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GunOwner
09-02-2009, 12:44 AM
I just bought a big (for me) safe 24x40x60 - 600 lbs empty. The delivery guys will only get it to my garage. I want to get it upstairs. I live in the Lake Arrowhead area so it is a little hard to find help. Also, I do not want to ask strangers or neighbors as I like to keep the fact that I have a safe confidential for security reasons.

So any suggestions as to how I can best get it up a fairly narrow staircase by myself. I have seen some stuff on a stair walking hand truck or dolly - does anyone know where they rent them and if they would work on a narrow staircase with a 180 degree turn half way up? Does anyone know where I could rent one in the general area around Lake Arrowhead?

Are there professionals that will do it for a reasonable fee?

scoutsniper687
09-02-2009, 12:52 AM
Im imagining a normal wooden staircase would snap under 600 pounds of steel. Maybe not. Any way of hooking up a pulley system? that would be the easiest way I can think of...then again im not much of a thinker haha.

LesGrossman41510
09-02-2009, 1:28 AM
when i worked as a TV installer we had this little harness that makes it alot easier, sorry but it was a while ago so i cant remember off the top of my head.

The harness basically attaches to your waist, and then you get another person to attach to his waist, then you sling the harness underneath the object so that both of you are holding it up, so it distributes the weight so each person on each side would be lifting 300 pounds. Thats is extremely heavy and much more than the massive TVs we would carry in and out of houses. hire some strong Mfkers..

k1dude
09-02-2009, 1:43 AM
when i worked as a TV installer we had this little harness that makes it alot easier, sorry but it was a while ago so i cant remember off the top of my head.

The harness basically attaches to your waist, and then you get another person to attach to his waist, then you sling the harness underneath the object so that both of you are holding it up, so it distributes the weight so each person on each side would be lifting 300 pounds. Thats is extremely heavy and much more than the massive TVs we would carry in and out of houses. hire some strong Mfkers..

I've seen refrigerator delivery guys use those. Except they go around your waist and shoulders I think. I was told they move 1,000 lb refrigerators with those. But I don't think you can use them on stairs.

alex00
09-02-2009, 2:14 AM
In another life I used to deliver appliances. Our handtrucks had tracks on the back that allowed them to glide up staris. U-haul may rent a similar type of hand truck. Be sure the safe is strapped to the truck. You can probably do it with two or three people. If you pull on the truck as the bottom person pushes, you can go one step at a time. Double and triple check your clearances at the top of the stairs. If you have to turn make sure there is room to swing the truck and safe, while both are at about a 45deg angle. The last thing you want is getting to the top and realizing you don't have room to maneuver.

Another option is to line the stairs with boards and winch the safe up the staris on it's side. You may have to get creative with the winch mount, but you can do this yourself, assuming you can get the safe to the bottom of the stairs yourself.

If you have doors or windows large enough on the second floor, you may be able to use a forklift or hi-lift to get it up there.

I've taken some very heavy refrigerators upstairs. It was never easy or fun. If you are looking to pay someone to do it, stop by a local appliance store and talk to the delivery drivers. They may be willing to stop by after work and do it off the clock if the price is right.

randy
09-02-2009, 2:41 AM
I'd get used to the idea of the safe living in the garage. Or take it back and get two smaller ones you can bolt together.

Rule .308
09-02-2009, 2:43 AM
A 600 pound safe by yourself, upstairs no less :eek::eek::eek::eek: I've moved a few safes and I can tell you that a 600 pound safe upstairs by yourself is not happening. The first thing that you need to do is see if you can lift the door off of the hinges and do it in two trips. Get yourself a decent appliance dolly and one good buddy with a strong back. In a stairwell like that you are pretty much limited to one guy pushing and one guy pulling.

TurboS600
09-02-2009, 3:08 AM
I can't even imagine two guys getting a 600# safe up the stairs. Lifting 300# each sounds a little much AND taking a 90 degree corner 1/2 way up??? I, for one, would NEVER be the one underneath that beast pushing. I'm with the guy who suggested a forklift to an upstairs balcony and then push it through a door. Or get used to having it downstairs with most of your collection and get a MUCH smaller safe for some HD stuff for upstairs. GL brother.

SJgunguy24
09-02-2009, 4:26 AM
First off, don't try moving a 600lb safe by yourself. You'll end up in the hospital or the mourge.
Take the door off, that by itself is usally 25-40% of the total weight.
You need to spread the load, lay plywood on the stairs and attach it someway. If you don't, your gonna learn how to surf.

Also is it legal to install a safe like that on a second floor? You might want to check out the fire code.
If you wanted to go with a winch, we use Golo winches to pull HVAC shaft duct up through high rise buildings. Those are good for 1200lbs IIRC.
Be safe, don't wanna a story about you not being able to walk or something.

get2now
09-02-2009, 5:03 AM
Hire someone to move it for you. It may cost you a lot of money but to go up one flight of stairs with a 180 degree turn or even a 90 turn won't be possible by yourself. Specify in a contract that the movers will have to pay for all damages too.
I just moved a 450 pound safe by myself with a u-haul dolly but I didn't have any stairs to deal with and it was plenty hard.
Good luck,
G

B Strong
09-02-2009, 6:27 AM
First off, don't try moving a 600lb safe by yourself. You'll end up in the hospital or the mourge.

Take the door off, that by itself is usally 25-40% of the total weight.

You need to spread the load, lay plywood on the stairs and attach it someway. If you don't, your gonna learn how to surf.

Also is it legal to install a safe like that on a second floor? You might want to check out the fire code.

If you wanted to go with a winch, we use Golo winches to pull HVAC shaft duct up through high rise buildings. Those are good for 1200lbs IIRC.

Be safe, don't wanna a story about you not being able to walk or something.

+1000 - you have to have adequate help, you have to remove the door, and you'd better check out the specs on the structure before you insall a safe of that size on the second floor.

scc1909
09-02-2009, 7:42 AM
I just bought a big (for me) safe 24x40x60 - 600 lbs empty. The delivery guys will only get it to my garage. I want to get it upstairs. I live in the Lake Arrowhead area so it is a little hard to find help. Also, I do not want to ask strangers or neighbors as I like to keep the fact that I have a safe confidential for security reasons.

So any suggestions as to how I can best get it up a fairly narrow staircase by myself. I have seen some stuff on a stair walking hand truck or dolly - does anyone know where they rent them and if they would work on a narrow staircase with a 180 degree turn half way up? Does anyone know where I could rent one in the general area around Lake Arrowhead?

Are there professionals that will do it for a reasonable fee?
From what I can find on the web, second stories are typically rated at just 50 pounds per square foot (psf), which is why one typically sees only light furniture and personal items on the second story of houses. If I read your description of the safe correctly, you are planning to place a 90 psf load on a floor rated at only 50 psf... :eek:

As to your specific questions about getting the safe up the stairs, don't even THINK about asking someone to stand below and push. If the safe gets away from you, you will have a bloody pile of mush instead of a friend or neighbor... :(

On the presumption that your house's second story floor is rated at 100 psf or more, the only reasonable way to get the safe in there is to load it through a window using a fork lift. That may entail removing landscaping, fencing, etc., and the window and frame, and hiring professionals to do the actual work, but it can be done. This is how pianos and other large furniture pieces are often loaded into upper stories.

Realistically, the MUCH better option is to do what others have suggested. Return the safe for two smaller ones (presumably lighter...), or convert part of one garage space into a gun room. That's what my uncle did in his 2-car garage. Part of one bay was fully enclosed into a small room that holds his largish safe and a reloading bench. The Honda Civic goes in the remainder of that bay, with his F-150 in the other.

Good luck!

bronco1500
09-02-2009, 7:55 AM
If possible take the door off. A lot of weight is in the door!

Off the top of my head I'm seeing the safe put on its side. Ropes, pullies, A heavy duty car jack pushing from the bottom, and a winch pulling from the top. Get the thing moved a foot or so then lock it in place with a 4x6. You might need to screw down support boards into the studs to give a new spot to push/pull from

If it has to be done alone I think you could do it. Just spend the money and either rent or buy the tools.

Then again you could mount it in the corner of the garage and build a small cabinet out of 2x4's and plywood. ;)

GunOwner
09-02-2009, 7:57 AM
From what I can find on the web, second stories are typically rated at just 50 pounds per square foot (psf), which is why one typically sees only light furniture and personal items on the second story of houses. If I read your description of the safe correctly, you are planning to place a 90 psf load on a floor rated at only 50 psf... :eek:

As to your specific questions about getting the safe up the stairs, don't even THINK about asking someone to stand below and push. If the safe gets away from you, you will have a bloody pile of mush instead of a friend or neighbor... :(

On the presumption that your house's second story floor is rated at 100 psf or more, the only reasonable way to get the safe in there is to load it through a window using a fork lift. That may entail removing landscaping, fencing, etc., and the window and frame, and hiring professionals to do the actual work, but it can be done. This is how pianos and other large furniture pieces are often loaded into upper stories.

Realistically, the MUCH better option is to do what others have suggested. Return the safe for two smaller ones (presumably lighter...), or convert part of one garage space into a gun room. That's what my uncle did in his 2-car garage. Part of one bay was fully enclosed into a small room that holds his largish safe and a reloading bench. The Honda Civic goes in the remainder of that bay, with his F-150 in the other.

Good luck!

Thanks guys - excellent suggestions and thoughts. How would I find out what my floor is rated? The house was built in 1991 - I'm the third owner so I can't contact the original owner to find out. Sounds like I need to be sure it is safe to be up there before I move it up.

xibunkrlilkidsx
09-02-2009, 7:59 AM
leave it in the garage. simple as that. to much weight to try and move up stairs if something was to happen, slip loose balance etc. who ever is pushing is going to be SOL.

drawn
09-02-2009, 8:18 AM
If you have a balcony, a small crane as used in AC units run about 300.00.
For neighbor masking cover the exterior with whirlpool or Jacuzzi box prior to rigging.
You may have to brace the floor from the lower floor so picking a spot like over a garage would be helpful.
Seriously the best advice so far has been getting used to it being on the ground floor.

fcr
09-02-2009, 8:24 AM
I vote for small room in garage. It doesn't have to be anything more than a facade with enough room to open the safe .

gravedigger
09-02-2009, 8:40 AM
I have to go into a building in a moment to testify against a drunk driver :patriot: but I will return with your solution. It CAN be done alone, but it will require a bit of preparation. For the moment, leave the safe where it is. In the words of Arnold S... "I'll be back!"

SCMA-1
09-02-2009, 8:49 AM
I've moved lots of guns safes, upstairs included. Don't try it yourself; you should get help preferably from someone who has done it before.

- Remove the door and move it separately
- rent an appliance dolly from UHaul or any other equipment rental, http://www.taylorrental.com/item_detail.asp?id=23
- get assistance from at least 1 friend, more would be better.
- when negotiating stairs, person at the top balances and lifts safe securely strapped to dolly ONE STEP at a time while helper(s) at bottom lifts from bottom of safe and helps stabilize load. Stop at each step to rest and clearly communicate with your partner.
- to negotiate tight landing switch backs, you may have to unstrap the safe, reposition the dolly on a different side of the safe and re-secure the load to the dolly. Take measurements before hand of the safe and landings before you get there to verify everything will fit.

hoozaru
09-02-2009, 9:14 AM
Just leave it in the garage, and have it bolted down.

Dirtbiker
09-02-2009, 9:21 AM
To find out how your house was build head into the county dept of records and pull the info on your house.

Remove the door/s. True they are about 40% of the safe total weight. You can also rent an electric stair climbing dolly.

Personally I'd pay the $300 and get it moved professionally.

VaderSpade
09-02-2009, 9:33 AM
I just moved an 850-pound safe (with just me and my girlfriend); I rolled it along on 1 1/4" wooden dowels. I didn’t go upstairs with it but when I went to rent a truck with a lift gate, the guys at the rental place showed my a stair climbing dolly that was cheaper than the lift gate truck. This Dolly was battery powered, and could lift 1000 pounds on to the tailgate of a truck.
In the end I rented the truck with the lift gate because I hadn’t brought my truck into town that day, but that dolly (with a safety line) would get it upstairs.
The pounds per square foot thing is another issue. Just think of 600 pounds as three big guys standing together talking. The stairs should take 600 pounds, but if you can take the door off I would.
I will see if I can find a link to that dolly.

I have a 2200 pound safe that will need to be moved at some point, I’m not looking forward to that.

paul0660
09-02-2009, 9:35 AM
I was going to say two chubby guys kissing, but you get the idea, the floor will hold it.

VaderSpade
09-02-2009, 9:35 AM
Dirtbiker beat me to the electric stair climbing dolly, I'll still see if I can find a link.

akjunkie
09-02-2009, 9:40 AM
600 lbs empty, probably 1000lbs fully loaded.

i wouldnt be surprised if eventually the floor will "buckle" alittle under all that weight.

is Lake Arrowhead earthquake country? i'd keep it in the Garage and Bolt it down.

VaderSpade
09-02-2009, 9:41 AM
Google makes it easy; I would also check U-Tube to see just how they work.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=electric+stair+climbing+dolly&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

Call your local tool rental places, someone will have one. And tie a safety line above the safe and keep the slack out of it.

VaderSpade
09-02-2009, 9:44 AM
1000 pounds full; I don't want to even think of how many chubby guys kissing that is.

You may be able to reinforce the floor, but you would need to check with the building department, and do it right.

SCMA-1
09-02-2009, 9:47 AM
The weight of the safe upstairs shouldn't be a problem. I once had 2 safes (550lb, 750lb) side by side, fully loaded, in an upstairs bedroom for 7 years without a single issue.

SCMA-1

Beelzy
09-02-2009, 9:55 AM
Unless you want that safe on the bottom floor at some rude time, the floor
will HAVE to be reinforced.

Put it on the ground floor, garage bolted down sounds best.

cowboyup
09-02-2009, 9:58 AM
safe's and other heavy machinery can be moved by "machinery moving" companies using a tool called a "stair climber" electric device created to do just that, climb stairs with a heavy load.

Floors in buildings are rated in "live load" and "dead load" and deflection.

I suggest that you don't overlaod the floor with more than 60# per square foot without consulting an engineer.

For example, a safe that weighs 500# fully loaded and has a base dimension of 2' by 3' equals 6 square feet. Divide 500 into 6 and you come up with roughly 83#'s per square foot...I'd not do that if I had a choice.


Below is some info from the American Wood Counsel, considerations in the choice. Best of luck to you. Cowboy

-------------


The house acts as a structural system resisting dead loads (weight of materials), live loads (weights imposed by use and occupancy), like snow loads and wind loads. Beams, studs, joists and rafters act as a structural skeleton and must be strong enough and stiff enough to resist these loads.

Strength and stiffness are equally important. For example, first-floor ceiling plaster would crack as occupants walked across a second-floor bedroom that was framed with bouncy floor joists. Perhaps the joists were strong enough if they didn't break! But lack of stiffness leads to costly problems.

Stiffness of structural members is limited by maximum allowable deflection. In other words, how much a joist or rafter bends under the maximum expected load. Only live loads are used to calculate design values for stiffness.

Maximum deflection limits are set by building codes. They are expressed as a fraction; clear span in inches (L) over a given number. For example: a floor joist appropriately selected to span 10 feet with an L/360 limit will deflect no more than 120"/360 = 1/3 inches under maximum design loads. Drywall attached to the underside of this system is not expected to crack when the floor joist system deflects 1/3".

Typical deflection limits referenced in code books are L/360, L/240 or L/180. These limits are based on live loads and activities experienced in specific rooms of a house. Examples of code-prescribed deflection limits and live load values are:

Living room floors L/360 & 40 psf
Bedrooms and habitable attic floors L/360 & 30 psf
Attic floors with limited storage L/240 & 10 psf.
Strength of a material is obviously important. Joists, and rafters must be strong enough not to break when loaded. Unlike stiffness, live loads and dead loads are added together to determine minimum design values for strength.

"

Beelzy
09-02-2009, 10:32 AM
safe's and other heavy machinery can be moved by "machinery moving" companies using a tool called a "stair climber" electric device created to do just that, climb stairs with a heavy load.

Floors in buildings are rated in "live load" and "dead load" and deflection.

I suggest that you don't overlaod the floor with more than 60# per square foot without consulting an engineer.

For example, a safe that weighs 500# fully loaded and has a base dimension of 2' by 3' equals 6 square feet. Divide 500 into 6 and you come up with roughly 83#'s per square foot...I'd not do that if I had a choice.


Below is some info from the American Wood Counsel, considerations in the choice. Best of luck to you. Cowboy

-------------


The house acts as a structural system resisting dead loads (weight of materials), live loads (weights imposed by use and occupancy), like snow loads and wind loads. Beams, studs, joists and rafters act as a structural skeleton and must be strong enough and stiff enough to resist these loads.

Strength and stiffness are equally important. For example, first-floor ceiling plaster would crack as occupants walked across a second-floor bedroom that was framed with bouncy floor joists. Perhaps the joists were strong enough if they didn't break! But lack of stiffness leads to costly problems.

Stiffness of structural members is limited by maximum allowable deflection. In other words, how much a joist or rafter bends under the maximum expected load. Only live loads are used to calculate design values for stiffness.

Maximum deflection limits are set by building codes. They are expressed as a fraction; clear span in inches (L) over a given number. For example: a floor joist appropriately selected to span 10 feet with an L/360 limit will deflect no more than 120"/360 = 1/3 inches under maximum design loads. Drywall attached to the underside of this system is not expected to crack when the floor joist system deflects 1/3".

Typical deflection limits referenced in code books are L/360, L/240 or L/180. These limits are based on live loads and activities experienced in specific rooms of a house. Examples of code-prescribed deflection limits and live load values are:

Living room floors L/360 & 40 psf
Bedrooms and habitable attic floors L/360 & 30 psf
Attic floors with limited storage L/240 & 10 psf.
Strength of a material is obviously important. Joists, and rafters must be strong enough not to break when loaded. Unlike stiffness, live loads and dead loads are added together to determine minimum design values for strength.

"

There you have it folks, the World's longest and most complete, "I told you so" ever. :p

capo689
09-02-2009, 11:26 AM
I was gonna write you a response, but all the truth has been spoken. Now you just have to decide whether you want a Gun Safe in the garage or a Darwin Award :-)

cowboyup
09-02-2009, 12:26 PM
:mnl:There you have it folks, the World's longest and most complete, "I told you so" ever. :p

LOLOLOOL!:D

SCMA-1
09-02-2009, 12:29 PM
safe's and other heavy machinery can be moved by "machinery moving" companies using a tool called a "stair climber" electric device created to do just that, climb stairs with a heavy load.

Floors in buildings are rated in "live load" and "dead load" and deflection.

I suggest that you don't overlaod the floor with more than 60# per square foot without consulting an engineer.

For example, a safe that weighs 500# fully loaded and has a base dimension of 2' by 3' equals 6 square feet. Divide 500 into 6 and you come up with roughly 83#'s per square foot...I'd not do that if I had a choice.


Below is some info from the American Wood Counsel, considerations in the choice. Best of luck to you. Cowboy

-------------


The house acts as a structural system resisting dead loads (weight of materials), live loads (weights imposed by use and occupancy), like snow loads and wind loads. Beams, studs, joists and rafters act as a structural skeleton and must be strong enough and stiff enough to resist these loads.

Strength and stiffness are equally important. For example, first-floor ceiling plaster would crack as occupants walked across a second-floor bedroom that was framed with bouncy floor joists. Perhaps the joists were strong enough if they didn't break! But lack of stiffness leads to costly problems.

Stiffness of structural members is limited by maximum allowable deflection. In other words, how much a joist or rafter bends under the maximum expected load. Only live loads are used to calculate design values for stiffness.

Maximum deflection limits are set by building codes. They are expressed as a fraction; clear span in inches (L) over a given number. For example: a floor joist appropriately selected to span 10 feet with an L/360 limit will deflect no more than 120"/360 = 1/3 inches under maximum design loads. Drywall attached to the underside of this system is not expected to crack when the floor joist system deflects 1/3".

Typical deflection limits referenced in code books are L/360, L/240 or L/180. These limits are based on live loads and activities experienced in specific rooms of a house. Examples of code-prescribed deflection limits and live load values are:

Living room floors L/360 & 40 psf
Bedrooms and habitable attic floors L/360 & 30 psf
Attic floors with limited storage L/240 & 10 psf.
Strength of a material is obviously important. Joists, and rafters must be strong enough not to break when loaded. Unlike stiffness, live loads and dead loads are added together to determine minimum design values for strength.

"

That is not how that works. Think about what you are saying; you can easily exceed 50-60 psf just standing on the floor.

OlderThanDirt
09-02-2009, 12:33 PM
Dirtbiker beat me to the electric stair climbing dolly, I'll still see if I can find a link.

+1000. This is how Dean Safe move my 800 pound safe upstairs. Its a ONE MAN job. Do not have someone below the safe to help lift or balance. If you lose the safe, just let it go. Some guy below is not going to stop it and will most likely end up flattened below the safe. Its a ***** getting the stains out of the wood floor or carpeting.

As for the weight, some of the comments here are pretty funny. I weigh 225 lb and can stand with my feet together and don't fall through the floor. Unless your house that was built in 1991 was somehow not constructed to code, it will be able to handle the weight. Assuming that your floor cannot accommodate a 600 lb safe would be like not allowing more than one fat person at a time upstairs.

cowboyup
09-02-2009, 12:42 PM
That is not how that works. Think about what you are saying; you can easily exceed 50-60 psf just standing on the floor.

I apprecaite your comments..

but there is more to consider than people standing on the floor like the weight of the walls, structure loads transmitted down walls from the roof, the weight of the flooring, beams and deflection etc. etc. etc......if your interested in understanding it better I'd suggest learning more about live/dead load and deflection...

Take care

IsaacGlass
09-02-2009, 12:43 PM
Motorized dolly appliance stair climber

http://www.escalera.com/images/mla-hc.jpg


http://www.escalera.com/

http://track-o.com/Appliance-Hand-Truck

cowboyup
09-02-2009, 12:44 PM
Motorized dolly appliance stair climber

http://www.escalera.com/images/mla-hc.jpg


http://www.escalera.com/

http://track-o.com/Appliance-Hand-Truck

Exactly....

GunOwner
09-02-2009, 1:08 PM
You guys are awesome - I appreciate all these thoughts. I think I have some good options to think about on how to move it - seems like a stair climbing dolly up the stairs or a fork lift onto the balcony are the way to go.

My big concern now is about over stressing the floor. I wonder how I sort out the conflicting views on that. I must say the safe will be heavy - 600lbs empty and I WILL fill it )otherwise what;s the point - right). SO I am thinking 1000+lbs is perhaps on the low side a bit (40 guns at 10lbs average).

Obviously I am not really understanding the thoughtful engineering posts. My simple mind sees the logic in the comments about the 50lbs per square foot max contrasting with others real world experience. Fo example, I just went upstairs and hopped on one foot (I hope noone saw me cause I looked like an idiot); I weigh 240lbs and jumping up and landing on one foot had to increase to load on a one square foot area yet the floor barely creaked. That is not to say I am convinced it will hold the load. How do folks think I can solve this one without spending a fortune?

BTW the reason I want to avoid the garage if possible is to enhance the security and minimize condensation and dreaded rust in a four season climite up in Arrowhead. I might end up going that way but want to make the most educated choice I can.

cowboyup
09-02-2009, 1:11 PM
+1000. This is how Dean Safe move my 800 pound safe upstairs. Its a ONE MAN job. Do not have someone below the safe to help lift or balance. If you lose the safe, just let it go. Some guy below is not going to stop it and will most likely end up flattened below the safe. Its a ***** getting the stains out of the wood floor or carpeting.

As for the weight, some of the comments here are pretty funny. I weigh 225 lb and can stand with my feet together and don't fall through the floor. Unless your house that was built in 1991 was somehow not constructed to code, it will be able to handle the weight. Assuming that your floor cannot accommodate a 600 lb safe would be like not allowing more than one fat person at a time upstairs.

Older Than Dirt,

It is confusing...but engineering often is...Did you know that in the US the typical Residential LIVE load design is only 40#'s per square foot.....but this is only part of the picture....strength, and shear are part of it as is dead load...and deflection....there is a lot to consider when floor loading is discussed....and its east to overtake design when installing heavy things like fishtanks, fire safes, file cabinets...
There is significant safety margin built in as well....but its easier than you might think to overload a floor as compared to its design....

I'm out....later.





Wood Floor Design Loads


In the United States the minimum design floor live loads are usually stipulated in pounds per square foot (psf) by either state or local building codes. An example of typical design live loads might be 200 or 150 psf for a storage warehouse, 100 psf for a public meeting room, 50 psf for an office and 40 psf for a single family residence. So, your home most likely has the capacity to safely support a uniform live load of at least 40 psf. But keep in mind that this design live load is theoretically spread uniformly over the entire floor from wall to wall throughout your entire house. It is not a maximum load on any given area of the floor, it is just a theoretical average load that is used to design the floor for loads that are initially unknown. Some people find this confusing because in reality it is not the floor pressure (in psf) that matters at all, it is the floor load in pounds that really creates the stress in the primary structural framing members.

liketoshoot
09-02-2009, 1:28 PM
I can't believe you don't have enough friends in the area to help, If I was in Big Bear right now I'd offer to help and bring at least 2 other like minded friends along to help you. I will be moving my 750# safe in to my house in BB and have more offers then room for them, price for thier help, Food.

gn3hz3ku1*
09-02-2009, 1:32 PM
ever thought about this? ask the guys who are delivering it for you how much more it would cost for them to move it up the stairs?

GunOwner
09-02-2009, 1:34 PM
I can't believe you don't have enough friends in the area to help, If I was in Big Bear right now I'd offer to help and bring at least 2 other like minded friends along to help you. I will be moving my 750# safe in to my house in BB and have more offers then room for them, price for thier help, Food.

Thanks for pointing out I have no friends :( JK We just bought the house up there ans haven't moved in yet and due to my less than awesome personality I don't have a large number of friends and those I do have are old, fat and weak like me and live in and around Irvine so it's an all day thing to drive up and back.

Are you moving yours to the second floor? How did you get conformable with the weight issue?

GunOwner
09-02-2009, 1:43 PM
ever thought about this? ask the guys who are delivering it for you how much more it would cost for them to move it up the stairs?

Yeah - it was delivered by one guy - tailgate lift truck and a pallet jack - no way we could have done it without more bodies or equipment. Thanks

Saym14
09-02-2009, 1:47 PM
the stairs will hold the weight but normal second floor joists will not unless they are way overdesigned. if on the second floor it should only be directly over a load bearing wall. with that I would not put it up there ( I am a structural engineer) in MY house.

as far as getting it upstairs, dont you have 8 or 10 friends.

GunOwner
09-02-2009, 1:57 PM
the stairs will hold the weight but normal second floor joists will not unless they are way overdesigned. if on the second floor it should only be directly over a load bearing wall. with that I would not put it up there ( I am a structural engineer) in MY house.

as far as getting it upstairs, dont you have 8 or 10 friends.

Again pointing out my lack of friends - you guys are making me feel bad :(

wash
09-02-2009, 2:13 PM
I used an electric stair climbing dolly to move my 300 lb safe up a flight of stairs. It was easy but there was only one 90 degree turn.

I was worried about the load a little but everything seems solid, no deflection that I can see.

1,000 lbs might be different but I bet you could make something work.

Lancear15
09-02-2009, 2:27 PM
^^ exactly it is like your total roof load per a square foot, it isn't high, yet fat guys wont fall through it. People making points about this 40-50 lb/sq ft don't understand what the rating means

My work boot is about 5" by 12", lets round up and call it half a square foot. Lets say I weight 200 pounds. That would be 400 pounds per a square foot when standing on one foot. What about a guy that weights 350 pounds. OMFG 700 pounds a sqaure foot. Now what if the guy jumps up and down on one foot, the shock load is EASILY double that... so 1400 pounds per a square foot, surely he will fall right through your second story floor!!! I'm in the construction industry and have built houses from the foundation up before I got into electrical. The safe will be perfectly fine upstairs. As for doing it yourself, I would just pay someone to do it. But I like using the easy button more then some people.

Super Spy
09-02-2009, 2:41 PM
How about get one of those knock down safes? They weigh about the same assembled, but break down into components that could be handled by one person.....I've seen them on Ebay....Here's a place that offers them: http://www.dakotasafe.com/interlocxp.html

If you go the other route you should offer to cover the chiropractors bill for your friends.....then again a pro might be cheaper....

aplinker
09-02-2009, 4:16 PM
I solved this by using several small (<500lb)safes. I know it's not an option for you now. My big one I ended up putting at my folks' to solve the issue.

Get a moving company and don't stop calling them until you get one who acts like this isn't new. I've seen the results of otherwise.

paul0660
09-02-2009, 4:26 PM
That is not how that works. Think about what you are saying; you can easily exceed 50-60 psf just standing on the floor.

Fill a bedroom with 6 year old girls and it would collapse, right? The floor WILL take the strain.....but there is something else to consider............



GETTING IT DOWN AGAIN. Unless you are going to live there for the rest of you life, put the time and expense of getting it upstairs and put into more security in the garage. Build a nice little room.......with a fridge.......and microwave..........and bookshelf..............small tv/dvd.............

GraveTrain
09-02-2009, 5:34 PM
Did someone already do, "Lift with your legs and not with your back" already?

Sorry. Out.

jtv3062
09-02-2009, 6:53 PM
I'm waiting to see what gravedigger has to say

freonr22
09-02-2009, 7:04 PM
by the way I have an escalera stair climber rated @ 1250 and the optional 12x24" plate. if a reputable calgunner in the sf bay area has a need to borrow it. i have no problem with that. it would have to be picked up in san jose. it takes a little getting used to, personnaly i would not move anything over about 6-700 lbs with it. you would assume all liabilty for moving your own items, and if damaged would agree to replace/repair it. I have not found a place that rents them, you could try united rentals, cresco, etc. I would really get the original prints for the house if not a tract home, available from the city planning department to the owner. its called permit retrieval, and have someone that know how to move machinery head up the project. if in san jose, and it was made convienant, I have knowledge to do this. I have over 150 crane lifts and have moved quite a few 150hp motors/60hp pumps. its not pretty.

Gator Monroe
09-02-2009, 7:05 PM
You & the wife put it on a Skateboard & roll it out ?:chris:

SmurfinTactical
09-02-2009, 7:09 PM
First of all I would start by getting a membership to the nearest gym. I would then proceed to start lifting weights until I could lift around 650lbs (just to be safe) then I would pick up the safe and walk on up the stairs, problem solved :) Im just keeeding.

On a more serious note I would give in to the fact that you cant do this by yourself. If confidentiality is so paramount to you, just hire a moving company and keep the contents of the case secret, its not like they know your guns are going in there and your not gonna start loading stuff into the safe right infront of their eyes.

Side note: Dont know of my first smart *** suggestion has been made yet, but I could not resist.

liketoshoot
09-02-2009, 7:32 PM
GO, sent ya a PM

OlderThanDirt
09-02-2009, 7:57 PM
Older Than Dirt,

It is confusing...but engineering often is...Did you know that in the US the typical Residential LIVE load design is only 40#'s per square foot.....but this is only part of the picture....strength, and shear are part of it as is dead load...and deflection....there is a lot to consider when floor loading is discussed....and its east to overtake design when installing heavy things like fishtanks, fire safes, file cabinets...
There is significant safety margin built in as well....but its easier than you might think to overload a floor as compared to its design....

I'm out....later.





Wood Floor Design Loads


In the United States the minimum design floor live loads are usually stipulated in pounds per square foot (psf) by either state or local building codes. An example of typical design live loads might be 200 or 150 psf for a storage warehouse, 100 psf for a public meeting room, 50 psf for an office and 40 psf for a single family residence. So, your home most likely has the capacity to safely support a uniform live load of at least 40 psf. But keep in mind that this design live load is theoretically spread uniformly over the entire floor from wall to wall throughout your entire house. It is not a maximum load on any given area of the floor, it is just a theoretical average load that is used to design the floor for loads that are initially unknown. Some people find this confusing because in reality it is not the floor pressure (in psf) that matters at all, it is the floor load in pounds that really creates the stress in the primary structural framing members.

This is the point I was trying to make. The psf metric is not applicable to an individual square foot, but cumulatively over the entire floor or room. So a 10x10 sf room at 40 psf would accommodate 4,000 pounds. I've stood in front of my safe with at least two other large guys, with a total weight of approximately 1,500 pounds, not to mention all the other large items in the room, with absolutely no problem. This is also the reason that water beds don't crash through the floor when full and subjected to significant wave forces. ;)

Rob454
09-02-2009, 9:56 PM
yeah 600 pound safe by yourself up the stairs. You're either really strong or really well.........
Dude think about this . that would be like carrying three 200 pound men up the stairs ALL AT ONE TIME. Unless you can hook up a winch to your wall to winch it up the stairs its not gonna happen. WHY do you want it upstairs. Bolt it to the ground in the garage its not gonna go anywhere. I was gonna put my safe upstairs and its only 300 pounds and after moving it inside I said no way its going upstairs. And I can bench press about 320 LB easy.
It can be done but not by yourself. Either get some buddies to help or call a company that does save moves. If you do decide to doit yourself have your doctors phone # handy cause you'll need it.

Flux Capacitor
09-02-2009, 9:59 PM
I have an easy fix. You open up the safe, remove the sheetrock and make note of what goes where. Then the thing is just a shell. Two guys can easily move the shell. Then move the sheetrock upstairs in pieces. Reinstall and your done. Thats what I did

CaliJeff
09-02-2009, 11:30 PM
http://www.forearmforklift.com/

Weight capacity
700lbs./pair


I remember my dad left his safe in the garage but kept a pistol in his underwear drawer which he claimed he used to fight off the wild women.