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View Full Version : AR-10/AR-308 Build - Armalite or DPMS/CMMG Pattern?


GunOwner
08-26-2009, 8:38 PM
Which platform would you choose and why. Which is the cheapest to build a pretty basic 20" Weapon? I am thinking and Aero lower and a Armalite upper - thoughts?

BillyGoatMachine
08-26-2009, 8:57 PM
^^^^I'm doing the same as you because the Armalite pattern has been around much longer and the parts availability takes precedence over the others. Did you know that Aero Precision makes the lowers for Armalite.

technique
08-26-2009, 9:02 PM
Always liked the Armalite myself.

Phil3
08-26-2009, 9:17 PM
I prefer the AR-10 and that is what I am building. Thankfully, you can at least get all the parts needed to make one, a welcome change from just recently.

- Phil

C.G.
08-26-2009, 9:34 PM
DPMS will probably cost a little less, but I am partial to Armalite and don't mind spending a little extra, because they've been at the .308 game longer and sorted out the bugs. Nothing about .308 is cheap on any platform, however, in comparison with an AR-15.

mike452
08-26-2009, 9:35 PM
DPMS 308 because the uppers are a little cheaper and LPK at Midwayusa for $65 in-stock. Armalite parts aren't even available from Armalite!

Aero lower is only $339....

C.G.
08-26-2009, 9:59 PM
DPMS 308 because the uppers are a little cheaper and LPK at Midwayusa for $65 in-stock. Armalite parts aren't even available from Armalite!

Aero lower is only $339....

Yeah, but Aero lower doesn't fit a DPMS upper, so you are sort of contradicting yourself. And Armalite is starting to catch up with the demand.

kblack583
08-26-2009, 10:29 PM
Not sure if you really can go wrong either way. I was all set to go Armalite but changed last minute because I was able to secure parts in a decent time frame. I haven't regreted decision one bit.

Jpach
08-26-2009, 10:48 PM
I went DPMS and I never looked back. They use SR-25 mags which means we will be able to use the Magpul .308 Pmags. Obviously that kicks azz. Good luck finding Armalite parts. Howabout yalls look up on the Noveske N6 on their website http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=3 .

Oh wait a second....YOU CANT :devil:! And they arent on there for a reason.

Call up Fulton Armory tomorrow and ask them what their lead times are. Last I checked, which was months ago when it was still pretty crazy around the gun realm....6-8 weeks. I bet it is now at least the same or better.

I have a DPMS upper and I love it. Not a single hiccup yet and it is damn accurate. However if I could do it all over again I would go with Fulton Armory (still DPMS patterned) because they use Krieger barrels which=accurate as ****.

Accurate, reliable, beautiful, parts availability, Pmags, etc.

You make the choice

fallbrook79
08-26-2009, 11:00 PM
i own one of each and prefer the armalite. i have had problems with dpms parts and magazines.dpms is on backorder for 1-2 years depending on the options you get however you can find them from other stores or gunbroker.

yellowreef
08-26-2009, 11:13 PM
Which platform would you choose and why. Which is the cheapest to build a pretty basic 20" Weapon? I am thinking and Aero lower and a Armalite upper - thoughts?

Armalite, this might be silly but the reason is because they invented it. It is also night and day superior quality to DPMS. Availability is coming back. There are plenty of uppers for sale in the CG Marketplace too if you don't want to wait. I recently ordered a 5 mag pack from Armalite and had it within a couple of weeks.

kblack583
08-26-2009, 11:17 PM
I went DPMS and I never looked back. They use SR-25 mags which means we will be able to use the Magpul .308 Pmags. Obviously that kicks azz. Good luck finding Armalite parts. Howabout yalls look up on the Noveske N6 on their website http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=3 .

Oh wait a second....YOU CANT :devil:! And they arent on there for a reason.

Call up Fulton Armory tomorrow and ask them what their lead times are. Last I checked, which was months ago when it was still pretty crazy around the gun realm....6-8 weeks. I bet it is now at least the same or better.

I have a DPMS upper and I love it. Not a single hiccup yet and it is damn accurate. However if I could do it all over again I would go with Fulton Armory (still DPMS patterned) because they use Krieger barrels which=accurate as ****.

Accurate, reliable, beautiful, parts availability, Pmags, etc.

You make the choice

The Fulton Armory uppers were what swayed me. Great uppers (even chrome lined) and the 6 to 8 week delivery early in the year were hard to argue with.

Combine that with POF lowers that I could get in a couple of weeks for $350 and it was hard to say no.

Funny part was that I was ready to buy 2 Aero lowers early in the year. I logged on and saw that dealer had raised price for in stock lowers by $50 from the morning. Slept on it over night and thought it was still reasonable so logged on in morning and saw that dealer had markered them up another $100!!

Jpach
08-26-2009, 11:32 PM
The Fulton Armory uppers were what swayed me. Great uppers (even chrome lined) and the 6 to 8 week delivery early in the year were hard to argue with.

Combine that with POF lowers that I could get in a couple of weeks for $350 and it was hard to say no.

Funny part was that I was ready to buy 2 Aero lowers early in the year. I logged on and saw that dealer had raised price for in stock lowers by $50 from the morning. Slept on it over night and thought it was still reasonable so logged on in morning and saw that dealer had markered them up another $100!!

Thats awesome, how do you like your upper? Obviously you like it but tell us about it. Which one did you get? What kind of accuracy are you getting? etc.

Now your making me want another .308 AR!

kblack583
08-26-2009, 11:45 PM
Thats awesome, how do you like your upper? Obviously you like it but tell us about it. Which one did you get? What kind of accuracy are you getting? etc.

Now your making me want another .308 AR!

Arrrrrrrrrrrrg!!

Just shot for break in so I cant give actual accuracy details yet.

Ive put togther 5 AR variants this year and I dont have a dime for glass!!!! Pissing me off. Hopefully have it rectified in two weeks (next credit card cycle).

UBFRAGD
08-27-2009, 6:56 AM
PMags for my 308?? Checked magpuls' website no mention, was this something at the SHOT show or how did I miss this crucial piece of info?

Rommel
08-27-2009, 7:53 AM
I would got the 308 DPMS route, way more parts available as many companies are using that mag style. The Larue OSR and LWRC REPR should be coming out soon as well. Along with the .308 PMAGS that should hopefully be around by the end of the year...

I can tell you that both .308 DPMS and C-Products mags are garbage. They both have crappy springs and followers.

Jpach
08-27-2009, 12:57 PM
My DPMS mags are pretty good. No problems. Havent seen anything on the Pmags? Here you go ;) http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=124&t=174708

DRAB_81
08-27-2009, 1:34 PM
I went through this a couple months ago. I chose Armalite because I believe it is a higher quality, more reliable, more proven weapon. I was able to put together a Noveske/Armalite 16" carbine in less than a month, and that was during the panic. Parts aren't that bard to find, you just have to be presistent. I see places stocking Armalite uppers and LPK's at normal prices now, and mags are back down to $35.

joemama
08-27-2009, 2:09 PM
so whats up with the N6 uppers? Did they completely stop production on these or are they just holding off till they catch up with all the back orders?

Clark_Kent_X
08-27-2009, 2:19 PM
i'm split between the 2. i have a dpms style lower cuz its more readily available and because Magpul is making PMAGs that will fit the DPMS/KAC SR25 style lowers. and with armalite you are paying more for the name. but armalite style ar10s are still kickass

swerv512
08-27-2009, 3:09 PM
i honestly like em both, but if i had to choose one to buy today- it would be a DPMS. i know armalite started the game, but i havent seen enough DPMS bad reviews to warrant NOT buying one. availability is a big factor here.

fallbrook79
08-27-2009, 3:24 PM
i have had to send all my magazines to dpms because they were jamming on the 2nd to last round.the screw for the bolt catch stripped on me with the slightest of pressure and using the right wrench.my bolt catch wont engage the bolt 9 out of 10 times and when it does it barely grabs like a 1/16 inch compared to my armalite which grabs about a 1/4 inch.i have had no problems with my armalite.i do like my dpms but would have prefered another armalite.why does everyone say dpms is available there backordered 1-2 years for rifles and uppers.you can find both armalite and dpms uppers from 3rd party suppliers sometimes cheaper than the factory. my opinion

myfavoritecar
08-27-2009, 4:54 PM
Where have you seen mag at $35.00. I went through this a couple months ago. I chose Armalite because I believe it is a higher quality, more reliable, more proven weapon. I was able to put together a Noveske/Armalite 16" carbine in less than a month, and that was during the panic. Parts aren't that bard to find, you just have to be presistent. I see places stocking Armalite uppers and LPK's at normal prices now, and mags are back down to $35.

C.G.
08-27-2009, 11:20 PM
I went DPMS and I never looked back. They use SR-25 mags which means we will be able to use the Magpul .308 Pmags. Obviously that kicks azz. Good luck finding Armalite parts. Howabout yalls look up on the Noveske N6 on their website http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=3 .

Oh wait a second....YOU CANT :devil:! And they arent on there for a reason.

Call up Fulton Armory tomorrow and ask them what their lead times are. Last I checked, which was months ago when it was still pretty crazy around the gun realm....6-8 weeks. I bet it is now at least the same or better.

I have a DPMS upper and I love it. Not a single hiccup yet and it is damn accurate. However if I could do it all over again I would go with Fulton Armory (still DPMS patterned) because they use Krieger barrels which=accurate as ****.

Accurate, reliable, beautiful, parts availability, Pmags, etc.

You make the choice


Hm, Aero AR-10 lowers are available right now.
http://www.762sass.com/store.php?cid=2&session=361a9f9221c42de253b615fb9baac59d

BTW, if you try to get anything from Noveske right now you are still in for a long wait, so you have provided a poor example.

Obviously you have an DPMS .308, which is fine; but because of that you probably don't keep up on the AR-10 parts availability. The situation is different now than it was 3-6 months ago.

tommyid1
08-27-2009, 11:37 PM
AR10 FTW

problemchild
08-27-2009, 11:50 PM
I just bought a complete rifle. It was a lot easier then buying parts all over and praying they fit and work.
http://www.michaelkdickson.com/webjunk/POF308/_U6L0252a.jpg

Once A Marine
08-27-2009, 11:59 PM
Fulton Armory should have updated DPMS mags that actually work.

I have an FA Titan, and I'm very pleased with it. As previously stated, they are much more expensive than a 5.56.

Jpach
08-28-2009, 1:18 AM
Hm, Aero AR-10 lowers are available right now.
http://www.762sass.com/store.php?cid=2&session=361a9f9221c42de253b615fb9baac59d

BTW, if you try to get anything from Noveske right now you are still in for a long wait, so you have provided a poor example.

Obviously you have an DPMS .308, which is fine; but because of that you probably don't keep up on the AR-10 parts availability. The situation is different now than it was 3-6 months ago.

I certainly do not anymore, it has been a while. I never said lowers were unavailable. It seems the uppers were just craaaaaazy unavailable before. I dont know about them now, except for Noveske of course.

Its funny because back when I was looking for another .308 AR the DPMS LPKs were unobtainium but then so were AR-10 uppers. So either way you were screwed in some way no matter the platform. That is unless you went Fulton. Somehow they had/have LPKS all the damn time even when DPMS and others were very scarce. I dont know why nobody really has Fulton stuff. Oh well, better for those who want a great rifle quickly.

Jpach
08-28-2009, 1:19 AM
Problemchild, WTF where is your range report? I have serious wood for your rifle.

FatOnCoke
08-28-2009, 1:34 AM
I just put a DPMS lower together from Iron Ridge. They make their lowers with tighter tolerances for better fit.

What a pain in the *** to put one together! The magazine release button hole was much smaller. I just spent two hours sanding my Bullet Button down 10% so it will fit.

Some guy's definition of quality! Totally out-of-spec required sanding of almost everything including the upper. None of the parts used in this lower will ever fit anything else.

LesGrossman41510
09-03-2009, 7:18 PM
So whats the price difference between a full Noveske N6 lower/upper and the armalite version?

How is the armalite fit with the noveske upper?

Id rather have a complete rifle, so unless the price different between the armalite and noveske n6 is notable, id rather get the n6..

SID45
09-03-2009, 9:13 PM
i just bought a billet match upper and lower, i need to make the same decision also. although there is a gun show on november so i am planning to buy most of the parts during that time.

C.G.
09-03-2009, 9:48 PM
So whats the price difference between a full Noveske N6 lower/upper and the armalite version?

How is the armalite fit with the noveske upper?

Id rather have a complete rifle, so unless the price different between the armalite and noveske n6 is notable, id rather get the n6..

Armalite AR-10 is listed, so you cannot buy an Armalite lower. Noveske to Armalite fit is just fine.

shark92651
09-04-2009, 8:28 AM
Howabout yalls look up on the Noveske N6 on their website http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=3 .

Oh wait a second....YOU CANT :devil:! And they arent on there for a reason.


Oh really, then what is this link?

http://www.noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=55

Now they have removed the link to navigate to this page from the home page, but the fact that the pages still exist and are easily found on Google must indicate they have not dumped the N6, at least not yet. They have repeatedly stated they intend to take new orders once they get caught up with their existing orders.

We have talked to Armalite and they are getting caught up with AR-10 parts. We have AR-10 lower parts kits in stock and have other parts on order. Yes availability is not where we would like it to be, but that goes for DPMS patterned stuff as well. There is probably a better chance of getting DPMS stuff quicker, but if willing to wait a bit, AR-10 is still an option.

fallfornoone
09-04-2009, 9:29 AM
what makes it so all 308 ARs are not compatible like the AR15s

mike452
09-04-2009, 9:32 AM
So whats the price difference between a full Noveske N6 lower/upper and the armalite version?

How is the armalite fit with the noveske upper?

Id rather have a complete rifle, so unless the price different between the armalite and noveske n6 is notable, id rather get the n6..

Oh... the price difference is notable! (another cheap ar15 build difference)
They all fit perfectly.
I would stay with Armalite uppers and maybe an Aero lower.

STEALTHGHOST
09-04-2009, 9:36 AM
Armalite/NoveskeN6/Aero Precision hands down.

Own several and used them on a two way range. :chris:

BlackViper
09-04-2009, 10:25 AM
I'm building up a DPMS style 308 using the new stuff from Iron Ridge. I'm waiting for their own custom uppers to come out soon to match the lower I already have. I'm going to go with something like a Krieger barrel and hand-pick everything.

I went with DPMS style vs. Armalite style for the PMAGs (coming soon) and because I was so impressed with Iron Ridge's product. My goals for the build are tight tolerance, high quality, and thus accuracy. Luckily I have no timeline so the wait time doesn't bother me.

DRAB_81
09-04-2009, 10:43 AM
Where have you seen mag at $35.00.

I bought them directly from Armalite.

fallfornoone
09-04-2009, 11:40 AM
I'm building up a DPMS style 308 using the new stuff from Iron Ridge. I'm waiting for their own custom uppers to come out soon to match the lower I already have. I'm going to go with something like a Krieger barrel and hand-pick everything.

I went with DPMS style vs. Armalite style for the PMAGs (coming soon) and because I was so impressed with Iron Ridge's product. My goals for the build are tight tolerance, high quality, and thus accuracy. Luckily I have no timeline so the wait time doesn't bother me.

man those iron ridge lowers look pretty nice
hmmm what to get

Jpach
09-04-2009, 11:53 AM
Oh really, then what is this link?

http://www.noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=55

Now they have removed the link to navigate to this page from the home page, but the fact that the pages still exist and are easily found on Google must indicate they have not dumped the N6, at least not yet. They have repeatedly stated they intend to take new orders once they get caught up with their existing orders.

We have talked to Armalite and they are getting caught up with AR-10 parts. We have AR-10 lower parts kits in stock and have other parts on order. Yes availability is not where we would like it to be, but that goes for DPMS patterned stuff as well. There is probably a better chance of getting DPMS stuff quicker, but if willing to wait a bit, AR-10 is still an option.

...They removed that link for a reason. Nobody, including myself, has said that Noveske dumped the N6. Of course they will take new orders, why wouldnt they? I even want one. Its just that if one were to go the DPMS route it would be easier to find parts and such. Plus the Pmags.

So to re-sum up what I was saying again: although ordering from DPMS will result in a million year wait-they have still been quite available while Armalite patterned ones have not, SR-25 mags, awesome reviews, more manufacturers are making DPMS patterned receivers/rifles, etc.

Boom.

GunOwner
09-07-2009, 10:39 AM
Armalite has 10 - 20 round mags for $275 on sale. If you live where you can buy them 27.50 for Armalite mags is a pretty good deal. Do folks know of any other good options for Mags?


I think I am going Aero AR-10 lower and Armalite upper (when they strat shipping again) - Thanks for all the input.

Jpach
09-07-2009, 10:58 AM
.308 PMAGs are going to be less than 20 a pop at BCM http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Magpul-PMAG-AR15-Magazine-p/magpul%20pmag%2020lr%20black.htm

Imagine when they go on sale! Boy Im excited. You Armaliters should at least convert your AR-10 to accept SR-25 mags. That would be awesome

JPB
09-07-2009, 11:53 AM
The price of mags is of little consequence to me. If they are available and reasonably priced for what you get, so be it. Armalite gen II mags are darn nice and well worth the $30-40. If quality is important to you, go Armalite and belly up. Sure, lesser quality alternatives exist at a cheaper price. If the cost difference is enough for you to lend merrit to the lower quality option, I'd guess that you're not going to shoot enough for it to really matter (ammo ain't cheap either). It's not that money isn't a factor, it's just that the platform comes first. You can have a bunch of mags for a turd, but it's still a turd. If all you do is punch paper at the range, a turd will do fine, but you really dont need a bunch of mags for that anyway.

vinniesguns
09-07-2009, 12:02 PM
So if you have an Armalite AR-10 lower, will a DPMS Upper fit on it?
Thanks

GunOwner
09-07-2009, 2:44 PM
So if you have an Armalite AR-10 lower, will a DPMS Upper fit on it?
Thanks

An Armalite lower will NOT fit a DPMS upper. Also note that Armalite is a named lower in Cali (on the banned list) so you can't have an Armalite lower here. You can get a Noveske lower or an Aero Lower in Armalite pattern and slap an Armalite upper on it. I hear CMMG will be/is making an Armalite pattered lower soon as well.

TripleXGuns
09-09-2009, 10:40 PM
I've got a few factory new DPMS 16" AP4 complete uppers if anyone is looking :D

sen24
09-09-2009, 10:49 PM
modern armalite ar10s are not compatible with dpms.. and neither is compatible with the original armalites. http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6425/xm10small.jpghttp://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6425/xm10small.jpg

freonr22
09-09-2009, 10:59 PM
is that a dutch ar10?

sen24
09-09-2009, 11:35 PM
yes dutch ar10 portuguese contract. build on semi lower.

freonr22
09-09-2009, 11:48 PM
WOW! My Brother had one in the early 80's and said today they would be like a $10k rifle. Hats of to you kind sir.

C.G.
09-10-2009, 12:43 AM
...They removed that link for a reason. Nobody, including myself, has said that Noveske dumped the N6. Of course they will take new orders, why wouldnt they? I even want one. Its just that if one were to go the DPMS route it would be easier to find parts and such. Plus the Pmags.

So to re-sum up what I was saying again: although ordering from DPMS will result in a million year wait-they have still been quite available while Armalite patterned ones have not, SR-25 mags, awesome reviews, more manufacturers are making DPMS patterned receivers/rifles, etc.

Boom.

You are contradicting yourself.;)

JeffM
09-10-2009, 2:33 AM
I dont know why nobody really has Fulton stuff.

Maybe because Fulton took a dump on CA early in the game.

And for that, I wouldn't wipe my *** with a peice of their garbage.

masterbush
09-10-2009, 5:54 AM
Maybe because Fulton took a dump on CA early in the game.

And for that, I wouldn't wipe my *** with a peice of their garbage.

I believe CWS has Fulton stuff available. As far as them crapping on California; well California craps on California and all its people but that won't stop me from buying quality poops.:cool2:

Truthfully I'm wondering what makes DPMS so ****ty. I own their SASS upper and it looks like a fine piece of work. You gun-ho Armalite people sound like elitists and nothing will ever be as good, and for that reason I will now go Kel-Tech 4lyfe yo. :D

Jpach
09-10-2009, 11:56 AM
You are contradicting yourself.;)

I want every gun in existence! I just prefer the DPMS pattern over Armalite. If someone said hey Ill give you an N6 for free (or for a rediculously low price), you bet your azz Id accept it. But if I had to drop that much $$$ on a .308 AR I would just go to GA precision for a DPMS type setup.

Jpach
09-10-2009, 12:01 PM
I believe CWS has Fulton stuff available. As far as them crapping on California; well California craps on California and all its people but that won't stop me from buying quality poops.:cool2:

Truthfully I'm wondering what makes DPMS so ****ty. I own their SASS upper and it looks like a fine piece of work. You gun-ho Armalite people sound like elitists and nothing will ever be as good, and for that reason I will now go Kel-Tech 4lyfe yo. :D

DPMS isnt crappy. They dont offer certain features and they arent really tested crazily but damn near every review I have read on every single DPMS built upper is positive. Go read the reviews on Midwayusa.com . People get sub-MOA accuracy out of $500 uppers along with good reliability.

My DPMS .308 upper can print sub-MOA groups but typically will produce 1-MOA at 100yds. However at 200 I have produced almost .5 MOA. Not too bad. If I were to do it again I would go with a Fulton upper, they use Krieger barrels which is just amazing.

JPB
09-10-2009, 1:12 PM
Truthfully I'm wondering what makes DPMS so ****ty. I own their SASS upper and it looks like a fine piece of work. You gun-ho Armalite people sound like elitists and nothing will ever be as good, and for that reason I will now go Kel-Tech 4lyfe yo. :D

I think KAC is as good or better than Armalite. From a quality of construction standpoint, the POF, LWRC, and La Rue appear to be as good or better than Armalite. Can't speak to their functionality because I have not had a chance to shoot the POF and the others seem to exist only in internet space.

Quality/"milspec-esque" ARs traditionaly employ forged receivers, therefor that's what I want to see in a quality product. There's been a recent trend toward billet receivers. They're pretty to look at, high quality stuff but in no way superior, other than perhaps aesthetically, to the forged component. Tantamount to to custom billet "bolt on" parts for motorcycles and cars. Jewellery. The forged part is actually stronger (though you can control the dimensional tolerances to a higher degree on the billet part). You may notice that most billet parts are thicker than forged parts. Extrusions, on the other hand, are employed simply as a cost cutting measure. Basically a weaker, uglier, cheaper receiver. Will work fine for what most people want to do with it. I guess I just like nice stuff. Pride of ownership kinda thing.

technique
09-10-2009, 1:18 PM
Armalite is the "Colt" of AR10's.....Everything else is modeled after it.

As a matter of fact, if it ain't Armalite, it ain't an AR10.

evollep3
09-10-2009, 2:35 PM
I went DPMS and I never looked back. They use SR-25 mags which means we will be able to use the Magpul .308 Pmags. Obviously that kicks azz. Good luck finding Armalite parts. Howabout yalls look up on the Noveske N6 on their website http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=3 .

Oh wait a second....YOU CANT :devil:! And they arent on there for a reason.

Call up Fulton Armory tomorrow and ask them what their lead times are. Last I checked, which was months ago when it was still pretty crazy around the gun realm....6-8 weeks. I bet it is now at least the same or better.

I have a DPMS upper and I love it. Not a single hiccup yet and it is damn accurate. However if I could do it all over again I would go with Fulton Armory (still DPMS patterned) because they use Krieger barrels which=accurate as ****.

Accurate, reliable, beautiful, parts availability, Pmags, etc.

You make the choice

:iagree: could not of said it better i started to type it out the exact same thing and Fulton also have a option with a side charge handle for 308 platform much more convient for me