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View Full Version : New here, roster sort of incomplete


fragthefreaks
09-04-2009, 5:51 PM
Because of 12131.5, some weapons not specifically listed are mistakenly thought to be illegal/not importable. You guys should really be making this known to your customers.
There seems to be some unintentional misinformation about this subject in the "California Handguns" section in the "Safe Gun List " sticky. 12131.5 is referenced under the question "Why is the 'blue' one on the roster and the 'stainless' one not (on the roster)"
It says after the code section "but even those models must be added to the roster" this is not exactly true variants of the same model that have, say, a beavertail frame don't change the things listed in 12131.5(a)(3) and(4) and are being imported legally.
I only recently became aware of this sheerly by my own pigheadedness about wanting a certain weapon. IMHO you guys should be stressing the fact that non-professionals deciding on what they might be able to own, may in fact be shorting themselves by not consulting with an FFL.

just trying to help.

halifax
09-04-2009, 7:36 PM
Because of 12131.5, some weapons not specifically listed are mistakenly thought to be illegal/not importable. You guys should really be making this known to your customers.
There seems to be some unintentional misinformation about this subject in the "California Handguns" section in the "Safe Gun List " sticky. 12131.5 is referenced under the question "Why is the 'blue' one on the roster and the 'stainless' one not (on the roster)"
It says after the code section "but even those models must be added to the roster" this is not exactly true variants of the same model that have, say, a beavertail frame don't change the things listed in 12131.5(a)(3) and(4) and are being imported legally.
I only recently became aware of this sheerly by my own pigheadedness about wanting a certain weapon. IMHO you guys should be stressing the fact that non-professionals deciding on what they might be able to own, may in fact be shorting themselves by not consulting with an FFL.

just trying to help.

That section only applies to manufacturers. The mfg may submit variants to be added to the roster ($$$). The FFL may not use this section to import a variant that is not listed.

12131.5. Similar firearms.
(a) A firearm shall be deemed to satisfy the
requirements of subdivision (a) of Section 12131
if another firearm made by the same manufacturer
is already listed and the unlisted firearm
differs from the listed firearm only in one or more
of the following features:
(1) Finish, including, but not limited to, bluing,
chrome-plating, oiling, or engraving.
(2) The material from which the grips are
made.
(3) The shape or texture of the grips, so long
as the difference in grip shape or texture does
not in any way alter the dimensions, material,
linkage, or functioning of the magazine well, the
barrel, the chamber, or any of the components
of the firing mechanism of the firearm.
(4) Any other purely cosmetic feature that
does not in any way alter the dimensions, material,
linkage, or functioning of the magazine well,
the barrel, the chamber, or any of the components
of the firing mechanism of the firearm.
(b) Any manufacturer seeking to have a firearm
listed under this section shall provide to the
Department of Justice all of the following:
(1) The model designation of the listed firearm.
(2) The model designation of each firearm
that the manufacturer seeks to have listed under
this section.
(3) A statement, under oath, that each unlisted
firearm for which listing is sought differs
from the listed firearm only in one or more of the
ways identified in subdivision (a) and is in all
other respects identical to the listed firearm.(c) The department may, in its discretion and
at any time, require a manufacturer to provide to
the department any model for which listing is
sought under this section, to determine whether
the model complies with the requirements of this
section.

See also: The California ‘safe gun list’ sticky (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=81127)

halifax
09-04-2009, 8:20 PM
That section only applies to manufacturers. The mfg may submit variants to be added to the roster ($$$). The FFL may not use this section to import a variant that is not listed.

There is an interesting conundrum here though:

The less specific the description in the listing is, the more leeway the FFL seems to have. If the roster lists, for example:

S&W 442-2 (internal lock) / Alloy, Steel, Stainless Steel then any variant should be acceptable that meets the description. Pink grips*, commemorative models, etc.

On the other hand:

Nighthawk Custom sells at least a dozen color combinations for this model but only these colors are allowed to be sold because they are specifically listed:

Predator III (Black/Sniper Gray) / Steel Pistol 4.33" .45 Auto 11/1/2009
Predator III (Black/Titanium Blue) / Steel Pistol 4.33" .45 Auto 11/1/2009

The FFL could not choose anything else from the drop-down list of approved models. Likewise the FFL can't legally sell a Nickel model if only the Blue Steel one is on the drop-down list.

*some notable distributors will not ship this model with pink grips to CA because it has a different SKU number than the approved one. Where they got the SKU numbers for what's approved and what's not is a secret apparently.