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View Full Version : Why even get a C&R?


ledman
08-22-2009, 6:26 PM
I went to the crossroads of the west gun show today in Costa Mesa CA...and there was a guy there selling all Curio and Relic rifles at his table, rifles only, no handguns. He had a sign up that said "Cash and Carry". I know, that IN Cali, you can legally do that between PP for rifles over 50 years old, so no C&R is necessarry or any FFL for that matter and no DROS. This guy said he would never get a C&R becasue he didn't want the BATFE in his business.

Now, I know the benes of a C&R, as I can get long guns from out of state from regular FFL's with NO waiting periods, but it seems kind of silly sometimes, all the dumb laws. If you have just a C&R in California, it really is no good at a regualr FFL, as you still have to DROS and wait 10 days, UNLESS, you get a COE, then you STILL have to DROS, BUT, you do not have to wait 10 days. All these laws, are just crazy.

CHANGE OF SUBJECT

I am thinking hard about moving to Neveda in a few years, at least there, for now, you can have whatever you want, pretty much. No waiting periods, state check only, NO state checks at guns shows, any gun is cash and carry...man, that must be sweet to be so free!
THEN, you can go to downtown Vegas, drink a beer in public, go for a ride in the back of a pickup truck, out of city limits to a cathouse, that is legal, then back to town for some legal gambling, all the while you can drive fast as the speed limits are higher than Cali and stop off at your local gun shop in NEVEDA and by a fully auto M4 and go out to the desert and shoot away to your hearts content, not having to worry about Hi Cap detachable mags, bullet buttons, etc...lol...not that I hate Cali...but man, you start to think about all the freedoms you lose just by living in California.:mad:

Dr. Peter Venkman
08-22-2009, 6:31 PM
With a C&R there is not waiting period between getting a C&R rifle out of state and it getting sent straight to your door. You do not not have to pay ANY transfer cost. I'm not going to even address the full-auto M4 misiniformation in your post, since it is obvious you have not done your homework about C&Rs to begin with.

ledman
08-22-2009, 6:33 PM
With a C&R there is not waiting period between getting a C&R rifle out of state and it getting sent straight to your door. You do not not have to pay ANY transfer cost. I'm not going to even address the full-auto M4 misiniformation in your post, since it is obvious you have not done your homework about C&Rs to begin with.

Say WHAT??? Did you read my post, or just skim it? please re-read it. The local FFL's, if you were to purchase a C&R rifle, make your DROS it...Turners does, and they charge you the 25 bucks, as does Big 5.

ke6guj
08-22-2009, 6:35 PM
what M4 misinformation? As an NV resident, he could go to his local gun shop (if they have an SOT) and buy a full-auto M4. Yes, there are hoops that must be jumped through with the Form 4 paperwork, but he can buy it and once he is approved, could take it out to the desert and blast away.

ledman
08-22-2009, 6:39 PM
what M4 misinformation? As an NV resident, he could go to his local gun shop (if they have an SOT) and buy a full-auto M4. Yes, there are hoops that must be jumped through with the Form 4 paperwork, but he can buy it and once he is approved, could take it out to the desert and blast away.

I am glad someone else here speaks the same language as me...:44: There, Dr Peter Venkman, I updated my post just for you, put in in red, made it bold, and put up a change of subject, maybe that will help you see what I wrote:P Really, if I am wrong about something, please, tell me, I really do not think I am mis-informed at all. I hold a current C&R FFL 03, and like to think I am pretty up to date on what I can and cannot do with it.

Mssr. Eleganté
08-22-2009, 6:43 PM
what M4 misinformation?

Maybe Venkman was talking about the fact that before the OP edited his post, he said you could buy a full auto M4 at gin shop. :p

Dr. Peter Venkman
08-22-2009, 6:46 PM
what M4 misinformation? As an NV resident, he could go to his local gun shop (if they have an SOT) and buy a full-auto M4. Yes, there are hoops that must be jumped through with the Form 4 paperwork, but he can buy it and once he is approved, could take it out to the desert and blast away.

Thanks for mentioning the big "what if". The misiniformation is "not wanting to get in the ATF's business" when the NFA items are on their books to begin with, as is being able to buy a full auto M4 from anywhere. They are controlled items.

I am glad someone else here speaks the same language as me... There, Dr Peter Venkman, I updated my post just for you, put in in red, made it bold, and put up a change of subject, maybe that will help you see what I wrote:P

I did see what you wrote and ALL firearms go through a federal check via NICS when purchased from a gunshop. Nevada FFLs go through their state who does it for them, as opposed to contacting the FBI by themselves.

Maybe Venkman was talking about the fact that before the OP edited his post, he said you could buy a full auto M4 at gin shop. :p

lol

glennsche
08-22-2009, 6:52 PM
Say WHAT??? Did you read my post, or just skim it? please re-read it. The local FFL's, if you were to purchase a C&R rifle, make your DROS it...Turners does, and they charge you the 25 bucks, as does Big 5.

if you buy a C&R rifle in CA with a gundealer who knows what they're doing then its cash carry same day. big5 monkeys dont always know this, but i've had plenty of luck with gun dealers. bought C&R guns in santa barbara, in LA, etc with the C&R and its like buying a stereo or something. no dros. theres a form, and then you go home with the gun.

the main advantage i've seen with the C&R is price arbitrage; guns in CA, like everything in CA, are more expensive due to simple economics. People make money here. I've gotten guns delivered to my house from folks in other states at steal prices by CA standards because they live in Unemploymentville Michigan or Redneckton, KY, and things are just cheaper elsewhere.

as to "all these laws" concerning C&R; i think personally that's a bit of an overstatement; all you do is write something down in a book, and dont engage in active commerce. its not like the ATF is coming to my house weekly or anything. This is perfect for me, as the casual collector. for me, the chance to buy guns at significant savings delivered to my door in the mail from other states more than compensates for TEH GUBBERMINT GETS IN MA BIDNESS.

ke6guj
08-22-2009, 6:55 PM
Thanks for mentioning the big "what if". The misiniformation is "not wanting to get in the ATF's business" when the NFA items are on their books to begin with, as is being able to buy a full auto M4 from anywhere. They are controlled items.OK, but even that SOT deal isn't set in stone. You could even buy an M4 from another private party in NV without even setting foot in a dealer. The seller would send in the Form 4, and the approved Form 4 would be mailed back to him. He'd then call the buyer to pick up his new toy.

I still dont' see him spewing any misinformation about "being in someone's business". That reference was regarding one seller's comments at the gun show.

ledman
08-22-2009, 6:57 PM
Maybe Venkman was talking about the fact that before the OP edited his post, he said you could buy a full auto M4 at gin shop. :p

LMAO!! Yeah...I have never even been to a GIN shop lol

ke6guj
08-22-2009, 6:58 PM
if you buy a C&R rifle in CA with a gundealer who knows what they're doing then its cash carry same day. big5 monkeys dont always know this, but i've had plenty of luck with gun dealers. bought C&R guns in santa barbara, in LA, etc with the C&R and its like buying a stereo or something. no dros. theres a form, and then you go home with the gun.WHAT?? That would be incorrect.

With just a C&R, you gain no privledges when buying a C&R firearm from a licensed dealer in CA. You have to DROS and 10-day wait.

If you have a COE with your C&R, you can cash-and-carry (no 10-day wait)from a dealer, but you must still DROS.

12078(t)(1) The waiting period described in Sections 12071 or 12072 shall not apply to the sale, delivery, loan, or transfer of a firearm that is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor, by a dealer to a person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto who has a current certificate of eligibility issued to him or her by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12071. On the date that the delivery, sale, or transfer is made, the dealer delivering the firearm shall transmit to the Department of Justice an electronic or telephonic report of the transaction as is indicated in subdivision (b) or (c) of Section 12077. Bold is where the 10-day wait does not apply. The underlined section still requres it to be DROSed.

Dr. Peter Venkman
08-22-2009, 6:58 PM
OK, but even that SOT deal isn't set in stone. You could even buy an M4 from another private party in NV without even setting foot in a dealer. The seller would send in the Form 4, and the approved Form 4 would be mailed back to him. He'd then call the buyer to pick up his new toy.

I still dont' see how him spewing any misinformation about "being in someone's business". That reference was regarding one seller's comments at the gun show.

The overall gist I am getting from his post is that in Nevada he is more free to do what he wants including buying a full-auto M4 and not going through a background check at the local gunshop. That's simply not the case and he is not talking about purchasing it from a private party. Given that he does not see the point of a C&R due to the background check aspect anyways, his information is not correct.

ledman
08-22-2009, 7:00 PM
if you buy a C&R rifle in CA with a gundealer who knows what they're doing then its cash carry same day. big5 monkeys dont always know this, but i've had plenty of luck with gun dealers. bought C&R guns in santa barbara, in LA, etc with the C&R and its like buying a stereo or something. no dros. theres a form, and then you go home with the gun.

the main advantage i've seen with the C&R is price arbitrage; guns in CA, like everything in CA, are more expensive due to simple economics. People make money here. I've gotten guns delivered to my house from folks in other states at steal prices by CA standards because they live in Unemploymentville Michigan or Redneckton, KY, and things are just cheaper elsewhere.

as to "all these laws" concerning C&R; i think personally that's a bit of an overstatement; all you do is write something down in a book, and dont engage in active commerce. its not like the ATF is coming to my house weekly or anything. This is perfect for me, as the casual collector. for me, the chance to buy guns at significant savings delivered to my door in the mail from other states more than compensates for TEH GUBBERMINT GETS IN MA BIDNESS.

O, I agree with you about Big 5 etc, thats what I am talking about, the laws, confuse these dealers, and they would just rather ignore the facts than doing it the right way. I didn't mean the laws are too harsh on C&R collectors, I am meaning it CAN be hard for a C&R holder in California, to take FULL advantage of his or her C&R, due to the fact that these "monkeys" refuse to understand the laws on curio and relic weapons.

ledman
08-22-2009, 7:04 PM
The overall gist I am getting from his post is that in Nevada he is more free to do what he wants including buying a full-auto M4 and not going through a background check at the local gunshop. That's simply not the case and he is not talking about purchasing it from a private party. Given that he does not see the point of a C&R due to the background check aspect anyways, his information is not correct.


I never said you don't have to go through a check at the local gunshop in NV? What I did say, was you just drop by yout local guns shop and pick up a full auto M4, as, you cannot do that in California.I did say, you do not have a waiting period.

Dr. Peter Venkman
08-22-2009, 7:17 PM
I never said you don't have to go through a check at the local gunshop in NV? What I did say, was you just drop by yout local guns shop and pick up a full auto M4, as, you cannot do that in California.I did say, you do not have a waiting period.

You said state check only. Not going to happen.

ledman
08-22-2009, 7:19 PM
You said state check only. Not going to happen.

Yes, I did say that...so you are saying they HAVE to use NICS? It's still instant though no waiting periods...and only a 72 hour waiting period on handguns I believe from a dealer, long rifles, cash and carry afer passing the check from a dealer, but anyways...all said and done, a C&R license is still pretty useless within the state of California, as to be C&R the guns has to be 50 years or older, but state law dictates, that within the state, PPT of long rifles over 50 years or older, can be done with out a C&R. So, why even get one? Becasue, you can better utlize it for out of state purchases with 01 FFL's. ANY FFL 01 I have gone to, will DROS a C&R rifle, regardless of C&R license or not, even with a COE, they still do a DROS, your better off just doing PP sales and trades of C&R rifles. no DROS, no wait...cash and carry...NO C&R FFL 03 required.

Anthonysmanifesto
08-22-2009, 7:22 PM
why?

discounts!

mail order!

gun broker!

ledman
08-22-2009, 7:27 PM
why?

discounts!

mail order!

gun broker!

My point exactly...did he mention using it IN California...NO!! MAIL ORDER...GUN BROKER...thats where it works best.

Sabot
08-22-2009, 8:18 PM
I got my C&R licence 1 week before President Hussein Obama came into power. I got so wee-weed up that I bought 55 rifles in a 6 month period, no BS on that either. I bought a few from on-line stores, most through Gunbroker, really nice collectable rifles that are rich in history, guns that I wouldn't be able to find in my local area at any price, but I got some of them for a good deal too. I get a dealer discount at Grafs and MidwayUSA, and CenturyArms won't sell ammo to California unless you have an FFL.

Why even get a C&R? Hell, beats me. ;)

Dr. Peter Venkman
08-22-2009, 8:33 PM
Yes, I did say that...so you are saying they HAVE to use NICS? It's still instant though no waiting periods...and only a 72 hour waiting period on handguns I believe from a dealer, long rifles, cash and carry afer passing the check from a dealer, but anyways...all said and done, a C&R license is still pretty useless within the state of California, as to be C&R the guns has to be 50 years or older, but state law dictates, that within the state, PPT of long rifles over 50 years or older, can be done with out a C&R. So, why even get one? Becasue, you can better utlize it for out of state purchases with 01 FFL's. ANY FFL 01 I have gone to, will DROS a C&R rifle, regardless of C&R license or not, even with a COE, they still do a DROS, your better off just doing PP sales and trades of C&R rifles. no DROS, no wait...cash and carry...NO C&R FFL 03 required.

Every gun purchased at a gunshop in this country is going to go through NICS. You still DROS in any other state IIRC, it's part of the check.

My point exactly...did he mention using it IN California...NO!! MAIL ORDER...GUN BROKER...thats where it works best.

I use mine in California all the time. Try to get someone to ship a C&R to you when you don't have a license when you are both in California. It's a long commute from the bay area to Sacramento or San Diego to do a private transfer. My K11, K31, M27, etc, came from other people in California. You don't know what you're talking about.

ledman
08-22-2009, 9:05 PM
Every gun purchased at a gunshop in this country is going to go through NICS. You still DROS in any other state IIRC, it's part of the check.



I use mine in California all the time. Try to get someone to ship a C&R to you when you don't have a license when you are both in California. It's a long commute from the bay area to Sacramento or San Diego to do a private transfer. My K11, K31, M27, etc, came from other people in California. You don't know what you're talking about.

OK, fine, I don't know what I am talking about, you win. I can see you are never wrong there Dr., and your a DR, so you MUST be smarter than me.
All I know is, that to buy a C&R rifle in CA from a PP, you do not need to have a C&R within the state of CA. Period. Everyone is missing my point, why have a C&R to use within CA, you don't need one. It's really only good for online, out of state purchases. I have bought many C&R rifles without using my C&R inside the state of CA from PP that do not have a C&R that also reside in CA, no need within CA as again, rifles over 50 years old are cash and carry, no C&R FFL 03 needed! Can I be any clearer on this???. Out of state, yes, I need to use my C&R for C&R purchases.

Josh3239
08-22-2009, 9:10 PM
Eh, I just got mine for the discounts. They are pretty nice and may have to pick up an another M1 Garand plus an M1 Carbine and an SKS all shipped straight to my door :D

Cato
08-22-2009, 9:36 PM
I got my C&R so I could buy guns online. It's nice to be able to buy guns from out of state and get them delivered to your door. Also prices are always better in free states. Also it's cool to have a FFL, even if it's just a C&R! I've never been to a gunshow in my life.

ledman
08-22-2009, 10:04 PM
I got my C&R so I could buy guns online. It's nice to be able to buy guns from out of state and get them delivered to your door. Also prices are always better in free states. Also it's cool to have a FFL, even if it's just a C&R! I've never been to a gunshow in my life.

that is why I got mine. It's just a C&R within California is useless for California only purchases.

Anyways...the gun show is still going on tomorrow at the CM fairgrounds. Lots of stuff to see, LOTS of Garands and Carbines, some priced well, some WAY over priced. Lots of ammo, lots of knives and bayos, still, fun to go to.
14 bucks to get in and 5 bucks to park, go check it out.

http://www.crossroadsgunshows.com/

glennsche
08-23-2009, 12:09 AM
WHAT?? That would be incorrect.

With just a C&R, you gain no privledges when buying a C&R firearm from a licensed dealer in CA. You have to DROS and 10-day wait.

If you have a COE with your C&R, you can cash-and-carry (no 10-day wait)from a dealer, but you must still DROS.

Bold is where the 10-day wait does not apply. The underlined section still requres it to be DROSed.

dude. i've done it. multiple times. you do not need a COE for a long gun. period. what part of "i have bought long guns same day cash carry from gun dealers in CA w/out dros" was unclear.

Dr Rockso
08-23-2009, 12:23 AM
dude. i've done it. multiple times. you do not need a COE for a long gun. period. what part of "i have bought long guns same day cash carry from gun dealers in CA w/out dros" was unclear.
Just because you've found dealers who do it doesn't mean it's legal. After reading the C&R subforum for a while I've found that ke6guj is a guy I'd listen to on this sort of matter. Especially when he's kind enough to post the PC that clearly requires an 03 FFL, a COE, and a DROS when buying C&R firearms from a dealer without the 10 day wait.

glennsche
08-23-2009, 12:31 AM
Just because you've found dealers who do it doesn't mean it's legal. After reading the C&R subforum for a while I've found that ke6guj is a guy I'd listen to on this sort of matter. Especially when he's kind enough to post the PC that clearly requires an 03 FFL, a COE, and a DROS when buying C&R firearms from a dealer without the 10 day wait.

yeah i'm sure those dealers were ignorant of the laws upon which their livelihood depends.

you. do. not. need. a. coe. with. long guns.

ke6guj
08-23-2009, 12:35 AM
dude. you're an idiot. i've done it. multiple times.

just because you've done it multiple times doesn't make it legal. Not all dealers know how to properly sell to a C&R FFL.

Mssr. Eleganté
08-23-2009, 12:35 AM
yeah i'm sure those dealers were ignorant of the laws upon which their livelihood depends.

you. do. not. need. a. coe. with. long guns.

Um, yes you do. The law says so. I'm not doubting that some Dealers are ignorant of the laws upon which their livelihoods depend though. You are 100% correct on that one.

ke6guj
08-23-2009, 12:36 AM
yeah i'm sure those dealers were ignorant of the laws upon which their livelihood depends.many dealers are.

you. do. not. need. a. coe. with. long guns.OK, how bout you back up your opinion with PC that supports it, http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/ ?

steelrain82
08-23-2009, 12:43 AM
ok since you don't need a c&r for 50+ year old rifles what about ones that are considered c&r but aren't 50+. wouldn't that come in handy than. please don't bash just trying to learn

Dr Rockso
08-23-2009, 12:43 AM
you. do. not. need. a. coe. with. long guns.
Lets see, we have the bolded and underlined verbatim copy of the law versus a sentence with eight periods. Fine, I'm convinced :rolleyes:

Dr Rockso
08-23-2009, 12:47 AM
ok since you don't need a c&r for 50+ year old rifles what about ones that are considered c&r but aren't 50+. wouldn't that come in handy than. please don't bash just trying to learn
If you're only buying inside CA, not really. You can, however, travel outside the state and buy any C&R-listed firearm (handgun or rifle, regardless of age) and bring it back with you provided it is not an assault weapon or destructive device. Handguns must be registered by mailing a form to the DOJ.

Mssr. Eleganté
08-23-2009, 12:50 AM
ok since you don't need a c&r for 50+ year old rifles what about ones that are considered c&r but aren't 50+. wouldn't that come in handy than. please don't bash just trying to learn

If you want to buy C&R long guns that are not yet 50 years old or C&R handguns of any age within California, then a C&R FFL doesn't really help you that much. If you also have a COE then you can buy C&R long guns and handguns of any age from a California Licensed Dealer without having to wait the ten days. You still have to DROS them, but you can take them home as soon as the background check clears (usually 5 minutes).

But having just a C&R FFL really does help if you want to buy C&R long guns and handguns of any age while you are traveling outside of California. Once outside of California, a C&R FFL can buy C&R long guns and handguns of any age and bring them back to California.

Dr. Peter Venkman
08-23-2009, 3:14 AM
OK, fine, I don't know what I am talking about, you win. I can see you are never wrong there Dr., and your a DR, so you MUST be smarter than me.
All I know is, that to buy a C&R rifle in CA from a PP, you do not need to have a C&R within the state of CA. Period. Everyone is missing my point, why have a C&R to use within CA, you don't need one. It's really only good for online, out of state purchases. I have bought many C&R rifles without using my C&R inside the state of CA from PP that do not have a C&R that also reside in CA, no need within CA as again, rifles over 50 years old are cash and carry, no C&R FFL 03 needed! Can I be any clearer on this???. Out of state, yes, I need to use my C&R for C&R purchases.

:rolleyes:

How many C&Rs do you have, ledman?

trautert
08-23-2009, 9:33 AM
Three times I have applied for and been issued an 03 C&R FFL. Each time I let it expire when the time came. Twice I applied for a new one after about 6 months or so. This last one has been expired since July. I haven't really had much need to show the license, since I bought mostly in-state rifles more than 50 years old. The licenses always paid for themselves, though, just with the discounts at Midway and Brownell's.

I had the Cert of Elig. from the time of the first license through this past January when I let that expire as well. Just didn't see any use for it anymore.

Tom

hawk81
08-23-2009, 10:25 AM
I buy curio rifles online and it pays off to have the liscense.

M. D. Van Norman
08-23-2009, 1:29 PM
I have never “used” my FFLs in California, but without them, I may not easily shop for C&R firearms in other states.

ledman
08-23-2009, 2:21 PM
:rolleyes:

How many C&Rs do you have, ledman?

lol...well, I had to go count them. I have allot. Are you questioning me having a C&R there DOC? How many do you have...or do you just have and read all the law books so you can come on here and try to make guys like me look like a smchuck?:rolleyes: I am open to learn new things, but, when you just plain out tell me I do not know what I am talking about, well, that is just plain rude.:(

Dr. Peter Venkman
08-23-2009, 10:25 PM
lol...well, I had to go count them. I have allot. Are you questioning me having a C&R there DOC? How many do you have...or do you just have and read all the law books so you can come on here and try to make guys like me look like a smchuck?:rolleyes: I am open to learn new things, but, when you just plain out tell me I do not know what I am talking about, well, that is just plain rude.:(

I'm not questioning whether or not you have a C&R, that's not the point. Try getting a seller of a C&R to SHIP one to you intrastate when you don't have one. It's not going to happen. There is too much risk and liability. A C&R leaves all of that worry behind.

And I am not trying to make "guys like you look like a schmuck". You said you can go into Nevada with only a state check and buy a full auto M4. That's not the case. All firearms from a gunshop go through a Federal background and full autos are a controlled item by the ATF that require separate paperwork. On top of this, there are many reasons to have a C&R California which you find to be useless. Getting stuff shipped to you no problems from people WITHIN the state is one of them, as is getting discounts from major distributors.

To answer your question, I have about 40 C&R rifles, most of which were utilized using the C&R license, many coming from WITHIN this state getting shipped to me. I'm not here with an agenda but you're facts were wrong. It is not a matter of rudeness but of being correct.

joefrank64k
08-24-2009, 9:05 AM
All I know is, that to buy a C&R rifle in CA from a PP, you do not need to have a C&R within the state of CA. Period. Everyone is missing my point, why have a C&R to use within CA, you don't need one. It's really only good for online, out of state purchases. I have bought many C&R rifles without using my C&R inside the state of CA from PP that do not have a C&R that also reside in CA, no need within CA as again, rifles over 50 years old are cash and carry, no C&R FFL 03 needed! Can I be any clearer on this???. Out of state, yes, I need to use my C&R for C&R purchases.

Of course you don't need an 03 FFL in CA to purchase C&R PPT, but you find the real deals out of state! You get dealer access to Century Arms International and SOG, to name 2, and save big $.

As others have pointed out, it's the DISCOUNTS that really make the 03 FFL worth it! The $30 I spent on getting my C&R has been paid back several times over, just in the significant discounts you get from Brownells, MidwayUSA, Numrich, and others. 25% off is not uncommon!!!

olhunter
08-24-2009, 10:27 AM
The absolute BEST reason for having an 03FFL is to get rid of all that pesky money you have just sitting there.

joefrank64k
08-24-2009, 11:59 AM
The absolute BEST reason for having an 03FFL is to get rid of all that pesky money you have just sitting there.

AMEN TO THAT, BROTHER!!! :rofl2:

Mr Wizard
08-24-2009, 12:56 PM
As in the words of the imfamous Rodney King, "can't we all just git along?"

Seems to me that Ledman made an over simplified statement regarding the differences in state gun laws and the good Dr. called out the etiquette police.
Bottom line is a 03 license is only as valuable as you personally think it is.
I applied for mine knowing it wouldn't be much use in CA w/o a COE, but I planned on using mine mostly for out of state purchases anyway.

Stand down...;)

1923mack
08-24-2009, 1:44 PM
Does the BATF do in home inspections for C&R FFL's?

Anthonysmanifesto
08-24-2009, 3:07 PM
Does the BATF do in home inspections for C&R FFL's?

they may inspect you book once a year by appointment under normal circumstances.

Mr Wizard
08-24-2009, 3:14 PM
Does the BATF do in home inspections for C&R FFL's?

I haven't had my license long enough to warrant a visit, but the info packet I received from the BATF stated by issuance of the FFL you agree to inspection.
I believe they have to make an appointment as opposed to showing up during business hours at an 01 dealer.
Please someone (politely)correct me if I'm wrong.

scootergmc
08-24-2009, 3:21 PM
You can take the inspection to their office: 27 CFR 178.23(c).

joefrank64k
08-24-2009, 3:22 PM
I haven't had my license long enough to warrant a visit, but the info packet I received from the BATF stated by issuance of the FFL you agree to inspection.
I believe they have to make an appointment as opposed to showing up during business hours at an 01 dealer.
Please someone (politely)correct me if I'm wrong.

I've heard similar stories...they have a look at your Bound Book by appt. and that's about it.

And I imagine it's like anything else when dealing with any Govt. Agency that's charged with enforcement...they've got enough on their plate and don't care about John Q collector UNLESS you give them something to care about...like buying multiples of guns and then transferring them right away, or acting as a Straw Buyer, or some other knuckleheaded move.

DWarner
08-24-2009, 8:16 PM
There is one benefit to not having a C&R license. If your guns are going to your FFL, your old lady won't bust you when the big boxes show up on your porch. Sure, I have wasted a small fortune on transfer fees, but, the wife doesn't have a clue! YMMV.

mds2004
08-24-2009, 8:21 PM
I have saved more than enough money with my C&R soley from my Midway purchases.