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View Full Version : Kidd 10/22 ??what barrel??


264charlie
09-08-2009, 3:09 PM
Hello Gents,

I am setting on the Kidd site looking to order a 10/22 to shoot in local matches.

What is the barrel I should get?

18" SS
20" SS
18" Lightweight sleeved

Thanks for your help...

Teletiger7
09-08-2009, 3:13 PM
I remember someone saying that after 18" the velocity may actually start going down as the powder is burnt up and the barrel friction starts to slow the bullet down.

264charlie
09-08-2009, 3:24 PM
I was worried about weight. I had (sold) an 18" bull barrel AR that was not easy to shoot offhand more than once. I didn't even think a 20" barrel could be too long.

Thanks for the heads up.

Novadesigns
09-08-2009, 4:09 PM
I have a 20" target barrel on mine and it shoots fine, but I want to go down to 18" to save some weight.

shooter65
09-08-2009, 5:01 PM
Really no reason for a heavy barrel. I would go with the lighter barrel.

Timberwolf
09-08-2009, 5:04 PM
You know if you would ditch the idea of a 10/22 and go with the Savage MkII BTVS or similar series you wouldn't need to debate which barrel to swap the factory one for. They come out of the box out shooting most people's abilities and you don't need to customize it to make it do so.

Brotherhood of the Bolt

264charlie
09-08-2009, 6:37 PM
Don't 10/22 win most matches?

... They do make a left-hand version of the savage.

buffybuster
09-08-2009, 6:59 PM
Don't 10/22 win most matches?

I think it's more the Indian rather than the bow....

264charlie
09-08-2009, 8:49 PM
Agreed... But I can't ride so every advantage is helpful. If club racing has taught me anything it's to copy the top guys.

Timberwolf
09-08-2009, 9:01 PM
10/22s have no advantage over bolt guns unless time is a factor - which in my matches it is not. 10/22s basically need customizing out of the box to make them be competitive unless you buy the target model and, though some may disagree, they have a lot more jamming problems than bolt guns, especially in the fine dust of SoCal. The Savages come out of the box shooting well, add a EGW 20MOA rail and some good glass and you're ready to rock and roll.

bombadillo
09-08-2009, 9:18 PM
18" SS. I'm dying for one of those complete setups. Cost about 900 bucks and worth every penny. There are a lot of rumors of who makes the barrels and if shilen or lilja make them for him, but I don't know of anybody who gave a straight shooting answer to where they came from.

264charlie
09-08-2009, 9:41 PM
From the Kidd site "Our stainless steel barrel is bored and rifled by Lothar Walther in Germany"

bombadillo
09-08-2009, 9:56 PM
Aww, that must be updated then, because a while back it didn't say anything of the sort.

264charlie
09-08-2009, 10:14 PM
10/22s have no advantage over bolt guns unless time is a factor - which in my matches it is not. 10/22s basically need customizing out of the box to make them be competitive unless you buy the target model and, though some may disagree, they have a lot more jamming problems than bolt guns, especially in the fine dust of SoCal. The Savages come out of the box shooting well, add a EGW 20MOA rail and some good glass and you're ready to rock and roll.

What is "good" glass on a 22?

Novadesigns
09-08-2009, 10:37 PM
I'm pretty happy with my Bushnell Elite 3200 5-15 mildot. Good glass, bright, solid tracking and only $350!

264charlie
09-08-2009, 10:41 PM
Currently looking at the 44mm Falcon Menace... Mostly for the mill turret and 75 MOA adjustment.

Thanks for all the help.

bombadillo
09-09-2009, 8:18 AM
Mueller APV for rimfire stuff.

ego 08
09-09-2009, 10:59 AM
http://www.sightwonders.com/wotacriflescope.html

This is the one I use, the reticule is thinner, I have a menace also 4-14 FFP but when you zoom in the reticule gets fatter, not as good when your shooting the small targets at 50yds.

Timberwolf
09-09-2009, 12:14 PM
Up until June I had used a Walmart special Centerpoint 4-16x50 MD - it worked very well on my 22 (well enough to set up all the stages). I got a Nikon Buckmaster 6-18X40 SF, MD in June from Midway on specail (299.00 IIRC) and like it just fine. The main thing is finding a scope that goes down to at least 50 yds if not 25 yds.

264charlie
09-09-2009, 4:37 PM
Was hoping to find something with a .1 mrad turret...

Timberwolf
09-09-2009, 4:44 PM
You may find that you want a little finer than .36 MOA for a precision 22LR.

264charlie
09-09-2009, 6:03 PM
Well then... Back to 1/4 MOA.

bombadillo
09-09-2009, 8:30 PM
I don't know that I would call it "good glass" but for the bang for the buck, I have one on my AR right now and i'm able to shoot 200 yard sub MOA with it all day long. Its got the really fine reticle, solid turret adjustments in 1/8moa clicks. all the way down to 25 yard adjustable objective for parallax, and hey you can't beat the price. http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&brand=XR&prodID=XRTG1410001&prodTitle=6-24X44%20W/FINE%20CROSSHAIR%20RETICLE

buffybuster
09-09-2009, 10:12 PM
I don't know that I would call it "good glass" but for the bang for the buck, I have one on my AR right now and i'm able to shoot 200 yard sub MOA with it all day long. Its got the really fine reticle, solid turret adjustments in 1/8moa clicks. all the way down to 25 yard adjustable objective for parallax, and hey you can't beat the price. http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&brand=XR&prodID=XRTG1410001&prodTitle=6-24X44%20W/FINE%20CROSSHAIR%20RETICLE

What's the total elevation adjustment? You're going to need at least 50-60MOA total elevation adjustment to get out to 200yds, even with the 20MOA base so you can get your 50yd Zero.

ar15barrels
09-09-2009, 11:41 PM
I think it's more the Indian rather than the bow....

I agree, but this indian prefers the semi auto.
Less time for wind to shift between shots.
Less disruption of running the bolt between shots.
More time to watch conditions and pick your time to shoot.

ar15barrels
09-09-2009, 11:43 PM
Go with the 18" bull barrel.
Build it on one of the stainless NDS receivers with the integral rail.
Get the one with a rail extended forward of the receiver if possible.

264charlie
09-10-2009, 12:33 AM
Ordered...

Barreld action includes a KID Supergrade Receiver, KID Two-Stage Trigger, KID Receiver Pins, KID Bolt Buffer, KID CNC Bolt, KID Extractor, KID Firing Pin, KID Match Barrel.

Left-hand revolution stock

Bushnell 6500

...Now I wait

buffybuster
09-10-2009, 9:30 AM
I agree, but this indian prefers the semi auto.
Less time for wind to shift between shots.
Less disruption of running the bolt between shots.
More time to watch conditions and pick your time to shoot.

All true points. Again it comes down to training or winning (but that's already been thrashed about).

Randall, whether you shot a semi or a bolt, I don't think it would have too much impact on your standings. Skills is skills and you got SKILLS. My friend, I tip my hat to you.

264charlie
09-17-2009, 5:36 PM
Well DROSd the 10/22 today... Funny thing is they had a Savage MkII BTVS (lefty) so I picked it up too.:)

bombadillo
09-17-2009, 10:27 PM
Ordered...

Barreld action includes a KID Supergrade Receiver, KID Two-Stage Trigger, KID Receiver Pins, KID Bolt Buffer, KID CNC Bolt, KID Extractor, KID Firing Pin, KID Match Barrel.

Left-hand revolution stock

Bushnell 6500

...Now I wait

What did the grand total come out to. I was looking at about 900 for everything but the stock shipped to my door. I already have a Fajen Legacy in synthetic with adjustable comb and length.

ar15barrels
09-17-2009, 10:54 PM
Well DROSd the 10/22 today... Funny thing is they had a Savage MkII BTVS (lefty) so I picked it up too.:)

I can fix up that bolt for you...

http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/savage22knob.jpg

Waldo
09-20-2009, 6:34 PM
I was looking at KIDD's website....looks like the barrels are on sale at 20% off
($160)

Not sure how long the sale is going to be run, though..

postal
09-20-2009, 8:27 PM
10/22s have no advantage over bolt guns unless time is a factor - which in my matches it is not. 10/22s basically need customizing out of the box to make them be competitive unless you buy the target model and, though some may disagree, they have a lot more jamming problems than bolt guns, especially in the fine dust of SoCal. The Savages come out of the box shooting well, add a EGW 20MOA rail and some good glass and you're ready to rock and roll.

Bill,

I would not disagree with your statements. I have a pair of 10/22's and savage bolt action accutrigger 308.

I've only had one minor issue with the 308 accutrigger, the adjustable spring moved over time- a drop of locktite on a toothpick fixed that.

However, when it comes to savage rimfire with accutrigger, I recall quite clearly Pascal and someone else both had problems with a trigger malfunction.

While it is clearly a very accurate and inexpensive rifle, it's use in competition due to this malfunction leaves me skeptical for now.

Until I rebarrel the 10/22 with a match grade green mountain for about $80, they have a significant accuracy advantage. However, I got the rifles niew for $150 on sale, and 80 for a new barrel puts my total rifle cost at $230 and should be ballpark to what the savage is capable of- with a heavy gritty crappy but always WORKS trigger.

I think in a short while we'll see if the savage is a viable entry level competition rifle, or if they continue to be prone to trigger problems.

Just want to point that out for people interested in buying a rifle for this game.

Waldo
09-20-2009, 8:28 PM
KIDD barrel and trigger on a standard 10/22 receiver...5 shot groups with Wolf ME and SK Match at 50 yards:
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm275/rowrdscat/IMG_1611.jpg
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm275/rowrdscat/IMG_1612.jpg

buffybuster
09-20-2009, 8:47 PM
Bill,

I would not disagree with your statements. I have a pair of 10/22's and savage bolt action accutrigger 308.

I've only had one minor issue with the 308 accutrigger, the adjustable spring moved over time- a drop of locktite on a toothpick fixed that.

However, when it comes to savage rimfire with accutrigger, I recall quite clearly Pascal and someone else both had problems with a trigger malfunction.

While it is clearly a very accurate and inexpensive rifle, it's use in competition due to this malfunction leaves me skeptical for now.

Until I rebarrel the 10/22 with a match grade green mountain for about $80, they have a significant accuracy advantage. However, I got the rifles niew for $150 on sale, and 80 for a new barrel puts my total rifle cost at $230 and should be ballpark to what the savage is capable of- with a heavy gritty crappy but always WORKS trigger.

I think in a short while we'll see if the savage is a viable entry level competition rifle, or if they continue to be prone to trigger problems.

Just want to point that out for people interested in buying a rifle for this game.

I have a Savage MKII and have taken apart and examined the RF accutrigger. Usually these trigger reset issues can be traced to adjusting the trigger to too light a pull. Out of the box, the RF accutrigger will only adjust down to ~3lbs before you start getting reset failures, especially if the bolt is run briskly (like in matches). To get anything lower, you have to begin polishing parts and re-balancing the spring pressures to minimize/eliminate the reset failure issue. With some dinking around you can get it down to about 1.5lbs and reliable in all conditions. If you run the bolt smoothly you can get the pull down under 1lb but with some reset failures. It's what it is, the accutrigger will never be equal to a tuned Kidd trigger but it can be made acceptable.

264charlie
09-21-2009, 12:08 PM
I can fix up that bolt for you...

http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/savage22knob.jpg

Sweet... I will schedule a time when I pick up the rifle from jail...

postal
09-22-2009, 4:06 PM
I have a Savage MKII and have taken apart and examined the RF accutrigger. Usually these trigger reset issues can be traced to adjusting the trigger to too light a pull. Out of the box, the RF accutrigger will only adjust down to ~3lbs before you start getting reset failures, especially if the bolt is run briskly (like in matches). To get anything lower, you have to begin polishing parts and re-balancing the spring pressures to minimize/eliminate the reset failure issue. With some dinking around you can get it down to about 1.5lbs and reliable in all conditions. If you run the bolt smoothly you can get the pull down under 1lb but with some reset failures. It's what it is, the accutrigger will never be equal to a tuned Kidd trigger but it can be made acceptable.

Very interesting. Thanks for the info. I do find it odd that it can only be brought down to about 3 lbs before reset failures can occur with rapid bolt manipulation.

My centerfire is down likely below 2 lbs (dont have a scale- but many other competitors with custom rifles and aftermarket triggers say my trigger is too light- or even "unsafe" because it's so light!) And slamming that bolt doesnt bug it a bit.

The sear/trigger reset would trip when the bolt closed when the tension spring worked its way loose- and that blade safety that blocks the sear caught it- but it worked its way down to around 1 lb or so. Tightening the spring back to about 1 3/4 lb or so -and a drop of locktite fixed it right up.

I know for centerfire there are at least 2 different "accutriggers" since they now have an ultralight bench gun version. I find it odd that the rimfire accutrigger is heavier than my standard centerfire accutrigger.

buffybuster
09-22-2009, 5:22 PM
Very interesting. Thanks for the info. I do find it odd that it can only be brought down to about 3 lbs before reset failures can occur with rapid bolt manipulation.

My centerfire is down likely below 2 lbs (dont have a scale- but many other competitors with custom rifles and aftermarket triggers say my trigger is too light- or even "unsafe" because it's so light!) And slamming that bolt doesnt bug it a bit.

The sear/trigger reset would trip when the bolt closed when the tension spring worked its way loose- and that blade safety that blocks the sear caught it- but it worked its way down to around 1 lb or so. Tightening the spring back to about 1 3/4 lb or so -and a drop of locktite fixed it right up.

I know for centerfire there are at least 2 different "accutriggers" since they now have an ultralight bench gun version. I find it odd that the rimfire accutrigger is heavier than my standard centerfire accutrigger.


The RF accutrigger and CF accutrigger, though may look alike, are entirely different designs. It would be nice if Savage had a "target" MKII trigger that would adjust down to 6oz and still be reliable.

QEU
09-23-2009, 3:21 PM
I remember when I first got my Kidd trigger for my 10/22 and told my dad that it cost more than the rifle itself, he shrugged and said that didn't make any sense. After 10 mins at the range, he wanted one too. I have a 20" Green Mnt fluted sporter on mine and when I see someone at the range plinking, I always let them try it out...

ar15barrels
09-23-2009, 3:22 PM
After 10 mins at the range, he wanted one too.

Did you tell him that did not make any sense?

Rimfire Junky
09-23-2009, 4:23 PM
Did you tell him that did not make any sense?

I get funny looks from folks I know that don't shoot much when I tell them I put a $400 scope, a $180 bbl, a $100 stock and $275 worth of trigger group/bolt parts on a receiver I bought for $50.

"But it's still just a .22, right?"

Btango05
09-24-2009, 9:05 PM
My current build:

VQ SS Receiver (https://www.volquartsen.com/products/887-stainless-steel-replacement-receiver-picatinny): $470 out the door
Kidd Completion Kit (http://coolguyguns.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=12&products_id=13): with the cocking assembly $630.00 shipped
Anschultz Thumbhole Ruger Stock (http://www.stockysstocks.com/servlet/the-416/Ruger-1022-10-fdsh-22-thumbhole/Detail): $185 shipped

$1285 total so far and no scope:confused:
The wife is gonna kill me!!!!

I'm hearing good things about the Bushnell 4200 Elite...but at $520 I'm a little strapped for cash at this point. I always try to apply the "buy expensive... cry once, by cheap....cry everyday." philosophy but I have to draw a line somewhere. How does the 3200 measure up? I see alot of Mueller Eradicators...those seem to be popular but can I get more from the Bushnell?

postal
10-02-2009, 8:34 PM
My current build:

VQ SS Receiver (https://www.volquartsen.com/products/887-stainless-steel-replacement-receiver-picatinny): $470 out the door
Kidd Completion Kit (http://coolguyguns.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=12&products_id=13): with the cocking assembly $630.00 shipped
Anschultz Thumbhole Ruger Stock (http://www.stockysstocks.com/servlet/the-416/Ruger-1022-10-fdsh-22-thumbhole/Detail): $185 shipped

$1285 total so far and no scope:confused:
The wife is gonna kill me!!!!

I'm hearing good things about the Bushnell 4200 Elite...but at $520 I'm a little strapped for cash at this point. I always try to apply the "buy expensive... cry once, by cheap....cry everyday." philosophy but I have to draw a line somewhere. How does the 3200 measure up? I see alot of Mueller Eradicators...those seem to be popular but can I get more from the Bushnell?


Nikon "BUCKMASTER" is a great product for the money. About $200 for 4.5-14x40 mildot. Very happy with mine though for a 22 it might not focus down to as short a range as you wish. 50yds is no problem but 25 starts to blur. That is the advantage of most "22" scopes- is the ability to focus down to 25 yds. An accurate rifle like that.... who wants to shoot 25 yds? Otherwise. buckmasters are a great bang for the buck.

264charlie
10-08-2009, 11:39 PM
Picked them up today... the KIDD in nice.