores it, it becomes law by default (no pocket veto in CA).

Please see and comprehend...
http://calnra.com/legs.shtml?year=2009&summary=ab962.1

(I put the http://calnra.com/gfx/btn/mored.gif button in the NRA Legs System to help answer questions like this. The above link will "press that button" for you.)

mikehaas
09-14-2009, 6:32 AM
...The only way to stop the thing from becoming law now is for the Governor to actively veto the bill within 30 days. If he ignores it, it becomes law by default (no pocket veto in CA...
One more thing - our task is far from impossible. We've done it before, actually. In 2006 the governor vetoed an ammo sales restrictions bill...

See...
http://calnra.com/legs.shtml?year=2006&summary=ab2714

high_revs
09-14-2009, 8:47 AM
fax sent! From both me and SO.

luckystrike
09-14-2009, 9:31 AM
sooooo...everyone is saying call the governer....anyone care to post his number? and what are we suposed to say to one of his dozen asistants that answers.????

johnny_22
09-14-2009, 9:32 AM
Anyone else getting through? Arnold's line is busy for me this morning.


Phone number is: 916-445-2841

luckystrike
09-14-2009, 9:39 AM
Anyone else getting through? Arnold's line is busy for me this morning.


Phone number is: 916-445-2841


thanks!

johnny_22
09-14-2009, 9:43 AM
Not on the automated list, yet, so you need to wait for a receptionist to answer the phone. I simply asked for the Governor's veto of AB962, the handgun ammunition registration bill, and SB585 (Leno), the Cow Palace Gun show ban. She asked for my name and city, state and I was done.

When he adds it to the voicemail tree, I'll know there are a lot a calls coming in.

luckystrike
09-14-2009, 9:48 AM
Not on the automated list, yet, so you need to wait for a receptionist to answer the phone. I simply asked for the Governor's veto of AB962, the handgun ammunition registration bill, and SB585 (Leno), the Cow Palace Gun show ban. She asked for my name and city, state and I was done.

When he adds it to the voicemail tree, I'll know there are a lot a calls coming in.


yup same here. pretty simple. but she didnt ask my name? hmmm

IGOTDIRT4U
09-14-2009, 10:04 AM
Email sent to Arnold. Calls will commence next week.

For simplicity sake, this link will take you directly to Arnolds webmail page:
http://www.govmail.ca.gov

Be sure to ask for his support in vetoing AB962!

Great link. It has a mini poll, "pro" or "con", too. Sent in my two cents.

Dr Rockso
09-14-2009, 10:17 AM
Anyone else getting through? Arnold's line is busy for me this morning.


Phone number is: 916-445-2841

Took about 10 tries to get through. I told the lady who answered that I was calling to urge the Governor to veto AB 962, she said "I'll pass that along to the governor" and that was it. Ten second conversation once you wade through the menus.

Maestro Pistolero
09-14-2009, 11:00 AM
Yep, very quick. Only took about 5 minutes to get through. But, is there any chance he has made up his mind already? I hope this counts.

kdm
09-14-2009, 11:01 AM
Sending e-mails every day. Trying to call, as well.

Thinking they'll end up putting my myriad e-mails in their spam folder...:mad:

.22guy
09-14-2009, 11:28 AM
I've been trying all morning and can't get through. :(

luckystrike
09-14-2009, 11:31 AM
hey sounds like their getting annoyed,wich is good,first they asked johnny 22 3 different questions,then asked me 2 then they didnt even ask maertro any questions at all. maybe its working. :D

Maestro Pistolero
09-14-2009, 11:35 AM
hey sounds like their getting annoyed,wich is good,first they asked johnny 22 3 different questions,then asked me 2 then they didnt even ask maertro any questions at all. maybe its working. :D

After she said she would pass it along, that was it. I said: "is there anything else you need from me?" Her answer: "Would you like to leave your name and the city you are from?"

I did.

McCrown
09-14-2009, 11:39 AM
Anybody here check Arnie's Twitter? I'm not into twitter, but I think he does alot on there. I'll take a look on Facebook. Let's hit him from all sides and angles!

xm177
09-14-2009, 11:40 AM
Emailed & called. Receptionist didn't ask for my name or city.

CraigC
09-14-2009, 11:43 AM
Wrote in. Trying to call, but the lines are busy.

FIRE FOR EFFECT

Cru Jones
09-14-2009, 11:46 AM
Although it goes against my every principle, I will "become a fan" of Arnie on Facebook only so that I can spam his wall with VETO AB962 posts.

luckystrike
09-14-2009, 11:49 AM
After she said she would pass it along, that was it. I said: "is there anything else you need from me?" Her answer: "Would you like to leave your name and the city you are from?"

I did.


hmm she asked rightoff the bat. didnt have to say anything else

bodger
09-14-2009, 11:49 AM
Anyone else getting through? Arnold's line is busy for me this morning.


Phone number is: 916-445-2841



FAX is: 916-558-3160

Inundate with e-mails, pnone calls, faxes, twits tweets, and everything else we've got!!

Kill this Bill.

BigBamBoo
09-14-2009, 12:02 PM
Just got through after about 30 min. of constant busy signal and redial. Also sent email and a fax. I doubt any of this will do any good....I don't see our beloved Gov. going against the flow...but who knows.

Take care,Stan

Federalist
09-14-2009, 12:18 PM
Emailed over the weekend, and just got through on the phone a minute ago. Asked the Governor to veto AB962 and SB585. The screener only asked for my city.

I've passed this along to everyone else I can think of.

coolusername2007
09-14-2009, 12:21 PM
Email sent.

ETA: Called in, got right through no problems (lucky me) and said "I want the Gov to veto both anti-gun bills, AB962 and SB585." The gentlemen asked for my name and location. That's all there was to it.

Someguy925
09-14-2009, 12:23 PM
@Schwarzenegger if you want to tweet him.

scratch
09-14-2009, 12:25 PM
I sent an email Saturday and a follow up email this morning after I couldn't get through on the phone.

In a NRA-ILA alert received this morning:

Finally, mail order ammunition sales are prohibited under AB962. Over twenty years ago, Congress abolished similar requirements because ammunition sales records were found to be useless for solving crimes.

Intimid8tor
09-14-2009, 12:26 PM
Emailed twice over the weekend and got through today. The staffer listened, and said would pass it on. We'll see. I wish we had a fly on the wall in the office with the phones ringing.

Cru Jones
09-14-2009, 12:29 PM
@Schwarzenegger if you want to tweet him.

I'm not a "Tweeter" so how does that work? Can we flood his Twitter with Veto requests?

Someguy925
09-14-2009, 12:31 PM
If you're interested you can create a twitter account here, http://twitter.com/

mmartin
09-14-2009, 12:42 PM
I've been trying all morning and can't get through. :(

have you tried multiple numbers? here's the complete list. if the office you're calling is busy, might try other offices. or what the heck, call them all!
916-445-2841 Sacramento
559-477-1804 Fresno
213-897-0322 LA
951-680-6860 Riverside
619-525-4641 San Diego
415-703-2218 San Fran
202-624-5270 DC

Megan

natasha69
09-14-2009, 12:50 PM
made my daily call. i tried 6 times and finally got through after hearing busy signals. i was on hold for 5 minutes, but then a staffer answered. told him i hoped the governor would veto AB962. he asked for my name and city, and then said he would pass on my thoughts to the governor.

do you think he cares where we are all located? i always wonder what someone is doing with the metrics. either way, i'll call back tomorrow and press the point.

Ifticar
09-14-2009, 12:58 PM
I thought that the Governor had promised to veto all non-budget bills until the budget had been fixed.

Intimid8tor
09-14-2009, 1:02 PM
have you tried multiple numbers? here's the complete list. if the office you're calling is busy, might try other offices. or what the heck, call them all!
916-445-2841 Sacramento
559-477-1804 Fresno
213-897-0322 LA
951-680-6860 Riverside
619-525-4641 San Diego
415-703-2218 San Fran
202-624-5270 DC

Megan

Called every office and left a message either on voicemail or with the person that answered the phone. Some seemed to be taking the message. Some seemed to be less than interested.

kf6tac
09-14-2009, 1:21 PM
FAX is: 916-558-3160

Inundate with e-mails, pnone calls, faxes, twits tweets, and everything else we've got!!

Kill this Bill.

Anyone had any luck with this fax number yet? Both of mine just got bounced - I'm hoping it's because we're all faxing him so hard that the fax machine is perpetually busy.

cj cake
09-14-2009, 1:23 PM
I just got through on the phone. The lady said "OK, I'll pass that on" and that's it.

mmartin
09-14-2009, 1:25 PM
Anyone had any luck with this fax number yet? Both of mine just got bounced - I'm hoping it's because we're all faxing him so hard that the fax machine is perpetually busy.

here's some more fax numbers to try, these are regional offices as well:
Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
State Capitol Building
Phone: 916-445-2841
Fax: 916-558-3160 ( new number )

Fresno Office
Phone: 559-477-1804
Fax: 559-445-5328

Los Angeles Office
Phone: 213-897-0322
Fax: 213-897-0319

Riverside Office
Phone: 951-680-6860
Fax: 951-680-6863

San Diego Office
Phone: 619-525-4641
Fax: 619-525-4640

San Francisco Office
Phone: 415-703-2218
Fax: 415-703-2803

Washington D.C. Office
Phone: 202-624-5270
Fax: 202-624-5280

Megan

jrr
09-14-2009, 1:26 PM
Another point for the gov, reading the language re FTF transfer it would seem that carriers like ups could be prosecuted if they deliver ammo without taking ID and a signature. Even if they don't know about the ammo, it would seem to be a strict liability statute.my .02

natasha69
09-14-2009, 1:32 PM
i have my C&R and COE. however i could see from an operations standpoint, UPS/FEDEX just saying so sorry, we're just not going to deliver ammo anymore in CA.

Super Spy
09-14-2009, 1:36 PM
I called, yes had to try over 20x, and hold for 15, and finally got to register my opinion. Anyone the Governator will man up and veto this?

SDgarrick
09-14-2009, 2:03 PM
anyone know the timeframe we are working with? when does the gov. have to veto by?

natasha69
09-14-2009, 2:05 PM
someone said 10/11.

but on wikipedia i read that he has to veto it 12 days after receiving it from the legislature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governor_of_California

The Veto - The governor has the option to veto a bill within 12 days after being received from the California State Legislature. The Legislature can override a veto by a two-thirds majority vote in both the Assembly and the Senate. The governor may exercise a line-item veto, rejecting individual items in any appropriations bill.

so 12 days from 09/11 would be 09/23 at the earliest, or if that is working days, then it is 09/29.

nic
09-14-2009, 2:26 PM
OK, called and emailed. Let's keep the pressure on, gents!

Maestro Pistolero
09-14-2009, 2:26 PM
Just did my first tweet, ever:

Need your leadership governor, urging vetoes on gun bills, AB962 and AB585. They are burdensome, misguided, unconstitutional@Schwarzenegger

sd_shooter
09-14-2009, 2:55 PM
Wrote a snail mail letter.

cortayack
09-14-2009, 2:59 PM
Tried to fax about three times and got a busy reply. Going to call...

Dr Rockso
09-14-2009, 3:11 PM
Just did my first tweet, ever:

Need your leadership governor, urging vetoes on gun bills, AB962 and AB585. They are burdensome, misguided, unconstitutional@Schwarzenegger
I don't use twitter but I think the "@Schwarzenegger" part is supposed to come first. Perhaps it doesn't matter.

Sobriquet
09-14-2009, 3:23 PM
Called and spoke to a woman in the Sacramento office. She was very quiet, but was polite and actually was writing down what I said. She read it back to me verbatim.

According to the staffer I spoke with, the Governor has no position on this bill and since they passed a budget, is no longer under his promise to veto everything that comes before his desk.

Keep the pressure on. Right now, it sounds very much like he's planning on doing nothing and punting.

woodsman
09-14-2009, 3:26 PM
Called and spoke to a woman in the Sacramento office. She was very quiet, but was polite and actually was writing down what I said. She read it back to me verbatim.

According to the staffer I spoke with, the Governor has no position on this bill and since they passed a budget, is no longer under his promise to veto everything that comes before his desk.

Keep the pressure on. Right now, it sounds very much like he's planning on doing nothing and punting.

But this isn't in that approved budget so he should veto for that reason. Am I missing something?

Sobriquet
09-14-2009, 3:28 PM
But this isn't in that approved budget so he should veto for that reason. Am I missing something?

Truthfully, I haven't been following the budget crisis closely. I'm not sure where in the process they are, so I wasn't going to argue that with her. I'm just repeating what the staffer said on the phone.

woodsman
09-14-2009, 3:30 PM
Truthfully, I haven't been following the budget crisis closely. I'm not sure where in the process they are, so I wasn't going to argue that with her. I'm just repeating what the staffer said on the phone.

Understood.

Maybe in his mind, he'll be gone so it won't be his issue to deal with.

FeuerFrei
09-14-2009, 3:35 PM
Just e-mailed der statthalter Schwarzenegger.
God help us. He is our only chance.
Not too hopeful right now.

Voo
09-14-2009, 3:36 PM
i wrote a letter via his website..I'm also about to tweet him silly!?! Who knows if that'll help, but count me in..

We need to rally and show him that this is NOT ACCEPTABLE..!!!

Esquire
09-14-2009, 4:12 PM
I, too, really hate the idea of finger prints and giving all those personal info every time ammo is purchased. It's bad enough we submit to that invasion of privacy during DROSS. Let me relate to you a story. When I was in downtown L.A. fews weeks ago, I stopped by a Big 5 Sporting Goods store, to browse for guns/ammo. Neither were available. All they had were the Airsofts... It was a SAD, SAD sight to behold. A scary but inexorable question popped into my head: "Is this the future of guns/ammo in California?"

At that moment, I recalled how circa late 80's/early 90's I had walked into a K-mart and was able to purchase a 22 rifle simply by show of valid Driver's License. I was overcome with a profound sense of loss. We had it so good!

Sorry for the emotions.... Now that I sufficiently depressed everyone, does everyone think that .22 (LR or Magnum) is going to get classified as handgun ammo? It is usable in handgun, but is it "principally" used as defined in the bill's text? So far, that seems to be the consensus in Calguns. To me, principally in its ordinary meaning denotes at least a majority and probably a lot more...

Swatter911
09-14-2009, 4:13 PM
Email sent via his website and a call made today exprssing my opposition to both AB962 and SB585.

I happen to be in Sacramento right now. If I bump into Arnie I'll be sure to voice my opposition to both measures directly. :)

five.five-six
09-14-2009, 4:44 PM
(2) For purposes of this subdivision, “ammunition” shall include,
but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed
loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a
firearm with a deadly consequence. “Ammunition” does not include
blanks.

this line is very bothersom...does it ban projectiles?

blanks can't cause deadly consequences?

Glock22Fan
09-14-2009, 4:54 PM
Governator contacted.

five.five-six
09-14-2009, 5:04 PM
govinator contacted

AB 962 is bad legislation. it only serves to make shooting and practicing more expensive. there is no logical connection between infringing ammunition availability and crime. Gangs don't buy bulk ammo online, hobbyist do. AB 962 would only serve to make saving money a crime.

sincerely
five.five-six

510shooter510
09-14-2009, 5:06 PM
hey guys, when will we know?

gbran
09-14-2009, 5:11 PM
I don't have that many outlets in my area to buy ammo. Don't have any big box stores. A gun show comes thru about five times/year. Most of my ammo is purchased at the gunshow or online. Walmart doesn't carry much of my calibers. This will be a killer at gunshows.

Hunt
09-14-2009, 5:15 PM
this line is very bothersom...does it ban projectiles?

blanks can't cause deadly consequences?

looks like reloading supplies as well this is not good, we are in the midst of a Communist coup.


what will it be next year? Storing all your ammo at the police station and waiting 6 weeks for approval to pick it up to go shooting!! I am not joking.

bradph
09-14-2009, 5:17 PM
This is violation of our Second Amendment rights.

I will chip in money to sue the pants off whoever is responsible for this bill.

Brad

Liberty1
09-14-2009, 5:26 PM
This is violation of our Second Amendment rights.

I will chip in money to sue the pants off whoever is responsible for this bill.

Brad

Give early and often! The Calguns Foundation (http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/)

Read up on who we're already suing!

CHS
09-14-2009, 5:27 PM
hey guys, when will we know?

Within 30 days the Governor must veto the bill. Otherwise it becomes law.

Hunt
09-14-2009, 5:36 PM
This is violation of our Second Amendment rights.

I will chip in money to sue the pants off whoever is responsible for this bill.

Brad

wake up you are in the midst of a Communist coup