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View Full Version : Assistance needed: True? No new model of centerfire pistol since 1/1/2007


hoffmang
08-29-2009, 10:28 AM
I seem to recall seeing a document or a source that showed that no new makes and models of centerfire semiautomatic pistols have been rostered since 1/1/2007 (CLI, Mag Disconnect.) http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/ Only has recent additions.

Anybody recall or have an idea of how we can prove that fact correctly? Is it a false assertion?

-Gene

spencerhut
08-29-2009, 10:38 AM
I was saving the PDF's for a while, I'm pretty sure there have been new auto's on the list.

Ruger LCP & SR9 come to mind.

hoffmang
08-29-2009, 10:40 AM
If you've been saving the PDF's that would work. If it is just a couple that fact also works.

-Gene

hoffmang
08-29-2009, 10:42 AM
I love the Internet Archive:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/

-Gene

ojisan
08-29-2009, 11:01 AM
I was saving the PDF's for a while, I'm pretty sure there have been new auto's on the list.

Luger LCR & SR9 come to mind.
Fixed.
LCR is revolver.
Only the SR9 (approved end of 2008) and the RTF Glocks "grandfathered in", IIRC.

hoffmang
08-29-2009, 11:09 AM
The Internet Archive didn't archive 2007's "recently addeds" correctly. It looks like only the M&P's have come on since but those might have predated.

-Gene

rugit
08-29-2009, 11:13 AM
Fixed.
LCR is revolver.
Only the SR9 (approved end of 2008) and the RTF Glocks "grandfathered in", IIRC.

http://images.google.com/images?q=ruger%20lcp&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi

here you go dude

as you can see, the company called Ruger makes a pistol called the LCP. clearly this is not a revolver, i mean it doesn't look like one to me.

radioman
08-29-2009, 11:35 AM
that is a neat little pistol, not a revolver. my avatar is a revolver

Dr Rockso
08-29-2009, 11:39 AM
http://images.google.com/images?q=ruger%20lcp&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi

here you go dude

as you can see, the company called Ruger makes a pistol called the LCP. clearly this is not a revolver, i mean it doesn't look like one to me.

Yeah, but the LCP is not on the roster. The LCR is.

Off the top of my head the SR9 is the only auto pistol to get recently added to the list w/o being grandfathered (could be wrong on that).

bwiese
08-29-2009, 11:43 AM
Gene ...

The Ruger SR9 has only recently come onto the scene.
There was drama about its LCI visibility, as I recall.
I'd bet it's test filing+pplication/reapplication happened later than 1/1/2007.

I believe the S&W M&Ps were filed already by 2007. I notice no new M&Ps except for the desert brown versions, unsure those were in the pipeline or not.

[There may well have been some 1911s Rostered under "appreciable similarity" with different finishes/sights etc., unsure]

We need to look into the Glock 21SF drama. I think some stuff really got skirted on that gun.


[N.B. to other posters: the Ruger LCR is a revolver not needing mag disco/LCI features that autoloaders are required to have.]

rugit
08-29-2009, 11:51 AM
Yeah, but the LCP is not on the roster. The LCR is.

Off the top of my head the SR9 is the only auto pistol to get recently added to the list w/o being grandfathered (could be wrong on that).

oh yeah i see now. i thought he was trying to be a d*ck but now he was just saying that the LCR is easier to get on the list...

sevans
08-29-2009, 12:13 PM
Glock has managed to get several models grandfathered. The 21sf, 20sf, 29sf and the RTF models but the SR9 is the only semi added since the revised LCI rules went in to effect. Its LCI is one of the most ridiculous modifications I've seen.

motorhead
08-29-2009, 12:40 PM
what kind of noise does a dying roster make? i'd swear i heard one.

leitung
08-29-2009, 12:45 PM
I can't wait to drive a stake in the rosters heart..

They have effectively banned new models of Semi-Automatic handguns, that has to be a violation of DC v. Heller in some respect.

SwissFluCase
08-29-2009, 12:52 PM
The Walther PPS is glaringly absent from the list. It came out after 2007. Since everything else they carried before 2007 is on this list, I could only imagine they are unable to get the PPS on the roster. Maybe Walther can shed some light on their experience...

Regards,


SwissFluCase

Theseus
08-29-2009, 1:55 PM
What makes me mad is when the officers need to conduct an "e" check they never look for or at the CLI. . . I mean, it is there. . you can see it in the holster. . . It past the state test so it obviously works. . . why do you need it out of the holster?

elrcastor
08-29-2009, 2:51 PM
What makes me mad is when the officers need to conduct an "e" check they never look for or at the CLI. . . I mean, it is there. . you can see it in the holster. . . It past the state test so it obviously works. . . why do you need it out of the holster?

Well a lot of guns do not have an LCI so it's easier to train a one size fit's all solution, eg. Look in chamber/mag.

radioman
08-29-2009, 3:14 PM
What makes me mad is when the officers need to conduct an "e" check they never look for or at the CLI. . . I mean, it is there. . you can see it in the holster. . . It past the state test so it obviously works. . . why do you need it out of the holster?

Your point is well taken, however one could file it down and now you have one in the pipe and the CLI said you don't, so they check.

Theseus
08-29-2009, 3:46 PM
Well a lot of guns do not have an LCI so it's easier to train a one size fit's all solution, eg. Look in chamber/mag.

Your point is well taken, however one could file it down and now you have one in the pipe and the CLI said you don't, so they check.

I think those are pretty ridiculous arguments, but I'll allow them. I was expecting my comment to me more rhetorical.

But anyway, isn't the requirement to be able to see the CLI from some 10 feet or something?

elrcastor
08-29-2009, 4:16 PM
Well a lot of guns do not have an LCI so it's easier to train a one size fit's all solution, eg. Look in chamber/mag.

Your point is well taken, however one could file it down and now you have one in the pipe and the CLI said you don't, so they check.

I think those are pretty ridiculous arguments, but I'll allow them. I was expecting my comment to me more rhetorical.

But anyway, isn't the requirement to be able to see the CLI from some 10 feet or something?

They may be ridiculous arguments, but if i asked you to check your weapon to see if it was loaded or not and be 100% positive on the status, what would you do?

Meplat
08-29-2009, 4:37 PM
If you are that unfamiliar with a weapon you shouldn't be messing with it in public.:eek:

Well a lot of guns do not have an LCI so it's easier to train a one size fit's all solution, eg. Look in chamber/mag.

elrcastor
08-29-2009, 4:48 PM
that's for sure, I was refering to LEO training for how to handle a loaded check.

sierratangofoxtrotunion
08-29-2009, 5:36 PM
Possibly stupid question: the DOJ doesn't, say, issue a press release or something when they add models, do they?

radioman
08-29-2009, 6:06 PM
I think those are pretty ridiculous arguments, but I'll allow them. I was expecting my comment to me more rhetorical.

But anyway, isn't the requirement to be able to see the CLI from some 10 feet or something?

Is the argument ridiculous, or is 12031 ridiculous:eek:

Theseus
08-29-2009, 7:02 PM
Is the argument ridiculous, or is 12031 ridiculous:eek:

Why can't it be both?:TFH:

hoffmang
08-30-2009, 1:42 AM
The correct answer is that one and only one semiautomatic centerfire handgun has been approved as "not unsafe" since 1/1/2007 and it is the currently being recalled - it is the Ruger SR9.

-Gene

Mr.Pickles
08-30-2009, 5:25 AM
The correct answer is that one and only one semiautomatic centerfire handgun has been approved as "not unsafe" since 1/1/2007 and it is the currently being recalled - it is the Ruger SR9.

-Gene



I don't know why but this made me laugh. They approve a handgun that is recalled. :laugh:

tempdrummer
08-30-2009, 5:37 AM
I don't know why but this made me laugh. They approve a handgun that is recalled. :laugh:

Yeah all those people with XDM's and HK45's who keep losing hands just WISH they had great people, like we do, keeping us safe.


:rolleyes:

bwiese
08-30-2009, 10:44 AM
I don't know why but this made me laugh. They approve a handgun that is recalled. :laugh:

It can be recalled for many other reasons regardless of CA status.

The gun was approved (finally) because it passed California's specific rules for a safety test.

sierratangofoxtrotunion
08-30-2009, 12:12 PM
I don't know why but this made me laugh. They approve a handgun that is recalled. :laugh:

It makes me laugh too, but at the same time I'm not surprised in the least. They approved the Walther P22, then soon realized it had a threaded barrel. Not hard to figure that out, PLUS it was advertised this way. They continued to allow them to be sold for several years while they sorted out a fix with S&W which consisted of what amounts to putting a thread protector on with loctite.

bondmid003
08-30-2009, 5:40 PM
I think another part of the argument that hasn't been brought up is how many new centerfire handguns have been introduced since 1/1/2007 US wide. Its probably a dificult question to answer but I'd guess the number is well over 100

dantodd
08-30-2009, 6:53 PM
I think another part of the argument that hasn't been brought up is how many new centerfire handguns have been introduced since 1/1/2007 US wide. Its probably a dificult question to answer but I'd guess the number is well over 100

If you used the DOJ definition of a "model" it would be much greater yet...

Untamed1972
08-31-2009, 9:00 AM
I can't wait to drive a stake in the rosters heart..

They have effectively banned new models of Semi-Automatic handguns, that has to be a violation of DC v. Heller in some respect.


Just like Obama wants to be able to tell you what kinda car to drive from the approved gov't motors list CA wants to whittle the list down so you'll have one of 2 or 3 options to pick from and they will still be able to claim you're not being completely banned from having a handgun.....you have 3 wonderful options to choose from! LOL

Casual Observer
08-31-2009, 9:11 AM
I know of two others that were added, both "grandfather'd" in. The Sig P6 (identical to the 225, already on the roster) and the Nighthawk T3 (nearly identical to the Talon series, specifically, the frame is the same as the Talon II).

But Hoffman is right. The only NEW semi-auto added to the list in almost 3 years is the SR9.

tommyid1
09-01-2009, 8:01 AM
If what the aforementioned was true that about 100 firearms were introduced since 2007 and california has only approved let's say 10 to be generous they have effectively banned 90% of the handguns in the us market that arguably be considered "in common use" throughout the rest of the country. I would think this contradicts heller however that would only apply through incorporation.
Ideas...

foxtrotuniformlima
10-15-2009, 8:43 PM
Seems like we have a new gun on the roster.

FMK Firearms 9C1 Pistol

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/recentlyadded.pdf

unusedusername
10-15-2009, 8:50 PM
Makes me wonder if this gun was approved because of this thread...

Hello CA DOJ (waves!)

PowderApe
10-15-2009, 9:21 PM
The gun was approved (finally) because it passed California's specific rules for a safety test.

...or was it that the ransom $$$ was (finally) paid to the State by the manufacturer...

hoffmang
10-16-2009, 11:44 AM
It wasn't because of this thread. It was because of this (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Pena_v_Cid).

-Gene

wash
10-16-2009, 11:49 AM
I could be wrong, but wasn't the 9C1 approved before Pena vs. Cid was filed?

It's been in the works for a while.

ke6guj
10-16-2009, 12:31 PM
I don't see how it could have been approved before the Roster suit was filed.

The Roster suit was filed in April, and the 9C1 wasn't even pass testing until September.


Oct. 06, 2009

DOJ approves FMK Model 9C1 for sale in California

Sept. 11, 2009

United States Testing Lab approvals FMK Model 9C1.

wash
10-16-2009, 1:30 PM
There was a thread about it. I think the gun was originally supposed to be in production by May. It had passed the DOJ LCI test before that. The DOJ announced in September because the 9C1 has only been on the market recently (production delays I guess).

dfletcher
10-16-2009, 2:00 PM
I've been following what has and has not been approved since the mag/LCI requirement was put in place - I guess I missed the Ruger getting in, I thought no new models had made it since the start.

If the mag/LCI requirement had prevented ALL new models from being sold in CA isn't that better than the mag/LCI requirement preventing all but one? That "but one" might lead a disinterested party to believe it can be done, Smith and Sig and Colt and others just aren't trying hard enough?

armandolo
10-16-2009, 2:49 PM
I think LCI is a stupid thing.
I think there should be a requirement to add Windows Vista to a firearm, so when the gun is loaded and you pull the trigger a voice comes on and asks" Are you sure you want to fire the gun", you click yes buy squeezing the trigger one more time. Then the voice comes on and goes something like "WARNING, the gun will fire in approximately 5 seconds".

Oh any you cant squeeze the trigger to many times, otherwise the system will reboot and not fire.

IGOTDIRT4U
10-16-2009, 3:03 PM
What makes me mad is when the officers need to conduct an "e" check they never look for or at the CLI. . . I mean, it is there. . you can see it in the holster. . . It past the state test so it obviously works. . . why do you need it out of the holster?

Checking for a loaded mag?

DarkHorse
10-16-2009, 3:32 PM
I think LCI is a stupid thing.
I think there should be a requirement to add Windows Vista to a firearm, so when the gun is loaded and you pull the trigger a voice comes on and asks" Are you sure you want to fire the gun", you click yes buy squeezing the trigger one more time. Then the voice comes on and goes something like "WARNING, the gun will fire in approximately 5 seconds".

Oh any you cant squeeze the trigger to many times, otherwise the system will reboot and not fire.

...and 1 second before the gun fires, it stops the countdown to inform you that new updates have been installed, and you must restart the system before the firing process can continue.

donstarr
10-16-2009, 3:57 PM
What makes me mad is when the officers need to conduct an "e" check they never look for or at the CLI. . . I mean, it is there. . you can see it in the holster. . . It past the state test so it obviously works. . . why do you need it out of the holster?
Checking for a loaded mag?
In addition to checking for a loaded magazine installed in the firearm (which, by itself, makes the firearm "loaded"), perhaps the officers have read the equivalent of the text in my SW1911 manual:
Warning: Never rely upon the Loaded Chamber Indicator alone to verify the presence or absence of a round in the chamber. The surest method to determine the presence or absence of a round in the chamber is to visually check the chamber of your firearm by pulling and locking the slide to the rear.

armandolo
10-16-2009, 4:03 PM
...and 1 second before the gun fires, it stops the countdown to inform you that new updates have been installed, and you must restart the system before the firing process can continue.

Yeap, I forgot about that one. But that comes with Service pack 2.