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C4iGrant
09-03-2009, 10:29 AM
Story on how they came to be


A Charging Handle for the 21st Century Gun Fighter

A NEW Charging Handle and Extended Latch System
Handle Machined from 7075 T6 Billet, Latch is 6061 Aluminum
Hard Coat Anodized per Mil-A-8625F, Type III, Class 2
GFH - Mod3 (large latch) and Mod4 (medium latch)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/bravocompanyusa/BCMGFHMod4catalogpic800b.jpg

When the AR15 system was first introduced to and fielded by the US Military in the 1960s, the manual of arms for an infantryman was significantly different than what currently exists today. To charge the rifle the shooter released their hand from a firing grip, grabbed each side of the charging handle with the thumb and forefinger or the first two fingers , (while applying pressure to the latch) pulled the charging handle all the way to the rear, and then released it to charge the weapon.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/bravocompanyusa/M16A2ChargingHandlecropped579.jpg

Like everything else in the last 45 years, tactics and weaponry have undergone a continuous evolution. Red dot optics get the shooter on target quicker, shorter barrels allow the operator to more quickly negotiate tighter urban areas, and operator’s manipulations of the weapon system have become much more efficient and faster. The current manual of arms has the operator maintaining a firing grip almost continuously while manipulating the weapon with the non-dominant hand in an effort to more quickly get the weapon ready to fire. With that premise, most weapon manipulations are done only with the shooter’s support hand; to include operating the charging handle.

In order to perform an immediate action or charge the carbine, current CQB techniques have the operator racking the charging handle to the rear using their support side hand only. This is done in one swift and strong movement. With the operator’s firing grip maintained, the weapon again has a loaded chamber, and the shooter can immediately bring a hot weapon back into the fight.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/bravocompanyusa/racking2009.jpg

The current use of extended tactical latches has made this movement much more efficient. The only drawback to this type of manipulation is all the force used to rack the charging handle rearward goes into the extended tactical latch and is then transferred into the roll pin. With this scenario, the entire operation becomes contingent on the sheer strength of this tiny 1/16” roll pin, and its’ ability to take continuing blows. Repeated and forceful support hand only racking of the charging handle eventually can lead to breaking the roll pin and loosing the latch completely. With the latch blown out, the charging handle will not stay secured to the receiver as the bolt is moving back and forth during each cycle of the weapon’s action. Not a good situation on a two way range.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/bravocompanyusa/IMG_2056.jpg

We have been very fortunate to receive continuing feedback from trainers and operators alike for several years now regarding these issues. Internally we have seen this many times while in the course of continually test firing weapons before sale. Initially we matched up a couple prototype solutions, but in conversations with Eric at VLTOR, he was able to develop a better design at a better price for the consumer. (VLTOR patent pending)




The BCMGUNFIGHTER™ Charging Handle and extended latches feature internal redesigns to direct the force off of the roll pin and into the body of the charging handle during support hand only manipulations. This new design has a built in backstop engineered into the extended latch and into the charging handle. As the latch is opened up, its’ travel is limited by these flat surface backstops. With this travel limiting feature, the stress is taken off the roll pin, and is now redirected into the entire body of the charging handle.

The BCMGUNFIGHTER™ Charging Handle offers two significant advantages.

1. Since the tiny roll pin is no longer the weak point - it is a much stronger system and tactical latch will stay intact even under repeated support side only manipulation.

2. With the force kept inside the body of the handle, when the handle is pulled directly to the rear, it moves directly to the rear and does not angle off to the outboard side. A much smoother operation.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/bravocompanyusa/GFH-MOD4-cutaway-drawing-bo.jpg
On the cutaway computer drawings you can see the inside machining of the latch. It shows the 3 inside contact surfaces. (The 2 semi circular cuts are to aid in the removal of dirt and debris that can get inside the handle.)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/bravocompanyusa/GFH-bottom-view-of-mod-3.jpg
On the bottom view you can see the outside of the latch itself. It is actually as thick as the handle. This provides 2 additional contact surfaces to insure the force is maintained inside the handle and offers the operator more contact surface to manipulate the handle.

C4iGrant
09-03-2009, 10:30 AM
I got a small shipment in today and snapped some comparison pics for all to see.



C4



http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/BCM/CH_Comparison.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/BCM/CH_Comparison2.jpg


BCM GF MOD 3
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/BCM/CH_MOD3.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/BCM/CH_MOD3a.jpg

BCM GF MOD 4
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/BCM/CH_MOD4.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/BCM/CH_MOD4a.jpg

1811
09-03-2009, 10:31 AM
I'm getting one....

Can't find it on the site...

C4iGrant
09-03-2009, 10:35 AM
I'm getting one....

Can't find it on the site...


We do not have enough to put on our website yet. Only people that are on are back order list are getting them, but we should have more VERY shortly!


C4

Texas Boy
09-03-2009, 10:55 AM
Very nice, but it appears to overlook one critical area of the charging handle - The release is ONLY on the left side. This is OK when operating the weapon right handed using your support hand, but becomes awkward should due to injury or environment constraints you need to operate the weapon right handed using your right hand, or left handed using your right hand.

The ideal latch would be operated from either side by simply pulling back. While there have been some attempts to make such a latch, there is still significant room for improvement. Of the 2 such designs I'm aware of, one requires a push or squeeze motion for opposite side release, and the other requires the bolt to be forward for the release to work (i.e. can't use the charging handle to release the bolt - must use the paddle).

Again, some very nice work appears to have gone into this design - and both BCM and Vltor make great stuff (I own products from both companies), but with a little bit more work you guys could have THE charging handle that all others are judged against.

C4iGrant
09-03-2009, 11:01 AM
Very nice, but it appears to overlook one critical area of the charging handle - The release is ONLY on the left side. This is OK when operating the weapon right handed using your support hand, but becomes awkward should due to injury or environment constraints you need to operate the weapon right handed using your right hand, or left handed using your right hand.

The ideal latch would be operated from either side by simply pulling back. While there have been some attempts to make such a latch, there is still significant room for improvement. Of the 2 such designs I'm aware of, one requires a push or squeeze motion for opposite side release, and the other requires the bolt to be forward for the release to work (i.e. can't use the charging handle to release the bolt - must use the paddle).

Again, some very nice work appears to have gone into this design - and both BCM and Vltor make great stuff (I own products from both companies), but with a little bit more work you guys could have THE charging handle that all others are judged against.


I would have to disagree. Ever see Larry Vickers shoot (he is a lefty)??? I am a righty and shoot a lot of offhand in advanced carbine schools, I have never had an issue running the Charging Handle. One simply cants the weapon to the right, reaches over with their right hand and runs the Charging Handle.



C4

Ruiner
09-03-2009, 11:04 AM
Hmm.. I like it. Definitely gona pick one up sometime.

Nessal
09-03-2009, 11:10 AM
How often does roll pins in the CH fail?

mds2004
09-03-2009, 11:40 AM
How often does roll pins in the CH fail?

Ive never heard of a case with my past 3 or 4 years on various gun forums. I feel like it is fixing a non-existent problem. With that said I think Im going to get one because I like the latch.

1811
09-03-2009, 11:42 AM
I'm getting one because I am a VLTOR whore....:drool5:

SMGLee
09-03-2009, 12:25 PM
Drool......this means i would have to replace all my PRI Gas busters....

Technical Ted
09-03-2009, 12:31 PM
I need one for my MUR.

Just because.

1811
09-03-2009, 12:39 PM
Drool......this means i would have to replace all my PRI Gas busters....

I'll take em...:D

Josh3239
09-03-2009, 12:43 PM
How often does roll pins in the CH fail?

The cheaper ones fail surprisingly easily when ran hard. Good ones will last longer than most things on the rifle but that isn't the issue. The issue is that even on the good quality ones, the other extentions exert a lot of pressure on roll pins, when ran hard enough these extentions will either break the rollpin or themselves. Again, it isn't an issue if your aren't running the extentions/tac latches.

I know Pat Rogers from EAG has a large box full of stuff that failed during his carbine courses; springs, triggers, bolts, extractors, gas rings etc and he does have plenty of charging handles in that collection.

818gtiguy
09-03-2009, 12:44 PM
Ive never heard of a case with my past 3 or 4 years on various gun forums. I feel like it is fixing a non-existent problem. With that said I think Im going to get one because I like the latch.

I have been in the AR game for a couple of years now and I have seen a couple of CH roll pins break...One on a PRI Gas Buster and one LMT CH....Those roll pins are pretty thin and tiny...

odysseus
09-03-2009, 12:44 PM
Anyone seen the issue with loading the pressure on one side of the handle, as in the provided picture, causes it to wear funny? I have seen this with the badger ordnance additions and how the charging handle can get chewed up. I think it is good to have an extended release, but you should normally engage the CH on both sides and straight out.

aplinker
09-03-2009, 1:08 PM
Ive never heard of a case with my past 3 or 4 years on various gun forums. I feel like it is fixing a non-existent problem. With that said I think Im going to get one because I like the latch.

I just had a roll pin replaced on a Colt CH.

If it can break, I'll break it.

Looks like a well thought out design - the PRI combat latch is my current fav latch, though I like the price of the LMT CH.

For all the upgrades, I won't mind paying what it would cost for a std CH + PRI Latch.

DREADNOUGHT78
09-03-2009, 1:29 PM
I am gonna try one of these...
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/detailed_inc/P6259916.jpg

mds2004
09-03-2009, 1:32 PM
It looks like I just baby my guns too much. That was my regret with my first sports car. I definitely could have had more fun with it than I did :(

C4iGrant
09-03-2009, 1:41 PM
How often does roll pins in the CH fail?

Very often. Just broke my PRI GB CH the other day.


C4

Beelzy
09-03-2009, 1:46 PM
That's nice.

So much attention paid to a part that gets used only once in a Firefight is a
bit odd though.

C4iGrant
09-03-2009, 1:48 PM
Ive never heard of a case with my past 3 or 4 years on various gun forums. I feel like it is fixing a non-existent problem. With that said I think Im going to get one because I like the latch.

Happens all the time.


C4



http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/ga/ul/516103873/inlineimg/Y/Ft_Meade_July_2008_171.jpgLF.jpg

http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/ga/ul/607103873/inlineimg/Y/Altha_FL_Mar_2008_087.jpgLF.jpg

http://www.azbattlerifles.com/images/m1s.JPG

Josh3239
09-03-2009, 1:49 PM
That's nice.

So much attention paid to a part that gets used only once in a Firefight is a
bit odd though.

One could hope. Though when a malfunction does happen during a firefight, I don't think you want your charging handle breaking when your trying to clear the rifle.

C4iGrant
09-03-2009, 1:51 PM
That's nice.

So much attention paid to a part that gets used only once in a Firefight is a
bit odd though.


It might not even be used in a "firefight."

The problem is when you TRAIN for said "firefight", you do lots of malfunction drills. This is when CH's fail.


C4

reidnez
09-03-2009, 2:03 PM
How often does roll pins in the CH fail?

I've personally never seen it, in the military or as a civilian. It is, of course, possible.

Keep in mind that in the real world, you aren't slapping the charging handle that often. You're going to rack a round once initially, and from then on you're either going to hit the paddle (dry reloads) or simply leave a round in the chamber (tactical reloads.) The charging handle is used to initially load the weapon to condition 1, to clear it at the end of the day, and to clear malfunctions...that's it. Of course, when it comes to training you might use it way more extensively (i.e. malfunctions drills.)

Still, I do like the looks of it from an ergonomic perspective. And it is conceivable, with some of the extended latches that many folks are using now, that enough force could be applied to break the roll pin.

fusionstar
09-03-2009, 2:10 PM
Good design. But I have rarely used my charging handle in the past couple range trips now only to press check and unload..Weapon is always locked back and in the ready.

Texas Boy
09-03-2009, 2:37 PM
I am gonna try one of these...
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/detailed_inc/P6259916.jpg

I just put one on my rifle about 3 weeks ago. Nice idea, but has 2 drawbacks:

1. I get much more gas in my face. Even with glasses on I've felt gasses burn my eyes a few times - never noticed that before with a standard latch, and no, my AR is NOT suppressed. Might be possible with some tape, silicon, or other material to correct this problem.

2. If the bolt is already locked back, you must depress a tiny button on the left side of the latch to release the latch. I realize most people use the paddle to release the bolt in this circumstance - but there is an argument that only using the charging handle simplifies the manual of arms and avoids fine motor skills (which deteriorate under stress). Also consider that if you go to grab the charge handle under stress, not realizing that the bolt is already locked back, this handle is not going to release - causing a brief WFT moment. Not good.

Still waiting for the ideal charge handle.....

Barney Gumble
09-03-2009, 3:17 PM
Good design. But I have rarely used my charging handle in the past couple range trips now only to press check and unload..Weapon is always locked back and in the ready.

If you only shoot at the range under controlled circumstances you don't need anything more than a standard charging handle, and maybe a spare "just in case". They're only $25 after all.

The only people I can think of who truly "need" this are people who take a lot of carbine classes and/or are in the military or LE.

I have several ARs and cost-wise it doesn't make sense for me to put expensive charging handles on all of them (I have never broken one) so I just run standard ones and keep a spare handy.

fusionstar
09-03-2009, 3:59 PM
If you only shoot at the range under controlled circumstances you don't need anything more than a standard charging handle, and maybe a spare "just in case". They're only $25 after all.

The only people I can think of who truly "need" this are people who take a lot of carbine classes and/or are in the military or LE.

I have several ARs and cost-wise it doesn't make sense for me to put expensive charging handles on all of them (I have never broken one) so I just run standard ones and keep a spare handy.

yep, USGI CH work fine. I have a backup badger gen II if I do break it. But with the rarity of me using it almost tells me this would be part that rarely fails with normal no abuse range use. Which most of my shooting is.

Someone should mount a 2x4 to a servo and smack CH's around for an hour and see which ones give first.

Shane916
09-03-2009, 4:57 PM
So they had these in stock..I added to the cart...got to checkout...entered my CC and address..and by the time I clicked place order...SOLD OUT...:mad:

SMGLee
09-03-2009, 4:59 PM
A lot of you only think of a charging handle's task as to loading your rifle once....or twice or a RARELY used item......

If you take a carbine class, or if you are serious in the art of carbine fighting.... you tend to practice those drills often, just to do an emergency action drill, remove magazine, lock back bolt, rack bolt several times.... just a simpleEAD drill require you to crank on your charging handle several times in one drill and you are supposed to practice a drill until it is embedded in your brain. now you get an idea how often your charging handle are utilized...not to mention the mosr simple immediately action drill, tap mag, roll gun to ejection side, rack charging handle... it is to be used every time you have a stopage... in a Jeff gonzales class, you end up doing it everytime you run dry prior to a reload..ok, you are not serious about carbine fighting art, then this item just look damn good.

Yes, it is great cuz the part looks great, but it is actually a great add on to your carbine. it is really unlike buying a titanium firing pin becasue it is cool....

piedrarc
09-03-2009, 5:01 PM
F:censored:ing bad ***. BCM is top notch.

Merc1138
09-03-2009, 5:04 PM
A lot of you only take the path of charging handle task as to loading your rifle once....or twice or a RARELY used item......

If you take a carbine class, or if you are serious in the art of carbine fighting.... you tend to practice those drills often, just to do an emergency action drill, remove magazine, lock back bolt, rack bolt several times.... just a simpleEAD drill require you to crank on your charging handle several times in one drill and you are supposed to practice a drill until it is embedded in your brain. now you get an idea how often your charging handle are utilized...

Yes, it is great cuz the part looks great, but it is actually a great add on to your carbine. it is really unlike buying a titanium firing pin becasue it is cool....

Or you simply don't like the feel of the stock charging handle and latch.

till44
09-03-2009, 5:31 PM
I think the fact that it prevents the CH from tilting is the the best improvment. I have put a lot of strain on that little pin and never had one break but I hate when the CH pulls to the right as you rack it back.

Josh3239
09-03-2009, 5:49 PM
I've personally never seen it, in the military or as a civilian. It is, of course, possible.

You likely won't see it in the military. Their charging handles are made out of the right metals, not cheap junk like some of the lower end companies and them using the regular latch (as opposed to extended or tactical latches) puts minimum strain on the roll pin.

aplinker
09-03-2009, 8:06 PM
I think the fact that it prevents the CH from tilting is the the best improvment. I have put a lot of strain on that little pin and never had one break but I hate when the CH pulls to the right as you rack it back.

I'm still trying to figure out how they can say that part, though.

I actually understand how this design is working to alleviate stress on the roll pin - using two points of binding the latch within the CH, instead of of one and the roll pin - but I still don't see how that would change where the force is applied and thus prevent torque.

You're still applying the force from an off-center orientation, so there is still a torque.

till44
09-03-2009, 8:12 PM
I'm still trying to figure out how they can say that part, though.

I actually understand how this design is working to alleviate stress on the roll pin - using two points of binding the latch within the CH, instead of of one and the roll pin - but I still don't see how that would change where the force is applied and thus prevent torque.

You're still applying the force from an off-center orientation, so there is still a torque.

I'm not sure either but am willing to give it a shot. I know that there is a definite difference in amount of tilt in my CHs though. My LMT one is nice and tight with just a little tilt, CMMGs and RRAs are a bit more and the Bushie is just no good.

Bowser
09-03-2009, 9:32 PM
Saw this over on m4carbine grant, gonna order one from you soon.

SJgunguy24
09-03-2009, 10:07 PM
What's the big deal? S*** can the roll pin and replace with a rivet.

Easy enough problem solved.

The DRis
09-03-2009, 11:09 PM
I'm getting one because I am a VLTOR whore....:drool5:

Haha me too.

And Magpul.

And KAC.

Only thing I don't like is BCM putting their logo all over EVERYTHING. I got the idea from them to engrave my BCG. But I don't want theirs on every part on my AR.

ar15barrels
09-04-2009, 12:27 AM
Drool......this means i would have to replace all my PRI Gas busters....

Send them my way. ;)

C4iGrant
09-04-2009, 6:02 AM
Saw this over on m4carbine grant, gonna order one from you soon.

Thanks.


C4

RECCE556
09-04-2009, 6:06 AM
No plans on replacing my GB's with these as the GB do serve an additional function but on my standard CH guns, I would say these are the way to go...too bad they're not $25. :) I think the "perfect" (or actually "near perfect") CH would be a combination of the PRI's GB with the Vltor/BCM handle...that way you get all the features in one. Still doesn't solve the off-center torque which is still a concern....or "same-as-righty" functionality for lefty/support side but that's not a major issue for me.

What's the big deal? S*** can the roll pin and replace with a rivet.
Easy enough problem solved.
Take a good look at the charging handle and see how it interacts with your upper then come back with a reevaluation of your suggestion. ;)

Drool......this means i would have to replace all my PRI Gas busters....
Send them my way. ;)
Whore...oh who am I kidding, I'll take some too!

it is really unlike buying a titanium firing pin becasue it is cool....
Yeah but the TiN coated ones from DPMS are the HEAT!! ;)

C4iGrant
09-07-2009, 8:03 AM
A lot of you only think of a charging handle's task as to loading your rifle once....or twice or a RARELY used item......

If you take a carbine class, or if you are serious in the art of carbine fighting.... you tend to practice those drills often, just to do an emergency action drill, remove magazine, lock back bolt, rack bolt several times.... just a simpleEAD drill require you to crank on your charging handle several times in one drill and you are supposed to practice a drill until it is embedded in your brain. now you get an idea how often your charging handle are utilized...not to mention the mosr simple immediately action drill, tap mag, roll gun to ejection side, rack charging handle... it is to be used every time you have a stopage... in a Jeff gonzales class, you end up doing it everytime you run dry prior to a reload..ok, you are not serious about carbine fighting art, then this item just look damn good.

Yes, it is great cuz the part looks great, but it is actually a great add on to your carbine. it is really unlike buying a titanium firing pin becasue it is cool....

Agree. I think some people would benefit greatly from some carbine training.



C4

technique
09-07-2009, 8:17 AM
I like the Mod4. I have been running PRI CHs for a good long while now.

I'm having a hard time figuring out how the "tilt" issue is improved upon...but what the heck, my PRI is bombed on in the tilt department :)

For those that seem to feel the CH is a useless device to upgrade....think again. They really do take a beating when you are clearing a malfunction with someone screaming at you to get back in the fight!

C4iGrant
09-21-2009, 9:14 AM
These are now in stock!

C4

Merc1138
09-21-2009, 9:20 AM
You guys need to work on picking up your phone more often

C4iGrant
09-21-2009, 9:24 AM
You guys need to work on picking up your phone more often

Oh sure. I would love to do nothing more than answer the phone all day. We have a full time store front, large internet business and own another business on top of all this and it is just my wife and I. So answering the phone is hard and often times, not really necessary as most everything we sell is on our website or can be discussed via e-mail (which we are very fast on).



C4

Merc1138
09-21-2009, 9:44 AM
Sorry, it's just the truth. If I have questions for a reseller about something, and I want to get an answer and a means of contact is listed, yet contact via that method appears unavailable, I'll consider handing my CC info to someone else. It wasn't just 1 time that I called, and yes I'm aware of timezone differences so it's not like I was trying to call at 4:30pm PST.

C4iGrant
09-21-2009, 9:49 AM
Sorry, it's just the truth. If I have questions for a reseller about something, and I want to get an answer and a means of contact is listed, yet contact via that method appears unavailable, I'll consider handing my CC info to someone else. It wasn't just 1 time that I called, and yes I'm aware of timezone differences so it's not like I was trying to call at 4:30pm PST.

So how many times did you actually try to get us? Two?
We do in fact answer the phone, but not always.

Website orders also tend to always go out ahead of phone orders (FYI) so it is always better to put the order in via the website.

C4

Eckolaker
09-21-2009, 9:49 AM
Oh sure. I would love to do nothing more than answer the phone all day. We have a full time store front, large internet business and own another business on top of all this and it is just my wife and I. So answering the phone is hard and often times, not really necessary as most everything we sell is on our website or can be discussed via e-mail (which we are very fast on).

I spoke with your wife on Thursday, she picked up after the second ring. :)

I sent in an order on Friday, of course now you guys have these in stock now. Curses!

Merc1138
09-21-2009, 9:50 AM
over the course of 3 days, called probably 5 times.

Ronco
09-21-2009, 9:51 AM
These are cool.

Eckolaker
09-21-2009, 9:52 AM
So how many times did you actually try to get us? Two?
We do in fact answer the phone, but not always.

Website orders also tend to always go out ahead of phone orders (FYI) so it is always better to put the order in via the website.

C4

Your wife was very helpful when I called Thursday, I was going to be paying by Money Order and she told me to add my items to the cart and print the order and mail it.

All things considered, very easy way of getting those over the phone orders in without spending all day on the phone.

Jicko
09-21-2009, 9:59 AM
A question: Does the latch go 90degree to the long part of the CH?

Comment: The large one seems to be "large", may suffer the same issue as the large badger latch... ie. if you do "safe & hang" of your rifle, the latch may catch onto your chestrig, belt or gear, then potentially bumping the bolt off lock...

Comment2: The medium one seems to be fine

Comment3: My fav is still LMT Tactical CH


PS. Grant, welcome here, on Calguns, come on more frequent, and bring your good stuffs!!!

Bowser
09-21-2009, 12:00 PM
Ordered my stuff.