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View Full Version : SU-16CA versus 2005 Mini-14 versus a sharp stick...which would you rely upon?


TonyNorCal
05-28-2005, 2:34 PM
Let's say you had to go to a shootout in half an hour. Typical SHTF scenario. You're going to have to engage your opponent at distances of point blank to 200 yards. Your choices are an SU-16CA or a 2005 version Mini-14. No modifications to either weapon are allowed. It goes straight from the box to battle. You get multuple factory mags. You'll likely have to engage multiple targets (so your barrel is gonna get nice n hot) and your ammo is a mix of cheap commercial and military surplus. Notice a Fal or AR aren't options, but a sharp stick is http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

C.G.
05-28-2005, 4:17 PM
Your choices are an SU-16CA or a 2005 version Mini-14. No modifications to either weapon are allowed.
I was never impressed with accuracy of the Mini 14, eventhough I did not shoot the 2005 model; so, I would pick the SU over the Mini. Oh, wait a minute, I did that, albeit the SU-16A! http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

dwtt
05-28-2005, 6:46 PM
Originally posted by Tony:
Let's say you had to go to a shootout in half an hour. Typical SHTF scenario. You're going to have to engage your opponent at distances of point blank to 200 yards. Your choices are an SU-16CA or a 2005 version Mini-14. No modifications to either weapon are allowed. It goes straight from the box to battle. You get multuple factory mags. You'll likely have to engage multiple targets (so your barrel is gonna get nice n hot) and your ammo is a mix of cheap commercial and military surplus. Notice a Fal or AR aren't options, but a sharp stick is http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

It sound like you want to compete in 3-gun but are afraid to admit it. In the free states, 3-gun matches see mostly AR-15's, but you'll also find some AK-47 and Robinson M96. You won't see mini-14 or Su-16's at the matches. Since you're in California, you might want to try the M-96, even though it feels strange to shoot it without a pistol grip.

1919_4_ME
05-28-2005, 7:06 PM
In a SHTF scenario I would take the Mini-14 in a heartbeat!The rifles are reliable enough to get your first enemies AK. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

toolman9000
05-28-2005, 8:04 PM
I 2nd the Mini-14, I just have a special place in my heat for that rifle... and it can go miles and miles before a cleaning.

The mini-14 is tested the SU-16 is a new kid that needs to earn it's stripes.

shooterx10
05-28-2005, 10:32 PM
If you guys want some REAL firepower against JBTs or thugs in general, get the Browning BAR 1918A3 SLR by Ohio Ordnance Works.

http://www.ohioordnanceworks.com/slr/slr_s.jpg

You guys didn't see that torture test of the SU-16? Here is the link: http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeonrw7/

I did read on the KTRange forum that if there is a situation where you have a FTF or FTE, and you are a right handed shooter, you'll either have to:

a. turn the gun over to the left 90 degrees and clear the jam by racking the bolt with the left hand and return back to shooting position
b. take the shooting hand off of the grip, hold the gun by the forearm with the left hand, rack the gun with the shooting hand and return back to position

Same applies with the Mini-14.

However, with the AR-15, the charge handle can be cycled with the left hand.

You can't go wrong with either rifle, but if you want to trick out your gun, the Mini-14 has the winning hand (at least for now).

http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/img/order_37.jpg

One of Accuracy Systems Inc's Mini-14s.

Stevil
05-28-2005, 11:27 PM
The SU-16CA, no competition... unless (as you didn't say) the "enemy" is unarmed, then a think I'd have me some fun with the big sharp stick! http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

CraigC
05-29-2005, 1:57 AM
I'd take the 16... always the possibility of picking up AR mags that can be used right away.



But in the reliability department, it's hard to beat the sharp stick.

C.G.
05-29-2005, 2:02 AM
But in the reliability department, it's hard to beat the sharp stick.
Or a blunt object to be used as a club, in which case I might consider the Mini over the SU-16. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

esskay
05-29-2005, 3:49 AM
Originally posted by CraigC:
I'd take the 16... always the possibility of picking up AR mags that can be used right away.



But in the reliability department, it's hard to beat the sharp stick.

I was thinking the same thing... about the SU16 and the sharp stick.

MaceWindu
05-29-2005, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by shooterx10:
If you guys want some REAL firepower against JBTs or thugs in general, get the Browning BAR 1918A3 SLR by Ohio Ordnance Works.

http://www.ohioordnanceworks.com/slr/slr_s.jpg

You guys didn't see that torture test of the SU-16? Here is the link: http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeonrw7/

I did read on the KTRange forum that if there is a situation where you have a FTF or FTE, and you are a right handed shooter, you'll either have to:

a. turn the gun over to the left 90 degrees and clear the jam by racking the bolt with the left hand and return back to shooting position
b. take the shooting hand off of the grip, hold the gun by the forearm with the left hand, rack the gun with the shooting hand and return back to position

Same applies with the Mini-14.

However, with the AR-15, the charge handle can be cycled with the left hand.

You can't go wrong with either rifle, but if you want to trick out your gun, the Mini-14 has the winning hand (at least for now).

http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/img/order_37.jpg

One of Accuracy Systems Inc's Mini-14s.

I kinda like the Accuracy Systems toys myself http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v188/Triggerman/ASI4001.bmp

They are VERY accurate....

MaceWindu

ivanimal
05-29-2005, 10:07 AM
I have been shooting the Mini 14 for so long it pains me to say. I dont like plastic sights on the SU. I may someday own an SU-16, so I wont knock it, who knows. I just like the Mini they are great rifles.

HeHateMe
05-29-2005, 11:12 AM
I have both a mini-14 and Su16CA. I'd take the SU16CA. Out of the box I've found my SU to be more accurate than my mini. I've never had any failures of any kind with either rifle.

bu-bye
05-29-2005, 8:31 PM
SU-16ca all the way. Every mini I have shot has been a rock chucker and you can't trust the hi cap mags. My SU has proven to fire when ever and what every I put in it with a group size of 1.1 inch at 100 yards.

MaceWindu
05-29-2005, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by bu-bye:
SU-16ca all the way. Every mini I have shot has been a rock chucker and you can't trust the hi cap mags. My SU has proven to fire when ever and what every I put in it with a group size of 1.1 inch at 100 yards.

Uhhhhhhhh...I would like to see the groups posted of an SU-16 that shoots CLOSE to 1 MOA groups....sorry, raising the bull patty flag on that one.... http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

MaceWindu

bu-bye
05-29-2005, 11:15 PM
No problem what so ever http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I'll take pics next weekend

get ready to burn that BS flag http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sharnhorst
05-30-2005, 11:23 AM
Put me down for the mini, i have never shot the 16, but have handled a few....im sorry looks and feels like it should have the http://www.mattel.com/images/nav/nav_logo_.gif toy company logo on it. the mini might not get you between the eyes at a 100 yards but it will get a head shot. i have put over 500 rounds of old style wolf in my mini without cleaning and only had one FTF. thats good enough for me. besides the mini can kill in three ways.. the mini is a very solid rifle, you can either bash there skull in with the buttstock, shoot them with the bullets, or my favorite, take there head off with the ejecting shells http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. IMHO i think people put way to much into the the MOA thing.

LongBch_SigP226
05-30-2005, 3:01 PM
That BAR is too expensive. You can buy M1A for about half the price.

Stevil
05-30-2005, 11:48 PM
Strangly enough MATTEL did make a M-16 in the 60's! SO you can get a replica firearm with MATTEL stamped on the receiver! http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

CaliTheKid
06-18-2005, 2:36 PM
I was in a similar quandry and didn't like either choice and wound up buying a SOCOM-16 instead. I pick it up in a week. Can't wait. =)

TonyNorCal
06-18-2005, 3:14 PM
Originally posted by bu-bye:
SU-16ca all the way. Every mini I have shot has been a rock chucker and you can't trust the hi cap mags. My SU has proven to fire when ever and what every I put in it with a group size of 1.1 inch at 100 yards.

Uhhhhhhhh...I would like to see the groups posted of an SU-16 that shoots CLOSE to 1 MOA groups....sorry, raising the bull patty flag on that one.... http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

MaceWindu[/QUOTE]
Originally posted by bu-bye:
No problem what so ever http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I'll take pics next weekend

get ready to burn that BS flag http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Did you ever get those pics?

MaceWindu
06-18-2005, 5:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by bu-bye:
No problem what so ever

I'll take pics next weekend

get ready to burn that BS flag


Did you ever get those pics

HA! Of course not! Are you kidding? SU-16 shooting sub MOA groups.....puuuhhhlllleeeeaze.. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

MaceWindu (An SU-16 is NOT a bolt gun)

bu-bye
06-18-2005, 7:30 PM
Originally posted by Tony:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bu-bye:
SU-16ca all the way. Every mini I have shot has been a rock chucker and you can't trust the hi cap mags. My SU has proven to fire when ever and what every I put in it with a group size of 1.1 inch at 100 yards.

Uhhhhhhhh...I would like to see the groups posted of an SU-16 that shoots CLOSE to 1 MOA groups....sorry, raising the bull patty flag on that one.... http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

MaceWindu </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Originally posted by bu-bye:
No problem what so ever http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I'll take pics next weekend

get ready to burn that BS flag http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Did you ever get those pics?[/QUOTE]


HA! Of course not! Are you kidding? SU-16 shooting sub MOA groups.....puuuhhhlllleeeeaze.. Roll Eyes

MaceWindu (An SU-16 is NOT a bolt gun)

Check out the pic in my new thred? http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.calguns.net/marines.gif

CaliTheKid
06-26-2005, 6:55 PM
I was very impressed with an SU-16A that I shot today. My friend has one that he put an after-market front post sight on and we took it out to Angeles Range today. We consistantly hit gongs at 200, 300, 400 and even 500 yards using nothing more than the iron sights. Prior to getting the new sight, it had the factory one which was terrible. I have to say, nice rifle. Didn't jame once.

MaceWindu
06-26-2005, 7:12 PM
MaceWindu (An SU-16 is NOT a bolt gun)

Check out the pic in my new thred?

http://www.calguns.net/bow.gif

MaceWindu

C.G.
06-26-2005, 9:53 PM
Originally posted by CaliTheKid:
I was very impressed with an SU-16A that I shot today. My friend has one that he put an after-market front post sight on and we took it out to Angeles Range today. We consistantly hit gongs at 200, 300, 400 and even 500 yards using nothing more than the iron sights. Prior to getting the new sight, it had the factory one which was terrible. I have to say, nice rifle. Didn't jame once.

Which aftemarket sight? I need to do that, but haven't got around to it.

CaliTheKid
06-26-2005, 11:54 PM
The Bravo sights that can be bought directly from Kel-Tec.

http://www.kel-tec.com/su-16_accessories.htm

C.G.
06-27-2005, 1:07 AM
Originally posted by CaliTheKid:
The Bravo sights that can be bought directly from Kel-Tec.

http://www.kel-tec.com/su-16_accessories.htm
Yeah, I am not too thrilled about those either, I was hoping someone figured out something better. Thanks anyway.

CaliTheKid
06-27-2005, 9:23 AM
No problem. But, for what it's worth, they really worked well.

C.G.
06-27-2005, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by CaliTheKid:
No problem. But, for what it's worth, they really worked well.
I might end up with those, but thought about modifying AR-15 stuff.

Stevil
06-27-2005, 5:11 PM
Modifying AR stuff is a real PITA, get the Bravo sight's... they work well and accept most AR front posts.

C.G.
06-27-2005, 6:00 PM
Originally posted by Stevil:
Modifying AR stuff is a real PITA, get the Bravo sight's... they work well and accept most AR front posts.
Actually I was thinking of using a picatinny three rail block with picatinny detachable sight; I then could use it on my Grendel and Beowulf as a back up sight.

m98
07-02-2005, 4:13 AM
mini gets my take! the s16's got too much plastic and feels like a toy. while I was at a show a few months ago I had the chance to check it out a little bit. the first thing my little brother said was "how much is it for this toy?"
another thing is that it also doesn't have a solid feel to it-not even close to my ar. but in a shft situation I honestly think that the mini would out do the s16. maybe the accuracy isn't so great compared to the s16 (pencil barrel)but you can bet it'll go bang everytime the trigger is pulled. and remember that the mini is also wayy more accurate than the ak rifles. also the bolt/gas system design on the su16 is "only" similar to the AR so that doesn't mean that it'll be able to keep up with the ar itself and the ar itself isn't as reliable as the garand type that mini's are built around with.

it all comes down to:

su16- it's new&unproven-somewhat better accuracy than that of a stock mini. it's mostly made of plastic so long term rapid fire would definitely make to shooter to drop the rifle because it'll get too hot to handle. I don't really think that the s16 would pass the endurance/abuse test since probably the first thing to break off would be the sights, then the folding forearm. and then the stock..if I remember correctly the stock is a piece by itself so it's not very strong

mini-it's proven-will eat of any kind of ammo that it's fed with(as long as the casing is still in good shape and not battered up)--accuracy not as good as s16 but nothing to worry about in a shft situation or battle ground accuracy. it's also a solid rifle and can be dragged/abused all over

Stevil
07-02-2005, 11:09 AM
Erm, okay so firstly I'm not an SU apologist I ACTUALLY OWN BOTH but you may want to qualify your oddly drawn assertions after you've ACTUALLY used one, it's made of Zytel and NOT plastic. Yes it's not as solid as an AR but then again an AR isn't as solid as say a concrete anchor, as for SHTF situation "you think" the Mini may do better... well that's hardly based on a qualified evaluation is it?

it's mostly made of plastic so long term rapid fire would definitely make to shooter to drop the rifle because it'll get too hot to handle.
Bwa hah hah ha ha... dude are you serious?

I don't really think that the s16 would pass the endurance/abuse test since probably the first thing to break off would be the sights, then the folding forearm. and then the stock..if I remember correctly the stock is a piece by itself so it's not very strong
Really? Hmm... maybe you're confusing it with something from your extensive Airsoft collection.
Thanks for your eminently qualified and "field-tested" opinion and welcome to CalGUNS, do you know 44Canon in Roseville by-the-way? http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Mr331
07-02-2005, 6:30 PM
Cheap toy, plastic toy, made by Mattel...........where have I seen this before.....hhmmm. Oh, it was how the Marines decribed the M-16 when it hit the field. The Mini and SU-16 are pretty damn close. I'm not sure how anyone could say one is a POS compared to the other.

Sharnhorst
07-03-2005, 12:13 PM
The Mini and SU-16 are pretty damn close.
http://www.calguns.net/laughroll.gif

Mr331
07-03-2005, 9:45 PM
Originally posted by Sharnhorst:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The Mini and SU-16 are pretty damn close.
http://www.calguns.net/laughroll.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Care to elaborate? I shot both today. The groups look pretty damn close. Neither was a "hands down" winner. Are we comparing performance or how it "feels" in your hands?

Sharnhorst
07-04-2005, 8:11 AM
I guess i should have had you elaborate. The groups look pretty damn close

That might be true, but the rifles them selfs are even close. And im not saying that the SU16 is a POS, it is a very cool design. But the mini is made with much better materials.