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Attiic
09-08-2009, 4:09 PM
Hello everybody, i have got a few questions about selling C&R guns in this state o California.
A friend of mine has been collecting guns for quite some time, and has decided that it is time to cash in and sell some of them. If I am not mistaken, a majority of these guns are over 50 years old, and are a mix of handguns and long guns.
My question: for his C&R guns, how would he go about selling them, be it on gunbroker, face-to-face private sales, or even on the CGN classifieds?
What about so-called "assault weapons" that he bought before the ban? what are the regulations on selling those?

All help is appreciated.

CSACANNONEER
09-08-2009, 4:39 PM
Any so called assault weapons will need to be taken out of state, by the registered owner, and sold to a FFL ONLY! Or, sold through a Ca. FFL with an AW permit. Remember that just because he bought them before the AW ban doesn't mean they are "registered"! He had to fill out his own paperwork, send it to DOJ and receive confirmation to make them legal. If he does not have the AW registration, possession of the alledged AWs would be a felony! If this is the case, DO NOT POST OR TALK ABOUT IT!!!! Contact one of the attornies who post here and get it sorted out. ALL handguns need to go through a 01FFL no matter how old they are except, handguns manufactured in or before 1898 are considered antiques and can be sold FTF. Long guns 50 years old or older can be sold FTF as well.

emcon5
09-08-2009, 4:40 PM
The short answer:
Pistols need to go through a dealer,
C&R long guns can go face to face,
Scary-evil-black-nasty-assault weapons must leave the state.

From the FAQ on the Attorney General site:
http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php

I want to sell a gun to another person, i.e., a private party transfer. Am I required to conduct the transaction through a licensed California firearms dealer?

Yes. Firearm sales must be conducted through a fully licensed California firearms dealer. Failure to do so is a violation of California law. The buyer (and seller, in the event that the; buyer is denied), must meet the normal firearm purchase and delivery requirements. "Antique firearms," as defined in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code, and curio or relic rifles/shotguns, defined in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations that are over 50 years old, are exempt from this requirement.

Firearms dealers are required to process private party transfers upon request. Firearms dealers may charge a fee not to exceed $10 per firearm for conducting a private party transfer. Example:

You can't even pass the so called "assault weapons" to your kids.:rolleyes:

Mssr. Eleganté
09-08-2009, 4:41 PM
.My question: for his C&R guns, how would he go about selling them, be it on gunbroker, face-to-face private sales, or even on the CGN classifieds? What about so-called "assault weapons" that he bought before the ban? what are the regulations on selling those?

He has to sell the "assault weapons" to someone outside of California, unless they are "assault weapons" by feature only and can be modified into a non-A/W configuration. If the "assault weapons" were registered during one of the California "assault weapon" registration periods and he has the "assault weapon" registration letters for them, then he can either transfer them to an out of State FFL through a California FFL who has an A/W permit or he can take them out of state himself and transfer them to somebody in another State via an FFL in their State. If the A/W's were not registered as A/W's then possession and transportation of them are both separate crime in California.

For any of the C&R firearms that are not A/W's, he can sell them on Calguns, on Gunbroker or locally. C&R long guns that are at least 50 years old can be sold within California without going through an FFL. Everything else has to go through an FFL on the buyer's end.

If he sells them to somebody outside of California, he must ship or deliver them himself them to an appropriate FFL in the buyer's State. C&R firearms can be shipped directly to C&R FFL's in most other States.

Full Clip
09-08-2009, 4:45 PM
What about so-called "assault weapons" that he bought before the ban? what are the regulations on selling those?


It depends on if they are actually "assault weapons" as per CA law. If they are, and were registered by him (as he should have), then they can't be sold intact in-state. They could, however, be parted out and all parts sold in state except the receiver (defined by CA as "the gun" as is is the recorded, serialized part). The receiver and/or the complete rifles could be sold out of state, however.

Oh, wait... what CAScannoneer posted while I was writing this... :o

Attiic
09-08-2009, 5:21 PM
All right then, hypothetically he could add or subtract the necessary parts to make a gun CA legal and sell them within this state, right?
As for the C&Rs, could he conduct cash-and-carry private sales, no?

thanks again for helping my understand the laws.

CSACANNONEER
09-08-2009, 5:25 PM
All right then, hypothetically he could add or subtract the necessary parts to make a gun CA legal and sell them within this state, right?
As for the C&Rs, could he conduct cash-and-carry private sales, no?

thanks again for helping my understand the laws.

Some, YES. Some, NO! here's a good place to start: http://calnra.com/cgi-bin/flowchart.cgi

Mssr. Eleganté
09-08-2009, 5:29 PM
...As for the C&Rs, could he conduct cash-and-carry private sales, no?.

He can conduct cash and carry private sales only for C&R long guns that are at least 50 years old, and only if they are not A/W's. If he doesn't have a C&R FFL himself then these cash and carry private sales must only be to other California residents.

Attiic
09-09-2009, 2:02 PM
You guys are so helpful. thanks
I have heard that one could catch the eye of the BATF for selling too frequently, is this true?
As for private C&R long gun sales, does the buyer need a 03 FFL?

On another note, how do all you other residents of LA county get your cheap surplus ammo? It seems that the internet is the only place, but shipping to LA is a no-go.

Mssr. Eleganté
09-09-2009, 2:29 PM
You guys are so helpful. thanks
I have heard that one could catch the eye of the BATF for selling too frequently, is this true?

People who catch the eye of BATFE for selling too frequently are those who get into the habit of buying and then quickly selling firearms repeatedly for a profit. If you are just selling off your collection then BATFE does not consider you to be a "dealer". Here's what BATFE says about it...

The term "dealer" means any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail.

The term "engaged in the business" means, as applied to a dealer in firearms, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms

California does have a limit on the number of handgun sales you can make without being a Licensed Dealer. The California limit is 5 handgun transactions per year, but each transaction can be for any number of handguns sold to one person.



As for private C&R long gun sales, does the buyer need a 03 FFL?.

If the buyer is a California resident then he does not need to be an 03 FFL. If the buyer is from out of state then he would need to be at least an 03 FFL in order to do a cash and carry sale within California. If your friend (the seller) is an 03 FFL then he can also sell 50+ year old C&R long guns to unlicensed buyers from out of state, but only if the buyer comes to your friend's licensed premises for the transfer.

TheCilician
09-10-2009, 10:29 AM
I'm looking at the threads, and can't find the answer:

If I Cash and Carry with a fellow Calgunner, how do we transfer the names of the registered firearm? Is there a form I can print?

The law states that dealers can charge up to $10 for any PPT, but does that apply as well for a C&R gun?

olhunter
09-10-2009, 10:54 AM
On another note, how do all you other residents of LA county get your cheap surplus ammo? It seems that the internet is the only place, but shipping to LA is a no-go.

Ammoman.com usually has free shipping, no tax and decent prices.

emcon5
09-10-2009, 11:18 AM
I'm looking at the threads, and can't find the answer:

If I Cash and Carry with a fellow Calgunner, how do we transfer the names of the registered firearm? Is there a form I can print? No forms for face to face C&R long guns. No need to transfer names of the registered firearm because it isn't registered. If I was selling one, I would want a photocopy of the buyers driver's license, and have them sign a bill of sale stating they are not prohibited from owning firearms.

The law states that dealers can charge up to $10 for any PPT, but does that apply as well for a C&R gun?Yes, but unless it is a pistol there is no reason to go through a dealer for a transfer. that $10 is above and beyond the $25 DROS fee, and remember that going through a dealer means 10 day wait.

Attiic
09-10-2009, 1:24 PM
Ammoman.com usually has free shipping, no tax and decent prices.

If im not mistaken, ammo cannot be shipped into LA county, because of some law.

Dekker
09-10-2009, 2:27 PM
I think that's just LA City. I get ammo shipped to me and I'm in LA County(Santa Clarita), and I have 0 problems. Most websites will say no ammo to city of LA but I've yet to see one that banned ammo to LA county.