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Ravenslair
06-27-2005, 9:22 PM
I could not find an answer to this anywhere, so here goes. Is there any State, outside CA's borders, that will sell non-CA approved firearms to a resident of CA? In other words, can I purchase banned gun X in Oregon as long as I store it in Oregon? I ask this in all seriousness. I have no desire to bring gun X into CA but would gladly purchase it if I could store it out of CA. I know there are a few places in NV that store firearms, but I do not think a CA resident can purchase in NV legally (unless PPT is OK).

Thanks in advance.

esskay
06-27-2005, 10:21 PM
Short answer... NO, sorry... http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Librarian
06-27-2005, 11:50 PM
Longer answer - still 'No' - it's a violation of US Code 18 USC 922 (a) (5) TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 922 Prev | Next

§ 922. Unlawful acts

Release date: 2004-08-06

(a) It shall be unlawful—

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

imported_Telpierion
06-28-2005, 6:29 PM
If you were a part time resident I think you could. The rules for this vary from state to state. Usually owning property does not matter only actual residency.

Mike Searson
06-28-2005, 6:31 PM
I'm about ready to renounce my California Residency.

imported_Telpierion
06-28-2005, 6:36 PM
I'm about ready to renounce my California Residency.

Yeah if I give up my right to CA's social welfare BS can I live under Utah's gun laws and stay here? That sounds like a fair trade to me.

Mike Searson
06-28-2005, 6:42 PM
Sounds good to me.

Or Florida's gun laws!

Ravenslair
06-28-2005, 9:03 PM
Thanks for the insight. I would take almost anywhere but here. I have been here my whole life, but I am getting tired of feeling like a criminal just for wanting an AR, AK, SKS, 50 cal or anything similar.

I guess us Californians just cannot be trusted. I feel safer knowing that politicians are making the tough decisions for me.

It might just be time to buy another place out of state. I just need to make sure I spend six months and a day in the other state.

Mssr. Elegant
06-28-2005, 9:16 PM
You don't need to spend over six months of the year at your out of state property to be considered a resident and eligible to buy guns there. Here is a quote from the Gun Control Act about determining state of residence...

State of residence. The State in which an individual regularly resides, or maintains a home, or if such person is on active duty as a member of the United States Armed Forces, the State in which the person's permanent duty station is located: Provided, That an alien who is legally in the United States shall be considered to be a resident of the State in which (a) the alien is residing or has so resided for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm, or (b) the alien's embassy or consulate is located if the principal officer of such embassy or consulate issues a written statement to such alien authorizing the alien to acquire a firearm. Temporary stay in a State does not make the State of temporary stay the State of residence.

Example 1. 'A' maintains a home in State 'X'. 'A' travels to State 'Y' on a hunting, fishing, business or other type of trip. 'A' does not become a resident of State 'Y' by reason of such trip.

Example 2. 'A' maintains a home in State 'X' and a home in State 'Y'. 'A' resides in State 'X' except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State 'Y' for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that 'A' actually resides in State 'X', 'A' is a resident of State 'X', and during the time that 'A' actually resides in State 'Y', 'A' is a resident of State 'Y'.

Example 3. 'A' is a member of the Armed Forces whose permanent duty station is located in State 'X'. However, 'A' actually resides and maintains a home in State Y and commutes daily to the permanent duty station in State 'X' to perform military duties. 'A' is a resident of both State 'X' and State 'Y' at the same time.

Check out example #2.

Ravenslair
06-28-2005, 9:47 PM
...
Example 2. 'A' maintains a home in State 'X' and a home in State 'Y'. 'A' resides in State 'X' except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State 'Y' for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that 'A' actually resides in State 'X', 'A' is a resident of State 'X', and during the time that 'A' actually resides in State 'Y', 'A' is a resident of State 'Y'.
...

If I read this correctly, I can have a place in CA and one in CO or OR. If I spend a few weekends a month at the CO or OR home, I am a resident during that time. Good to know. I guess I would have to get a State ID card, or something similar, in the other state. Thanks again.

Mike Searson
06-28-2005, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by Ravenslair:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...
Example 2. 'A' maintains a home in State 'X' and a home in State 'Y'. 'A' resides in State 'X' except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State 'Y' for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that 'A' actually resides in State 'X', 'A' is a resident of State 'X', and during the time that 'A' actually resides in State 'Y', 'A' is a resident of State 'Y'.
...

If I read this correctly, I can have a place in CA and one in CO or OR. If I spend a few weekends a month at the CO or OR home, I am a resident during that time. Good to know. I guess I would have to get a State ID card, or something similar, in the other state. Thanks again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some states don't recognize part time residency.
I know Florida does and so does Nevada.

I've decided that I'm leaving this state within the next three years. More importantly, I've finally convinced the wife!

I have had it, stick a fork in me, I'm done.

I'm going to sell my second home within the next year and use the proceeds to buy a place in NV.

After I move and sell the other house here, I'm going to open an ammunition factory and buy all the guns I wasn't allowed to buy here for the past 8 years!

amd64
06-28-2005, 10:28 PM
I expect to be outta this state in about 3 years . It'll take about that long for me to research the options well enough so I just have to move once.

I telecommute fulltime so I can move where ever there is broadband. This state rips a significant chunk of my six figure salary in taxes every year and rewards me with oppression. The population continues to skyrocket up, while the 2A freedoms keep shriveling away.

jsergovic
06-29-2005, 8:39 AM
I can walk into a good gunshop and walk out with a Barret M82 in about twenty-five minutes. That includes examining the product and asking questions on .50 cal rifle ranges.

What is the difference between residents of CA and PA? None. We are all Americans.

There is plenty of space to shoot a .50 in California. When the traitors to the freedoms of the citizens, traitors to the Constitution, get thrown out, that is when change will occur.

Too bad the unfortunate LA riots did not sweep the nay-sayers out of office [the ones who made it impossible for law-abiding citizens to protect themselves].

Guess one must plan, and await broad civil breakdown.

bwiese
06-29-2005, 9:00 AM
I would really, really, really talk to a good residency lawyer on this before you attempt to do something like a 'part-time' residency.

Especially if the primary intent is to get CA-banned guns, and there's not other plainly visible reason for your residency.

There's multiple overlapping issues here: <UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> Federal residency standard
<LI> new state's residency standard
<LI> California's residency standard
[/list]

See, even if you surmount the Fed and other-state's residency standard and become a part-time resident, you might still be a California resident - esp if you're getting income in CA, voting, getting or paying for any CA benefits, etc.

Here's my worry: Calif. doesn't want Calif. residents to acquire guns in other states. If you have that leash from California still on you (cuz you're just a part-time resident in other state) your CA bonds may not have fully slipped from you - that is, there's a chance that CA residency hasn't stopped when other state residency begins. And Fed law/BATF rules gives credence to state laws.

This is a very large issue, bigger than just guns. For a long time, CA wanted to tax retirement benefits of folks who worked in CA but moved out of CA. Big fight.

Just realize the prospects that you could be in a 3-way tug of war.


Bill Wiese
San Jose

Mike Searson
06-29-2005, 9:23 AM
Originally posted by bwiese:
I would really, really, really talk to a good residency lawyer on this before you attempt to do something like a 'part-time' residency.

Especially if the primary intent is to get CA-banned guns, and there's not other plainly visible reason for your residency.

There's multiple overlapping issues here: <UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> Federal residency standard
<LI> new state's residency standard
<LI> California's residency standard
[/list]

See, even if you surmount the Fed and other-state's residency standard and become a part-time resident, you might still be a California resident - esp if you're getting income in CA, voting, getting or paying for any CA benefits, etc.

Here's my worry: Calif. doesn't want Calif. residents to acquire guns in other states. If you have that leash from California still on you (cuz you're just a part-time resident in other state) your CA bonds may not have fully slipped from you - that is, there's a chance that CA residency hasn't stopped when other state residency begins. And Fed law/BATF rules gives credence to state laws.

This is a very large issue, bigger than just guns. For a long time, CA wanted to tax retirement benefits of folks who worked in CA but moved out of CA. Big fight.

Just realize the prospects that you could be in a 3-way tug of war.


Bill Wiese
San Jose

Again, alot of what Bill says rings true.
There is a link from this website or perhaps another to a couple that did a part time residency thing in Colorado and the Kaliban tried taxing the proceeds from a homesale or something to that effect.

I had my own battle when I first moved here from "Free America".

I moved here in November of 1997...took a few weeks off to get settled and started working about a week before Thanksgiving.

In 1998 I filed a State Tax return for the month's wages I earned in this Glorious State.
The *****s tried to tax me on the $60k I made in Florida while a Resident of that State!

At the time I owned no real estate in California, had not voted in an election and they were coming after me like I'd been born here, lived here all my life and one day woke up and decided to not pay any taxes.

I received nasty phonecalls at home and at work, was threataned with legal action and wage garnishment. I fought them and "won"; they agreed to only tax me on the wages I earned in California, but the whole rigamarole cost me $3,000 in the end!

They're more concerned witht the loss of money to fund their liberal feelgood programs; I believe.

My advice to anyone considering "dual-residency" or whatever is this.
If you buy firearms in the other state...leave them there. Even if it's a Kaliban approved pistol that's painted pink and has daisies frowing out of it. It's not worth the hassle.

I considered buying a part time home in NV for a long time...now it's going to be a full time home. They can have this place.

What's sad is it once was a beautiful State...but it's become a festering dungheap of liberalism.

When I move, the only use I'll have for this place will be the backstop for my range.

Ravenslair
06-29-2005, 9:23 AM
Originally posted by bwiese:
I would really, really, really talk to a good residency lawyer on this before you attempt to do something like a 'part-time' residency.

Especially if the primary intent is to get CA-banned guns, and there's not other plainly visible reason for your residency.

There's multiple overlapping issues here: <UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> Federal residency standard
<LI> new state's residency standard
<LI> California's residency standard
[/list]

See, even if you surmount the Fed and other-state's residency standard and become a part-time resident, you might still be a California resident - esp if you're getting income in CA, voting, getting or paying for any CA benefits, etc.

Here's my worry: Calif. doesn't want Calif. residents to acquire guns in other states. If you have that leash from California still on you (cuz you're just a part-time resident in other state) your CA bonds may not have fully slipped from you - that is, there's a chance that CA residency hasn't stopped when other state residency begins. And Fed law/BATF rules gives credence to state laws.

This is a very large issue, bigger than just guns. For a long time, CA wanted to tax retirement benefits of folks who worked in CA but moved out of CA. Big fight.

Just realize the prospects that you could be in a 3-way tug of war.


Bill Wiese
San Jose

Thanks for the insight. I would talk with a lawyer before any firearms were purchased. Better safe than sorry.

Guns are just a small portion of the overall issues I have with CA. I was born and raised here, but feel like my beliefs and those of many CA's are being over-looked to assuage the concerns of those further to the left than myself.

CA has bigger problems than just trampling on the Second Ammendment. We spend money like it grows on trees. We have no plan in place to deal with illegal aliens that tap into our extremely generous social programs. We do nothing to make CA a place for businesses to plant roots. Rather, we tax them to the point that NV says "Come on over".

blah blah blah. I will quit ranting. Again, though, thanks for all the insight.

Ravenslair
06-29-2005, 9:26 AM
Originally posted by Mike Searson:
...What's sad is it's a beautiful State...but it's become a festering dungheap of liberalism.

I will drink to that.

50 Freak
06-29-2005, 9:30 AM
After I move and sell the other house here, I'm going to open an ammunition factory and buy all the guns I wasn't allowed to buy here for the past 8 years!


Can I help with test firing ammo? I love this state. It's pretty much all I know, but I hate the politics and politicians here. I hate having to worry about breaking every freaking gun law if I just buy a 10/22 in Cali. I hate being treated like a second class citizen in the United States. I hate not being able to buy a crappy 2 bedroom 1 bath shack for less than a million. I too am considering moving out of this state. The wifee and I have been seriously talking about it.

jsergovic
06-29-2005, 9:35 AM
When I moved to CA, I was under the impression there was no law that said I could not own my AK. I just could not bring it into the state.

The state imposing what you can own is way too far-reaching an infringement. Who is CA to say what you can and can not own!

Their authority would stop, I believe, when you exit their borders. If it were to be otherwise, where would it end?

Could CA say "Ass4ole Resident, you will be arrested upon return to California because you visited a strip-joint while in New Orleans. Such behavior has been proven to whet the appetite of sexual predators. Deviants like you are a threat, and will receive felony charges through our court system, as well as forfeit of property, with receivables to fund abuse care centers statewide."

So now the situation is "How do I get ownership"? Owning a safe full of rifles, with the safe stored in a friend's garage in Utah, sould be legal. What business is it on CA what you own outside of the state?

50 Freak
06-29-2005, 9:40 AM
I wonder to myself when the damn politicians are going to wake up and notice the freaking mass exodus of people leaving this once great state before they realize something is wrong. Hell, do they need Moses to ***** slap them or something?

I remember a few years ago, in the Bay Area, all the Ryder truck rental shops ran out of trucks as everyone was renting them for a one way trip out. Are the politicians satisfied to see long term residents leaving as long as they get a steady flow of illegal immigrants from the south?

Mike Searson
06-29-2005, 10:01 AM
50,

When I move...you and pretty much any other Calguns member will be more than welcome to shoot at my place!


Actually, if you were classified as a sexual deviant, you would probably have more rights in California than law-abiding gunowners do.

I think everyone's tax dollars would be better spent on that GPS tracking program for sex offenders than it would be on this ammo serialization horsecrap.

Isn't it interesting how democrats and liberals fall over each other protecting pederasts and rapists while demonizing anyone who owns a firearm?

Trader Jack
06-29-2005, 10:18 AM
50 Freak; You are so correct with "many leave and many come."

The truth is that California is way over crowded as it is so the moving of a few million people will not be a great loss. Besides, for every person that leaves, two or more illegals will be crossing the Rio Grande.

The left wing politician's know that with California's easy welfare programs the illegals will vote for them and that is all that matters to them anyway..

50 Freak
06-29-2005, 10:30 AM
The truth is that California is way over crowded as it is so the moving of a few million people will not be a great loss. Besides, for every person that leaves, two or more illegals will be crossing the Rio Grande.

I actually have no problems with immigrants or immigration. Only problem I have are with ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. I believe LEGAL immigrants have made this country great. I believe because of our diverse differences we as a nation are more able to adapt to any situation and overcome any problem in many different ways. It has been a strenght that this country enjoys and is what makes us the BEST DAMN COUNTRY out there (especially over the FRENCH http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif).

Illegal immigrants however start their stay here by breaking our laws. Hell of a way to start if you ask me. They weaken our economy by acting as a huge drain on resources. Some would argue they infuse our economy by paying sales taxes and providing cheap labor. But I don't buy that arguement. I think they take more than they give.

But if Democrats believe this state is stronger with Illegal Immigrants over long established citizens. They are sorely wrong.

bwiese
06-29-2005, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by Woodman:
When I moved to CA, I was under the impression there was no law that said I could not own my AK. I just could not bring it into the state.

The state imposing what you can own is way too far-reaching an infringement. Who is CA to say what you can and can not own!

Their authority would stop, I believe, when you exit their borders. If it were to be otherwise, where would it end?

True. If you have guns that are evil to CA before moving into state but don't bring those into CA, you are indeed allowed to own them.

Similarly, if you were a CA resident and had AWs that you didn't wanna register in 1990 or 2000, you could move them outta state and still legally keep them.

What CA law stops is further acquisition of AWs once you are in CA, and mandates that your gun acquisitions while CA resident are only thru a CA FFL dealer. And supporting Federal law (GCA '68, etc.) was written to give states control of this.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

jsergovic
06-29-2005, 7:29 PM
Thanks, Bill.

That was very clearly said.

Jim [for now a PA resident, but missing Mariposa]

amd64
06-29-2005, 8:24 PM
Woodman : Too bad the unfortunate LA riots did not sweep the nay-sayers out of office [the ones who made it impossible for law-abiding citizens to protect themselves].

One of the great things that came out of the LA riots was that it flooded the populace with guns. I remember in the years 1993 through at least 1996, gun stores located between North Orange County and South Bay area being quite crowded during lunch hours and after work. The 1994 Crime Bill helped a lot too.

It was a gun grabbers worst nightmare… masses of “normal” folks buying hi-cap semi auto rifles and handguns. I remember many times seeing groups of 30-something shirt and tie yuppie types buying multiple sporter AR and AK variants, SKS, etc., dozens of mags, and crates of ammo. The Great Western gun shows at the LA Fairgrounds did very well too in those years. The riots raised the concept of home defense to a new level and did a great job of expanding the California gun enthusiast community.

jnojr
06-30-2005, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by amd64:
The riots raised the concept of home defense to a new level and did a great job of expanding the California gun enthusiast community.

Really? Where is this "gun enthusiast community", and why are they missing every single election?

Lots and lots of californians own guns. But they don't pay attention to, or care about, the laws. I'm sure lots of those yuppie types might have an AK in a closet, unregistered, because they have no idea a law was ever passed. Or they just don't care. Even the people who love to rant and rave on the Internet refuse to do anything in real life.

California gun owners are receiving what they deserve. Those who really are tired of the BS are or will be moving. I'm going to see if redistricting goes through in November. But I won't be surprised if the Socialists in Sacramento get it removed from the ballot or spend tens or hundreds of millions frightening and lying to people to get them to vote no.

dwtt
06-30-2005, 6:32 PM
Originally posted by bwiese: If you have guns that are evil to CA before moving into state but don't bring those into CA, you are indeed allowed to own them.

Similarly, if you were a CA resident and had AWs that you didn't wanna register in 1990 or 2000, you could move them outta state and still legally keep them.


Bill Wiese
San Jose

It's for this reason I was looking into buying a second house in NV and becoming a NV resident, while maintaining my current home in Fremont. In my NV home, I would buy whatever guns I wanted and keep them there, and never break any CA laws.

Sean#2
07-10-2005, 3:38 PM
So there's no way to conduct a private party sale? Would private parties sell to you anyway if you say you are going to keep the gun out of California where the "Caliban" (I like that term) doesn't need to know it exists?

bwiese
07-10-2005, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by Sean#2:
So there's no way to conduct a private party sale? Would private parties sell to you anyway if you say you are going to keep the gun out of California where the "Caliban" (I like that term) doesn't need to know it exists?

Not legally.

And it's quite discourteous to involve others in possible felonies.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

RRangel
07-10-2005, 11:00 PM
Originally posted by 50 Freak:
I wonder to myself when the damn politicians are going to wake up and notice the freaking mass exodus of people leaving this once great state before they realize something is wrong. Hell, do they need Moses to ***** slap them or something?

I remember a few years ago, in the Bay Area, all the Ryder truck rental shops ran out of trucks as everyone was renting them for a one way trip out. Are the politicians satisfied to see long term residents leaving as long as they get a steady flow of illegal immigrants from the south?

You know I don't think they're that ignorant. That is the big problem.

dwtt
07-11-2005, 6:47 PM
Originally posted by Sean#2:
So there's no way to conduct a private party sale? Would private parties sell to you anyway if you say you are going to keep the gun out of California where the "Caliban" (I like that term) doesn't need to know it exists?

If you buy a house in NV and change your residence to NV, then you can buy a gun from another NV resident while following NV's laws. If you then take the, say AK-47, into CA, then you will break CA law, irregardless of which state your residency lie. Changing residency to NV involves more than just buying a house there, you have to get a NV driver's license and give up your CA driver's license, register to vote there, and do other things to show you have a strong tie to NV, not just passing through or staying temporarily. Of course, one really loses nothing by giving up CA residency unless a person is a low income illegal alien collecting welfare and has a terminal disease being treated for free at the county hospital.