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tonb
09-01-2009, 8:47 PM
What is the law that limits when you are allowed to legally carry a firearm?

As I recall you are only allowed to transport a firearm if you are going directly to someplace where you are allowed to have said firearm, but I can't seem to find the law that says so. My search-fu is weak, anyone?

GearHead
09-01-2009, 9:42 PM
What is the law that limits when you are allowed to legally carry a firearm?

As I recall you are only allowed to transport a firearm if you are going directly to someplace where you are allowed to have said firearm, but I can't seem to find the law that says so. My search-fu is weak, anyone?

Well, your question makes very little sense...with a few exceptions, you can "have" a gun pretty much anywhere as long as it isn't loaded. Do you want to bring the gun somewhere you are prohibited from possessing it? Please clarify.

8-Ball
09-01-2009, 9:58 PM
My take is that the OP is referring to transporting a firearm while traveling, or to the range, gunsmith, etc. is okay, while just having it locked appropriately in the car in your day to day travels isn't...

That is my understanding as well... but I may be misinformed...

E Pluribus Unum
09-01-2009, 10:13 PM
What is the law that limits when you are allowed to legally carry a firearm?

As I recall you are only allowed to transport a firearm if you are going directly to someplace where you are allowed to have said firearm, but I can't seem to find the law that says so. My search-fu is weak, anyone?

This is not legal advice.. this is how I understand the law:

There are two general classifications of firearms.

1) Long Guns

2) Concealable firearms (handguns)


1)Long guns can be transported concealed, on your person, slung over your shoulder, however one chooses provided it is unloaded. This means a rifle/shotgun can be transported as long as no ammo is phyically attached to the gun placed into a position it can be fired. (This means no round in the chamber, and no loaded magazine in the mag well). Everything else is basically legal.

2) Concealable firearms (handguns) are generally legal to carry openly (non-concealed). If carried within 1500 feet of a school, they must be in a locked container. If concealed, they must also be in a locked container. They must also be unloaded.

There are areas of the state where possession of any firearm is prohibited (School grounds, court rooms, us post office, et cetera).

The "specific destination" requirements that you speak of are in the concealed carry of firearms in locked containers but NOT in a vehicle. So if one is walking down the street with a concealed firearm in a locked case he must be en route to a specific destination listed in the code. if one is in a vehicle, no specific destination requirement exists.

Mstrty
09-01-2009, 10:22 PM
My take is that the OP is referring to transporting a firearm while traveling, or to the range, gunsmith, etc. is okay, while just having it locked appropriately in the car in your day to day travels isn't...

That is my understanding as well... but I may be misinformed...

I also believe that unless you want to litigate you right to self defense I would not call a movie theater or similar location as "reasonably necessary". If you have to tell a law enforcement officer (LEO) where you are going you should just tell him/her you are "going to see a friend". That way if you are later found to have a legal gun you didn't lie. I avoid telling LEO's I have a gun at all. Try not to tell tell the officer you are going to the range this would freak some LEO's out and have you on the ground in no time. (sorry LEO friends but its the truth).

12026.2(b) In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision (a),
while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall be
unloaded, kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision (d),
and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between
authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the
circumstances.

dantodd
09-02-2009, 12:19 AM
12025 and 12025.5 are the general proscriptions on bearing firearms in CA.


Exemptions to 12025 are covered in 12026.

while 12026.2(b) is one of the many exemptions and does require one to "not deviate except as "reasonably necessary" there is a more broad exemption in 12026.1(b) which states:
The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with this chapter.

I believe it is the considered opinion of the CGF leadership that this does not prohibit LUCC as a mode of carrying concealed.

tonb
09-02-2009, 6:52 AM
Thanks guys, sorry I may not have worded my question well. I think you guys figured it out though, it was something akin to the "trunk bat" thing where you can only legally have a baseball bat in your car if you are going to or from a game, or something to that effect.

I thought there was a similar law to prevent people from having a "trunk gun", worded so that you could only transport it via automobile directly to a place where you were legally allowed to have it, leaving from a place where you were legally allowed to have it and it sounds like that last line in 12026.2(b) is what I was thinking of, though I need to read detail on it re the not in a vehicle quote and the long gun provision. Either way, I think you guys answered my questions.

Thanks all!

Decoligny
09-02-2009, 7:03 AM
And now for the real answer with PC citations:

PC 12025 is the code that makes carrying a concealed concealable firearm illegal.
PC 12026.1 deals with the exemption for locked concealed carry in a motor vehicle.
PC 12026.2 deals with the exemptions for locked concealed carry by any means of travel other than motor vehicle.

The key thing to remember is that 12026.1 and 12026.2 are EXEMPTIONS clauses. They are not requirement clauses. They say "If you do it this way, then 12025 doesn't apply". They DO NOT say "If you don't do it this way then 12025 applies".

When dealing with transporting a concealable firearm in a motor vehicle you are fine pretty much anywhere you want to travel (school property and colleges are covered in another section of PC) as long as the gun is unloaded and locked in either the trunk, or in a locked secure container.

PC 12026.1 make this legal.

12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm, the firearm is contained within a locked container.
(b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with this chapter.
(c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device.

When transporting a concealable firearm by any other means of transport (not motor vehicle) such as walking, skateboard, bicycle, stilts, or any other means of travel, you must be going to, or coming from a specific location listed in PC 12026.2

12026.2. (a) Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following:
(1) The possession of a firearm by an authorized participant in a motion picture, television, or video production or entertainment event when the participant lawfully uses the firearm as part of that production or event or while going directly to, or coming directly from, that production or event.
(2) The possession of a firearm in a locked container by a member of any club or organization, organized for the purpose of lawfully collecting and lawfully displaying pistols, revolvers, or other firearms, while the member is at meetings of the clubs or organizations or while going directly to, and coming directly from, those meetings.
(3) The transportation of a firearm by a participant when going directly to, or coming directly from, a recognized safety or hunter safety class, or a recognized sporting event involving that firearm.
(4) The transportation of a firearm by a person listed in Section 12026 directly between any of the places mentioned in Section 12026.
(5) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going directly to, or coming directly from, a fixed place of business or private residential property for the purpose of the lawful repair or the lawful transfer, sale, or loan of that firearm.
(6) The transportation of a firearm by a person listed in Section 12026 when going directly from the place where that person lawfully received that firearm to that person's place of residence or place of business or to private property owned or lawfully possessed by that person.
(7) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going directly to, or coming directly from, a gun show, swap meet, or similar event to which the public is invited, for the purpose of displaying that firearm in a lawful manner.
(8) The transportation of a firearm by an authorized employee or agent of a supplier of firearms when going directly to, or coming directly from, a motion picture, television, or video production or entertainment event for the purpose of providing that firearm to an authorized participant to lawfully use as a part of that production or event.
(9) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going directly to, or coming directly from, a target range, which holds a regulatory or business license, for the purposes of practicing shooting at targets with that firearm at that target range.
(10) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going directly to, or coming directly from, a place designated by a person authorized to issue licenses pursuant to Section 12050 when done at the request of the issuing agency so that the issuing agency can determine whether or not a license should be issued to that person to carry that firearm.
(11) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going directly to, or coming directly from, a lawful camping activity for the purpose of having that firearm available for lawful personal protection while at the lawful campsite. This paragraph shall not be construed to override the statutory authority granted to the Department of Parks and Recreation or any other state or local governmental agencies to promulgate rules and regulations governing the administration of parks and campgrounds.
(12) The transportation of a firearm by a person in order to comply with subdivision (c) or (i) of Section 12078 as it pertains to that firearm.
(13) The transportation of a firearm by a person in order to utilize subdivision (l) of Section 12078 as it pertains to that firearm.
(14) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going directly to, or coming directly from, a gun show or event, as defined in Section 478.100 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, for the purpose of lawfully transferring, selling, or loaning that firearm in accordance with subdivision (d) of Section 12072.
(15) The transportation of a firearm by a person in order to utilize paragraph (6) of subdivision (a) of Section 12078 as it pertains to that firearm.
(16) The transportation of a firearm by a person who finds the firearm in order to comply with Article 1 (commencing with Section 2080) of Chapter 4 of Division 3 of the Civil Code as it pertains to that firearm and if that firearm is being transported to a law enforcement agency, the person gives prior notice to the law enforcement agency that he or she is transporting the firearm to the law enforcement agency.
(17) The transportation of a firearm by a person in order to comply with paragraph (2) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072 as it pertains to that firearm.
(18) The transportation of a firearm by a person who finds the firearm and is transporting it to a law enforcement agency for disposition according to law, if he or she gives prior notice to the law enforcement agency that he or she is transporting the firearm to the law enforcement agency for disposition according to law.
(19) The transportation of a firearm by a person in order to comply with paragraph (3) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072 as it pertains to that firearm.
(20) The transportation of a firearm by a person for the purpose of obtaining an identification number or mark assigned for that firearm from the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12092.
(b) In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision (a), while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall be unloaded, kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision (d), and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.
(c) This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with this chapter.
(d) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock, combination lock, or similar locking device. The term "locked container" does not include the utility or glove compartment of a motor vehicle.

8-Ball
09-02-2009, 7:21 AM
Excellent... thank you Dec...

M198
09-02-2009, 9:07 AM
2) Concealable firearms (handguns) are generally legal to carry openly (non-concealed). If carried within 1500 feet of a school, they must be in a locked container. If concealed, they must also be in a locked container. They must also be unloaded.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's still 1,000 feet from a school zone (new law hasn't passed yet) and you can carry an unloaded, concealable firearms in a locked container to and from any place you'd like except for sterile areas (court house, post office, etc).

Decoligny
09-02-2009, 10:35 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's still 1,000 feet from a school zone (new law hasn't passed yet) and you can carry an unloaded, concealable firearms in a locked container to and from any place you'd like except for sterile areas (court house, post office, etc).

1,000 feet is still the law.

As I posted earlier:

1. Unloaded, in a locked container, in a MOTOR VEHICLE, OK pretty much anywhere that you can drive.

2. Unloaded, in a locked container, NOT in a motor vehicle, restricted to going to and returning from the specific location in 12026.2.

So if you are riding your bicycle, skateboard, walking, riding a horse, or any other NON MOTOR VEHICLE, and have an unloaded firearm locked in a secure container in your backpack, you had better be going to, be at, or be coming back from one of the places listed in 12026.2.

dantodd
09-02-2009, 10:54 AM
2. Unloaded, in a locked container, NOT in a motor vehicle, restricted to going to and returning from the specific location in 12026.2.



I don't believe this is the considered opinion of the CGF legal eagles. Hopefully if I have misunderstood their policy on this wrt LUCC they will chime in.

Also, 12026.1(a) is for motor vehicle transport specifically (b) and (c) are general provisions and not limited to motor vehicle transport.

Librarian
09-02-2009, 6:21 PM
I don't believe this is the considered opinion of the CGF legal eagles. Hopefully if I have misunderstood their policy on this wrt LUCC they will chime in.

Also, 12026.1(a) is for motor vehicle transport specifically (b) and (c) are general provisions and not limited to motor vehicle transport.

Just a nit.

12026.1 (a), (b) and (c) are all one 'package'; (a) describes motor vehicle, (b) talks about other legal transport and (c) describes 'locked' etc in context of motor vehicles.

12026.2 repeats some of that, without the motor vehicle context, but adding the destination restrictions.

Since the 2 sections are covering 'motor vehicle' and 'not motor vehicle', together they seem to cover the whole range with locked case and 'otherwise lawful carrying'.

Someplace in assault weapon transport laws refers to 12026.1, I believe, for the 'locked case' definition.

dantodd
09-02-2009, 6:33 PM
Just a nit.

12026.1 (a), (b) and (c) are all one 'package'; (a) describes motor vehicle, (b) talks about other legal transport and (c) describes 'locked' etc in context of motor vehicles.

12026.2 repeats some of that, without the motor vehicle context, but adding the destination restrictions.


I don't think you are correct. 12026.1(c) defines locked case for all of 12026.1 (all of 12026 perhaps?) but is not specific to motor vehicles as it clearly refers to 12026.1(b) which is not limited to motor vehicles.

12026.2 destination restrictions apply only to 12026.2 exemptions I believe. Not to exemptions claimed under 12026(b)

Mstrty
09-02-2009, 6:35 PM
I had this great idea until you guys killed my party. I was just ramping up production to handle all the internet pre-sales. Oh well back to the safe goes my handgun. Here is was my prototype
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=30278&d=1249874900

Librarian
09-02-2009, 8:09 PM
I don't think you are correct. 12026.1(c) defines locked case for all of 12026.1 (all of 12026 perhaps?) but is not specific to motor vehicles as it clearly refers to 12026.1(b) which is not limited to motor vehicles.

12026.2 destination restrictions apply only to 12026.2 exemptions I believe. Not to exemptions claimed under 12026(b)

12061.1 was created by a different bill than 12026.2. All of 12026.1 is necessarily referring to the same thing, and that is the 'motor vehicle' context.

Similarly the bill creating 12026.2 created all the sub paragraphs together (although the list of places has since grown independently), and thus all of it refers to the non-motor vehicle context.

So, the places part refers to non-motor vehicle, and the locked case and what is locked is repeated in each so applies in each.

Not how -I- would have written it. :D

Took me years to separate the places part of .2 from the motor vehicle part of .1.

dantodd
09-02-2009, 10:29 PM
12061.1 was created by a different bill than 12026.2. All of 12026.1 is necessarily referring to the same thing, and that is the 'motor vehicle' context.

Similarly the bill creating 12026.2 created all the sub paragraphs together (although the list of places has since grown independently), and thus all of it refers to the non-motor vehicle context.


If this is the case what do "section" and "chapter" mean? Technical terms I know but does section refer to all of 12026 or just 12026.1 or 12026.2 etc? Chapter all of the 12000 series?

I ask because 12026(c) states: As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device.

While 12026.2(d) state: As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock, combination lock, or similar locking device. The term "locked container" does not include the utility or glove compartment of a motor vehicle.

If 12026.2 doesn't apply to motor vehicle transportation then you CAN use a glove box or utility compartment while transporting via motor vehicle since the legislature chose to exclude that proscription from 12026.1 while showing that they clearly "could" have included it had they intended to by putting it in 12026.2

swhatb
09-03-2009, 8:30 AM
specific places doesn't apply unless it's an AW.

the two sections are not related to one another.

if it's locked up, a handgun you can carry anywhere.

This is not legal advice.. this is how I understand the law:

There are two general classifications of firearms.

1) Long Guns

2) Concealable firearms (handguns)


1)Long guns can be transported concealed, on your person, slung over your shoulder, however one chooses provided it is unloaded. This means a rifle/shotgun can be transported as long as no ammo is phyically attached to the gun placed into a position it can be fired. (This means no round in the chamber, and no loaded magazine in the mag well). Everything else is basically legal.

2) Concealable firearms (handguns) are generally legal to carry openly (non-concealed). If carried within 1500 feet of a school, they must be in a locked container. If concealed, they must also be in a locked container. They must also be unloaded.

There are areas of the state where possession of any firearm is prohibited (School grounds, court rooms, us post office, et cetera).

The "specific destination" requirements that you speak of are in the concealed carry of firearms in locked containers but NOT in a vehicle. So if one is walking down the street with a concealed firearm in a locked case he must be en route to a specific destination listed in the code. if one is in a vehicle, no specific destination requirement exists.

Decoligny
09-03-2009, 8:56 AM
specific places doesn't apply unless it's an AW.

the two sections are not related to one another.

if it's locked up, a handgun you can carry anywhere.

If specific places doesn't apply unless it's an AW, then why does 12026.2 list specific places?

Specific places for AW is covered in PC 12285 and has nothing to do with 12026.2.

The "specific places" listed in 12026.2 are for transporting a concealable firearm, not an AW. They did not write 12026.2 for no reason. PC 12285 even refers to the AW being transported as required by 12026.1, not 12026.2.

12285. (a) (1) Any person who lawfully possesses an assault weapon, as defined in Section 12276, prior to June 1, 1989, shall register the firearm by January 1, 1991, and any person who lawfully possessed an assault weapon prior to the date it was specified as an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276.5 shall register the firearm within 90 days with the Department of Justice pursuant to those procedures that the department may establish. Except as provided in subdivision (a) of Section 12280, any person who lawfully possessed an assault weapon prior to the date it was defined as an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276.1, and which was not specified as an assault weapon under Section 12276 or 12276.5, shall register the firearm within one year of the effective date of Section 12276.1, with the department pursuant to those procedures that the department may establish. The registration shall contain a description of the firearm that identifies it uniquely, including all identification marks, the full name, address, date of birth, and thumbprint of the owner, and any other information that the department may deem appropriate. The department may charge a fee for registration of up to twenty dollars ($20) per person but not to exceed the actual processing costs of the department. After the department establishes fees sufficient to reimburse the department for processing costs, fees charged shall increase at a rate not to exceed the legislatively approved annual cost-of-living adjustment for the department's budget or as otherwise increased through the Budget Act. The fees shall be deposited into the Dealers' Record of Sale Special Account.
(2) Except as provided in subdivision (a) of Section 12280, any person who lawfully possesses any .50 BMG rifle prior to January 1, 2005, that is not specified as an assault weapon under Section 12276 or 12276.5 or defined as an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276.1, shall register the .50 BMG rifle with the department no later than April 30, 2006, pursuant to those procedures that the department may establish. The registration shall contain a description of the firearm that identifies it uniquely, including all identification marks, the full name, address, date of birth, and thumbprint of the owner, and any other information that the department may deem appropriate. The department may charge a fee for registration of twenty-five dollars ($25) per person to cover the actual processing and public education campaign costs of the department. The fees shall be deposited into the Dealers' Record of Sale Special Account. Data-processing costs associated with modifying the department's data system to accommodate .50 caliber BMG rifles shall not be paid from the Dealers Record of Sale Special Account.
(b) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), no assault weapon possessed pursuant to this section may be sold or transferred on or after January 1, 1990, to anyone within this state other than to a licensed gun dealer, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12290, or as provided in Section 12288. Any person who (A) obtains title to an assault weapon registered under this section or that was possessed pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 12280 by bequest or intestate succession, or (B) lawfully possessed a firearm subsequently declared to be an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276.5, or subsequently defined as an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276.1, shall, within 90 days, render the weapon permanently inoperable, sell the weapon to a licensed gun dealer, obtain a permit from the Department of Justice in the same manner as specified in Article 3 (commencing with Section 12230) of Chapter 2, or remove the weapon from this state. A person who lawfully possessed a firearm that was subsequently declared to be an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276.5 may alternatively register the firearm within 90 days of the declaration issued pursuant to subdivision (f) of Section 12276.5.
(2) A person moving into this state, otherwise in lawful possession of an assault weapon, shall do one of the following:
(A) Prior to bringing the assault weapon into this state, that person shall first obtain a permit from the Department of Justice in the same manner as specified in Article 3 (commencing with Section 12230) of Chapter 2.
(B) The person shall cause the assault weapon to be delivered to a licensed gun dealer, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12290, in this state in accordance with Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto. If the person obtains a permit from the Department of Justice in the same manner as specified in Article 3 (commencing with Section 12230) of Chapter 2, the dealer shall redeliver that assault weapon to the person. If the licensed gun dealer, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12290, is prohibited from delivering the assault weapon to a person pursuant to this paragraph, the dealer shall possess or dispose of the assault weapon as allowed by this chapter.
(3) Except as provided in paragraph (4), no .50 BMG rifle possessed pursuant to this section may be sold or transferred on or after January 1, 2005, to anyone within this state other than to a licensed gun dealer, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12290, or as provided in Section 12288. Any person who obtains title to a .50 BMG rifle registered under this section or that was possessed pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 12280 by bequest or intestate succession shall, within 180 days of receipt, render the weapon permanently inoperable, sell the weapon to a licensed gun dealer, obtain a permit from the Department of Justice in the same manner as specified in Article 3 (commencing with Section 12230) of Chapter 2, or remove the weapon from this state.
(4) A person moving into this state, otherwise in lawful possession of a .50 BMG rifle, shall do one of the following:
(A) Prior to bringing the .50 BMG rifle into this state, that person shall first obtain a permit from the Department of Justice in the same manner as specified in Article 3 (commencing with Section 12230) of Chapter 2.
(B) The person shall cause the .50 BMG rifle to be delivered to a licensed gun dealer, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12290 in this state in accordance with Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto. If the person obtains a permit from the Department of Justice in the same manner as specified in Article 3 (commencing with Section 12230) of Chapter 2, the dealer shall redeliver that .50 BMG rifle to the person. If the licensed gun dealer, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12290 is prohibited from delivering the .50 caliber BMG rifle to a person pursuant to this paragraph, thedealer shall dispose of the .50 BMG rifle as allowed by this chapter.
(c) A person who has registered an assault weapon or registered a .50 BMG rifle under this section may possess it only under any of the following conditions unless a permit allowing additional uses is first obtained under Section 12286:
(1) At that person's residence, place of business, or other property owned by that person, or on property owned by another with the owner's express permission.
(2) While on the premises of a target range of a public or private club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets.
(3) While on a target range that holds a regulatory or business license for the purpose of practicing shooting at that target range.
(4) While on the premises of a shooting club which is licensed pursuant to the Fish and Game Code.
(5) While attending any exhibition, display, or educational project which is about firearms and which is sponsored by, conducted under the auspices of, or approved by a law enforcement agency or a nationally or state recognized entity that fosters proficiency in, or promotes education about, firearms.
(6) While on publicly owned land if the possession and use of a firearm described in Section 12276, 12276.1, 12276.5, or 12278, is specifically permitted by the managing agency of the land.
(7) While transporting the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle between any of the places mentioned in this subdivision, or to any licensed gun dealer, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12290, for servicing or repair pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 12290, if the assault weapon is transported as required by Section 12026.1.....

Librarian
09-03-2009, 10:52 AM
If this is the case what do "section" and "chapter" mean? Technical terms I know but does section refer to all of 12026 or just 12026.1 or 12026.2 etc? Chapter all of the 12000 series?

I ask because 12026(c) states: As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device.

While 12026.2(d) state: As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock, combination lock, or similar locking device. The term "locked container" does not include the utility or glove compartment of a motor vehicle.

If 12026.2 doesn't apply to motor vehicle transportation then you CAN use a glove box or utility compartment while transporting via motor vehicle since the legislature chose to exclude that proscription from 12026.1 while showing that they clearly "could" have included it had they intended to by putting it in 12026.2

Augh! No!

Now you're trying to collapse 12026.1 and 12026.2 into one lump. (I did that for a long time. Nothing worse than a reformed smoker ...)

Gun stuff in the Penal Code is in
* Part 4 PREVENTION OF CRIMES AND APPREHENSION OF CRIMINALS [11006. - 14315.]

* Title 2 CONTROL OF DEADLY WEAPONS [12000. - 12809.]

12026 is in
* Chapter 1 Firearms [12000. - 12101.]

* Article 2 Unlawful Carrying and Possession of Weapons [12020. - 12040.]

and 12026, 12026.1 and 12026.2 are each separate sections

Or, as Findlaw (http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/PEN/3/4/2/1/2/s12026.1) displays it,

* FindLaw
* Codes and Statutes
* California Code
* Penal Code - PEN
* PRELIMINARY PROVISIONS
* Part 4
* Title 2
* Chapter 1
* Article 2
* Section 12026.1

I believe "(a)" is a sub-section, but I don't have the terms for the finer granularity.

So 12026.1(a)(1) says (1)The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment.

12026.2(d) says (d)As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock, combination lock, or similar locking device. The term "locked container" does not include the utility or glove compartment of a motor vehicle.

In this place, the reference to 'utility or glove compartment of a motor vehicle' really makes no sense, because it would be rather difficult to pick up a motor vehicle and use it for foot-transport, locked-container carry.

But BOTH places say 'utility or glove compartment of a motor vehicle' doesn't qualify for 'locked container'.

dantodd
09-03-2009, 11:33 AM
Augh! No!


That is why I asked what a legal "section" is.


But BOTH places say 'utility or glove compartment of a motor vehicle' doesn't qualify for 'locked container'.

Can you shoot me a link for that? The only version I have seen is on the AG's website and "utility or glove compartment" exclusion doesn't show up in 12026.1(c) on their version. HERE (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12020.php)

And what is the purpose for excluding those compartments in 12026.2 if the section doesn't apply to motor vehicles.

(BTW: I do realize my mistake in believing the "destinations" limitations do not apply to LUCC, it was a mere misreading.)

Decoligny
09-03-2009, 12:00 PM
That is why I asked what a legal "section" is.



Can you shoot me a link for that? The only version I have seen is on the AG's website and "utility or glove compartment" exclusion doesn't show up in 12026.1(c) on their version. HERE (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12020.php)

And what is the purpose for excluding those compartments in 12026.2 if the section doesn't apply to motor vehicles.

(BTW: I do realize my mistake in believing the "destinations" limitations do not apply to LUCC, it was a mere misreading.)

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

Check "Penal Code" and then type in 12026 in the search box. It will bring up the entire chapter. Scroll down to the appropriate section.

Regardless of whether or not 12026.2 applies to motor vehicles is really irrelevant.

12025 makes it illegal to conceal.
12026.1 is an EXECPTION CLAUSE which makes it legal to conceal (unloaded/locked up) in a motor vehicle with no restriction to when or where.
12026.2 is an EXEPTION CLAUSE which makes it legal to conceal (unloaded/locked up) when going to/from certain places. Since 12026.1 already makes an exception for motor vehicle concealed transport anywhere, that means that the place restrictions really only apply to all other methods of transport besides a motor vehicle.

Librarian
09-03-2009, 12:18 PM
That is why I asked what a legal "section" is.

(and thus my "reformed smoker" comment. Actually being one of those, it's sometimes hard not to snipe at somebody smoking. 99.99% of the time I keep my mouth shut, as I ought. Similar behavior with 12026.1 and .2 from me, since I was so wrong about it for so long - I apologize if that came out unfriendly.)

Can you shoot me a link for that? The only version I have seen is on the AG's website and "utility or glove compartment" exclusion doesn't show up in 12026.1(c) on their version. HERE (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12020.php)

And what is the purpose for excluding those compartments in 12026.2 if the section doesn't apply to motor vehicles.

(BTW: I do realize my mistake in believing the "destinations" limitations do not apply to LUCC, it was a mere misreading.)

Darned if I know why they bothered with the extra in 12026.2

Anyway:
12026.1 (http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/PEN/3/4/2/1/2/s12026.1)
12026.2 (http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/PEN/3/4/2/1/2/s12026.2)

Also, the CA official site, http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

Search on CA's site is merely awful. Search within codes in Findlaw seems to be impossible, but they've recently changed things a lot, so perhaps that capability is coming.

dantodd
09-03-2009, 12:51 PM
Darned if I know why they bothered with the extra in 12026.2

Anyway:
12026.1 (http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/PEN/3/4/2/1/2/s12026.1)
12026.2 (http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/PEN/3/4/2/1/2/s12026.2)

Also, the CA official site, http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

Search on CA's site is merely awful. Search within codes in Findlaw seems to be impossible, but they've recently changed things a lot, so perhaps that capability is coming.

Not to worry. I didn't take as unfriendly at all. I was only confused because you seem to be making the same mistake of combining the two sections that you warned against. The findlaw link and legalinfo.ca.gov link both jive with the AG's website and DO NOT exclude the glove or utility compartments in 12026.1 which is, presumably, the motor vehicle transport section.

The only plain reading of the code that makes glove/utility compartment storage illegal is to lump 12026.2 proscriptions to apply to 12026.1 which you have warned against.

Librarian
09-03-2009, 1:54 PM
:confused:

I see them in both. What am I missing?

CAL. PEN. CODE 12026.1 : California Code - Section 12026.1

(a)Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that the following applies to the firearm:

(1)The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment.

CAL. PEN. CODE 12026.2 : California Code - Section 12026.2

(a)Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following:
... (1 - 20)
(b)
(c)
(d)As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock, combination lock, or similar locking device. The term "locked container" does not include the utility or glove compartment of a motor vehicle.

Decoligny
09-03-2009, 2:15 PM
Librarian, You are missing nothing as far as I can tell.

Each contains the utility compartment of glove box terminology, only phrased slightly different.

I see the whole thing as pretty simple.

1. You can't carry a concealable firearm that is actually concealed per PC 12025.

2. PC 12026.1 says you can carry it concealed in a Motor Vehicle if unloaded and locked up properly.

3. PC 12026.2 says you can carry it concealed if unloaded and locked up properly going to or from the listed places.

Pick whichever exemption clause applies to you and use it.

It only takes ONE exemption clause to make it perfectly legal to conceal a concealable firearm.

You don't have to meet the exemptions in both.

grammaton76
09-03-2009, 2:28 PM
There was a fairly long thread on this a while back, where it was determined that one of the exemptions DOES apply to LUCC as long as you happen to sit down in between your times in a motor vehicle. You're in lawful occupancy/possession of your seat. I don't quite remember the logic chain, as it was pretty convoluted, but it was enough to convince me that LUCC is in fact legal. Thus, I practice it regularly. Including in the LEO-swarm-fest known as Galls, where I was summarily ignored. The world did not come to an end, nor did anyone inquire about the soft case with a padlock on it. Even though they sell the exact same style of concealment holster at that store. :)

dantodd
09-03-2009, 2:49 PM
:confused:

I see them in both. What am I missing?

Not you. Me. I don't know why they would put the glove/utility exclusion in the definitions area of .2 and in the exception description area of .1.


Thanks for pointing it out.