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dantodd
09-10-2009, 11:37 PM
Is it politically easier for the Governor to veto SB585 (and maybe AB962) if he has SB41 on his desk to sign so the antis will be less likely to try and paint him as a "gun lover?"

HondaMasterTech
09-10-2009, 11:46 PM
Who knows. I just hope he does the right thing.

dantodd
09-10-2009, 11:56 PM
knowing will get us much further than hoping ;)

Dr Rockso
09-11-2009, 12:04 AM
Well, what are his chances of re-election at this point? I see him signing both bills to protect his image. Including AB962
Two term limit, so I'd call it a 0% chance of re-election.

HondaMasterTech
09-11-2009, 12:09 AM
lol. Forgot about that.

berto
09-11-2009, 10:17 AM
What reason does Arnie have to care either way? He's termed out as gov and has pissed off enough of his own party that his political future is bleak.

Gator Monroe
09-11-2009, 10:20 AM
Two term limit, so I'd call it a 0% chance of re-election.

This is needed on a National Level .

bwiese
09-11-2009, 10:22 AM
Is it politically easier for the Governor to veto SB585 (and maybe AB962) if he has SB41 on his desk to sign so the antis will be less likely to try and paint him as a "gun lover?"

;)

Good thinking, my friend.

HunterJim
09-11-2009, 1:05 PM
This is needed on a National Level .

I say "not so". We got term limits in California in large measure because so many folks hated Willie Brown, now we are stuck with a system that guarantees the Legislature and State are run by amateurs and those from the freshman class at that.

jim

Shotgun Man
09-11-2009, 4:41 PM
Is it politically easier for the Governor to veto SB585 (and maybe AB962) if he has SB41 on his desk to sign so the antis will be less likely to try and paint him as a "gun lover?"

Interesting theory. As others have said, his political future would appear bleak so I would expect he would be impervious to such concerns.

I think he has little regard for the 2A and he'll see how the bills are supported by urban LEAs and sign them. His signing statement will be along the lines, "I do this so that the people of the state of California will be protected from violent, dangerous criminals using firearms."

wildhawker
09-11-2009, 5:08 PM
I say "not so". We got term limits in California in large measure because so many folks hated Willie Brown, now we are stuck with a system that guarantees the Legislature and State are run by amateurs and those from the freshman class at that.

jim

The intent of a bicameral legislature is to balance the "people's" house, with its shorter terms and higher rate of turnover (more efficiently and accurately reflecting "the voice of the people"), with an upper house whose members enjoy longer terms and are [theoretically] less inclined to be persuaded by the whims of the current majority (and subject to the majority's political wrath if a contrary position were to be taken). The composition and operation of legislatures nationwide were substantially changed in 1964 with Reynolds v. Sims and Wesberry v. Sanders, creating a population-centered districting criteria; the selection of the US Senate itself had been grossly modified in 1913 with the ratification of the 17A (some believe that this was an end-around the states and provides more opportunity for pandering in creating what amounts to a country-club version of the House, but I digress). Term limits and these cases have unquestionably changed politics in California and other states; however, there is plenty of opportunity for politicians to remain active in upper-level California politics even with the term limits. I really don't think Sacramento can be objectively found to be "...run by amateurs..."

dantodd
09-11-2009, 5:16 PM
Interesting theory. As others have said, his political future would appear bleak so I would expect he would be impervious to such concerns.

I think he has little regard for the 2A and he'll see how the bills are supported by urban LEAs and sign them. His signing statement will be along the lines, "I do this so that the people of the state of California will be protected from violent, dangerous criminals using firearms."

Well, I believe he is eligible to run for Senate and if he doesn't choose to do that he will likely go back to Hollywood and is still married to a Kennedy. There is more at stake than just his political career. Sadly being PWed and the potential of being "Magnum PIed" by Hollywood are probably not small concerns for our Governor.

hoffmang
09-12-2009, 12:14 AM
;)

Good thinking, my friend.

:iagree:

-Gene

Meplat
09-12-2009, 12:58 AM
They are supposed to be amateurs, the professional political class is a big part of the problem.



I say "not so". We got term limits in California in large measure because so many folks hated Willie Brown, now we are stuck with a system that guarantees the Legislature and State are run by amateurs and those from the freshman class at that.

jim

SkiDevil
09-12-2009, 2:05 AM
". . . now we are stuck with a system that guarantees the Legislature and State are run by amateurs and those from the freshman class at that."

jim

Generally speaking, a legislator, locally (municipal) elected representative, or State/ National office holder is only as good/ effective as the people who surround them (read staff and/ or advisors).

SkiDevil
09-12-2009, 2:17 AM
What reason does Arnie have to care either way? He's termed out as gov and has pissed off enough of his own party that his political future is bleak.

The Governor's political career will NOT end at the conclusion of his current term.

Mr. Arnold has two very key advantages which favor his political future that many others do not.

1. NAME RECOGNITION - He is known all over the world.

2. MONEY - He is a VERY wealthy man.

What are two of the most crucial key ingredients to becoming elected to ANY office in the United States? Name recognition and Campaign Financing (Money).

This has been proven many times over, particularly with President Obama. He out spent every other candidate by a wide margin.

Oh Yes, like someone already said. It doesn't hurt that you married into the Kennedy clan too.

Like it or not, The Govenator WILL BE BACK.:eek:

SkiDevil

Maestro Pistolero
09-12-2009, 3:11 AM
Like it or not, The Govenator WILL BE BACK
If Swarzenegger expects to compete as a Republican on the national stage, a pro-gun veto could help him.

chiselchst
09-12-2009, 3:44 AM
Here are some of the arguements against AB962:

(I highlighted the points I like)
_____________________________
ARGUMENTS IN OPPOSITION : The National Rifle Association
states:

"The proponents of AB962 claim that new legislation is
needed to stop the transfer of handgun ammunition to
criminals. In California, the transfer of ammunition to
a prohibited person is a crime and the possession of
ammunition by a prohibited person is a crime.

"The passage of Assembly Bill 962 would create a new
Department of Justice Program that costs millions of
dollars without providing a funding source. The analysis
from Assembly Appropriations committee states that; a
preliminary estimate, DOJ projects first-year start-up

AB 962
Page
7

costs of $500,000, increasing to more than $2 million in
2010-11 and $1 million in 2011-12.
"In a time of a critical budgets crisis, that is forcing
law enforcement agency layoffs statewide, it would not be
prudent to create an increased burden on limited law
enforcement resources."

Gun Owners of California (GOC) writes:

"As you were informed last year during testimony on AB
2062, the Federal Government had in place an ammunition
registration program established in the 1968 Gun Control
Act that was discarded by Congress in 1986 when the U.S.
Treasury Department testified that the program was of no
use in crime fighting.

"In the 18 years that the nationwide mandate (no state
was exempt from the program) was in place, not a single
crime was solved due to the registration program. Not a
single crime solved even though there were literally 10's
of millions of recorded transactions. If the program had
even a shred of merit, one would think that even a few
crimes would have been solved. The fact is there were
none. In order to get this bill through the CA
legislature, you have now amended this bill to be a
virtual duplicate of the program which was eliminated by
Congress.

"Ammunition or ammunition purchaser registration, in any
form, serves only to infringe upon the rights of
law-abiding citizens. It has proven to do nothing
towards preventing criminals from violating federal or
state laws. In fact, the U.S. Supreme Court in U.S. vs.
Haynes has held that criminals cannot be compelled to
obey these registration laws because doing so would
violate their right against self-incrimination. They can
be prosecuted for breaking the law but they cannot be
compelled to obey the law. Therefore there is no crime
prevention aspect to AB 962.

"AB 962 will do nothing to prevent criminals from
acquiring ammunition and will do nothing to assist law
enforcement in catching criminals. This bill will only

AB 962
Page
8

create a massive record keeping system costing millions
of taxpayer's dollars, destroy the legal commerce of
ammunition, and will make it cumbersome for law-abiding
citizens to exercise their rights.

"GOC believes that recent [discussions] in the Senate
Appropriations Committee to fund this bill out of the
Dealer Record of Sales Special Account is illegal."
___________________________
Source:
http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bil...sen_floor.html

trashman
09-12-2009, 5:53 PM
I really don't think Sacramento can be objectively found to be "...run by amateurs..."

Exactly. The problem (and frustration) is that term-limits have had an unexpected by-product: legislators are not generally held accountable outside their own party primary systems -- they simply serve their permitted terms, and then move on to Insurance Commissioner, AG, Deputy Gov, and so on.

It's made it very difficult to build lasting political coalitions. With so much turnover every year is a new year, all over again, for gunnies.

--Neill

KylaGWolf
09-12-2009, 6:01 PM
You know I have wondered that too if he passes the least offensive of the "anti" gun bills he would still look to be a protective governor. I hate to say it but if signing AB41 would get him to veto the other two I would say ok and just grumble every time I had to pick up a new gun. Gene said it on the thread for the AB41 bill and I have to agree while signing your name a second time may seem like a waste of time it could come in handy later.

dantodd
09-12-2009, 7:39 PM
Gene said it on the thread for the AB41 bill and I have to agree while signing your name a second time may seem like a waste of time it could come in handy later.

You'd have to waste a lot of time signing your name to make up for 10 days.

wildhawker
09-12-2009, 8:50 PM
Neill, truly a double-edged sword. I wonder what CA politics would look like with 1 senator/county and no term limits; to really spice up the hypothetical, we could make the senators directly appointed by the county BOS. Dan, sorry to threadjack.

KylaGWolf
09-12-2009, 9:45 PM
Agreed I hate the ten day wait.

berto
09-12-2009, 10:02 PM
The Governor's political career will NOT end at the conclusion of his current term.

Mr. Arnold has two very key advantages which favor his political future that many others do not.

1. NAME RECOGNITION - He is known all over the world.

2. MONEY - He is a VERY wealthy man.

What are two of the most crucial key ingredients to becoming elected to ANY office in the United States? Name recognition and Campaign Financing (Money).

This has been proven many times over, particularly with President Obama. He out spent every other candidate by a wide margin.

Oh Yes, like someone already said. It doesn't hurt that you married into the Kennedy clan too.

Like it or not, The Govenator WILL BE BACK.:eek:

SkiDevil

Given the mess his time as governor turned into, no matter how much was his fault, I don't see him as a credible candidate. He pissed off both sides but doesn't have the benefit of having accomplished anything. He'll have to run as a republican but has many fences to mend.

You're correct about his money and fame. The Kennedy link doesn't help him as even a nominal republican. The best thing he has going for him is the lack of a functional republican party in CA. Sure he can run for Senate in 2012 and hope that Feinstein retires and there is an anti Obama wave he can ride. It's a lot of hope for a turncoat.