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frakki
08-25-2009, 10:30 PM
Hello all, What I wrote below was in response to a post on a on line community discussion about gun right issues. It started me thinking about what does it mean to be a American and what it means and what its like in the middle.









I think what is important here is that, I believe our country has gone down the wrong path. I am not a Christian, nor am I a Republican,(not saying being earthier or both is bad) what I am is a concerned citizen, We as a Representative Republic, our Representatives', the government are here only because we allow them to be.

Our government is meant to be for the people and by the people, but the people whom we elect for the most part are not one of us, not one of the "people". Most come from families or Companies with influence over our lives. They then support causes not of the people they represent, but ones whom help them, there companies, and that help put them and there companies in more control.

Our founding fathers' provided their children with ways to prevent and overcome these people and the overbearing, over controlling, over spending governments. We have rights, lets use them.

We have the right to speak our minds and hearts. We have the right to gather and show our discussant. We have the right to believe in what ever we want, no matter what god(s), we are all equal. We have the right to do as we will, as long as it doesnt prevent someone else from there rights. The one most important, the one that pervents the governments, man, or god from taking away any of those rights. The right that protects all people and all right equally "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.".

So, if you have a problem with how the people whom you allow to have power over you, use your rights. No one else is going to protect your rights unless you are. As I read the second amendment, We as gun owners, have taken responsibility that if necessary we are willing to protect and defend our rights and the rights of our fellow countrymen. May be this is because of my background. (If you read my profile I was a Infantrymen in the Cal national guard and spent time in the middle east and was injured in combat.)We are the Militia, We are the one with the power. We are not meant to fear our government, they are meant to fear us.

We must speak out. We can not let CNN and Fox news tell the government how we the people feel about it. We can not let the NRA speak for all gun owners. We can not let our government tell us how to live.

With all the things going on in the world (swine flu, global weather change, peak oil and what ever the gods want to throw at us...) We are going to have to depend on ourselves. We are going to have to make our own decisions about our safety and future. I am not saying the world is going to end. I am saying that the world is in constant change and its about to change again. For good or bad I do not know...(if you do, I would like to hear what you have to say).

I was once told by a WWII veteran whom was a P.O.W say, "If we do not use our Freedoms regularly...we will forget them and soon when we need them most they will be nowhere to be found."

We have allowed the "talking head" the the "extremists" on both sides of the line to speak for us to long. We the people, we must speak for our selves. I know many people have been seen doing that by bring guns to these Town Hall meetings and the president talk in Az. I am not going to say what they did is wrong or illegal. It was Legal in Az for those people to have there firearms. The secret service didn't have a issue with it. With that said, I don't think it was the smartest thing. I understand there fear and wanting to be heard, but we must do it on equal ground.

We must remember what it means to be a American. We must remember who and how we built this great Republic. Even as I type our bothers and sisters are around the world putting there lives in harms way to protect our rights. We don't just owe it to ourselves, our children and our future, but we owe it to these young men and women, to stand up and tell the government that we have had enough, we are done, reset and restart. We have the right to do this, its time to take back our government. We are all meant to be equal. It is time to realize the dreams of our forefathers, We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity,...".

These are the things we must be looking to. Are you will to trust this government? Are you willing to let them to do what they think is right for you?

But this is what I think.

Frakki

hollabillz
08-25-2009, 10:44 PM
True dat.

Seesm
08-25-2009, 10:46 PM
+100

Alaric
08-25-2009, 10:56 PM
What exactly are you proposing Frakki? How should this expression of our rights manifest itself, beyond words preached to the proverbial choir? How are you going to reach out to the masses when the masses have prejudged you and control the means of communication, the MSM?

And why shouldn't the NRA represent us?

hollabillz
08-25-2009, 11:06 PM
What exactly are you proposing Frakki? How should this expression of our rights manifest itself, beyond words preached to the proverbial choir? How are you going to reach out to the masses when the masses have prejudged you and control the means of communication, the MSM?

And why shouldn't the NRA represent us?

Those questions are too practical. I'd like to just soak in my ideology, it feels better than being smacked down by the gov. :)

frakki
08-25-2009, 11:50 PM
I don't think Alaric questions are to practical. Alaric, that is the question I want each of use to ask ourselves. What are we willing to do? Do we take up arms and defend that switch is so dear? Is this the time, is it right?

We shouldn't have to fear our government, but we do because they have the power to shut up those whom speak there minds and want to uphold our rights. We have the right and the responsibility to take out any government that has ran away from the people. So why do we fear speaking of this and the means of which it may be done. If its our right, its our right. We shouldnt fear using them. If that means use of arms then it does, why should we fear that. I know what war brings, I dont want to see the pain and suffering it brings in our streets, but if its that or my freedom, there is not question.
I know the odds are against use, but should we just stand and do anything?

As for the NRA, I think they have grown to big and are interested in there own inner politics and have lost touch with the common gun owner.

frakki
08-25-2009, 11:52 PM
*but should we just stand around and do nothing?* not but should we just stand and do anything?

Merle
08-26-2009, 12:48 AM
The first thing is to look around and acknowledge there is a problem. The second would be to understand the problem and scope.

Only then should you try to figure out a course of action. Acting too soon is an open invite to a smackdown from .gov as hollabillz says.

wildhawker
08-26-2009, 12:55 AM
*but should we just stand around and do nothing?* not but should we just stand and do anything?

We're not "doing (http://calgunsfoundation.org/) nothing (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=170)".

What are we willing to do? Do we take up arms and defend that switch is so dear? Is this the time, is it right?


Why would we rationally or reasonably go to such an extreme when we haven't come close to exhausing our currently-available options for governmental and social change? Our side (and by that, I mean *us*) has been less than adequate at preventing the erosion of our rights using the tools we have out there right now. Further, what makes you think the organization of some coup would be structured and executed any differently? Our "ground game" sucks. Want to help? Join the practice squad, coach on the weekends, take guys water- but don't throw popcorn from the stands.

As for the NRA, I think they have grown to big and are interested in there own inner politics and have lost touch with the common gun owner.

You could not be further from the truth wrt NRA. If you think they're not working for you, call Paul Payne or :gasp: actually attend an NRA event.

ETA: Here's Paul's info:

H. Paul Payne, NRA Liaison to the Executive Vice President
3565 La Ciotat Way, Riverside, CA 92501
(951) 683-4NRA Office (951) 779-0740 Fax
nrausmc@earthlink.net Email
http://www.calnra.com California NRA Web Site

Alaric
08-26-2009, 1:40 AM
I'm with wildhawker on this, we haven't come close to exhausting our options within the system.

To paraphrase hoffmang and others: first the soap box, then the ballot box, then the ammo box. In that order.

I know it's frustrating, and we all want change now. But we have a tremendous amount of opportunity for that change without resorting to the options of last resort, yet.

frakki
08-26-2009, 3:46 AM
"You could not be further from the truth wrt NRA. If you think they're not working for you, call Paul Payne or :gasp: actually attend an NRA event."

Wildhawker, you automatically think that I have never been to a NRA event nor that I knew whom Paul Payne is. Just to let you know I was a paying member till 2007.

Why would we rationally or reasonably go to such an extreme when we haven't come close to exhausing our currently-available options for governmental and social change? Our side (and by that, I mean *us*) has been less than adequate at preventing the erosion of our rights using the tools we have out there right now. Further, what makes you think the organization of some coup would be structured and executed any differently? Our "ground game" sucks. Want to help? Join the practice squad, coach on the weekends, take guys water- but don't throw popcorn from the stands.


You ask people to wait for use to got throw all "currently-available options for governmental and social change", but what do we have left. Do you really think this government cares what we think. They have proved time and time again that they don't. So I ask what are our "currently-available options for governmental and social change"?

Yes we have been lucky to win some battles with the anti, but it doesnt look like its going to stay that way.

Also, doesn't anyone think its odd that its hard to get ammo even so long after Obama has been in office. In the beginning it was people stocking up, but now. I think something is fishy.

"Our "ground game" sucks. Want to help? Join the practice squad, coach on the weekends, take guys water" As for my "ground game", I send emails to my reps everyday, I call every week,and I start people talking "like this". As for your "ground game" I dont know of it nor the rest of practice squad, coach on the weekends, take guys water you are talking about I know not of any of this. So I can not comment.

Nodda Duma
08-26-2009, 8:07 AM
frakki,

You should go back and read some of the archived threads here on the forums to get a better idea of how active and organized the pro gun movement is here in California. The NRA has been of immense help in this as well. Start around 2006 or 2007.

If you have already done so, then you need to go back and reread again because you missed a large part of what's been going on in CA over the past 3 years. You are seriously preaching to the choir here on this forum. Nothing personal, just go back and get up to speed on gun owner efforts in CA.

Our gun rights weren't taken away overnight. They were chipped away bit by bit. It is going to require the same patience to get them back. Our strategy is working here in CA, but it is not a strategy that would satisfy someone used to instant gratification.

-Jason

Vtgunner
08-26-2009, 8:23 AM
Our government is meant to be for the people and by the people, but the people whom we elect for the most part are not one of us, not one of the "people". Most come from families or Companies with influence over our lives. They then support causes not of the people they represent, but ones whom help them, there companies, and that help put them and there companies in more control.



I disagree with this statement. Our founding fathers that wrote the constitution were not the people, they were a new merchant based aristocracy that was looking to set up a government that was beneficial to their own interests. Look at the constitution it is designed around protecting merchants rights and ensuring that the government did not interfere with the pursuit of wealth. Our founding father did not trust the people. They trusted landowning protestant merchants. This is why we have an ellectoral college. They did not think the people could make a proper decision at election time.
However i think our country is going in the right direction. I think we have stumbled at times. But we recognize basic human rights and freedoms. The right to bear arms, right to an education and right not to be tortured should all be recognized by this country.
I do agree with one of the points of your manifesto. You make a great point that if the right to bear arms is important to you, you should ensure that you protect it yourself rather than let extremists do your talking. The RKBA should not be a conservative or liberal thing but rather a coalition of concerned americans thing.

HondaMasterTech
08-26-2009, 11:44 AM
If option of last resort is chosen, it will not end well. That said, any "last resort" should never be looked at as an "option".

greasemonkey
08-26-2009, 1:07 PM
Frakki,

you talk a lot about 'speaking out' and that we have rights that we need to use. Are you actually talking about "speaking" out? It doesn't come across that way.

I believe we are using our rights and we are speaking out, there is A LOT of work to be done in court rooms and political offices. This is not a fast food style, instant gratification type of deal, it's not going to be one court decision or one re-election and viola, we have zero restrictions. Plus, the grass roots movements peacefully organizing the general public, educating and speaking out have been growing rapidly, that encourages me.

I'm curious why you don't want or don't think the NRA should speak on your behalf. I find it far more beneficial to me for a few thousand dollars to go to the NRA, CGF and SAF, they're far more effective with the Supreme Court than I am, they're better equipped to research and address legislation and gov't leaders than I am. We'd be in a whole different world of hurt without organizations like these. Not only do they represent me, they guide me on how and where to make my voice heard more effectively.

The last resort should not be pursued but should be kept as a reminder to try that much harder to absolutely exhaust all other options with fervor.

bsim
08-26-2009, 2:48 PM
Methinks someone should read the declaration of independence and see how many 'options' were actually done before we said 'screw you George'.

It definitely wasn't overnight.