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View Full Version : Turners spreading more FUD?


neomentat
08-17-2009, 5:22 PM
So I was at Turners today and the guy there was telling me that in California, if you don't lock your guns with a CA legal lock, and it subsequently gets stolen and is used in a crime, then you're guilty of a felony.

I have never heard of such a thing, is this more FUD being spread by Turners? Or is there some truth to this?


this same employee also said "H&K uses Kevlar in their polymer pistol frame which is way stronger than Glock's polymer frame".


The last time I checked Kevlar is a type of weave, how the hell can molded polymer be even considered Kevlar? Turners have some idiots for employees.

rcantu
08-17-2009, 5:25 PM
Well those locks aren't even stronger than bike locks. The key looks like the kind that is used for luggage.

I say big BS.

paul0660
08-17-2009, 5:25 PM
It is fud. After a crime no one knows if it was locked up or not, and you can't really believe the criminal. However, you could become a defendant in a civil case, and juries are wacky. If you have a gun and don't have a safe, I think you are making a mistake.

Rekrab
08-17-2009, 5:28 PM
It IS a felony if you have an unlocked gun with children in the house though right?

Maybe it's some weird extrapolation of that?

paul0660
08-17-2009, 5:30 PM
I don't have time to look it up, but if you have a gun + ammo and a kid gets it and someone get hurts yes you are in trouble.

Easy to prevent.........and NOT by telling the kid not to, btw.

rrr70
08-17-2009, 5:34 PM
I don't have time to look it up, but if you have a gun + ammo and a kid gets it and someone get hurts yes you are in trouble.



Unless you are a cop.

Blacklist231
08-17-2009, 5:49 PM
you may be guilty of a felony if a child gains access to that firearm and thereby causes death or injury to any person unless the firearm was in a secure locked container or locked with a locking device that rendered it inoperable.

(PC Section 12035-12036)



...

neomentat
08-17-2009, 6:04 PM
...

yes I know the locked gun requirement with kids in the house. however, the turners guy specifically said "if your gun is not locked, stolen and then used in a crime" then you're guilty of a felony

HUTCH 7.62
08-17-2009, 6:24 PM
Another reason why we call this place Kommiefornia. Personally I'm gonna rape this state for all its money and move to a free state.

dfletcher
08-17-2009, 7:00 PM
As I understand it, the Children’s Firearm Accident Prevention Act of 1991 states that a person who keeps a loaded firearm where a child obtains and improperly uses it has violated CA law. I think it's interesting that the violation occurs not when you stuff that locked & cocked 1911 under the mattress, but rather when the kid picks it up and acidentally shoots the next door neighbor's cat. But as the law is written, it seems to me that if the same kid picks up the same gun under the same circumstances and correctly shoots a bad guy come to hurt him, no violation has occured.

Not saying that's the thing to do, but I do find the wording interesting - must be a specific reason for it I suppose.

Army
08-17-2009, 9:47 PM
No, the guy is full of FUD. There is NO legal requirement to keep firearms locked or inoperable 24/7.

strangerdude
08-17-2009, 9:49 PM
So I was at Turners today and the guy there was telling me that in California, if you don't lock your guns with a CA legal lock, and it subsequently gets stolen and is used in a crime, then you're guilty of a felony.

I have never heard of such a thing, is this more FUD being spread by Turners? Or is there some truth to this?

Tell me, when don't they spread fud? Turner's Is full of idiots.

RaceDay
08-17-2009, 9:56 PM
Unless you are a cop.

Yeah, then instead of going to jail, you get to file a lawsuit. :rolleyes:

trendar5
08-18-2009, 1:39 AM
Yeah, then instead of going to jail, you get to file a lawsuit. :rolleyes:

Can you two guys elaborate? Was there an incident in Southern California that I didn't hear about that makes you post this? Just curious....

rrr70
08-18-2009, 5:33 AM
Can you two guys elaborate? Was there an incident in Southern California that I didn't hear about that makes you post this? Just curious....
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/gun-lawsuit-alleges-2089579-chavez-shot
http://lapdblog.typepad.com/lapd_blog/2006/07/officer_enrique.html

B Strong
08-18-2009, 6:06 AM
So I was at Turners today and the guy there was telling me that in California, if you don't lock your guns with a CA legal lock, and it subsequently gets stolen and is used in a crime, then you're guilty of a felony.

I have never heard of such a thing, is this more FUD being spread by Turners? Or is there some truth to this?

Big FUD.

Someone could well face civil action if one of their pieces got loose, but it's no felony if the gun is stolen and used in a crime.

gn3hz3ku1*
08-18-2009, 8:28 AM
why do you listen to turners? just go to the westcov one.. talk to the manager there chris.. he wont spread FUD... if he can't sell you something, he wont tell you it's illegal when it is

Burnout
08-18-2009, 11:09 AM
...

Curious, does this apply if a couple of underage kids break into your house and steal guns among other things?

flatovercrest
08-18-2009, 11:15 AM
why do you listen to turners?

+1........

hoozaru
08-18-2009, 11:20 AM
turners employees are full of ****, but they are selling fixed mag Czech VZ AKs and .22 ARs now. I think that is some progress??

Rusty Shackleford
08-18-2009, 11:44 AM
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/gun-lawsuit-alleges-2089579-chavez-shot
http://lapdblog.typepad.com/lapd_blog/2006/07/officer_enrique.html


Wow....BS at its finest. I love how laws don't apply to police. If that was a regular citizen there would be charges filed.

kf6tac
08-18-2009, 12:43 PM
Curious, does this apply if a couple of underage kids break into your house and steal guns among other things?

NOT GIVING LEGAL ADVICE HERE

My understanding is that if underage kids steal your guns and use them to cause injury to themselves or others, you can get busted for criminal storage of a firearm, but only if you knew or reasonably should have known that the kids would have had access to the guns. Unless you're living in a house with no locks on the doors or something, I'd venture that generally it'd be hard to show that you knew or should have known that someone could and would break in.

Hayashi Killian
08-18-2009, 1:23 PM
It also helps if you call your local PD and report the guns as stolen as soon as you discover they've been stolen.

POLICESTATE
08-18-2009, 1:32 PM
Even if the law is changed to make it a felony for someone to steal your gun and use it in a crime if you don't lock it, just say you did lock it, obviously it's the bad guy's word against yours to say he stole the gun and it didn't have a lock on it.

stix213
08-18-2009, 1:36 PM
It IS a felony if you have an unlocked gun with children in the house though right?

Maybe it's some weird extrapolation of that?

It is a felony if you have a gun not locked up in a safe AND a child gets ahold of it and injures someone or worse. Even if you don't have any children.

Snake eyes
08-18-2009, 2:22 PM
Sounds like maybe the guy at Turners was trying to sell a few gun locks or a safe.

As far as being sued after guns are stolen and used in a crime, "Of course my guns were locked up, they were also in a safe. Damn crooks took the whole safe."

"That's my story your honor, the truth, the whole truth, and nothin but the truth.";)

MasterYong
08-18-2009, 3:51 PM
Wow-

It sounds like some of you guys think that all guns should be locked up at all times.

What's the use of a locked up gun?

Most of my guns are locked up, but two of them aren't. If I get robbed, sure, they'll probably get the two that aren't locked up, but hopefully they'll ignore the safe unless they're savvy.

I keep a Kimber by the bed and a Mossy 500A against a wall. I have a gun on me at nearly all times when I'm home. There are NO circumstances under which I would reasonably know that a child could gain access to my firearms. Unless some little brat breaks into my house, it's not gonna happen. Funny thing is, if someone does break into my home and tries to steal one of my guns they just nailed themselves if they get caught, as it's bad news to be in possession of a firearm while in the commission of a felony!

berto
08-18-2009, 5:03 PM
Curious, does this apply if a couple of underage kids break into your house and steal guns among other things?

No.

Mstnpete
08-18-2009, 5:45 PM
Another BS. from a know it all Turners employee!

xibunkrlilkidsx
08-18-2009, 5:53 PM
im going FUD. to the OP

Having an empty/locked up gun is like keeping an empty fire extinguisher in the house. ya it looks like it can help but when SHTF your screwed.

now what about this one that i heard from a customer we were helping over the phone, work as a locksmith/safe work. Cust was picking up an AR-15 Lower and the store they were buying it from would not release it unless they had a recipt that they had a CA DOJ approved safe and they needed a seriel number from the safe.

now i have been saked when ive bought my guns. "Do you have a DOJ Approved safe or locking device" to which the answere is always yes.

neomentat
08-18-2009, 9:39 PM
this same employee also said "H&K uses Kevlar in their polymer pistol frame which is way stronger than Glock's polymer frame".

The last time I checked Kevlar is a type of weave, how the hell can molded polymer be even considered Kevlar? Turners have some idiots for employees.

Samuel
08-19-2009, 5:33 AM
So I was at Turners today and the guy there was telling me that in California, if you don't lock your guns with a CA legal lock, and it subsequently gets stolen and is used in a crime, then you're guilty of a felony.
Not true. Stolen or lost firearm (locked or unlocked) requirements for Los Angeles:

Owners or possessors of firearms in Los Angeles must report the theft or loss of the firearm within 48 hours of becoming aware of the theft or loss, whenever:
1) the person resides in Los Angeles; or 2) the theft or loss of the firearm occurs in Los Angeles.

In any city, firearm loss should be reported as soon as possible to minimize exposure to civil actions.

The Penal Code that applies to child access to firearms:

CALIFRNIA PENAL CODE SECTION 12035. [Abridged]

As used in this section, the following definitions apply:
"Child" means a person under 18 years of age.


Except as provided in subdivision (c), a person commits the crime of "criminal storage of a firearm of the first degree" if he or she keeps any loaded firearm within any premises that are under his or her custody or control and he or she knows or reasonably should know that a child is likely to gain access to the firearm without the permission of the child's parent or legal guardian and
the child obtains access to the firearm and thereby causes death or great bodily injury to himself, herself, or any other person.

(2) Except as provided in subdivision (c), a person commits the crime of "criminal storage of a firearm of the second degree" if he or she keeps any loaded firearm within any premises that are under his or her custody or control and he or she knows or reasonably should know that a child is likely to gain access to the firearm without the permission of the child's parent or legal guardian and the child obtains access to the firearm and thereby causes injury, other than great bodily injury, to himself, herself, or any other person, or carries the firearm either to a public place or in violation of Section 417.


(c) Subdivision (b) shall not apply whenever any of the following occurs:

(1) The child obtains the firearm as a result of an illegal entry to any premises by any person. (2) The firearm is kept in a locked container or in a location that a reasonable person would believe to be secure.

(3) The firearm is carried on the person or within such a close proximity thereto that the individual can readily retrieve and use the firearm as if carried on the person.

(4) The firearm is locked with a locking device that has rendered the firearm inoperable.

(5) The person is a peace officer or a member of the armed forces or National Guard and the child obtains the firearm during, or incidental to, the performance of the person's duties.

(6) The child obtains, or obtains and discharges, the firearm in a lawful act of self-defense or defense of another person, or persons.

(7) The person who keeps a loaded firearm on any premise that is under his or her custody or control has no reasonable expectation, based on objective facts and circumstances, that a child is likely to be present on the premises.

(d) Criminal storage of a firearm is punishable as follows:
(1) Criminal storage of a firearm in the first degree, by imprisonment in the state prison for 16 months, or two or three years, by a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine; or by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.

(2) Criminal storage of a firearm in the second degree, by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
[Underline and italics added for emphasis.]

These are not automatic felonys.

The implied common sense law for gun owners is, do not allow children access to firearms. Locks are a state approved and required resource but it's up to us as individual gun owners to ensure the safety of others.

I would ask the employee to cite the CA penal code, CCR or WIC law section alluded to in his statement.

randy
08-19-2009, 6:00 AM
After reading the law I'd say the Turners employee was trying to look out for the customer. He might not have been 100% correct but his error would have saved the gun owner some grief.

Good for them.

I'm not telling you how to store your gun or how I keep mine that wasn't the OP's post.

HK's or at least some of them are fibar reinforced. If the fiber is Carbon or Kevlar I don't know. Carbon has more of a weave to it so Kevlar could quite possibly be the fiber. I don't know about how they build plastic guns but it would seem reasonable to me that they could lay some Kevlar fibers down and cover it with the latest and greatest plastic/polymer/space age stuff.

So the Turners employee is again is at least half right. No harm done.

BHPFan
08-19-2009, 10:55 AM
So I was at Turners today and the guy there was telling me that in California, if you don't lock your guns with a CA legal lock, and it subsequently gets stolen and is used in a crime, then you're guilty of a felony.

I have never heard of such a thing, is this more FUD being spread by Turners? Or is there some truth to this?


this same employee also said "H&K uses Kevlar in their polymer pistol frame which is way stronger than Glock's polymer frame".


The last time I checked Kevlar is a type of weave, how the hell can molded polymer be even considered Kevlar? Turners have some idiots for employees.

Considering the source (Turners), I am not surprised.

Rob454
08-19-2009, 5:19 PM
Dont worry dude. i was just looking at the prices on the rugers ( looking at a P345 for abotu 560$)they had and the salesman told me not to buy one cause he had one and when he dropped it the frame broke. I said Ok what woudl you buy? he of course wanted to sell me a Kimber 1911 for about 940$. I told him i had a ruger at home and its been great for the 16 years ive owned it. Some gun store employees make me laugh. Some are cool cats but you get the ones who start telling you what you shoudl buy and give you bla bla bla stories. i just sort of move on to another subject. I usually keep my mouth shut when i hear them talk about OLL and stuff

Samuel
08-20-2009, 9:10 AM
If you happen to lose the key to your trigger lock, here is very high tech but simple method to remove it.

Important note: This is for informational purposes only and is not intended to circumvent or otherwise bypass the original intent of the trigger lock.

http://www.engadget.com/videos/lockdown/gunlock-trigger-kid.flv

Hayashi Killian
08-20-2009, 11:31 AM
Jesus, a Remington, Club and Masterkey lock all getting popped off with a screwdriver. All the same way. Really shows you how good a trigger lock is, eh?

RobG
08-20-2009, 11:38 AM
Geez, next time I am in So Cal I have to stop by one of these comedy stores to experience it for myself:taz:

pullnshoot25
08-20-2009, 11:51 AM
Dont worry dude. i was just looking at the prices on the rugers ( looking at a P345 for abotu 560$)they had and the salesman told me not to buy one cause he had one and when he dropped it the frame broke. I said Ok what woudl you buy? he of course wanted to sell me a Kimber 1911 for about 940$. I told him i had a ruger at home and its been great for the 16 years ive owned it. Some gun store employees make me laugh. Some are cool cats but you get the ones who start telling you what you shoudl buy and give you bla bla bla stories. i just sort of move on to another subject. I usually keep my mouth shut when i hear them talk about OLL and stuff

I wish that someone would hire me to be a gun store employee. I am a "bread and butter" guns sort of guy and I generally dislike all the frilly crap. I also don't like stiffing customers, no matter if they are idiots or not.

PatriotnMore
08-20-2009, 12:02 PM
If you like minimum wage, I am sure Turner's will hire you.


I wish that someone would hire me to be a gun store employee. I am a "bread and butter" guns sort of guy and I generally dislike all the frilly crap. I also don't like stiffing customers, no matter if they are idiots or not.