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DK9mm
09-02-2009, 9:52 PM
Has anyone used one of these?

Are they still made?

Is a standard bullet button better?

I did a search to try and find different bullet button types and this came up.

MAG-LOCKŪ.

It looks like a 14 side hex screw and the unit is flush with the lower as if it is pressed in all the way.

Thoughts?

professorhard
09-02-2009, 9:55 PM
Are you talking about the prince-50? That's an obsolete design. Get an AR raddlock.

Lateralus
09-02-2009, 9:55 PM
I use one. Its called the Prince50. You can still find it at any online CA friendly retailer.

I think the BB is better. Toploading sucks. Plus, the P50 is easily misused if you misunderstand the intended use of it. You DO NOT BACK OUT THE SET SCREW unless you go featureless or out of state.

Personally, I love the Raddlock. Best of both worlds.

aplinker
09-02-2009, 10:23 PM
somewhere, SAS is smiling.

The former maker of that lock is no longer a member here.

It's vastly inferior from a functionality perspective to any of the myriad of bullet buttons currently available.

DK9mm
09-02-2009, 11:24 PM
Understood. Due to my lack of experience, at first glance it appeared to be something that would only allow you to remove the magazine if you used a special hex head tip to back out the button.

Are there any other products made that will lock your mag in the receiver to where you have to pop the upper To remove the magazine as if to reload from the top?

DK9mm
09-02-2009, 11:50 PM
Here is where I found it.


http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=42478&page=3

mds2004
09-02-2009, 11:51 PM
Understood. Due to my lack of experience, at first glance it appeared to be something that would only allow you to remove the magazine if you used a special hex head tip to back out the button.

Are there any other products made that will lock your mag in the receiver to where you have to pop the upper To remove the magazine as if to reload from the top?

Do you prefer this to the bullet button style?
There is prince 50 which is the cleanest. Before that design came out I used $1 of parts from Lowes.

Get a black folding cap and thread a 10-32 nut onto the mag release. To fit it though you will have to file it down or hit it with a dremel. Close the cap after all said and done and you will be pretty happy for your $1 maglock, minus the fact its obsolete to the bullet button design.

I love my raddlock.

Jesse996r
09-03-2009, 12:24 AM
I like the Prince 50 BB

SDshooter
09-03-2009, 6:44 AM
^^^ Me too.

DK9mm
09-03-2009, 11:23 AM
I was just looking to see what options are out there. I was looking for something that can be installed to where the ONLY way to remove the magazine would be to remove the upper via the pin just like top loading.

This bolt option, will I have to drill or dremel the lower to make this work?

How does it look?

mds2004
09-03-2009, 11:46 AM
I was just looking to see what options are out there. I was looking for something that can be installed to where the ONLY way to remove the magazine would be to remove the upper via the pin just like top loading.

This bolt option, will I have to drill or dremel the lower to make this work?

How does it look?

NO, you will not have to drill or dremel your lower. In fact I will say you should probably never do so unless doing it to tap for the rear detent pin.

The black cap is a little enclosure that acts as a washer. You put it onto the mag release, then thread on the bolt. Then you thread on the 10-32 nut which has been cut down to fit in the black enclosure. After screwing it on, you simply close the enclosure as the cap is attached. I no longer have any pictures as it was about three or so years ago. This enclosure is in the nuts and bolts isle. Just buy a size 8 (maybe 10?) black enclosure. It should be like $0.40.

DK9mm
09-03-2009, 11:59 AM
Cool. So just so I am understanding your description, when this is all said and done the mag will not be able to be removed unless I take the upper open/ off or do I have to remove the bolt from the outside?

Thanks for you help and patience.

asgalindez
09-03-2009, 12:20 PM
Dude, people have been coming up with all kinds of mag locks to make mag reloading easier. Then I read your thread where you want to reverse engineer it so it becomes more difficult? Removing the upper to do a mag change? WTF???

Do you work for DOJ BOF?:eek:

Bullet Button or Raddlock. It don't get no easier than that in CA, unless you got a RAW.

Sounds like you'd be better off with the Bushmaster with the sealed magwell.:rolleyes:

shark92651
09-03-2009, 1:04 PM
Yeah, I don't get this thread at all. There is nothing to be gained by adding a step of removing the upper in order to remove the magazine. As long as it requires a tool to remove it you are fine. Just use a Bullet Button or Raddlock and call it a day. If you are truly paranoid and want to be forced to top-load, then just buy a Prince50 and top load.

What mds2004 is describing is basically a home-built Prince50 that prevents you from pushing the magazine release. With his solution, you do NOT have to remove the upper in order to remove the mag release, you just remove the bolt he placed into the end of the magazine catch (which is located where the original magazine release button used to be - on the right-hand side of the lower receiver.

If you REALLY want a solution that requires removing the upper in order to use your tool to remove the magazine, you will probably have to drill into your lower receiver from the top so that you can insert a bolt that is tapped into your magazine release. I can't imagine why you would want to do this though :confused:

DK9mm
09-03-2009, 2:30 PM
I was only looking for what options are out there. I like the prince 50 as you need to insert a tool AND turn the device to remove it. That extra step FOR ME is ok. Just trying to learn and determine which options are best for me.

Phanuel
09-03-2009, 2:37 PM
And construct an illegal "assault weapon" while changing the mag on a Prince50? Brilliant!

asgalindez
09-03-2009, 3:31 PM
I was only looking for what options are out there. I like the prince 50 as you need to insert a tool AND turn the device to remove it. That extra step FOR ME is ok. Just trying to learn and determine which options are best for me.

DO NOT DO THIS IN CALIFORNIA!

If you back out the set screw on a Prince50 (while in California) to drop the mag, you have just defeated the 'mag lock' and you now have an 'assault weapon'. Prince50 mag locks in CA were meant for top loading, NOT mag dropping. People who 'do that extra step' in CA do not know how to follow the law, and are the reason people get in trouble with their OLLs.

The reason for the set screw is so when you go to a free state, you just have to loosen the set screw to have a free-state rifle. In CA, you keep the set screw in tight to have a neutered CA rifle. If you loosen the set screw IN CA, you have what is considered an assault weapon and you are treated as a criminal.

Check out the following link regarding the Bullet Button & Prince50:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=150568&highlight=bullet+button+prince50

DK9mm
09-03-2009, 3:45 PM
NO! I am NOT looking to create something illegal. No way! If I understand the prince 50 design you have to unscrew it in order to remove the magazine to clean/ teardown the rifle. The BB needs a punch action with the tip of something to operate. The Prince 50 seems to require more work which seems safer so there is no way to remove magazine without doing the unscrewing action which I would never do while evil features are on the rifle.

I am sorry if what I said caused confusion.

asgalindez
09-03-2009, 3:53 PM
NO! I am NOT looking to create something illegal. No way! If I understand the prince 50 design you have to unscrew it in order to remove the magazine to clean/ teardown the rifle. The BB needs a punch action with the tip of something to operate. The Prince 50 seems to require more work which seems safer so there is no way to remove magazine without doing the unscrewing action which I would never do while evil features are on the rifle.

I am sorry if what I said caused confusion.

Ok, cleaning is a whole different thing. You don't need to loosen it to tear down the rifle. You do need to loosen it if you want to clean the magwell or magazine itself. If you're just cleaning the rifle with a Prince50, then yes, remove the upper, back out the set screw, and remove the mag. But remove the upper. Definitely remove the upper.

You didn't mention anything about cleaning, so we assumed you were talking about mag dropping. I still think a Bullet Button or Raddlock is a simpler choice, unless you plan to take it out-of-state a lot.

ns209
09-03-2009, 3:57 PM
does anyone know if with the b16 bb u can insert a bullet to realese mag?

DK9mm
09-03-2009, 4:06 PM
Sorry to all for the confusion. What I was looking for is something that locks the mag in place so there could be no "accidential drops". The unscrewing of the prince 50 forces the top loading which is what I was wanting as this is ok for me.

Thanks to all for the feed back and advice!

asgalindez
09-03-2009, 4:09 PM
does anyone know if with the b16 bb u can insert a bullet to realese mag?

I'm pretty sure that's why it's considered a bullet button. Tip of a .223 FMJ should work.

fourZero
09-03-2009, 5:29 PM
Yes, a round works just fine on a B-16. I think the B-16 is far superior to any other design out there, but I could not get mine to stay put without a tiny drop of loctite (blue).

Mute
09-03-2009, 7:40 PM
I can't imagine how one "accidentally" releases the magazine on an AR with a BB or raddlock. It takes a very deliberate action to insert something into that tiny whole, just as deliberate as unscrewing the lock on a P50 maglock.

DK9mm
09-03-2009, 8:28 PM
Ok. Isn't the P50 and the BB Raddlock just about the same?

How small is the hole on the BB?

I do not have one yet, this is why I am asking questions and gathering information.

aplinker
09-03-2009, 8:41 PM
Ok. Isn't the P50 and the BB Raddlock just about the same?

How small is the hole on the BB?

I do not have one yet, this is why I am asking questions and gathering information.

You're crossing your terminology.

Prince50 is a manufacturer.

He makes lots of different mag locks, including his original (set-screw, permanently fixed) design and the first implementation of the Bullet Button.

Hence, there's the "Original Prince50" - which has to be top loaded - and what is most often referred to as simply "THE bullet button (BB)" which can be released for reloading by using a tool. It's also referred to as the "Prince50 Bullet Button."

Here's the Prince50 original, notice the set screw that prevents depressing the button:
http://www.coldwarshooters.net/images/prince50.jpg

Here's the original Prince50 bullet button, notice the outer shroud (which prevents finger depression) and the inner part you depress with a tool to drop the mag:
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1857/pa110022600x450rl6.jpg


Radd is another maker, who does a bunch of locks for various rifles. His "AR Raddlock" is a bullet button in the sense that is can use a tool to drop the mag for reloads.

Here is the AR Raddlock, it has two positions for use:
http://www.raddlock.com/raddlock_product/ar_raddlock/p1_animate.gif
http://www.raddlock.com/raddlock_product/ar_raddlock/p2_animate.gif

Lastly, there's the B-16 bullet button which uses a shroud that's attached to the rifle at a special hammer pin. This is an "in the white" version - it's actually black.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j97/Toolbox-X/B-16/IMG_8918.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j97/Toolbox-X/B-16/IMG_8929.jpg

DK9mm
09-03-2009, 8:54 PM
Understtod. THANK YOU uclaplinker for the pictures! It really helps me see the difference. I have started my build and this is my next step thus ALL the questions/digging.

It looks like the B-16 when installed can still allow the button to be pressed with something narrow. Is this correct? this is my first time looking at the B-16.

Does the lower need to be drilled/modified?

aplinker
09-03-2009, 8:56 PM
Understtod. THANK YOU uclaplinker for the pictures! It really helps me see the difference. I have started my build and this is my next step thus ALL the questions/digging.

It looks like the B-16 when installed can still allow the button to be pressed with something narrow. Is this correct? this is my first time looking at the B-16.

Does the lower need to be drilled/modified?

Why don't you do a google search that looks like this "B-16 site:calguns.net"

That way, in the future, you can get the information you need.

There's also the "CGN Google Search" link in the menu bar above.

DK9mm
09-03-2009, 9:44 PM
somewhere, SAS is smiling.

The former maker of that lock is no longer a member here.

It's vastly inferior from a functionality perspective to any of the myriad of bullet buttons currently available.

uclaplinker - Where you reffering to this when you said the above? mid page 3

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...t=42478&page=3

For some strange reason I like this as there is no apperance of anything to press. It is flush and you can tell that a "tool" is needed and there is no mistaking about it.

It looks like it forces you to top load.

aplinker
09-03-2009, 9:47 PM
uclaplinker - Where you reffering to this when you said the above? mid page 3

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...t=42478&page=3

For some strange reason I like this as there is no apperance of anything to press. It is flush and you can tell that a "tool" is needed and there is no mistaking about it.

It looks like it forces you to top load.

broken link

Why do you need something that looks like you have to top load?

DK9mm
09-03-2009, 9:48 PM
Ok, the link didnt work. It is here from 2006:

Overview of different ways to build California legal rifles

page 3 mid way down.

DK9mm
09-03-2009, 9:57 PM
To be honest, I am looking for options for my new build. With all the stuff I have read on this forum about BB, P50 etc, I was just searching for options.

Maybe its just me but this device looks more like something that has to be "disassembled"

aplinker
09-03-2009, 10:13 PM
To be honest, I am looking for options for my new build. With all the stuff I have read on this forum about BB, P50 etc, I was just searching for options.

Maybe its just me but this device looks more like something that has to be "disassembled"

:confused: Maybe if you explained your reasoning, what you want, and why this would make more sense.

What does looking like it has to be disassembled gain you? Are you thinking about LE interactions?

Any that know about OLLs are going to know about BBs. If they don't know about OLLs then you just talk about the mag being fixed, for simplicity. There are literally 10's of thousands of BB OLLs.

DK9mm
09-03-2009, 10:39 PM
You are right. Maybe I am reading to much into this. My initial thought was to have something that would be completly legal but would require something a little more "specialized" ( hex head tip for unscrewing, pronged tip, etc.) to remove the mag for cleaning and such.

:)

Mute
09-03-2009, 11:46 PM
Both the locked mag option (which would require top loading at the range) and the mag drop options (BB, B16, Raddlock...etc) are completely legal. Anyone who tells you differently is full of crap. There is no wiggle room or fudging here. Legal or not legal. All of the above are legal.

The only way to land in hot water is to not use these devices as they were intended to be used and that would require a deliberate act. You can't accidentally break the law. You could do it out of ignorance, but functionally, it won't happen.