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View Full Version : Recommended way to transport an OLL AR-15 in an SUV without a trunk?


1surfguy
09-04-2009, 7:48 PM
Pardon the newbie question but I got to start somewhere. I've been reading the postings on this site for about six months now and I can't seem to find an answer to my concern about transporting an OLL AR-15 (with BB) in a sports utility vehicle (SUV) that does not have a separate trunk.


Q1) What is the recommended ways to transport an OLL AR-15 with BB in an SUV that does not have a separate trunk?

Q2) Should I have it in a hard case (i.e. Pelican type) with lock(s) or is a soft case without lock(s) acceptable?

Q3) Where should I keep it in the vehicle as I transport it? Is the middle seat okay or should it be way in the back of the SUV?

6172crew
09-04-2009, 8:00 PM
Lock up the lower, seperate from the upper.

No way they can call it a AW.

Sinestr
09-04-2009, 8:13 PM
Granted you have a bullet button device installed, carry it like a regular rifle. Just remember no ammo on or attached to the rifle in any manner. Also keep an empty mag in the mag well, makes it a little more clear it's a fixed mag build. As long as you follow the flow chart and meet the exemptions you should be good to go.

SwissFluCase
09-04-2009, 8:17 PM
I cover all cases with a blanket that is color coordinated with my interior. Also helps keep prying eyes at bay. Legally it would be transported like any other rifle.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

G17GUY
09-04-2009, 8:38 PM
The gun rack in your window.

Keep this with you. http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Sacramento-PD-OLL_Training_Bulletin-2008-11-18.pdf

Nessal
09-04-2009, 8:54 PM
Granted you have a bullet button device installed, carry it like a regular rifle. Just remember no ammo on or attached to the rifle in any manner. Also keep an empty mag in the mag well, makes it a little more clear it's a fixed mag build. As long as you follow the flow chart and meet the exemptions you should be good to go.



Not entirely true. You can have ammunition attached to the gun. It just cant be in a position that can be readily fired.

SJgunguy24
09-04-2009, 9:47 PM
Pardon the newbie question but I got to start somewhere. I've been reading the postings on this site for about six months now and I can't seem to find an answer to my concern about transporting an OLL AR-15 (with BB) in a sports utility vehicle (SUV) that does not have a separate trunk.


Q1) What is the recommended ways to transport an OLL AR-15 with BB in an SUV that does not have a separate trunk?

Q2) Should I have it in a hard case (i.e. Pelican type) with lock(s) or is a soft case without lock(s) acceptable?

Q3) Where should I keep it in the vehicle as I transport it? Is the middle seat okay or should it be way in the back of the SUV?

A1) Legally it doesn't matter, you can walk down the street carrying an unloaded rifle.
Should you...no unless you wanna meet cops.

A2) the case doesn't matter, see answer 1. I use pack back type rifle bags for my AK's. Sometimes I ride to the range on a mt. bike. Thats perfectlly legal. And yes i've asked police about this and they have all said i'll be talked to. Fine by me, i'll have my recording equipment ready, flow chart, pocket constitution, and a couple of phone numbers on speed dial ready.:cool2:

A3) see answers above.

armygunsmith
09-04-2009, 10:06 PM
I put them in the rear compartment of my SUV and cover them using the built in cover or a blanket. Keep a low profile and keep them out of sight. By keeping them out of sight, police won't have enough of reason to check for unloaded firearms (unless you tell them you are transporting firearms). If you are stopped and are asked if there are any weapons in the vehicle, your answer should be "I have nothing illegal in my vehicle." Just make sure you don't have anything illegal in your vehicle. This is just what I do, and you might not be comfortable with that.

NorCalRifleman
09-04-2009, 10:23 PM
I always keep mine at the low ready, that way if you need to dismount in case of enemy engagement . . . oh, right, that would be in Iraq. :p

I treat mine like any other rifle and don't pass up an opportunity to educate someone, even an LEO, about OLL's and BB's and the whole shabang. I actually had an off duty LEO at the range who was convinced I was allowed to have an AW, even Class 3 IN CALIFORNIA just because I'm active duty (no, wasn't in uniform, it just came up). Some folks just need a little ejumicashun.

tankerman
09-05-2009, 4:50 AM
I suggest putting it on a roof rack, uncovered like bicycle or surfboard.

sorensen440
09-05-2009, 7:53 AM
I transport mine unloaded in a gun case or bag on the back seat in my truck

tenpercentfirearms
09-05-2009, 7:59 AM
Unloaded and I usually keep my tactical sling on and have it slung across my chest ready to go just in case I have to deploy out of the vehicle in a hurry.

motorhead
09-05-2009, 8:14 AM
i recommend it be unloaded and inside the vehicle.

WokMaster1
09-05-2009, 8:30 AM
Unloaded and I usually keep my tactical sling on and have it slung across my chest ready to go just in case I have to deploy off the scooter in a hurry.

Fixed.:D

locosway
09-05-2009, 8:41 AM
Get a gun case like an SKB and just lock it when traveling. If you get polled over and the officer asks you what's in the case, just say "Nothing illegal". That's it, you don't have to say anything else. Exercise your 5A rights if you must.

sorensen440
09-05-2009, 8:42 AM
Get a gun case like an SKB and just lock it when traveling. If you get polled over and the officer asks you what's in the case, just say "Nothing illegal". That's it, you don't have to say anything else. Exercise your 5A rights if you must.
Instead of saying "nothing illegal" I would go with "legal documents"

locosway
09-05-2009, 8:43 AM
Instead of saying "nothing illegal" I would go with "legal documents"

And what, keep a copy of your lease in there? :)

CHS
09-05-2009, 8:57 AM
Instead of saying "nothing illegal" I would go with "legal documents"

Ballots :)

locosway
09-05-2009, 9:13 AM
HAHA, that's classic.

Seesm
09-05-2009, 9:17 AM
I carry mine in a rolling lock box with LEO paperwork ready if they shall break open my locked case....

locosway
09-05-2009, 9:19 AM
I carry mine in a rolling lock box with LEO paperwork ready if they shall break open my locked case....

Not without a warrant afaik.

sorensen440
09-05-2009, 9:22 AM
Not without a warrant afaik.
They dont need one for a firearms check if they have reason to believe there is one in the case

locosway
09-05-2009, 10:41 AM
They dont need one for a firearms check if they have reason to believe there is one in the case

They can break open a black locked case because there "may" be a firearm inside?

lorax3
09-05-2009, 11:21 AM
They can break open a black locked case because there "may" be a firearm inside?

I don't know about 'may' but if they is a firearm inside they can check to see if it is loaded.

Wether or not that is challengeable on 4A grounds is another story, but there are bigger battles to fight right now.

PC 12031 (e) In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for
the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized
to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a
vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an
incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory.
Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to
this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of
this section.

supermario
09-05-2009, 11:41 AM
I am just curious but, Why not just say i have an unloaded legal firearm in the gun case" and yes you may check it? I would think if you are friendly and compliant, they will just look at it and be on there way? If you say, nothing illegal or papework etc, wouldnt a LEO take it as sarcasm and just do what he pleases anyways. I always thought, why refuse, if its just gonna get them pissed at you and then they will really F#$% with you? Is that not a good idea?

tube_ee
09-05-2009, 11:57 AM
I am just curious but, Why not just say i have an unloaded legal firearm in the gun case" and yes you may check it? I would think if you are friendly and compliant, they will just look at it and be on there way? If you say, nothing illegal or papework etc, wouldnt a LEO take it as sarcasm and just do what he pleases anyways. I always thought, why refuse, if its just gonna get them pissed at you and then they will really F#$% with you? Is that not a good idea?

Never consent to a search of anything for any reason, unless you are legally obligated to allow it.

The cop is not your friend. He may not be your enemy, but while on duty he is an agent of the State.

If they have probable cause, they don't need to ask. If they ask, it's because they have to, and if they have to ask, you can say no. If you can say no, you should.

Everybody should follow the law. Especially those being paid to enforce it.

--Shannon

Flopper
09-05-2009, 11:57 AM
I am just curious but, Why not just say i have an unloaded legal firearm in the gun case" and yes you may check it? I would think if you are friendly and compliant, they will just look at it and be on there way? If you say, nothing illegal or papework etc, wouldnt a LEO take it as sarcasm and just do what he pleases anyways. I always thought, why refuse, if its just gonna get them pissed at you and then they will really F#$% with you? Is that not a good idea?

You're right, compliance is usually a very prudent course of action if you don't want to have any problems with LEO's.

But to answer your question: because we don't live in a police state. No one, the government included, needs to be going through my personal belongings simply to make sure I'm doing things legally.

sorensen440
09-05-2009, 12:59 PM
I am just curious but, Why not just say i have an unloaded legal firearm in the gun case" and yes you may check it? I would think if you are friendly and compliant, they will just look at it and be on there way? If you say, nothing illegal or papework etc, wouldnt a LEO take it as sarcasm and just do what he pleases anyways. I always thought, why refuse, if its just gonna get them pissed at you and then they will really F#$% with you? Is that not a good idea?
Because just that sort of "compliance" has landed people in serious trouble from police who dont 100% understand our firearms laws

tombinghamthegreat
09-05-2009, 4:42 PM
Any way you want to transport as long as its unloaded.... just be aware of school zones.

NRAhighpowershooter
09-05-2009, 5:49 PM
I transport my Service rifle oll in a Creedmoor AR padded nylon case in the back of my open bed pickup along with my other HP gear..

Ditch
09-05-2009, 7:15 PM
A1) Legally it doesn't matter, you can walk down the street carrying an unloaded rifle.
Should you...no unless you wanna meet cops.

A2) the case doesn't matter, see answer 1. I use pack back type rifle bags for my AK's. Sometimes I ride to the range on a mt. bike. Thats perfectlly legal. And yes i've asked police about this and they have all said i'll be talked to. Fine by me, i'll have my recording equipment ready, flow chart, pocket constitution, and a couple of phone numbers on speed dial ready.:cool2:

A3) see answers above.

Should you...no unless you wanna meet cops.

I think cops get lonely at times! maybe we should.....lol

1surfguy
09-05-2009, 8:00 PM
I appreciate all the responses to my newbie question. Just to get my thoughts around all the responses, I summarized most of them below based on my original questions. I decided not to note the additional comments on what Law Enforcement Officers (LEO) are able to do if they pull you over or how you should responed. I know there are many excellent treads discussing those issues and I will read them with great interest.


Q1) What is the recommended ways to transport an OLL AR-15 with BB in an SUV that does not have a separate trunk?

Humor Section:
[NorCalRifleman] I always keep mine at the low ready, that way if you need to dismount in case of enemy engagement . . . oh, right, that would be in Iraq.
[G17GUY] The gun rack in your window.
[tenpercentfirearms] Unloaded and I usually keep my tactical sling on and have it slung across my chest ready to go just in case I have to deploy out of the vehicle in a hurry.


Q2) Should I have it in a hard case (i.e. Pelican type) with lock(s) or is a soft case without lock(s) acceptable?

A2.1) [6172Crew] Lock up the lower, seperate from the upper. No way they can call it a AW.
A2.2) [Sinestr] ..you have a bullet button device installed, carry it like a regular rifle. Just remember no ammo on or attached to the rifle in any manner. Also keep an empty mag in the mag well, makes it a little more clear it's a fixed mag build.
A2.3) [Nessal] You can have ammunition attached to the gun. It just can't be in a position that can be readily fired.
A2.4) [SJgunguy24] Legally it doesn't matter, you can walk down the street carrying an unloaded rifle.
A2.5)[NorCalRifleman] I treat mine like any other rifle and don't pass up an opportunity to educate someone, even an LEO, about OLL's and BB's and the whole shabang.
A2.6) [sorensen440] I transport mine unloaded in a gun case or bag on the back seat in my truck
A2.7) [locosway] Get a gun case like an SKB and just lock it when traveling.
A2.8) [Seesm] I carry mine in a rolling lock box with LEO paperwork ready...
A2.9) [tombinghamthegreat] Any way you want to transport as long as its unloaded.... just be aware of school zones.
A2.10) [NRAhighpowershooter] I transport my Service rifle oll in a Creedmoor AR padded nylon case in the back of my open bed pickup along with my other HP gear..
A2.11) [SwissFluCase] Legally it would be transported like any other rifle.

Q3) Where should I keep it in the vehicle as I transport it? Is the middle seat okay or should it be way in the back of the SUV?

A3.1) [armygunsmith] I put them in the rear compartment of my SUV and cover them using the built in cover or a blanket. Keep a low profile and keep them out of sight. By keeping them out of sight, police won't have enough of reason to check for unloaded firearms (unless you tell them you are transporting firearms).
A3.2) [SwissFluCase] I cover all cases with a blanket that is color coordinated with my interior. Also helps keep prying eyes at bay.
A3.3) [G17GUY] Keep this with you. http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Sac...2008-11-18.pdf

lorax3
09-05-2009, 8:42 PM
There is no legal reason to lock it up that pertains to CA law. The only real law you would need to watch out for is 18 USC 922 (q)(2)(A) which is federal.

(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is—
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.

I see prosecutions under this section with slightly more likelihood than 922(r), but not by much.

I doubt people in other states even know this exists. If you want to avoid any hassle keep it locked up and out of sight. Then again, it is up to you. Your milage may vary.

CSACANNONEER
09-05-2009, 8:53 PM
I just throw them in the back seat. Sometimes they are in a case and sometimes they are loosely wrapped in whatever is handy. If you feel brave, you could get a pedistal and mount your rifle to it so that someone can man it through a sun roof. I've thought about doing that with my old Discovery since it has two sun roofs. My 1919 would take up much less cargo room if it was mounted on top of the truck instead of inside it. I know they make some sort of adapter to mount your AR on a pedistal mount as well.

SJgunguy24
09-05-2009, 9:27 PM
Should you...no unless you wanna meet cops.

I think cops get lonely at times! maybe we should.....lol

I have ridden to and from gun shops, ranges, and gun shows at least 5 times. Only once have I ever had a cop do anything, and all he did was follow me for a couple hundred yards and then he split.

G17GUY
09-05-2009, 9:33 PM
Unloaded and I usually keep my tactical sling on and have it slung across my chest ready to go just in case I have to deploy out of the vehicle in a hurry.

:rofl2:

SAN compnerd
09-06-2009, 11:42 AM
Unloaded and I usually keep my tactical sling on and have it slung across my chest ready to go just in case I have to deploy out of the vehicle in a hurry.

Don't take this the wrong way but some of you guys need to get out a bit more.:D

I seem to remember a requirment to keep the gun and the ammo in seperate locked containers making transport a real PITA. Am I wrong about this? Is this just for handguns?

tombinghamthegreat
09-06-2009, 1:02 PM
I seem to remember a requirment to keep the gun and the ammo in seperate locked containers making transport a real PITA. Am I wrong about this? Is this just for handguns?

FUD there is not such thing for long guns or handguns. AMMO+ GUN can be in the same container, right next to each other or even touching. Even mags can be loaded, Just not in a position to be fired from(PC12031, people vs clark). I usually have a shotgun with a side saddle with a ammo sling.

timdps
09-06-2009, 2:52 PM
Rather than spend the time to have him check the gun, maybe call for (and wait) for backup, why not keep the case covered so that it not easy to tell if there is a gun case under the cover and avoid the whole "checking to see if its loaded" thing altogether?

As others have said, you may get a LEO who does not under stand the whole OLL thing and spend a lot of time and possibly money instead of just a quick ticket...

tim




I am just curious but, Why not just say i have an unloaded legal firearm in the gun case" and yes you may check it? I would think if you are friendly and compliant, they will just look at it and be on there way? If you say, nothing illegal or papework etc, wouldnt a LEO take it as sarcasm and just do what he pleases anyways. I always thought, why refuse, if its just gonna get them pissed at you and then they will really F#$% with you? Is that not a good idea?

tenpercentfirearms
09-06-2009, 3:45 PM
Don't take this the wrong way but some of you guys need to get out a bit more.:D

I seem to remember a requirment to keep the gun and the ammo in seperate locked containers making transport a real PITA. Am I wrong about this? Is this just for handguns?

Don't take this the wrong way, but you need to be prepared to get out more. Zombies/illegal alien rioters/Jack Booted Thugs/invading UN Armies/North Hollywood shoot-outs could strike at any time. I keep my featureless AR and two double stacked Beta C Mags on me nearly all day long, especially in the car or while on the the scooter (http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g52/elrojo14/guns/scooter3.jpg).

Of course since this thread was about what is legal and what isn't, you don't have to have your ammo in a separate part of the car/scooter. As long as it is not in a position to be fired, you are good to go.

leitung
09-06-2009, 4:13 PM
I carry mine in a locked container and unloaded as I do with all guns. I do it for security and so put LEOs who may not totally be up on the law at ease if I am indeed stopped and made.

I second covering all cases with a blanket, it helps divert prying eyes.

bodger
09-06-2009, 4:34 PM
Is a shotgun considered loaded if the mag tube is full, but there is not a round chambered?

locosway
09-06-2009, 4:35 PM
Is a shotgun considered loaded if the mag tube is full, but there is not a round chambered?

Yes

ojisan
09-06-2009, 4:36 PM
Separate everything and out of reach was the old law.
Not in a position to be fired or attached is the new law.
Most LE knows the old law.
Up to you to gamble on the LE's knowledge of the new law.

In my pickup or SUV, I lock everything in separate cases or boxes with all ammo separate, an extreme version of the old way, since I cannot make them out of reach in my pick up truck cab. In the SUV, I do this and move them all the way to the rear.
I often have to drive right by the local school, so locking and casing everything separate just keeps it simpler, but it is a hassle.
The transport laws can be involved and confusing...this one is a trap shotgun, no locked case needed; this one is a RAW, locked case needed if I drive within 1,000' of any school on the way to the range; this one is a concealable handgun and should be in a locked case all the time; this trip I am transporting guns to the gun show for sale so nothing has to be cased and locked if I don't drive near the school; blah, blah blah.

One time, years ago, my friend and I filled his small cab 4x4 pickup with guns and clay pigeons and chairs and table and canopy and everything else needed for a day's shooting.
His front license plate was missing after being torn off while off roading.
We got pulled over heading out to the desert because of the no front plate issue. Since it was a pickup, the officer could easily see the case of clay pigeons and several ammo cans in the truck bed. It was fairly obvious what we were doing. He asked us if we had any guns, we said yes and pointed to the pile of locked cases behind the seat in the cab.
He leaned in and looked in at all the locked cases, decided right then that there was no problem, and he let us go with a verbal warning to get a new front plate.

Make it easy, make it as clear as you can that there is nothing illegal going on is what I suggest.

tiko
09-06-2009, 10:07 PM
I have 2 of my customers are LEO, I talk many times with them for years. For searching, they always say if you match the bad guy profile then they will search your vehicle with or without consent. About PC, they say if they think they have a PC then it is a PC.

CnCFunFactory
09-07-2009, 1:53 AM
I have 2 of my customers are LEO, I talk many times with them for years. For searching, they always say if you match the bad guy profile then they will search your vehicle with or without consent. About PC, they say if they think they have a PC then it is a PC.

hmmm... so when they willfully violate someones civil rights because they make up a PC situation in there own minds that's ok huh? Not the way I understand the law but what do I know I'm just a US citizen...

CHS
09-07-2009, 7:50 AM
I have 2 of my customers are LEO, I talk many times with them for years. For searching, they always say if you match the bad guy profile then they will search your vehicle with or without consent. About PC, they say if they think they have a PC then it is a PC.

Judges have historically loved slapping cops like that firmly on their backsides.

Cops like that will eventually make up PC for the wrong person and find themselves on the wrong side of a judge.

1surfguy
09-07-2009, 7:08 PM
Very practical advice. Thank you. :yes:

Flopper
09-11-2009, 4:15 PM
Don't take this the wrong way, but you need to be prepared to get out more. Zombies/illegal alien rioters/Jack Booted Thugs/invading UN Armies/North Hollywood shoot-outs could strike at any time. I keep my featureless AR and two double stacked Beta C Mags on me nearly all day long, especially in the car or while on the the scooter (http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g52/elrojo14/guns/scooter3.jpg).


Tactical Vespa FTW!

bodger
09-12-2009, 12:33 AM
hmmm... so when they willfully violate someones civil rights because they make up a PC situation in there own minds that's ok huh? Not the way I understand the law but what do I know I'm just a US citizen...


Jeez, that's encouraging.

Also why I do NOT answer questions from cops. I tell them there's nothing illegal in the car and they have to take it from there as far as violating my rights.

For what that's worth. They can and will do as they please, some of them.