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Sirca
09-09-2009, 10:55 AM
If I remove my semi centerfire rifle stock to make the rifle more compact and easier to transport (on a motorcycle, for example), it would be under 30" (and under 26").

12276.1.(a)(3)..."assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following...A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.

According to the flowsheet (http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf), the rifle's length is determined with its stock in its collapsed/folded configuration (if applicable). My stock isn't collapsible, but is removing it the same thing?

Also, is the ability to shoot with the stock removed an issue? (the Keltec SU-16, which I don't own, collapses, but you apparently cannot shoot it in when the stock is folded). Looks like I could still shoot my rifle with the stock removed, not that'd I'd want to...

Thanks for any references or thoughts on this.

GrizzlyGuy
09-09-2009, 11:14 AM
The last paragraph in Q7 here might be relevant:

http://www.calguns.net/a_california_arak.htm

"...So at all times avoid transport legal issues with assault weapons: always transport them - even at the bare receiver level! - in a locked case and between specific authorized destinations (discussed in a subsequent FAQ question below)"

dantodd
09-09-2009, 11:15 AM
He isn't talking about registered assault weapons.

GrizzlyGuy
09-09-2009, 11:51 AM
Sorry for not being clear, I just meant that if he transports it in a locked case while going place to place like they recommend for AW's in the FAQ, he should be fine. The fed provision for interstate transportation of firearms could even be used if he gets hassled.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/926A.html

Flopper
09-09-2009, 1:38 PM
The AWB is the least of your worries here.

Removing the stock without disabling the firing mechanism would be illegal construction of an SBR. DON'T do it.

Transporting a bare receiver is completely different from transporting a rifle minus the stock, and FOPA only covers those who are legitimately traveling from one state, through a more restrictive state(s), to another state where the firearm is legal. It does not protect intrastate travel with an illegally configured firearm.

Flopper
09-09-2009, 1:47 PM
Sorry for not being clear, I just meant that if he transports it in a locked case while going place to place like they recommend for AW's in the FAQ, he should be fine. The fed provision for interstate transportation of firearms could even be used if he gets hassled.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/926A.html

I'm not trying to browbeat, but there is a lot of confusion in some of the posts in this thread and it could lead to some bad outcomes if people don't understand what's going on here.

The advice which you quoted pertains ONLY to Registered Assault Weapons. These are firearms that are considered by CA to be assault weapons, but they bypass the restriction because they were grandfathered in AND registered with the state. Firearms can no longer be registered as RAW's, so all new firearms must not be banned by name or restricted by feature.

Just because you have an illegal assault weapon and transport it according to the special RAW transport rules doesn't somehow make your illegal assault weapon legally transported.

Sirca
09-09-2009, 2:33 PM
Removing the stock without disabling the firing mechanism would be illegal construction of an SBR. DON'T do it.

Don't understand how removing the stock would make it a SBR. Would like to understand that.

It's not a big deal to me. It's easily transportable as is, but removing the stock would help a bit.

kf6tac
09-09-2009, 2:39 PM
Don't understand how removing the stock would make it a SBR. Would like to understand that.

It's not a big deal to me. It's easily transportable as is, but removing the stock would help a bit.

It's an SBR if its overall length is less than 26 inches, regardless of the length of the barrel.

Sirca
09-09-2009, 3:12 PM
It's an SBR if its overall length is less than 26 inches, regardless of the length of the barrel.

Thanks for that.

So if I remove the stock, I would also have to disable the firing mechanism? Removing the bolt assembly, including the striker (easier than removing the stock in this particular rifle), would have me good to go?

Not looking for a "safe harbor" here, of course, just some reasonable guidance. Thanks.

Josh3239
09-09-2009, 3:14 PM
It's an SBR if its overall length is less than 26 inches, regardless of the length of the barrel.

Source? How can you call a short barreled rifle a rifle with a 16+'' barrel, even if the overall length is under the legal limit? If the overall length is less than 30'' but the barrel is greater than 16'' it sounds like an AW, not a SBR.

Dr Rockso
09-09-2009, 3:17 PM
The AWB is the least of your worries here.

Removing the stock without disabling the firing mechanism would be illegal construction of an SBR. DON'T do it.

Transporting a bare receiver is completely different from transporting a rifle minus the stock, and FOPA only covers those who are legitimately traveling from one state, through a more restrictive state(s), to another state where the firearm is legal. It does not protect intrastate travel with an illegally configured firearm.

So you're saying that every time I take the stock off of my 10/22 I'm making an SBR? There are plenty of rifles out there that you can't disable the firing mechanism before taking the stock off.

kf6tac
09-09-2009, 3:24 PM
Source? How can you call a short barreled rifle a rifle with a 16+'' barrel, even if the overall length is under the legal limit? If the overall length is less than 30'' but the barrel is greater than 16'' it sounds like an AW, not a SBR.

National Firearms Act, 26 USC 5845:

For the purpose of this chapter—
(a) Firearm
The term “firearm” means
(1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
(4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
(5) any other weapon, as defined in subsection (e);
(6) a machinegun;
(7) any silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code); and
(8) a destructive device. The term “firearm” shall not include an antique firearm or any device (other than a machinegun or destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the Secretary finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector’s item and is not likely to be used as a weapon.

Short-barrel rifle is not an official term that is defined by statute, but rather a shorthand that has since been applied both rifles that actually have a barrel shorter than 16" and also to rifles that have a shorter than 26" overall length. Regardless of what you call them, both are regulated by the NFA.

Flopper
09-09-2009, 3:29 PM
Don't understand how removing the stock would make it a SBR. Would like to understand that.

It's not a big deal to me. It's easily transportable as is, but removing the stock would help a bit.

You're right, it is ridiculous that removing the stock would make it a Short Barreled Rifle. . . but gun laws have never been accused of being sane or logical.

If you want to make it smaller for transport, disassemble the rifle so it can't be fired. If it's an AR15 or similar rifle, separate the upper from the lower and you should be good to go.

There are a number of things that will run afoul of the SBR regs. Off the top of my head: shortening a barrel/attaching a barrel of less than 16", possessing a rifle shorter than 26" (30" for CA), removing a stock from a rifle, and attaching a stock to a pistol are just a few of the ways to go to Club Fed.

Read up on the National Firearms Act (NFA). It's the law which governs items that are popularly know as "Class III." It governs SBR's, short-barreled shotguns, machine guns, suppressors, destructive devices, and Any Other Weapons.

GrizzlyGuy
09-09-2009, 4:04 PM
I'm not trying to browbeat, but there is a lot of confusion in some of the posts in this thread and it could lead to some bad outcomes if people don't understand what's going on here.

Browbeat away, I don't want to end up giving bad info.

Until you pointed it out, I didn't realize that simply removing the stock (without first disabling the firing mechanism) would instantaneously turn the rifle into a short barreled rifle. That's good to know in case I notice something wrong with my carbine while cleaning it: FIRST reassemble it, THEN drive it over to my gunsmith. Or drive over a big box-o nonfunctional parts. :-)

wash
09-09-2009, 4:16 PM
A centerfire rifle between 26" and 30" in California is not an SBR unless the barrel is less than 16". I think it's becomes an unregistered "assault weapon".

Still illegal but a different law.

Sirca
09-09-2009, 4:22 PM
I appreciate all the info. It's been helpful and it's inspired me to send a donation to CGF.

Thanks to all you guys - for what you do, and have done.

Rock on...