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View Full Version : "Can" a class 03FFL obtain a CFLC? Help...


rangebee
09-04-2009, 6:37 PM
Hello there, hope some knowledgeable CG's out there can help me out with this pickle. I've been searching, but haven't found the exact answer.

"Can" an out of state FFL holding a C&R FFL-03 sign up on the DOJ and obtain a CFLC for an on list Sig Pistol? I ran into a snafu and hoping this might be an option...

I purchased the pistol from GB, and knowing my local FFL takes out of state transfers from FFL only- I ask the seller if they are an FFL, (seemed like a small operation), and they replied YES. So, I commited to the sale and it is now sitting at my local FFL. BUT, I can't pick it up b/c there is no CFLC.

I just learned that the seller is only C&R and is exempt from shipping it with CFLC, but now it's sitting at my local FFL with the hang up. Now, the seller is willing to sign up, but I'm not sure if they allow FFL (03) to sign up for the program?

What are my options?
:confused:

Hateca
09-04-2009, 7:11 PM
CA C&R are exempt from signing up so I would also assume out of state C&R are as well since C&R's are not supposed to be dealing in non C&R weapons.

Why is a C&R using a C&R FFL to ship a non C&R handgun?

Seems to me they should have sent the handgun as a private sale or used a type 01 FFL to ship.

If your FFL does not want to do the transfer then he is required to ship the weapon back or obtain an ID from the seller as a private transfer.

zinfull
09-04-2009, 8:48 PM
It should have shipped as a private seller that way no need for a CFLC note.

It is legal but not all dealers will accept a shipment from a non FFL01. If this is the case time for a different dealer.

jerry

Hateca
09-04-2009, 11:16 PM
Actually the shipper may be in violation of the law dealing in a firearm that is not a C&R. How I understand it is if the person holding a C&R does a transfer other then a C&R weapon he would need a dealers license 01.

Transferring the non C&R weapon using his C&R license looks to be problem on the seller’s part if he was using his C&R to ship a non C&R weapon.

The non C&R should have been sent as a private sale or through a FFL dealer 01 or better.



G. COLLECTORS


(G1) Is there a specific license which permits a collector to acquire firearms in interstate commerce?

Yes. A person may obtain a collector's license. However, this license applies only to transactions in curio or relic firearms.

[18 U.S.C. 923(b), 27 CFR 478.41(c), (d), 478.50(b) and 478.93]


[B](G2) Does a collector's license afford any privileges to the licensee with respect to acquiring or disposing of firearms other than curios or relics in interstate or foreign commerce? [Back]

No. A licensed collector has the same status under the GCA as a non-licensee except for transactions in curio or relic firearms.

[27 CFR 478.93]

(G3) Does a license as a collector of curio or relic firearms authorize the collector to engage in the business of dealing in curios or relics? [Back]

No. A dealer's license must be obtained to engage in the business of dealing in any firearms, including curios or relics.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a) and 923(a), 27 CFR 478.41]

(G4) Since a licensed firearms dealer may legally deal in curio or relic firearms, is there any reason why a dealer would need both a dealer's license and collector's license? [Back]

No. A collector's license enables a collector to obtain curio or relic firearms interstate. A person holding a dealer's license may also acquire curio or relic firearms interstate, and so there is no need for a licensed dealer to obtain a collector’s license.

rangebee
09-04-2009, 11:59 PM
Thanks for the input everyone. I confirmed with them, and they shipped it private party as it was from their personal safe. The misunderstanding came in, when before the sale, I asked if they had FFL to ship to my FFL, in which they replied "yes", when I should have clarified if they were FFL 01 with CFLC.

Now, with the holiday weekend, I can't get back to my local FFL to iron this out until Tuesday. It would realllllly be counter-productive for it to be shipped back! Really? Can it go to another local FFL that will accept from a Private party?

This is all from a very important yet a hell of a misunderstanding. I'll learn this lesson only once.

Hateca
09-05-2009, 12:28 AM
Thanks for the input everyone. I confirmed with them, and they shipped it private party as it was from their personal safe. The misunderstanding came in, when before the sale, I asked if they had FFL to ship to my FFL, in which they replied "yes", when I should have clarified if they were FFL 01 with CFLC.

Now, with the holiday weekend, I can't get back to my local FFL to iron this out until Tuesday. It would realllllly be counter-productive for it to be shipped back! Really? Can it go to another local FFL that will accept from a Private party?

This is all from a very important yet a hell of a misunderstanding. I'll learn this lesson only once.

Yes but your FFL who is now holding the weapon will have to be a party to that and him having the weapon this long is going to complicate things on his end if he refuses to accept a private person shipment.

Your FFL now has the weapon, it should by now be in his book, or it should be by regs. He would have to be willing to do a transfer to another dealer and he still would have basically accepted the weapon from a non licensed person and logged it into his book as such. Into the book from the out of state person, and now out to another Kalifornia dealer. He might as well complete the transfer to you.

kemasa
09-05-2009, 11:20 AM
Your FFl can not ship it back because the shipped is not a 01FFL and as such, there is no need for the letter, so the transfer can proceed. It would not make sense to ship it to another FFL since that would not solve the non-problem (lack of CFLC), but it is not actually a problem.

rangebee
09-24-2009, 6:04 PM
i just want to update that after almost a month... I will finally pick up my P6 this weekend. whew... what a tooth-pulling experience for this snafu.

The local FFL (after several conversations) allowed the transfer to proceed with additional paperwork (Seller ID, FFL03, etc). I almost thought it wouldn't happen for a while, but the 10 day wait will be over in a few days. Thank you everyone for your great feedback. Can't wait to get shootin this pistol... Gotta make a nice nest in the safe for it :)