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sac550
08-22-2009, 9:41 AM
It is clear that an AR-15 type firearm with the upper separated from the lower can't be an AW, b/c it is not a semi-auto, centerfire rifle.

How would the same concept apply to lets say a AK-47 type (not listed firearm) that has been broken down. Or lets say you have an AB-10 that is in parts. Again it is not listed, so would the weapon be just a firearm and parts? If not an AW then how many parts have to be removed before it is no longer considered an AW. Would it basically have to be in a condition where it could fire? Could DOJ call the AB 10 in parts a semi auto pistol with a detachable magazine located outside the pistol grip? My questions could be applied to any non AR-15 type weapon.

Hopi
08-22-2009, 9:51 AM
If the rifle is complete, sans the gas piston, it would be compliant.

hawk81
08-22-2009, 5:39 PM
If the gun is taken apart and can not fire in semi-automatic mode, it is not considered an assault weapon.

ke6guj
08-22-2009, 6:15 PM
but IIRC, there has been at least one conviction fron an AW that just had the bolt removed from it when the defendant became aware of legal interest in him. He removed the bolt and tried to claim it was not a semi-automatic rifle anymore, to no avail.

sac550
08-22-2009, 10:37 PM
but IIRC, there has been at least one conviction fron an AW that just had the bolt removed from it when the defendant became aware of legal interest in him. He removed the bolt and tried to claim it was not a semi-automatic rifle anymore, to no avail.

If the bolt were removed I think it would depend on what kind of firearm it is. If it were a firearm that could be converted to a .22 (say and m4 with the bolt removed) I think you could make an argument it isn't a center fire. However, if the firearm can't be converted to a .22 then I think it would be hard to defend a rifle just b/c the bolt was removed.

Also just because someone was convicted doesn't been it was illegal. If your attorney doesn't make the right arguments and put on the right defense you could get convicted of a crime when you didn't do anything wrong.

bwiese
08-23-2009, 1:54 AM
Remember to put a lot of distance between "broken AW" and "this is not an AW". Concrete steps to render identifiably "nonAW" are most useful and are a practical necessity,

While in theory an operating upper separated from a stripped lower is not an AW, and constructive possession doesn't apply - that still may end up being considered an AW in a traffic stop with an elevated fight at pretrial.
It also "just doens't smell good" to have a gun whose direct and quick assembled outcome is illegal.

Driving around with separated items that are AWs when assembled should be avoided.

Taking affirmative further steps - removing grips/using MMG + no evil features, or removing gas pistol + closing gas port, or affixing a BulletButton type maglock device with 10rd mag - makes your intent to not have an AW far more clear: you've taken affirmative steps such that even assembled halves are not an AW.

Remember that judges/courts in busy metro areas already have an antigun bias. You need bite-sized reasoning to make things easier to understand (and easier/cheaper for prospective lawyer to defend).

Blackhawk556
08-23-2009, 10:44 AM
When I go to the range I separate the lower from the upper and sometimes I remove the pistol grip. Are you guys saying this can still be considered an assault weapon?
What would be the best thing to do? Just leave it assembled in the case ?

MP301
08-23-2009, 10:54 AM
Remember that as soon as you put it together, if there is no bullet button or similar device, it becomes illegal if it has evil features. I have heard of LE jacking people at the range checking thier weapons. If it is properly configured, then there is no need to take it apart...

Blackhawk556
08-23-2009, 12:54 PM
Remember that as soon as you put it together, if there is no bullet button or similar device, it becomes illegal if it has evil features. I have heard of LE jacking people at the range checking thier weapons. If it is properly configured, then there is no need to take it apart...

Are you replying to the OP?

Let's say my rifle does have bullet button and I break the lower and upper, if a cop stops me and let's say he arrests me for having an assault. Will that be an easy case to defend ?

hoffmang
08-23-2009, 7:36 PM
What Bill was saying is this. If the firearm would otherwise be an AW when assembled, dissasembling it doesn't help much. If you were to break a BB'ed AR in half, you make it even clearer that it was not and can never be an AW.

These days, I wouldn't worry about it. Just to keep things simple keep a 10 round mag in a BB build when transporting. However, we've had no charges filed from a seizure of an open magwell BB AR. DA agreed it didn't have the capacity to accept any ammunition feeding device that could be removed without the use of a tool.

-Gene

sac550
08-23-2009, 8:03 PM
It seems it might come down to if, the rifle when disassembled could be built into a legal rifle or not. I.e, a ar 15 when disassembled could still be built into a legal rifle and thus is not center fire or semi auto. However, most weapons are not broken down into an upper and lower so that same argument would be very difficult to make.

Blackhawk556
08-24-2009, 1:08 AM
What Bill was saying is this. If the firearm would otherwise be an AW when assembled, dissasembling it doesn't help much. If you were to break a BB'ed AR in half, you make it even clearer that it was not and can never be an AW.

These days, I wouldn't worry about it. Just to keep things simple keep a 10 round mag in a BB build when transporting. However, we've had no charges filed from a seizure of an open magwell BB AR. DA agreed it didn't have the capacity to accept any ammunition feeding device that could be removed without the use of a tool.

-Gene


This is excellent this is what I wanted to read.
Thanks Gene