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mikehaas
09-08-2009, 1:27 AM
NRA Members' Councils of California
http://calnra.com/skin/mclogoclr2.gif (http://calnra.com)
CALNRA: AB962 Ammo Sales Ban Heavily Amended on 9/4
9/8/2009 1:15 AM - PLEASE DISTRIBUTE WIDELY

Update - AB962 Handgun Ammo Sales Registration - Sales Ban

The bill was drastically amended on Friday, 9/4/2009. Some of the provisions deleted:

1. The new license for handgun Ammo Dealers
2. Ban on the transfer of more than 50 rounds of handgun ammo between private persons
3. Use of the DROS Fee (background Check Fees) monies for implementation of the Program

NRA and CRPA remain opposed to the bill. It still requires the:

1. Registration and finger printing of handgun Ammo Purchasers
2. Mandatory storage / Display requirements for Ammo Dealers
3. Ban on the Sale of Handgun Ammo through the Internet or mail Order

Stay tuned to...
http://calnra.com/legs.shtml?year=2009&summary=ab962
...for more information. The bill can come up for a vote on Wednesday, 9/9/2009. If it passes the Senate it must go back to the Assembly for a final Vote. The Legislative Session ends on Friday, 9/11/2009.

Updates and contact tools available at:
http://calnra.com/legs.shtml?year=2009&summary=ab962

Stop to Cow Palace Gun Show Ban!
http://calnra.com/legs.shtml?year=2009&summary=sb585

bwiese
09-08-2009, 1:51 AM
Thanks, Mike.

ALL: even though somewhat moderated, THIS PROPOSED LAW IS THE CAMEL'S NOSE UNDER THE TENT TO FURTHER NONSENSICAL AMMO REGULATIONS.

Please remember that once something becomes law, no matter how trivial, it's much more readily amendable in future legislation: the subsequent legislation is seen as minor increments by many, even fairly neutral-to-guns parties. Look what happened with the 'safe handgun' law - first it was just a drop test and a Roster, then it was safeties and LCIs, and finally they glued in microstamping.

DON'T LET THEM SLIP IN A FRAMEWORK FOR PATCHING IN FUTURE AMMO LEGISLATION!!! It's an attack on FFLs and an attack on ammo pricing for the everyday shooter.

If there were ever a time to spend your cell minutes, and some time faxing and emailing, it's NOW. EVERYONE'S HELP IS NEEDED.

Hell, I'll prob have $70 extra cellphone bill this month. If everyone just makes a few calls and faxes etc WE CAN KILL THIS.

We have victory in our sights, however, since they're trying to amend it to supposedly make it more passable. Let your representatives know you say NO to camel's-nose-incrementalism.

IMHO it sounds like they're trying to split the likely compromiser gun orgs away from the stance NRA+CRPA.
Let's hope these other groups don't get baited.

jeffsenpai
09-08-2009, 1:58 AM
As long as it bans mail order ammo, we should all be against it.

Gh0sT
09-08-2009, 3:01 AM
3. Ban on the Sale of Handgun Ammo through the Internet or mail Order

This is a BIG WTF. Seriously, more stupid laws for the law abiding.

cousinkix1953
09-08-2009, 6:42 AM
As long as it bans mail order ammo, we should all be against it.
And for a good reason too. The law does NOT require the PRK stores to stockpile ammo in all calibers. Most stores only have the common stuff. Your right to shoot your Nambu, Makarov, Nagant revolver etc becomes merely just a dream. Imagine the blank stares that you'll get asking for some 9mm Largo at WalMart.

I know of one place up around Sacramento which hase some this oddball ammo; but it isn't much help if somebody lives hundreds of miles away. They can't fingerprint a customer like a criminal on the telephone; so they won't be shipping ammo to so-Cal buyers either.

Most of the stores aren't stocking .357 or .44 AutoMag any more either. When's the last time that you saw a box of commercially loaded Ruger .357 Maximum, that was popular in the 80s? So much for your 2nd amendment rights in this case too.

If ammo for a legally owned handgun becomes a hassle to obtain; then maybe another lawsuit and a second Heller decision is in order down the road...

trashman
09-08-2009, 7:10 AM
Time to light up the phones....the mail-order ban really would be crushing folks.

--Neill

glockman19
09-08-2009, 7:28 AM
3. Ban on the Sale of Handgun Ammo through the Internet or mail Order
This is a BIG WTF. Seriously, more stupid laws for the law abiding.

This CLEARLY, violates the INTERSTATE COMMERCE CLAUSE. I can't see the Gov. signing this.

...also...doesn't this have th go back to the assembly and through committee again now that it's been amended?

trashman
09-08-2009, 7:42 AM
If you think the line at the Miwall booth is bad now, just imagine what it will be like at every gun show if this bill becomes law.

We need to beat this one back hard folks!

--Neill

obeygiant
09-08-2009, 8:07 AM
AB 962 is on Second Reading. It can be taken up for a Vote on Third Reading only.

Barring a rule waiver to move up the second reading file to Third reading immediately, this bill will be eligible to be heard on Wednesday.


2nd Reading only today

A.B. No. 962-De Leon et al. (Cedillo)
An act relating to ammunition.
Vote required: 21
2009
Jun. 3-Read third time, passed, and to Senate. (Ayes 42. Noes 31. Page
2069.)
Jun. 4-In Senate. Read first time. To Com. on RLS. for assignment.
Jun. 18-Referred to Com. on PUB. S.
Jun. 22-From committee chair, with author's amendments: Amend, and
re-refer to committee. Read second time, amended, and re-re-
ferred to Com. on PUB. S.
Jun. 29-In committee: Hearing postponed by committee.
Jul. 1-In committee: Hearing postponed by committee.
Jul. 8-From committee: Do pass, and re-refer to Com. on APPR. Re-
referred. (Ayes 4. Noes 3.) (July 7).
Jul. 23-Joint Rule 62(a) suspended.
Aug. 31-From committee: Do pass. (Ayes 7. Noes 5.) (August 27).
(received by desk August 28, 2009 pursuant to JR61(a)(11))
Sept. 1-Read second time. To third reading.
Sept. 3-Passed on file.
Sept. 4-Read third time. Amended. To second reading.

formula502
09-08-2009, 10:21 AM
So it looks like they temporarily amended to use DROS fees just for the purposes of getting it past the senate Finance committee?

Now it's again funded by the state's general-fund? Is that fatal flaw now back in?

OR

Does dropping the license requirement for vendors slash the costs of implementing this making it "not-so-bad" from a pure budget perspective?

KylaGWolf
09-08-2009, 10:30 AM
Formula in otherwords they claim to raid one fund to get it past the finance committee then struck the change to get it through the senate. There is no way to make this bill less bad regardless. This is a bad zombie bill that refuses to die. The fact this bill has been through the process at least seven times and failed everytime up till now should say something. I just hope the members here on Calguns and NRA and SAF have been lighting up the phone lines and fax lines saying just how wrong this bill is.

KylaGWolf
09-08-2009, 10:32 AM
This CLEARLY, violates the INTERSTATE COMMERCE CLAUSE. I can't see the Gov. signing this.

...also...doesn't this have th go back to the assembly and through committee again now that it's been amended?

Since when does our Government care about interstate commerce laws.

formula502
09-08-2009, 10:59 AM
Thanks Kyla.

Please do not take my "not-so-bad" comment the wrong way. I'm just trying to wrap my head around their strategies for chipping away at our arguments in an attempt to make this more palatable for fence-sitters.

Why wouldn't they leave the DROS funding in for the full senate vote?

Is it b/c they killed the dealer license requirement making the bill much cheaper to implement and thereby taking the funding arguments mostly off the table?

In the current climate, the funding arguments are a fantastic card to play. If this thing is still expensive AND coming from the general fund, we have good leverage w/ the Governor.

"Look at this dirty-pool that was used to skirt the Finance committee! This is exactly what you've been admonishing against, Governor. What message would it send to sign this bill (which is bad to begin with) after all this?"

Of course this thing is ALL KINDS of wrong, I'm just trying to figure out if one of our hole cards is still playable.

xxG3xx
09-08-2009, 11:15 AM
This bill is stupid and the only point to this bill is to bring down the people that obey the laws...If gang members want guns and ammo they will get them without the 10 day wait or the limit to how many bullets they buy. The damage has been done as far as gang crime goes and its gonna still happen no matter what happens with this bill. The bill is hurting the good people and that's wrong!

Librarian
09-08-2009, 11:17 AM
This CLEARLY, violates the INTERSTATE COMMERCE CLAUSE. I can't see the Gov. signing this.

...also...doesn't this have th go back to the assembly and through committee again now that it's been amended?

I believe it would have to go back to the Assembly for concurrence in the Senate amendments.

Better it doesn't get through the Senate at all.

bwiese
09-08-2009, 3:46 PM
Are you calling and emailing and faxing?

LIGHT UP THOSE PHONES, BABY!

HowardW56
09-08-2009, 4:05 PM
Are you calling and emailing and faxing?

LIGHT UP THOSE PHONES, BABY!

E-mails sent.... Lots of e-mails....

unusedusername
09-08-2009, 4:50 PM
Are you calling and emailing and faxing?

LIGHT UP THOSE PHONES, BABY!

I've got a fax machine churning them out...

Legasat
09-08-2009, 5:09 PM
Emails and faxes sent to ALL Senators!

mfmayes49
09-08-2009, 5:14 PM
I hope it doesn't pass, but since this is a socialist state, it does have a good chance of becoming law. I called my state senator for all the good it will do. I hope I'm proved wrong. This is not gun control, it's people control.

KylaGWolf
09-08-2009, 7:56 PM
Thanks Kyla.

Please do not take my "not-so-bad" comment the wrong way. I'm just trying to wrap my head around their strategies for chipping away at our arguments in an attempt to make this more palatable for fence-sitters.

Why wouldn't they leave the DROS funding in for the full senate vote?

Is it b/c they killed the dealer license requirement making the bill much cheaper to implement and thereby taking the funding arguments mostly off the table?

In the current climate, the funding arguments are a fantastic card to play. If this thing is still expensive AND coming from the general fund, we have good leverage w/ the Governor.

"Look at this dirty-pool that was used to skirt the Finance committee! This is exactly what you've been admonishing against, Governor. What message would it send to sign this bill (which is bad to begin with) after all this?"

Of course this thing is ALL KINDS of wrong, I'm just trying to figure out if one of our hole cards is still playable.

I didn't take it wrong so no worries :). As to your question yes our cards are still playable. The question is that hand a winning one...that is the million dollar question. I am hoping they don't pass this bill but worse case I say we start calling the governers office, faxing, emailing and snail mail it till he gets the message this bill is a bad idea and best to veto it.

barrykay
09-08-2009, 10:06 PM
As long as it bans mail order ammo, we should all be against it.

I doubt you will find any Ca. Firearms/Ammo retailers against this bill. I know if I were a retailer of ammo I would be in favor of the not having to compete with Internet sales:)

dfletcher
09-08-2009, 10:24 PM
Considering that pretty much any centerfire cartridge can be used in the T/C Encore handgun, I'd expect that on line vendors would stop shipping pretty much all ammo to California, not just "handgun" calibers like 38 Special, 45 ACP, etc. Is there even a definition of handgun ammo in the bill?

LAWABIDINGCITIZEN
09-08-2009, 10:24 PM
Are you calling and emailing and faxing?

LIGHT UP THOSE PHONES, BABY!

FAXes sent to assemblymember and senator. (I like sending a FAX because they have to do physically something with it. )


Arnold is next.

dantodd
09-08-2009, 10:25 PM
This CLEARLY, violates the INTERSTATE COMMERCE CLAUSE.

I'm sure the Obama administration will make sure your rights are protected and pursue this if it passes. :rolleyes:

Trench Broom
09-08-2009, 11:13 PM
Just sent off my e-mail blast! :D

cousinkix1953
09-08-2009, 11:49 PM
A.B. No. 962-De Leon et al. (Cedillo)
An act relating to ammunition.
Vote required: 21
2009
Jun. 3-Read third time, passed, and to Senate. (Ayes 42. Noes 31. Page
2069.)
Jun. 4-In Senate. Read first time. To Com. on RLS. for assignment.
Jun. 18-Referred to Com. on PUB. S.
Jun. 22-From committee chair, with author's amendments: Amend, and
re-refer to committee. Read second time, amended, and re-re-
ferred to Com. on PUB. S.
Jun. 29-In committee: Hearing postponed by committee.
Jul. 1-In committee: Hearing postponed by committee.
Jul. 8-From committee: Do pass, and re-refer to Com. on APPR. Re-
referred. (Ayes 4. Noes 3.) (July 7).
Jul. 23-Joint Rule 62(a) suspended.
Aug. 31-From committee: Do pass. (Ayes 7. Noes 5.) (August 27).
(received by desk August 28, 2009 pursuant to JR61(a)(11))
Sept. 1-Read second time. To third reading.
Sept. 3-Passed on file.
Sept. 4-Read third time. Amended. To second reading.

Wow! This POS is the brainchild of a moron who beat us to death with Kommiefornia drivers licenses bills for illegal aliens that were defeated several times. Never mind that the DMV's plastic cards can be used for voter registration fraud and illegal purchases of firearms and ammunition in the stores, by individuals not allowed to posess guns under a federal law.

Don't these stupid f---- ever read the form #4473s? This alone should have been the kiss of death for a crackpot license scheme.

AB 962 is a case of "here we go again". How many times have I said, "that candidates supported by the Brady Bunch are the first ones to make a mockery of existing gun control laws? Nice to know this kind of BS is supported by corrupt anti-gun police chief in our crime infested sanctuary cities. They won't call ICE if an illegal alien gang banger is caught with a banned assault rifle...

POLICESTATE
09-09-2009, 12:12 AM
I don't see why I should have to be fingerprinted for buying ammo, I don't get fingerprinted for buying beer, for all they know I've been passing out free bottles to preschoolers for years!

It's insulting, and I need to find a fax machine tomorrow.

Ifticar
09-09-2009, 12:51 AM
Considering that pretty much any centerfire cartridge can be used in the T/C Encore handgun, I'd expect that on line vendors would stop shipping pretty much all ammo to California, not just "handgun" calibers like 38 Special, 45 ACP, etc. Is there even a definition of handgun ammo in the bill?

That is a pessimistic result. The optimistic result is the the buyer certifies that the ammo is to be used in a long gun. This is what is currently done with .22LR.

Theseus
09-09-2009, 1:16 AM
I don't see why I should have to be fingerprinted for buying ammo, I don't get fingerprinted for buying beer, for all they know I've been passing out free bottles to preschoolers for years!

It's insulting, and I need to find a fax machine tomorrow.

But beer doesn't kill other people!






Oh, wait. . .

steelrain82
09-09-2009, 1:31 AM
you know i feel like i cant participate because i wouldnt know what to say or who to say it to. i feel like those people that talk the talk but cant walk the walk. and thats only because i dont understand even a fraction of the stuff most people mention. im just so new to the gun community as far as being involved with laws and stuff. but i do know that this bill is garbage. i sure dont want to have to pay $40 for 20 rds of .303 when i can get 60 rds of prvi for the same price

cousinkix1953
09-09-2009, 3:33 AM
But beer doesn't kill other people!

Oh, wait. . .
Neither do guns. When is the last time that you saw an unoccupied car (with empty beer cans on the floorboards) driving itself and running somebody over?

People kill other people, when they drive dunk and misuse firearms...

woodsman
09-09-2009, 7:33 AM
Lets not get complacent. Keep the contacts going and spread the word.

bwiese
09-09-2009, 9:59 AM
PLEASE KEEP THE HEAT ON. KEEP "DIALLING FOR FREEDOM".

If you can dial for different districts' reps and can answer intelligently when they question where you live (i.e, pick a locale that legislator actually represents) you can really help.

Steelrain: you don't have to say much, other than being respectful and say, "I oppose AB962 and don't want you to vote for it. It's unnecessary and jus hassles sportsmen. I also note the Attorney General has not issused a recommnedation on this bill."

IGOTDIRT4U
09-09-2009, 10:02 AM
PLEASE KEEP THE HEAT ON. KEEP "DIALLING FOR FREEDOM".

If you can dial for different districts' reps and can answer intelligently when they question where you live (i.e, pick a locale that legislator actually represents) you can really help.

Steelrain: you don't have to say much, other than being respectful and say, "I oppose AB962 and don't want you to vote for it. It's unnecessary and jus hassles sportsmen. I also note the Attorney General has not issused a recommnedation on this bill."

Maybe that's just the thing we need; JB's condemnation of this bill. After all, wouldn't the program be run through his dept? His budget? His loss of potential 2A voters? (for those of us that support him for possible Gov)

nick
09-09-2009, 7:13 PM
Question. I called, faxed, and sent emails to all assemblymembers and all senators, as well as the Governor's office. Would it help or hurt if I do it again (and again :43:)?

bwiese
09-09-2009, 7:17 PM
Question. I called, faxed, and sent emails to all assemblymembers and all senators, as well as the Governor's office. Would it help or hurt if I do it again (and again :43:)?

RINSE, LATHER & REPEAT!!

It will not hurt and will only help.

cousinkix1953
09-09-2009, 7:46 PM
PLEASE KEEP THE HEAT ON. KEEP "DIALLING FOR FREEDOM".

If you can dial for different districts' reps and can answer intelligently when they question where you live (i.e, pick a locale that legislator actually represents) you can really help.

Steelrain: you don't have to say much, other than being respectful and say, "I oppose AB962 and don't want you to vote for it. It's unnecessary and jus hassles sportsmen. I also note the Attorney General has not issused a recommnedation on this bill."
If the mass media wasn't so lame, they would ask Jerry Brown about this too. Maybe he recognizes some of the problems we mention here too. What good is your 2nd Amendment rights, if the local stores don't stock ammo for your old gun and you can't buy it on the internet either?

mmartin
09-09-2009, 8:11 PM
so I one-clicked and sent email. I got several replies of this variety: "Due to the overwhelming volume of e-mails I receive each day, I ask that you visit my website to submit your comments"
does anyone know if that means my email went in the trash and will only get read if I go to the website? or do they get seen anyway?
thx, megan

Librarian
09-09-2009, 9:33 PM
so I one-clicked and sent email. I got several replies of this variety: "Due to the overwhelming volume of e-mails I receive each day, I ask that you visit my website to submit your comments"
does anyone know if that means my email went in the trash and will only get read if I go to the website? or do they get seen anyway?
thx, megan

Depends on whether the staff (whether or not as directed by the Elect) agree with your position expressed.

If they agree, they count it. If they do not agree, most seem to be less than accurately reported.

Now and again one of the Elect actually takes Real Responsibility™ and listens to both sides, but it is not so common as it should be. IMHO.

obeygiant
09-09-2009, 9:47 PM
Just a reminder for those sending emails out.

The email address for Senator Gil Cedillo is no longer valid but anyone who would like to contact him via email may do so here (http://legplcms01.lc.ca.gov/PublicLCMS/ContactPopup.aspx?district=SD22) just remember to put in a zip code that is within his district or it will not accept the email. the one I used was the zip for his local office which is 90014

gewgaw
09-09-2009, 11:24 PM
Did the idiots who wrote this POS bill factor in the legal fees for the instant Constitutional challenges that are going to be brought against it? 2A, interstate commerce clause, etc. etc.

I wish they would take any legal fees the State would spend to defend crap laws like this directly from the people who wrote the damn things. Then maybe they'd stop writing stupid laws.

POLICESTATE
09-09-2009, 11:26 PM
What district is the DeLeon guy from anyway?

obeygiant
09-09-2009, 11:37 PM
What district is the DeLeon guy from anyway?

45th district.

Angelino Heights, Atwater Village, Chinatown, Cypress Park, City Terrace, Echo Park, El Sereno, Elysian Valley, Glassell Park, Highland Park, Historic Filipinotown, Hollywood, Ramona Gardens, Silverlake, Temple-Beverly & Thai Town

nick
09-10-2009, 12:44 AM
What district is the DeLeon guy from anyway?

45th. Silverlake, Atwater, and other hippie and gangbanger areas. He serves both well.

mikehaas
09-10-2009, 11:40 AM
FAXes sent to assemblymember and senator. (I like sending a FAX because they have to do physically something with it. )


Arnold is next.
Express yourself. You can still send emails and make phone calls...

mikehaas
09-10-2009, 11:45 AM
you know i feel like i cant participate because i wouldnt know what to say or who to say it to...

How about simply "VOTE NO ON AB 962" - they're too arrogant to care about much else we say anyway. (So don't waste time on tomes about the Second Amendment. Their eyes glaze over as soon as you mention "Constitution".)

As far as who to say it to...
http://calnra.com/legs.shtml#oneclick
...we provide the email addresses and they go to every email-available lawmaker that can vote on any given issue.

mikehaas
09-10-2009, 12:23 PM
From Ed at the capitol:
The Senate has gone on lunch break until 1:30 with no action on AB962

Keep up the pressure !!
All I can add is:
http://calnra.com/legs.shtml?year=2009&summary=ab962

shookatash
09-10-2009, 12:55 PM
emailed twice, good lookin' out!

Dark Paladin
09-10-2009, 1:16 PM
Emailed again. Hopefully all of our efforts will amount to something.

bwiese
09-10-2009, 1:16 PM
Emailed again. Hopefully all of our efforts will amount to something.

It's worked before.

It can readily work again.

Keep it up!

Scout106
09-10-2009, 1:48 PM
Just emailed again.

Legasat
09-10-2009, 1:59 PM
Me too. Just emailed & faxed.

OlderThanDirt
09-10-2009, 3:05 PM
Did my daily e-mails and calls. Very depressing having a couple of Socialists representing me in the Senate and Assembly.

nick
09-10-2009, 3:43 PM
Did my daily e-mails and calls. Very depressing having a couple of Socialists representing me in the Senate and Assembly.

You think you got it bad? Henry Waxman is "my" congressman.

cousinkix1953
09-10-2009, 3:46 PM
Just a reminder for those sending emails out.
Didn't he run for Congress in 2008?

cousinkix1953
09-10-2009, 3:50 PM
You think you got it bad? Henry Waxman is "my" congressman.
Waxman looks like the Extra Terrestrial in the movie ET! Thhey must have been seperated at birth...

M9Man
09-10-2009, 5:27 PM
I got a reply from the Governator :83:after emailing him about 962 during the poll support post.

Thank you for writing me about Assembly Bill 962. I appreciate your suggestions on proposed legislation affecting our state.

I generally do not take a position on legislation until a bill has reached my desk because it can change significantly from the time it is introduced until the time it is finalized. For the current session, the California Legislature has until September 11, 2009 to pass legislation, and I have until October 11, 2009 to sign or veto proposed bills.

You may continue to follow this and any other bill under consideration by lawmakers at the Official California Legislative website: www.leginfo.ca.gov. You may also read my legislative messages at www.gov.ca.gov.

Again, I appreciate your interest in California's future. An informed and engaged public is important for effective government in our state.

Sincerely,


Arnold Schwarzenegger

curtisfong
09-10-2009, 5:37 PM
I got a reply from the Governator :83:after emailing him about 962 during the poll support post.

Ironically, perhaps if the Bill was provably more costly (i.e. got sent to Arnold without all the amendments) it would have had a higher chance of being vetoed?

Rem222
09-10-2009, 6:54 PM
Did my daily e-mails and calls. Very depressing having a couple of Socialists representing me in the Senate and Assembly.

You must live in Concord also....

NovaTodd
09-10-2009, 7:02 PM
E-mailed the assembly members courtesy of the list provided by Obeygiant.
Went through the Governor's page and got the canned response.
Will keep it up for tomorrow.

obeygiant
09-10-2009, 7:47 PM
I got a reply from the Governator :83:after emailing him about 962 during the poll support post.

I got the same reply. At least he doesn't say to use his web form to contact him because of the overwhelming amount of email he receives.

KylaGWolf
09-10-2009, 9:04 PM
Well my faxing things are out. My printer/fax power supply bit the dust tonight. So until I get a new one there won't be any faxes from my house. But I did email got the typical thank you for your email. Blech.

steelrain82
09-10-2009, 9:15 PM
yeah my first activist emails sent out today. I feel like a true calgunner now. I got all the same email crap except one from sen. cox. he sent back a long list of anti-bills saying he opposes them for whatever reasons or that he voted against it.

bodger
09-10-2009, 9:16 PM
I shall begin faxing and e-mailing Ahnohld tomorrow.

My representative is Mike Feuer, "Mr. Microstamp". A lot of good it did me to try to influence him to vote no on AB962.

Nobody will ever convince me that this nancyboy Feuer will ever budge from his position on guns.

obeygiant
09-10-2009, 9:29 PM
Well my faxing things are out. My printer/fax power supply bit the dust tonight. So until I get a new one there won't be any faxes from my house. But I did email got the typical thank you for your email. Blech.

There is always gotfreefax.com (http://www.gotfreefax.com/) or freedomspeaks.com (http://www.freedomspeaks.com) if you still would like to send them.

GotFreeFax


* Truly FREE!
* No Ad free fax cover page
* 3 pages per fax maximum
* 2 free faxes per day maximum


Freedomspeaks

FREEDOMSPEAKS.COM is the only completely non-partisan political social network that allows its members to write letters to their publicly elected officials. With the click of a mouse, a single letter can be delivered via both email and fax to one or all of the public officials you select! We currently have data for Federal, State, County & City officials, including their addresses, telephones, faxes, emails and websites. It's time for you to speak out and be heard America - with FREEDOMSPEAKS.COM, it's easy!

sd_shooter
09-10-2009, 10:29 PM
Email sent!

cousinkix1953
09-11-2009, 12:16 AM
Lets not get complacent. Keep the contacts going and spread the word.
I agree; but one little twit (who's bragging about buying his first gun this week) went off, at my suggestion that he email his reps in Sacramento. He was complaining that nobody had any .22 LR ammo for his new toy on Thursday afternoon. This overgrown teenager is so damn sure that AB 962 will not pass before midnight on Friday 9/11/09, that he's not gonna bother. Somebody is gonna be SOL if he's wrong!

The Cow Palace gun show ban is on Arnold's desk according to KTVU news. I suggested that he ban those "canned music" raves and kick out the drug dealers instead. The feds raided that state owned facility last Memorial Day weekend and arrested several losers. It doesn't surprise me that this bill was sponsored by San Francisco's anti-gun pothead senator, who would rather legal marijuana instead...

mmartin
09-11-2009, 2:22 PM
In my email at 1.46 pm today
From Senator Cox:
After a push by the democratic leadership in the State Senate, Assembly Bill 962 and Senate Bill 585 passed yesterday afternoon with the bare-minimum 21 votes. No member of the Senate Republican Caucus voted to pass either bill.

Assembly Bill 962 (De Leon), a bill relating to ammunition, is similar to Assembly Bill 2062 (2008) and Assembly Bill 362 (2007) by the same author. AB 962 passed the full Assembly on June 3 by a vote of 42-31 and was passed by the Senate on September 10 by a vote of 21 to 18. The bill will return to the Assembly for a concurrence vote.

AB 962 is a far-reaching measure which implements extensive reporting and record-keeping requirements for all licensed gun dealers who sell handgun ammunition. The bill also requires handgun ammunition sales to occur in face-to-face transactions, effectively prohibiting internet sales to residents of California. The requirements listed in this measure are impractical and would do more to inconvenience lawful gun owners more than deter criminals. Prior versions of the bill outlawed the transfer of more than 50 rounds of handgun ammunition in a month; however, that provision was removed from the final version of the bill. I voted against AB 962 when it came before me.

Senate Bill 585 (Leno), a bill which would prohibit firearms sales at the Cow Palace in San Francisco. The language in SB 585 is virtually identical to the final language contained in Assembly Bill 2498 (Leno) from the 2007-08 legislative session and would prohibit firearms sales at the Cow Palace in San Francisco.

SB 585 is an effort to allow the City and/or County of San Francisco to discriminate against legitimate gun show participants and vendors who must comply with stringent state regulations affecting licensing, sales, background checks, liability and other provisions of state law governing gun shows, although the property in question is owned by the state, not the county. SB 585 passed from the Assembly on September 9 by a vote of 45 to 33, and passed from the Senate on September 10 by a vote of 21 to 18. I voted against this bill when it came before me.

Both of these bills will likely be headed to the Governor’s desk for either his signature or veto. It is my recommendation that you contact Governor Schwarzenegger’s office to express your displeasure with these two measures. He can be reached at 916-445-2841.

My commitment to protecting the second amendment rights of law-abiding citizens remains strong. I continue to oppose legislation that will negatively impact gun rights in the State of California.

Sincerely,

DAVE COX
Senator, First District

motorhead
09-11-2009, 2:27 PM
it still has to get through the assembly today because it was amended. last (SLIM) CHANCE TO KILL IT. i can't find status.

dakobster81
09-11-2009, 2:33 PM
i emailed the gov a little while back and brought up this bill. I dont think I have the email anymore but basically what is said is that he doesnt even look at these bills until they get to his desk because they can change so much in the senate. he also said that he would veto bills which would add to state spending. so we will see...

liquidmx
09-11-2009, 2:36 PM
Anyone else get this:

After a push by the democratic leadership in the State Senate, Assembly
Bill 962 and Senate Bill 585 passed yesterday afternoon with the
bare-minimum 21 votes. No member of the Senate Republican Caucus voted
to pass either bill.

Assembly Bill 962 (De Leon), a bill relating to ammunition, is similar
to Assembly Bill 2062 (2008) and Assembly Bill 362 (2007) by the same
author. AB 962 passed the full Assembly on June 3 by a vote of 42-31
and was passed by the Senate on September 10 by a vote of 21 to 18. The
bill will return to the Assembly for a concurrence vote.

AB 962 is a far-reaching measure which implements extensive reporting
and record-keeping requirements for all licensed gun dealers who sell
handgun ammunition. The bill also requires handgun ammunition sales to
occur in face-to-face transactions, effectively prohibiting internet
sales to residents of California. The requirements listed in this
measure are impractical and would do more to inconvenience lawful gun
owners more than deter criminals. Prior versions of the bill outlawed
the transfer of more than 50 rounds of handgun ammunition in a month;
however, that provision was removed from the final version of the bill.
I voted against AB 962 when it came before me.

Senate Bill 585 (Leno), a bill which would prohibit firearms sales at
the Cow Palace in San Francisco. The language in SB 585 is virtually
identical to the final language contained in Assembly Bill 2498 (Leno)
from the 2007-08 legislative session and would prohibit firearms sales
at the Cow Palace in San Francisco.

SB 585 is an effort to allow the City and/or County of San Francisco to
discriminate against legitimate gun show participants and vendors who
must comply with stringent state regulations affecting licensing, sales,
background checks, liability and other provisions of state law governing
gun shows, although the property in question is owned by the state, not
the county. SB 585 passed from the Assembly on September 9 by a vote of
45 to 33, and passed from the Senate on September 10 by a vote of 21 to
18. I voted against this bill when it came before me.

Both of these bills will likely be headed to the Governor's desk for
either his signature or veto. It is my recommendation that you contact
Governor Schwarzenegger's office to express your displeasure with these
two measures. He can be reached at 916-445-2841.

My commitment to protecting the second amendment rights of law-abiding
citizens remains strong. I continue to oppose legislation that will
negatively impact gun rights in the State of California.

Sincerely,

DAVE COX
Senator, First District

mmartin
09-11-2009, 2:45 PM
in case you'd like to contact the gov on this:

http://gov.ca.gov/interact#contact

Governor's Office:
Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
State Capitol Building
Sacramento, CA 95814
Phone: 916-445-2841
Fax: 916-558-3160 ( new number )
District Offices:
Fresno Office
2550 Mariposa Mall #3013
Fresno, CA 93721
Phone: 559-477-1804
Fax: 559-445-5328
Los Angeles Office
300 South Spring Street
Suite 16701
Los Angeles, CA 90013
Phone: 213-897-0322
Fax: 213-897-0319
Riverside Office
3737 Main Street #201
Riverside, CA 92501
Phone: 951-680-6860
Fax: 951-680-6863
San Diego Office
1350 Front Street
Suite 6054
San Diego, CA 92101
Phone: 619-525-4641
Fax: 619-525-4640
San Francisco Office
455 Golden Gate Avenue
Suite 14000
San Francisco, CA 94102
Phone: 415-703-2218
Fax: 415-703-2803
Washington D.C. Office
134 Hall of the States
444 North Capitol Street NW
Washington D.C. 20001
Phone: 202-624-5270
Fax: 202-624-5280

bodger
09-11-2009, 2:54 PM
i emailed the gov a little while back and brought up this bill. I dont think I have the email anymore but basically what is said is that he doesnt even look at these bills until they get to his desk because they can change so much in the senate. he also said that he would veto bills which would add to state spending. so we will see...


He signed the absurd AB1471 into law. The one that little puke Feurer "authored".

Arnie will sign this canard as well. Just watch him.

If it's gun control, it's good, right? Think of the children!!

This state is really hard up for leadership.

motorhead
09-11-2009, 4:40 PM
anyone know the status in the assembly. as i posted earlier, the senate passage (letter) isn't the last step. there must be another vote in the assembly. has to happen today. i couldn't find anything for today's agenda at all.

motorhead
09-11-2009, 4:56 PM
this is today's calender. couldn't find it on unfinished business/concurrence votes.
ftp://leginfo.public.ca.gov/pub/dailyfile/asm/assembly_floor

10001110101
09-11-2009, 6:34 PM
It passed, http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=221400

ac427cpe
09-11-2009, 6:55 PM
so... no internet or mail order sales. what about over the phone?

Librarian
09-11-2009, 8:10 PM
so... no internet or mail order sales. what about over the phone?

You know a way to verify ID over the phone? Collect a fingerprint?

bodger
09-11-2009, 8:12 PM
I gotta believe phone orders would be banned as well.
I don't know how they intend to enforce this, check every UPS package?

It won't matter anyway. When out of state ammo vendors get a whiff of this bill, they'll stop selling to CA out of fear of prosecution or losing whatever license is currently required to sell ammo.

I can't believe these idiots in Sac are taking our money to pay their salaries and they sit and twiddle around with crap legislation like this.

It's disgraceful. I am embarrassed to have lived in this nanny-azz sate for 30 years.

freonr22
09-11-2009, 8:12 PM
and we sit here and take it

Maestro Pistolero
09-11-2009, 9:05 PM
I would love to see the entire firearms industry to begin boycotting LE in the State of CA. Only sell to civilians until they stop infringing on rights.

ac427cpe
09-11-2009, 9:52 PM
You know a way to verify ID over the phone? Collect a fingerprint?

not the point, I was just saying that as a joke. politicians like using exclusionary rules... you know, if it isn't explicitly excluded it must be allowed ;)

Maestro Pistolero
09-11-2009, 10:17 PM
Dear Governor,
As an American whose family has been in this country since 1730, about the year that George Washington was born, and whose direct ancestors fought in the American Revolution, I am appalled at the lack of understanding, the disrespect, and ignorance in the state legislature of the meaning and importance of our founding documents, especially the bill of rights.

I am writing to express my opposition to AB 962 and 585. The CA Attorney General has acknowledged that the Second Amendment now applies to the the state of California. Therefore any further infringement on the rights of law abiding gun owners is inappropriate and goes against the Bill of rights which states: The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. This amendment is anything but ambiguous.

This right obviously includes the freedom to purchase ammunition and firearms without interference from the government. No one, not even those supporting this abominable effort, could reasonably believe, nor has anyone been able to make a serious argument, that the proposed restrictions will affect anyone but law abiding folks. Criminals, as you know, will do as they always have, and they will ignore the law and continue have access to any contraband they wish, be it drugs or weapons. If there were any doubt about that, we need only examine our ability to stem the wholesale flow of hundreds of thousands of tons of contraband and illegal immigrants into the country. Let that fact be the measure of the likelihood of success of AB 962 and 585.

Criminals get whatever they want, whenever they want it. Law abiding people will be the only ones subjected to the proposed law. It therefore will accomplish nothing, no lives will be saved, no violent crime averted, and yet more administrative burden and expense will be incurred by everyone involved, except the criminal who the law purports to affect.

Prohibition on possession of weapons and ammunition by felons and others disqualified from having them has been long established, and with sufficient enforcement, should be the beginning and the end of the matter. The government is otherwise prohibited from infringing on the law abiding citizen's free exercise of second amendment rights.

There is an increasing sensitivity in the voting public to this issue, and much momentum in the Federal courts toward eliminating useless gun laws that criminals, by definition, ignore.

I urgently and respectfully request that you do everything in your power to end this despicable trampling of our Constitution. Your leadership is badly needed to put a stop to this desperate, useless, burdensome, and misguided effort to stem gun violence.

Warmest Regards,
Christopher J Hoffman

San Diego, CA 92104

Permission granted to everyone to copy and use in whole or in part as appropriate.

cousinkix1953
09-11-2009, 10:20 PM
I would love to see the entire firearms industry to begin boycotting LE in the State of CA. Only sell to civilians until they stop infringing on rights.
Same here! A complete arms embargo might wake the ignorant masses up. Millions of morons don't care about their rights until they can't exercise them any more. Time to turn off Amerikan Idol.

Imagine going to a gun store and there isn't much for sale any more. You can't get any ammo for your firearm; because it wasn't chambered for a common popular cartridge. You can't buy what you need on the internet, or order any from another part of the PRK either. Your 2nd Amendment rights are now history.

Bill Bratton and his ilk are loyal to a foreign government. They are traitors to their country and it's Constitution. I sent a message to Arnold and let him know that I am sick of those sanctuary cities and those corrupt police chiefs who refuse to enforce a federal gun law on the books since 1968.

There is no excuse for ignorance; when the illegal alien exclusion rule is right on those BATFE forms. No green card = no guns, no matter how these criminals obtained them. Don't these white trash police chiefs understand ENGLISH?

Everybody knows that foreign criminals are waging war on our streets. The Mexican drug cartels grow weed on public land and terrorize unarmed people with illegal guns. The hippies don't dig cock fighting pits in the middle of their gardens and they didn't start that forest fire in Santa Barbara county either...

bodger
09-11-2009, 10:30 PM
Same here! No more firearms and ammunition should be sold to the LEAs in our crime infested sanctuary cities! Illegal aliens are not allowed to have firearms. Enforce the Gun Control Act of 1968 and knock off the PC baloney. There is no excuse for ignorance of the law; when that IA question is right on the BATFE forms.

I sent a message to Arnold letting him know just how sick I am of these corrupt liberal police chiefs, who are loyal to a corrupt foreign regeime...


LeRoy Baca being one of the best examples of that (And was vocal in his support of AB962).
And the entire Los Angeles City Council.

Standing Order 40.
'Nuff said.

freonr22
09-11-2009, 10:32 PM
Are you ****ing serious? You post this **** in all these threads, but what are you going to do? You're gonna email, call, fax, and then sit there and take it like a *****. Stop trying to stir up **** and getting more people in trouble.

Originally Posted by freonr22 file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/PCMECH%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=3050772#post3050772)
Hey I posted in the 3 threads on PURPOSE. I am so MAD Right now. I know the Calgunners are doing something. I UNDERSTAND I am one of US. BUT as a WHOLE, US AMERICANS, US CALIFORNIANS, ARE SITTING on our Butt. WE are not out in the streets, (if that would even be the right thing. We are not doing a Million man march. we are typing on our computers and complaining. So we send emails. SO


WE NEED TO GET OFF OUR BUTTS AND DO SOMETHING. HOW ABOUT A CALGUNS (I MEAN ALL CALGUNS) go to Sacremento and protest. I will, WILL YOU? WHO IS WITH me????


The other side does it. they even pay people to goto town halls, to protest. I pm'd Dirty j this right now:

"I mean no disrespect to you or anyone, I am trying to get people motivated, what is your thought? what we are doing is not working. what is your commitment? I am not trying in any way to be an ***. whats is your solution? I am open. my cell # is 408.898.6423
paul

cousinkix1953
09-11-2009, 11:12 PM
LeRoy Baca being one of the best examples of that (And was vocal in his support of AB962).
And the entire Los Angeles City Council.

Standing Order 40.
'Nuff said.
You know it! I know it. So why does the NRA fail to point out their refusal to enforce a federal gun control law?

They had nothing to say about a crackpot Kommiefornia driver's license scheme promoted by the sponsors of AB 962 either. An illegal alien can register to vote for anti-gun candidates. He can use the DMV's plastic card to buy his guns from your favorite FFLs too. It's easy to lie about using drugs; so denying that you're an illegal alien is easy too.

Somebody actually got away with this at a Watsonville gun store in 1982! The chickens came home to roost, after this suspect was arrested for robbing a department store. Only then did the San Jose BATFE agents start going through the dealer's records and find a few more illegal transfers. They didn't run immigration checks then or even now as far as we know. It's the gun dealer's fault, if the feds don't do their homework!

Where was the Gun Lobby's outrage; when the DEA raided the Cow Palace on Memorial Day weekend? I don't see anybody trying to ban drug infested "canned music" concerts on state owned property. S---, anybody can turn on his CD player, crank upo the stereo and get wasted at home. It's not our job to provide services for the criminal elements...

heyjerr
09-11-2009, 11:13 PM
Permission granted to everyone to copy and use in whole or in part as appropriate.

Done. Thank you for the template that I was able to slightly personalize.

bodger
09-11-2009, 11:23 PM
You know it! I know it. So why does the NRA fail to point out their refusal to enforce a federal gun control law?

They had nothing to say about a crackpot Kommiefornia driver's license scheme promoted by the sponsors of AB 962 either. An illegal alien can register to vote for anti-gun candidates. He can use the DMV's plastic card to buy his guns from your favorite FFLs too. It's easy to lie about using drugs; so denying that you're an illegal alien is easy too.

Somebody actually got away with this at a Watsonville gun store in 1982! The chickens came home to roost, after this suspect was arrested for robbing a department store. Only then did the San Jose BATFE agents start going through the dealer's records and find a few more illegal transfers. They didn't run immigration checks then or even now as far as we know. It's the gun dealer's fault, if the feds don't do their homework!

Where was the Gun Lobby's outrage; when the DEA raided the Cow Palace on Memorial Day weekend? I don't see anybody trying to ban drug infested "canned music" concerts on state owned property. S---, anybody can turn on his CD player, crank upo the stereo and get wasted at home. It's not our job to provide services for the criminal elements...

I don't know. I often don't understand why the NRA does things the way they do. I've been perplexed before and had the intricate nuances explained to me by Hoffmang and others in the threads I have read on CG.

It's complicated and they seem to have a process and know what is the best course. But there are questions I would like to ask them, yours for starters.
I send them money all the time, I'm entitled to answers I guess.

As for the IA issue, that's one hell of a lot bigger problem than anything related to AB962. But DeLeon sure as hell isn't going to introduce anything that will take away anything an illegal alien enjoys. Half the people who voted for him are probably here illegally.

dakobster81
09-12-2009, 12:47 AM
Originally Posted by freonr22 file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/PCMECH%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=3050772#post3050772)
Hey I posted in the 3 threads on PURPOSE. I am so MAD Right now. I know the Calgunners are doing something. I UNDERSTAND I am one of US. BUT as a WHOLE, US AMERICANS, US CALIFORNIANS, ARE SITTING on our Butt. WE are not out in the streets, (if that would even be the right thing. We are not doing a Million man march. we are typing on our computers and complaining. So we send emails. SO


WE NEED TO GET OFF OUR BUTTS AND DO SOMETHING. HOW ABOUT A CALGUNS (I MEAN ALL CALGUNS) go to Sacremento and protest. I will, WILL YOU? WHO IS WITH me????


The other side does it. they even pay people to goto town halls, to protest. I pm'd Dirty j this right now:

"I mean no disrespect to you or anyone, I am trying to get people motivated, what is your thought? what we are doing is not working. what is your commitment? I am not trying in any way to be an ***. whats is your solution? I am open. my cell # is 408.898.6423
paul

I completely agree with this guy, someone with some influence here start getting something coordinated, we need to take this to sacramento

cousinkix1953
09-12-2009, 1:18 AM
I don't know. I often don't understand why the NRA does things the way they do. I've been perplexed before and had the intricate nuances explained to me by Hoffmang and others in the threads I have read on CG.

It's complicated and they seem to have a process and know what is the best course. But there are questions I would like to ask them, yours for starters.
I send them money all the time, I'm entitled to answers I guess.

As for the IA issue, that's one hell of a lot bigger problem than anything related to AB962. But DeLeon sure as hell isn't going to introduce anything that will take away anything an illegal alien enjoys. Half the people who voted for him are probably here illegally.
He'll carry on with his predecesssor's crackpot license schemes. One of those illegals will buy a gun in a store and use it. This imbecile politician will want to pass a redundant state law, which his kind has ignored for decades.

I sent a note to CrossRoads of the West too. In a nutshell it said, "if you aren't gonna go public and oppose the drug dealers using a state owned facility; then don't complain because you get kicked out of the Cow Palace. I never saw anything about this on their homepage.

The Nordykes fought for their beliefs and made a major impact on the gun rights front...

mmartin
09-12-2009, 8:03 AM
been leaving messages on all Arnold's phone machines... there's still room on there, I'm encouraging you to fill them up!
Megan

in case you'd like to contact the gov on this:

http://gov.ca.gov/interact#contact

Governor's Office:
Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
State Capitol Building
Sacramento, CA 95814
Phone: 916-445-2841
Fax: 916-558-3160 ( new number )
District Offices:
Fresno Office
2550 Mariposa Mall #3013
Fresno, CA 93721
Phone: 559-477-1804
Fax: 559-445-5328
Los Angeles Office
300 South Spring Street
Suite 16701
Los Angeles, CA 90013
Phone: 213-897-0322
Fax: 213-897-0319
Riverside Office
3737 Main Street #201
Riverside, CA 92501
Phone: 951-680-6860
Fax: 951-680-6863
San Diego Office
1350 Front Street
Suite 6054
San Diego, CA 92101
Phone: 619-525-4641
Fax: 619-525-4640
San Francisco Office
455 Golden Gate Avenue
Suite 14000
San Francisco, CA 94102
Phone: 415-703-2218
Fax: 415-703-2803
Washington D.C. Office
134 Hall of the States
444 North Capitol Street NW
Washington D.C. 20001
Phone: 202-624-5270
Fax: 202-624-5280

bradph
09-12-2009, 8:09 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LenDWlMYNw&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fdemocrats.assembly.ca.gov%2Fmemb ers%2Fa45%2F&feature=player_embedded

Link to DeLeon's promotional video.

It is an outright lie, that the bill will target only criminals and not law abiding citizens. Why not just make a simple law, "felons cannot buy ammunition," and call it a done deal.

I sent his to our Governor, I hope it sounds okay:

"Honorable Governor,

AB 962 will do nothing to deter the violent criminal and will only hurt the law abiding citizen. The safe handling of firearms is a perishable skill, as such we need access to ammunition for training and practice. This bill will end those efforts. Please veto this obvious violation of our Second Amendment rights. Please save California from having to spend more of our taxpayer dollars to fight law suits against the state what will surely follow.

Those who choose to exercise their Second Amendment rights will voice our opinions with not only with our pens, but with our votes as well.

Thank you for your time and efforts."

Chunky_lover
09-12-2009, 8:35 AM
after watching the video I fell much better
LIAR

Hogxtz
09-12-2009, 8:42 AM
This is so discouraging. A person can by any firearm they want right off the shelf of a Wal-mart in Idaho, but we may not even be able to buy ammo? In 6 more years its good by to Ca for me. The liberal demos can choke on the loss of revenue. If Arnold actually signs this crap he will be admitting that he is far from being a republican. I have sent so many emails to the dumbarse legislatures as I am sure so many others have done. But obviously they dont listen. As long as Ca has a lucrative welfare system and attracks all the liberal voters with their hands out for freebies Ca doesnt stand a chance at removing those liberal anti-gun idiots from office.

bodger
09-12-2009, 9:33 AM
This is so discouraging. A person can by any firearm they want right off the shelf of a Wal-mart in Idaho, but we may not even be able to buy ammo? In 6 more years its good by to Ca for me. The liberal demos can choke on the loss of revenue. If Arnold actually signs this crap he will be admitting that he is far from being a republican. I have sent so many emails to the dumbarse legislatures as I am sure so many others have done. But obviously they dont listen. As long as Ca has a lucrative welfare system and attracks all the liberal voters with their hands out for freebies Ca doesnt stand a chance at removing those liberal anti-gun idiots from office.


Better make that six months. Six years from now we'll be in way worse shape.

I'm certain Arnie will sign this POS. And the fact that this bill passed demonstrates just how bad things are in this state.

And we hope to be "Shall Issue" in 2 to 5 years? LMAO!

P08
09-12-2009, 10:26 AM
Hi,

Ab 962 oppose -please veto this bill!

I creates another level of government in are recession ravaged state, it unfairly targets small business owners with unneeded restrictions to solve a problem that does not exist. For too long our state has been victimized by attention seeking democratic politicians who are proposing legislation that gives their few left wing extremists constituents undue influence and power over the many.

Please oppose and veto Ab962!

Sincerely,