PDA

View Full Version : Open bolt civi AR system


JoeC
08-28-2009, 12:16 PM
I know a lot of full auto systems use an open bolt design especially SMG's.

LWRC made a rifle that can do both open and closed bolt modes.

Do any civi AR's have this function? Any CA legal ones?

I can see how a civilian wouldn't have much need for the benefits an open bolt design would accommodate. However from a mechanical operating standpoint I think it's kinda unique and cool.

djleisure
08-28-2009, 12:26 PM
Yeah, I saw that LWRC rifle on Future Weapons (I think) and it looked like a pretty slick system. I was under the impression that civilian open-bolt designs are a no-go in CA (and maybe even federally) but now that you mention it, I'm not sure how (or where) that would be listed as an "evil feature." I'm sure someone will be along shortly to clear things up...

Quiet
08-28-2009, 9:23 PM
See post below.

B Strong
08-29-2009, 7:06 AM
Simple answer is that after 11-1-81, no new, legal semi auto open bolt firearms can be sold as title one firearms.

All the old stuff is grandfathered in, but nothing new aftter 11-1-81.

I know a lot of full auto systems use an open bolt design especially SMG's.

LWRC made a rifle that can do both open and closed bolt modes.

Do any civi AR's have this function? Any CA legal ones?

I can see how a civilian wouldn't have much need for the benefits an open bolt design would accommodate. However from a mechanical operating standpoint I think it's kinda unique and cool.

B Strong
08-29-2009, 7:10 AM
AFAIK...
As part of the Hughes Amendment to the FOPA of 1986, BATFE ruled semi-auto open-bolt = MG.
So, all open-bolt firearms made after May 1986, would be considered non-transferable MGs.


See my post, it's not a law, it's an ATF regulatory order, dated 11-1-81.

A few manufacturers have run afoul of it - MK arms & Holmes comes to mind, but it was the open bolt M10's, KG9's & Spitfires that caused the ruling.

Quiet
08-29-2009, 3:38 PM
See my post, it's not a law, it's an ATF regulatory order, dated 11-1-81.

A few manufacturers have run afoul of it - MK arms & Holmes comes to mind, but it was the open bolt M10's, KG9's & Spitfires that caused the ruling.

I stand corrected. ;)

B Strong
08-29-2009, 3:55 PM
I stand corrected. ;)

Not a problem - I get confused sometimes too.

If it's any consolation, the same 11-1-81 rule making that stopped open bolt title one sales also stopped manufacture of drop-in auto sears (DIAS) for AR's - and ATf has always taken the position that pre-11-1-81 sears were grandfathered as well.

A court decision:

http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-appeals/F3/149/706/560862/

Handed ATF's symbolic *** to them about their ability to make law by regulatory notice.

It was no win for firearms owners, other than the ones smart enough to stay away from DIAS w/o a tax stamp, but it is always nice to see a judge chew on ATF.