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View Full Version : USI Concord ARs and newbies


Darklyte27
09-03-2009, 6:57 AM
So I went to the range yesterday to shoot some of my 308 reloads and pistol.
As I got done shooting around 12ish, more people arrived at the range, some with kids some younger 20s guys.

A older guy with a AR with just about everything you could put on it light, fake laser? eotech, magnifier, rails, grip etc etc was about to uncase the rifle on the bench, so I spoke up and said you have to uncase that on the bench. "oh ok" and he did.

Next the buzzer sounded off, and he was playing with the charging handle and let it stay forward. So I asked, is it locked back?

He replied " oh its a AR they dont lock back"...

So i quickly got up and showed him how to lock it back, and the 20 yr olds a bench over had a AR as well, they were shooting for the last 30 mins, and noticed they didnt have it locked back either.

I asked is it locked back? they replied "it cant" and he was pushing the bolt release. So I showed him as well.

I was already packed up to goto the pistol side as i had an hour before I had to leave so I didnt spend any time to go over the basics of ARs with them but hopefully they remembered how to lock the bolt back from now on.

Hopefully, if you guys see some newbies that need help, you will help them out. ROs dont always come and check because usually theres not many people on weekdays and its usually regulars who shoot knowingly how to operate their gear.

G-Man WC
09-03-2009, 7:33 AM
Good approach rather than taking the Mr. Know it all approach with them Darklyte27. I've seen that scenario before where some who barley knew what they were doing try and give advise or teach with bad results or confrontation ensuing. -g

rkt88edmo
09-03-2009, 7:48 AM
and you could let them know that for any firearm which doesn't lock back, you can flag the chamber with a pencil, pen, or stick to keep it visibly out of battery for the ceasefire.

"it doesn't lock back" is never an ok excuse.

BigEd925
09-03-2009, 7:53 AM
I noticed more and more young bucks with ARs (im 26) show up at USI and have no idea on how to operate them. One got very upset that I was shooting my M44 next to him. I was there first and he needs to grow a pair or move over. I have helped plenty of people and answered numerous questions about EBR. Direct them to Calguns and hope they educate themselves.

Darklyte27
09-03-2009, 8:13 AM
hm, maybe at the next meeting if I go, I or someone else can bring up the issue about newcomers with ARs and maybe someone can give a quick class on ARs on a preset date?

Or maybe if new comers shooting at USI should be asked if they know how to operate their gun, and if not can be shown basic operation and safety lesson before they head to the shooting benches

Reason being, because these two incidents, the line was not ready to go down to change targets just yet but can be avoided and not delay other shooters.

thetaxman
09-03-2009, 6:44 PM
Or maybe if new comers shooting at USI should be asked if they know how to operate their gun

Perhaps different colored range safety cards - one for Pistol/Bolt action and then another one when you add any AR type weapon?

bruceflinch
09-03-2009, 9:33 PM
Darklyte, you get a gold star! Nice job. I don't shoot on the publice range a lot. When I do, I keep an eye out for people who: need help, are clueless & stupid &/or dangerous. It keeps me safer too. Call me selfish!

Most people, when approached kindly, will respond in kind. I'm sure those guys appreciated the knowledge.

During the week, the RO has his hands full as it is, with nobody walking the line. If a guy is clueless & rebuffs your attempt to help, then I would notify the RO & let him call a ceasefire & deal w/ a dork. During the weekend, you can just flag down the line RO.

USI used to require a demonstration of gun safety, per the gun. That seems to have disappeared. You might bring that up w/ the RO, to see what they think. Unless you have a NRA Instructor rating, they won't be setting up a class. Classes for Public Education out there have never been well attended.

rkt88edmo
09-04-2009, 8:16 AM
Or maybe if new comers shooting at USI should be asked if they know how to operate their gun, and if not can be shown basic operation and safety lesson before they head to the shooting benches


How do you tell a newcomer from an oldbee? Once they have a safety card how do you know what it will cover? You can't necessarily even tell what they will be shooting until they uncase, so inspect all arms before they can go down the line?

Current system has some shortcomings, but I think improving it would be difficult.

Inkman
09-04-2009, 9:23 AM
At least have 1 RO during the week. Weekends are another story. Sometimes it's so busy that 2 can't nearly cover everybody and then it gets empty and 2 are 1 too many. No easy answer.

Blue
09-04-2009, 9:29 AM
Heh before OLL's I was at USI and some old timer tried to school me with my Fab10. He didn't like the spent brass I had in it holding the bolt open and tried to show me how it was done. There's no bolt catch on the older Fab10's :p

Inkman
09-04-2009, 8:32 PM
Darklyte, you get a gold star! Nice job. I don't shoot on the publice range a lot. When I do, I keep an eye out for people who: need help, are clueless & stupid &/or dangerous. It keeps me safer too. Call me selfish!

Most people, when approached kindly, will respond in kind. I'm sure those guys appreciated the knowledge.

During the week, the RO has his hands full as it is, with nobody walking the line. If a guy is clueless & rebuffs your attempt to help, then I would notify the RO & let him call a ceasefire & deal w/ a dork. During the weekend, you can just flag down the line RO.

USI used to require a demonstration of gun safety, per the gun. That seems to have disappeared. You might bring that up w/ the RO, to see what they think. Unless you have a NRA Instructor rating, they won't be setting up a class. Classes for Public Education out there have never been well attended.

Saw you sunday as i was leaving Bruce. Anyway i've said it before and i'll say it again this weekend in person to the line people. When they are giving people their purple card speech, make sure they are LISTENING!!!!!! It has almost become an inside joke on which new shooter will get yelled at first, because when you walk by and they are getting their intro speech, most seem as if they are just day dreaming about tomorrows episode of American Idol and not listening to what they are being told. Grrrr...just one of my peeves.

Darklyte27
09-05-2009, 1:46 PM
My example is a great one, watching the guy leave his AR bolt locked back and telling me it doesnt have a bolt catch.

How do you tell a newcomer from an oldbee? Once they have a safety card how do you know what it will cover? You can't necessarily even tell what they will be shooting until they uncase, so inspect all arms before they can go down the line?

Current system has some shortcomings, but I think improving it would be difficult.

BananaTyrant
09-05-2009, 2:40 PM
USI used to require a demonstration of gun safety, per the gun. That seems to have disappeared. You might bring that up w/ the RO, to see what they think. Unless you have a NRA Instructor rating, they won't be setting up a class. Classes for Public Education out there have never been well attended.


As far as I know you do need to demonstrate gun safety with the gun to get your purple card. After that though you don't need to again though. They'll also usually let you shoot once or twice without one. I've shot there once with my Dad's revolver a couple years ago, then again a few months ago with my .22 rifle, and they just told me I need to get a card if I want to shoot there again after that day.

joelogic
09-05-2009, 2:41 PM
I may get crap for this but I think this OLL thing is starting to turn into a fad. I was shooting next to a guy that spent nearly 10 minutes trying to figure out how to charge his AR. When I started talking to him he said it was his first gun and he had watched youtube to learn how to assemble the lower. The guy on the other side of my was shooting his AR with a Noveske 18" upper and a 3-9 nightforce hitting 8" groups at 50 yds. When I first started shooting a bought a 10/22 and a 870. The thought of buying an AR never crossed my mind. I only bought an AR when I started shooting 3 gun. People need to stop trying to be cool and wasting money, spend it on training and ammo. If you bought a gun to fight then train, if you bought it to show off at least learn how to operate it.

bruceflinch
09-05-2009, 9:37 PM
As far as I know you do need to demonstrate gun safety with the gun to get your purple card. After that though you don't need to again though. They'll also usually let you shoot once or twice without one. I've shot there once with my Dad's revolver a couple years ago, then again a few months ago with my .22 rifle, and they just told me I need to get a card if I want to shoot there again after that day.

Well last Sunday was the 3rd time I shot at the Public Range this year. I took my wife's receptionist & her son up to shoot. The RO that gave the spiel was very nice & informative, but there was 6 people in the group & no one touched a gun, to get their "Barney Card" .

Librarian
09-05-2009, 10:03 PM
Those things actually come in cards? When my son and I went out, I dunno, 10 years ago? we got purple slips of paper. Lost it long ago.

rkt88edmo
09-05-2009, 10:34 PM
Those things actually come in cards? When my son and I went out, I dunno, 10 years ago? we got purple slips of paper. Lost it long ago.

that is the same purple safety card they use now.

battleship
09-05-2009, 10:52 PM
My AR wont lock the bolt back, after the last round is fired, not sure why and not sure if because the caliber is 7.62x39 though i doubt that has anything to do with it.

I just stick a spent casing in the bolt cavity, that way the RO can easily spot it.

I to shoot at concord range, sorry but AR's are not a fad, fads are only temporally, AR's are here to stay as long as the laws permit it.

Frankly i think there are some shooters out there who are old school bolt actions only and resent the AR crowed a little.

Cool they are, even sexy, and dang if they dont make a fat person look good holding one.

Oh and there so much fun to shoot, none of that one arm bandit bolt loading.

Mind you im sure i personally will graduate to the serious rifles eventually.

joelogic
09-06-2009, 10:36 AM
Are you using the right mag follower? My C-products mag hold back the bolt on my 7.62x39 AR upper.

You gave examples making my point. :D Fads are not necessarily temporary, they just burn hot and fade quickly. Jeans come and go as fades but everyone still wears jeans. Acid wash jeans, torn knee jeans, bright color jeans, fashion jeans. But everyone will always blue jeans. This is the point I make, yea AR will be around forever, but they should be a tool (or maybe a toy) but not a fashion piece.

Here are the fads I hope die.
1. Kel tec's with ACOGs.
2. Guns with Bipods and foreward grips.
3. Magpul fanboys.

Well maybe not that much bothers me, ending rant now.



My AR wont lock the bolt back, after the last round is fired, not sure why and not sure if because the caliber is 7.62x39 though i doubt that has anything to do with it.

I just stick a spent casing in the bolt cavity, that way the RO can easily spot it.

I to shoot at concord range, sorry but AR's are not a fad, fads are only temporally, AR's are here to stay as long as the laws permit it.

Frankly i think there are some shooters out there who are old school bolt actions only and resent the AR crowed a little.

Cool they are, even sexy, and dang if they dont make a fat person look good holding one.

Oh and there so much fun to shoot, none of that one arm bandit bolt loading.

Mind you im sure i personally will graduate to the serious rifles eventually.