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MadRiverArms
08-20-2009, 10:22 AM
I have a question for my fellow FFLs here in California. When selling stripped lowers do you include a gun lock with the transaction for each lower?

-G

FortCourageArmory
08-20-2009, 11:19 AM
Yes....

thedrickel
08-20-2009, 12:25 PM
The purchaser can fill out a safe affidavit to avoid purchasing a gun lock.

mlatino
08-20-2009, 12:45 PM
thedrickel: I was reading your sig line.

Is it standard to tip your FFL when he does a PPT for you?
How many people actually tip you when they do a PPT, seeing as to how the state already gauges you for $25, I doubt too many people are willing to part with more cash!

SORRY about the thread-jack.

MadRiverArms
08-20-2009, 1:33 PM
Pretty much as I figured it but what CA approved brand and model is acceptable for a bare lower?

-G

LIFELINE
08-20-2009, 1:45 PM
I have a question for my fellow FFLs here in California. When selling stripped lowers do you include a gun lock with the transaction for each lower?

-G

YES????

Is this true? Are buyer required to purchase a gun lock when buying a stripped lower receiver? That doesn't make sense, do you have to lock the stripped lower receiver & put it in the trunk of your car on the way home. This in new to me. :confused:

tenpercentfirearms
08-21-2009, 7:53 AM
YES????

Is this true? Are buyer required to purchase a gun lock when buying a stripped lower receiver? That doesn't make sense, do you have to lock the stripped lower receiver & put it in the trunk of your car on the way home. This in new to me. :confused:

Woah FUD Muffin. Settle down. You live in California, stop thinking anything is supposed to make sense.

All firearms transactions in CA must be accompanyied by an approved Firearms Safety Device or can be exempted by a gun safe affidavit or for LEO service weapons. PERIOD! Receivers are no different.

Add into that that the federal government now requires all handguns actually be accompanied by a lock. So a safe affidavit would work for the state on a handgun, but not for the feds. So pretty much all handguns must come with a lock.

Also remember that CA FFLs may not deliver any FSDs not approved for sale. If the gun comes with an unapproved lock, you must remove it from the box and you may not deliver it to the dealer.

Receivers are transported the same way long guns are transported (assuming you are not LEO and DROSing a pistol lower). There is no requirement they be locked or in a locked container for transportation.

However, there is PC that specifies all firearms must be delivered to the customer in a box. I don't think this one is enforced or complied with as often as it should be.

kemasa
08-21-2009, 9:20 AM
thedrickel: I was reading your sig line.

Is it standard to tip your FFL when he does a PPT for you?
How many people actually tip you when they do a PPT, seeing as to how the state already gauges you for $25, I doubt too many people are willing to part with more cash!
.

What does how much money the state gets have to do with what the FFL gets? I have never seen a FFL get tipped, but it does not hurt to ask I guess. I would say that it is not standard.

kemasa
08-21-2009, 9:39 AM
However, there is PC that specifies all firearms must be delivered to the customer in a box. I don't think this one is enforced or complied with as often as it should be.

12071 (b) A license is subject to forfeiture for a breach of any of the
following prohibitions and requirements:
(3) No firearm shall be delivered:
(B) Unless unloaded and securely wrapped or unloaded and in a
locked container.

The question that I have is what is "securely wrapped"???? It is not just in a box.

Also, how many follow "Each firearm sold by firearms dealers must be accompanied by a child safety warning label."?

ke6guj
08-21-2009, 10:21 AM
Add into that that the federal government now requires all handguns actually be accompanied by a lock. So a safe affidavit would work for the state on a handgun, but not for the feds. So pretty much all handguns must come with a lock.


Do you allow the Safe Affidavit for C&R handguns or for all handgun transfers to a C&R FFL, since both scenarios are exempt from the federal law, and would only need to comply with state law?

shark92651
08-21-2009, 10:22 AM
Woah FUD Muffin.

FUD Muffin!? No offense to the recipient of that label, but you have to admit that is funny :rofl:

kemasa
08-21-2009, 10:30 AM
One thing that is interesting about the Federal law is that it has yet to be properly published, so there is some question as to whether it can actually be enforced. The letter stated that it would be added to the FAQ, but that has not happened. The BATF lawyer says that the FFL has to provide the lock or safe, which does not seem to match the intent of the law, but you know how lawyers can be, based on which side they are on.

From what I can gather, there is a bit of a problem with it and so basically the BATF is ignoring it for now. I would not count on that though.

tenpercentfirearms
08-21-2009, 12:14 PM
Do you allow the Safe Affidavit for C&R handguns or for all handgun transfers to a C&R FFL, since both scenarios are exempt from the federal law, and would only need to comply with state law?

I have never had that one come up so I don't have a policy for it. I guess if you could show me that C&R is exemplt I would take the safe affidavit. However, I have hundreds of free locks from the Taft PD so I haven't sold a lock in probably like two years and I just give locks to everyone to avoid having to even fill out the safe affidavit and storing it.

ke6guj
08-21-2009, 12:33 PM
it appears that C&R licensees are exempt from the entire federal Child Safety Lock Act and would only need to comply with the CA safey device law, which can be covered with the Safe Affidavit.


TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > 922
922. Unlawful acts
...
(z) Secure Gun Storage or Safety Device.—
(1) In general.— Except as provided under paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer to sell, deliver, or transfer any handgun to any person other than any person licensed under this chapter, unless the transferee is provided with a secure gun storage or safety device (as defined in section 921 (a)(34)) for that handgun. C&R FFLs are a person licensed under this chapter, Chapter 44 so they should be exempt from the entire federal handgun lock requirement.


And the C&R handgun exemption,
(2) Exceptions.— Paragraph (1) shall not apply to—
(A)
(C) the transfer to any person of a handgun listed as a curio or relic by the Secretary pursuant to section 921 (a)(13);

But, since you have free locks to give away with the transfer, then, it doesn't sound like you need to concern yourself with the federal exemptions and the CA Safe Affidavit. As you mentioned, less paperwork.

CALPsidewinder
08-23-2009, 8:52 AM
Just curious but how would you lock a stripped lower, as it doesn't have the trigger guard? Or would you need a wire type lock that goes through the top of the receiver and out through the mag hole, etc?

kemasa
08-23-2009, 8:59 AM
A lock through it would work. You can also lock it in a case.

One funny story is when I shipped a lower through UPS. They require handguns to be shipped overnight, so when I told them that it was a firearm and I was not shipping it overnight they had an issue since it was so small. Trying to explain that a lower is actually a firearm, not a gun part, and that it was a longgun, was quite interesting.

eltee
08-23-2009, 9:34 AM
Do you need to have a dealer/mfg. shipping a stripped OLL receiver into California obtain the CFLC authorization letter as well? I looked at the flowchart but it refers to "firearms."

I'm assuming the suits treat a stripped OLL receiver as a firearm for CFLC, DROS, 4473, etc. purposes?

kemasa
08-23-2009, 9:45 AM
A stripped lower receiver is considered a firearm, so the CFLC letter is required if a FFL ships it into CA.

eltee
08-23-2009, 12:15 PM
Thanks for confirming that the CFLC is required. I thought so. Just dbl. checking.

+1 on the freebie locks. I just give everyone one and mark "Approved lock given to buyer" on the DROS "comments" line and on # 30C of the 4473.

tenpercentfirearms
08-23-2009, 5:27 PM
Thanks for confirming that the CFLC is required. I thought so. Just dbl. checking.

+1 on the freebie locks. I just give everyone one and mark "Approved lock given to buyer" on the DROS "comments" line and on # 30C of the 4473.

I would highly recommend you put the lock make and model number instead of just "approved". Unless you have been audited and they said that was fine.

kemasa
08-23-2009, 5:36 PM
What is the make and model of the free locks?

I agree that it is best to list what lock is used, just so there is no question about it and so that you can not be accused of not providing an approved lock.