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brassburnz
08-13-2009, 11:21 AM
Looking for an FFL close to Los Angeles who will DROS a CCR Raceframe for a
Glock. It seems the item isn't on the DOJ dropdown menu and needs to be
processed by hand. I've got one lined up, just can't find anyone to do the
transfer.

Thanks.

ke6guj
08-13-2009, 11:34 AM
what do you mean, "process by hand"? If you aren't roster-exempt, you can't DROS a handgun (even stripped pistol receiver) that isn't on the Roster, or is otherwise roster-exempt.

tenpercentfirearms
08-13-2009, 11:52 AM
Looking for an FFL close to Los Angeles who will DROS a CCR Raceframe for a
Glock. It seems the item isn't on the DOJ dropdown menu and needs to be
processed by hand. I've got one lined up, just can't find anyone to do the
transfer.

Thanks.

Are you law enforcement? If not, you can't DROS it unless it is exempt from the roster somehow (http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/). It doesn't sound like it is.

I do believe you are screwed. Sorry the law does apply to you too. LOL.

brassburnz
08-13-2009, 6:27 PM
It's a PPT. It's already in the state.

Hey Wes,

Aren't public school employees who have to deal with troubled youth the same as LEO's? :-)

ke6guj
08-13-2009, 6:47 PM
oh, thats different, you didn't mention it was a PPT, that changes it and, yes, the roster does not apply. Wes should be able to explain how to PPT DROS a non-rostered handgun.

My question is, how do you comply with the "safe handling demonstation" on a stripped frame?

12071.(b)(8)(D) Commencing January 1, 2003, except as authorized by the department, no firearms dealer may deliver a handgun unless the recipient performs a safe handling demonstration with that handgun. The demonstration shall commence with the handgun unloaded and locked with the firearm safety device with which it is required to be delivered, if applicable. While maintaining muzzle awareness, that is, the firearm is pointed in a safe direction, preferably down at the ground, and trigger discipline, that is, the trigger finger is outside of the trigger guard and along side of the handgun frame, at all times, the handgun recipient shall correctly and safely perform the following:
(i) If the handgun is a semiautomatic pistol:
(I) Remove the magazine.
(II) Lock the slide back. If the model of firearm does not allow the slide to be locked back, pull the slide back, visually and physically check the chamber to ensure that it is clear.
(III) Visually and physically inspect the chamber, to ensure that the handgun is unloaded.
(IV) Remove the firearm safety device, if applicable. If the firearm safety device prevents any of the previous steps, remove the firearm safety device during the appropriate step.
(V) Load one bright orange, red, or other readily identifiable dummy round into the magazine. If no readily identifiable dummy round is available, an empty cartridge casing with an empty primer pocket may be used.
(VI) Insert the magazine into the magazine well of the firearm.
(VII) Manipulate the slide release or pull back and release the slide.
(VIII) Remove the magazine.
(IX) Visually inspect the chamber to reveal that a round can be chambered with the magazine removed.
(X) Lock the slide back to eject the bright orange, red, or other readily identifiable dummy round. If the handgun is of a model that does not allow the slide to be locked back, pull the slide back and physically check the chamber to ensure that the chamber is clear. If no readily identifiable dummy round is available, an empty cartridge casing with an empty primer pocket may be used.
(XI) Apply the safety, if applicable.
(XII) Apply the firearm safety device, if applicable. This requirement shall not apply to an Olympic competition pistol if no firearms safety device, other than a cable lock that the department has determined would damage the barrel of the pistol, has been approved for the pistol, and the pistol is either listed in paragraph (2) of subdivision (h) of Section 12132 or is subject to paragraph (3) of subdivision (h) of Section 12132.
(ii) If the handgun is a double-action revolver:
(I) Open the cylinder.
(II) Visually and physically inspect each chamber, to ensure that the revolver is unloaded.
(III) Remove the firearm safety device. If the firearm safety device prevents any of the previous steps, remove the firearm safety device during the appropriate step.
(IV) While maintaining muzzle awareness and trigger discipline, load one bright orange, red, or other readily identifiable dummy round into a chamber of the cylinder and rotate the cylinder so that the round is in the next-to-fire position. If no readily identifiable dummy round is available, an empty cartridge casing with an empty primer pocket may be used.
(V) Close the cylinder.
(VI) Open the cylinder and eject the round.
(VII) Visually and physically inspect each chamber to ensure that the revolver is unloaded.
(VIII) Apply the firearm safety device, if applicable. This requirement shall not apply to an Olympic competition pistol if no firearms safety device, other than a cable lock that the department has determined would damage the barrel of the pistol, has been approved for the pistol, and the pistol is either listed in paragraph (2) of subdivision (h) of Section 12132 or is subject to paragraph (3) of subdivision (h) of Section 12132.
(iii) If the handgun is a single-action revolver:
(I) Open the loading gate.
(II) Visually and physically inspect each chamber, to ensure that the revolver is unloaded.
(III) Remove the firearm safety device required to be sold with the handgun. If the firearm safety device prevents any of the previous steps, remove the firearm safety device during the appropriate step.
(IV) Load one bright orange, red, or other readily identifiable dummy round into a chamber of the cylinder, close the loading gate and rotate the cylinder so that the round is in the next-to-fire position. If no readily identifiable dummy round is available, an empty cartridge casing with an empty primer pocket may be used.
(V) Open the loading gate and unload the revolver.
(VI) Visually and physically inspect each chamber to ensure that the revolver is unloaded.
(VII) Apply the firearm safety device, if applicable. This requirement shall not apply to an Olympic competition pistol if no firearms safety device, other than a cable lock that the department has determined would damage the barrel of the pistol, has been approved for the pistol, and the pistol is either listed in paragraph (2) of subdivision (h) of Section 12132 or is subject to paragraph (3) of subdivision (h) of Section 12132.
(E) The recipient shall receive instruction regarding how to render that handgun safe in the event of a jam.
(F) The firearms dealer shall sign and date an affidavit stating that the requirements of subparagraph (D) have been met. The firearms dealer shall additionally obtain the signature of the handgun purchaser on the same affidavit. The firearms dealer shall retain the original affidavit as proof of compliance with this requirement.
(G) The recipient shall perform the safe handling demonstration for a department certified instructor.
(H) No demonstration shall be required if the dealer is returning the handgun to the owner of the handgun.
(I) Department certified instructors who may administer the safe handling demonstration shall meet the requirements set forth in subdivision (j) of Section 12804.
(J) The persons who are exempt from the requirements of subdivision (b) of Section 12801, pursuant to Section 12807, are also exempt from performing the safe handling demonstration.


I am not aware of a PPT exemption to the handling demo.

tenpercentfirearms
08-14-2009, 5:10 AM
Good point, unless you are HSC exempt, you are going to have to perform the HSC. Bring your slide with you or if possible just assemble the gun and make it easier for the FFL not to say no.

It is a PPT. I can't log into DROS right now (not until 7 AM), but there shouldn't even be a safe list on the PPT screen. If someone told you there was, they just didn't want to do a PPT.

eltee
08-14-2009, 9:43 AM
There is a drop down list on the DROS site to process a handgun for a PPT, but it is all (probably) inclusive, not the "roster" list. I also seem to recall that you could do "other" or something like that for those rare, odd, unlisted firearms.

brassburnz
08-14-2009, 12:51 PM
Good point, unless you are HSC exempt, you are going to have to perform the HSC. Bring your slide with you or if possible just assemble the gun and make it easier for the FFL not to say no.

It is a PPT. I can't log into DROS right now (not until 7 AM), but there shouldn't even be a safe list on the PPT screen. If someone told you there was, they just didn't want to do a PPT.

Wes,
Bringing the slide is a great idea. The frame has all the internals, so I guess I could bring the Glock slide and perform the safety test.

ke6guj,
I've PPT'ed three 1911 frames in the last couple of years. A Caspian, Remsport, and RIA. When it came time to perform the safety test, I was given a different 1911.

I don't see why processing the raceframe would be any different from processing the 1911 frames. But then again, who knows what DOJ is thinking.

Thanks for the replies.

ke6guj
08-14-2009, 1:04 PM
ke6guj,
I've PPT'ed three 1911 frames in the last couple of years. A Caspian, Remsport, and RIA. When it came time to perform the safety test, I was given a different 1911.

I don't see why processing the raceframe would be any different from processing the 1911 frames. But then again, who knows what DOJ is thinking.

Thanks for the replies.

Well, if your FFL will allow it, then cool. But, I've heard of FFL's not allowing for a different handgun being used for the demo since the PC does say "with that handgun" and does not mention the use of a similar handgun.

12071.(b)(8)(D) Commencing January 1, 2003, except as authorized by the department, no firearms dealer may deliver a handgun unless the recipient performs a safe handling demonstration with that handgun.

eltee
08-14-2009, 1:20 PM
The Safe Handling Demo Affidavit (DOJ form # FD 039) states, " ... demonstration as required pursuant to Sec. 12071(b)(8)(D)PC, with the handgun (or one of the same make and model) referenced on the Dealer Record of Sale." (emphasis added)

ke6guj
08-14-2009, 1:24 PM
I thought I had seen language to that effect somewhere, but could not find it. But per the affidavit, it looks like it would would need to be another CCR handgun, not a Glock, I'd assume. Could make it difficult to PPT DROS any off-list rare stripped handgun receiver.

brassburnz
08-14-2009, 5:12 PM
I thought I had seen language to that effect somewhere, but could not find it. But per the affidavit, it looks like it would would need to be another CCR handgun, not a Glock, I'd assume. Could make it difficult to PPT DROS any off-list rare stripped handgun receiver.

I searched Calguns for CCR raceframes, and it appears that several have been sold on the boards. That's why I posted my request in this thread, hoping one of them would chime in.

The CCR I'm trying to dros is a complete frame. I'd just need to add a slide and the corresponding mag to do the safe handling demo. If I can't get it transferred, maybe I can ask the Calguns Foundation to help me bring suit against the DOJ and the AG's office! :sleeping:

Quiet
08-14-2009, 5:40 PM
If I can't get it transferred, maybe I can ask the Calguns Foundation to help me bring suit against the DOJ and the AG's office! :sleeping:

Calguns Foundation lawsuit already filed to challenge the approved list. (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=179227)

AFAIK...
Safe handling demonstration are only for handguns.
Longs guns and frames/recievers ("other" firearms) do not require a safe handling demonstration.