PDA

View Full Version : Question on Winchester model 1894 23-35 with Octagon barrel!!!


Sacjesusfreak
08-29-2009, 11:50 AM
Hey guys,

Wondering if someone can give me a little more info on my Winchester model 1894 25-35 with Octagon barrel. A tang sight was added to it. There is some pitting on the reciever and the lever. There is a chip in the stock. The Bore is in really good shape! Defanitly still a good shooter! The Serial is 9278** , If I checked on this right, I believe it was made in 1920??

Does the tang sight add, or deduct value ?( I was told it was worth alot by itself)


Is 25-35 w.c.f a good caliber for deer?

What is the highest this Rifle will sell for in this market in its condition?

http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww312/sacjesusfreak/Winchester%20model%201894/IMG_9183.jpg

http://s731.photobucket.com/albums/ww312/sacjesusfreak/Winchester%20model%201894/

Amacias805
08-29-2009, 12:04 PM
:useless:

Sacjesusfreak
08-29-2009, 12:16 PM
They are coming.. they are taking forever to loan on photobucket..

Sacjesusfreak
08-29-2009, 12:28 PM
I put up the link for the pics, as of now they are still uploading! thanks guys

Asphodel
08-29-2009, 1:37 PM
You can get a lot of different answers to those questions....... it will be interesting to see what different people here have to say......so, just purely for amusement, you understand, I'll start off......

Is the 25-35 a good caliber for deer?

The 25-35 is just the 30WCF or 30-30 necked down for a 25 cal bullet.....of course it will kill a deer.

(the 'catch' is that you have to get to a suitably close range, and place the bullet accurately in a vital area......plenty of deer have been killed with cartridges in this class....but the hunting skill required is more that if you are using, say, any of the Weatherby mags.)

The sight?.....its value/desirability depends on its condition (if, perchance, you have one of the uncommon dovetail windage adjustment variety, it has significant value) .

The Lyman and Marbles tang sights are quite valuable in the collectors market if new unused and in the original box. A used one of the common non-windage variety in 'mediocre' condition isn't worth much.

The rifle itself? Well, without a number of very sharp close-up photos, one can only guess.......if the pitting is relatively minor, it might sell well in excess of $500-ish.

Edited......I was able to go back and see the photos. What is the barrel length? I may be doing a bit of 'optical illusion' from the photos, but, if it is the 'standard rifle', the barrel length will be 26"......it seems to be shorter than that.

It appears to be the relatively quite uncommon 'short rifle, full magazine' variety.....which would be quite desirable to a Winchester collector, if only the condition was better. (The 'short rifle' configuration, with the octagonal, but carbine length barrel, was offered on a 'special order' basis, with either full-length or short magazine as ordered.....the 'feel' and 'balance' of a 'short rifle' are different from the carbine, and some users would prefer the 'short rifle') As it is, the relative rarity of that configuration might interest a collector, even tho the rifle is rather rough. The missing original rear sight would affect its value, as well.

All you can really do is look on the internet gun auction sites for 'comparables'. Note that many rough old Winchesters are offered by various dealers for rather 'dramatic' asking prices......but do they ever actually sell anywhere near the asking price?

cheers

Carla

jamesob
08-29-2009, 1:51 PM
i would say that if the site is period correct, it shouldn't hurt the value. on the other hand if was done poorly it most definitly would hurt.

Sacjesusfreak
08-29-2009, 5:50 PM
Hey Karla, How are you? How is the range going? I want to make it up that way sometime!

Thank you for the info! VERY helpful! I measured the barrel and it is 19 1/4 inches!( would that be considered as a 20")??? Does that make it a special order rifle? SO its called the "short rifle" or "carbine" ?

Thanks so much


You can get a lot of different answers to those questions....... it will be interesting to see what different people here have to say......so, just purely for amusement, you understand, I'll start off......

Is the 25-35 a good caliber for deer?

The 25-35 is just the 30WCF or 30-30 necked down for a 25 cal bullet.....of course it will kill a deer.

(the 'catch' is that you have to get to a suitably close range, and place the bullet accurately in a vital area......plenty of deer have been killed with cartridges in this class....but the hunting skill required is more that if you are using, say, any of the Weatherby mags.)

The sight?.....its value/desirability depends on its condition (if, perchance, you have one of the uncommon dovetail windage adjustment variety, it has significant value) .

The Lyman and Marbles tang sights are quite valuable in the collectors market if new unused and in the original box. A used one of the common non-windage variety in 'mediocre' condition isn't worth much.

The rifle itself? Well, without a number of very sharp close-up photos, one can only guess.......if the pitting is relatively minor, it might sell well in excess of $500-ish.

Edited......I was able to go back and see the photos. What is the barrel length? I may be doing a bit of 'optical illusion' from the photos, but, if it is the 'standard rifle', the barrel length will be 26"......it seems to be shorter than that.

It appears to be the relatively quite uncommon 'short rifle, full magazine' variety.....which would be quite desirable to a Winchester collector, if only the condition was better. (The 'short rifle' configuration, with the octagonal, but carbine length barrel, was offered on a 'special order' basis, with either full-length or short magazine as ordered.....the 'feel' and 'balance' of a 'short rifle' are different from the carbine, and some users would prefer the 'short rifle') As it is, the relative rarity of that configuration might interest a collector, even tho the rifle is rather rough. The missing original rear sight would affect its value, as well.

All you can really do is look on the internet gun auction sites for 'comparables'. Note that many rough old Winchesters are offered by various dealers for rather 'dramatic' asking prices......but do they ever actually sell anywhere near the asking price?

cheers

Carla

Asphodel
08-29-2009, 6:54 PM
Hmmm.....is that 19-1/4" a measurement from the front of the receiver to the muzzle?

If so re-measure, with the bolt closed, put a cleaning-rod down the barrel until it stops on the bolt., mark the cleaning-rod carefully at the muzzle, and measure the length from the mark to the tip.

If you get 20" with the barrel measured that way, your rifle could be an original Winchester 'short rifle' barrel.

Its also quite possible that you may have a standard rifle which was cut shorter and the sight dove-tail re-cut by some long-forgotten gunsmith.

The way to know the difference would be the position for the dovetail cut for the magazine band. I've got the drawings for the different Winchester barrels, and could look up these details.

If you'd like to take some accurate measurements of the cuts in the barrel, I could try to determine whether you've an original Winchester 'short rifle' or simply a modified standard one.

Be that as it may, the condition just 'kills' that one in terms of collectors' value......but, the stock is repairable, and it could be given a 'sort of' refinish without trying to polish out the pitting (that pitting can be seen to be too deep to polish out safely).......which would make it useful for 'Cowboy Action' type of shooting.

cheers

Carla

TRAP55
08-30-2009, 8:40 AM
I get a DOM of 1923, but that info comes from Madis and is only a close estimate. The manufacturer date, finish and assembly date, and shipping dates, sometimes have large gaps.
The sights are period correct, whether they were installed as a factory option, or by a previous owner, can only be determined by a letter from Cody. Same goes for the DOM.
As far as collector value, NEVER "refinish" anything! A good cleaning and rust removal is all that should be done, and done carefully. Buggered screw slots alone, can drop values by hundreds of dollars. Bore condition will dictate much of the value.
The 25-35 Win was introduced in 1895 for the Model 94, although extremely accurate, with little recoil, it was on the anemic side for deer sized animals.
For an accurate appraisal, contact Bert H. on the Gunbroker expert forums, and tell him Trap sent you. With clear close up pics, he can tell you things about the rifle most would miss, or be ignorant of. He does alot of research at the Cody Museum and can give you an exact shipping date.
He'll most likely be at the Big Reno Show in Nov., and you could get an honest hands on appraisal. He'll also walk you to the guys that he knows are the big time collectors that'll give you top dollar for it.
Email him at: Win1885@msn.com

Sacjesusfreak
08-30-2009, 3:40 PM
Hey thanks alot I appreciate all of the info!


I get a DOM of 1923, but that info comes from Madis and is only a close estimate. The manufacturer date, finish and assembly date, and shipping dates, sometimes have large gaps.
The sights are period correct, whether they were installed as a factory option, or by a previous owner, can only be determined by a letter from Cody. Same goes for the DOM.
As far as collector value, NEVER "refinish" anything! A good cleaning and rust removal is all that should be done, and done carefully. Buggered screw slots alone, can drop values by hundreds of dollars. Bore condition will dictate much of the value.
The 25-35 Win was introduced in 1895 for the Model 94, although extremely accurate, with little recoil, it was on the anemic side for deer sized animals.
For an accurate appraisal, contact Bert H. on the Gunbroker expert forums, and tell him Trap sent you. With clear close up pics, he can tell you things about the rifle most would miss, or be ignorant of. He does alot of research at the Cody Museum and can give you an exact shipping date.
He'll most likely be at the Big Reno Show in Nov., and you could get an honest hands on appraisal. He'll also walk you to the guys that he knows are the big time collectors that'll give you top dollar for it.
Email him at: Win1885@msn.com