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View Full Version : Su 16ca, Mini 14, lever gun ?


Equalizer
05-03-2005, 6:49 AM
I finally decided that the Socom I fell in lust with exceeded my budget so here's my problem.
Mini 14, the reports I read go from it's a tackdriver to six inch groups at 100 yds.
Su16ca, looks like a toy, does it shoot, how's accuracy, reliability etc. ?
Lever gun, I just threw this one in because I can pick one up used for $250.00 or so and if it meet the accuracy of the others it may be the one. I would appreciate any advice.
Bill

Equalizer
05-03-2005, 6:49 AM
I finally decided that the Socom I fell in lust with exceeded my budget so here's my problem.
Mini 14, the reports I read go from it's a tackdriver to six inch groups at 100 yds.
Su16ca, looks like a toy, does it shoot, how's accuracy, reliability etc. ?
Lever gun, I just threw this one in because I can pick one up used for $250.00 or so and if it meet the accuracy of the others it may be the one. I would appreciate any advice.
Bill

bwiese
05-03-2005, 8:13 AM
Nothing wrong with a lever gun!

Lever guns in pistol calibers are primarily for shorter ranges. You'll need a lever action chambered in some kinda rifle round to get the reach an AR, etc. has.

Winchester/Marlin lever guns (except Brownings w/magazines) also require round-nose/blunt tip ammo so nose of ammo doesn't hit primer of following round while in ammo tube on rifle.
Common lever rifle calibers are 30-30 and 45/70.

Mini14s are supposed to be improving - Ruger is making their own barrels now apparently.

But some Minis have 'broadside of a barn' reputation. They're nowhere near even a std base model AR15 in accuracy due to bolt design, barrel and trigger.

I'm not a fan of the SU16 but given this is CA, it may be your only real choice in 223.

But you might also consider the upcoming Remington 7615 pump-action 223 rifle. It's designed to accept AR15 magazines (hicap or 10rd). It'll likely be more accurate/higher-quality than Mini14 or SU16.

I saw/handled one at the SHOT Show in Vegas at end of Jan. Should be 'in the pipeline' now. It's sold thru Remington law enforcement channels like their PSS bolt guns, and not out of the sporting channel. So not every gun shop will have access but some will - and this is allowed by Remington to be sold to ordinary folks.

Look in here... http://www.remingtonle.com

Bill Wiese
San Jose

trempel_ry@yahoo.com
05-03-2005, 8:28 AM
Depends on what you want, really.
Mini-14 - Advantages: proven design, very reliable, perfect for people that don't like plastic. Disadvantages: very expensive for what it is, comes with only 5-round mags, aftermarket 10-rounders suck ***, accuracy is often lacking (although with more $ that can be rectified).
SU-16 - Advantages: Cheaper than mini-14, takes m-16 mags, if you don't have preban 30-rounders, good ten rounders are easy to find, light weight, new variations with rails and better sights, decent accuracy.
Disadvantages: feels less sturdy than the mini-14, stupid useless bipod, variations with better features are more expensive, although pretty reliable will jam more that the mini and clearing the jam is usually a bigger pain in the ***.
Lever gun - Advantages: the cool factor, price, reliability, more powerfull caliber (unless you get the .357 version), light weight, easy handling, doesn't look as evil to other non-gun people.
Disadvantages: less capacity (if that really matters to you), slower reloads, not evil enough.

Basically, just get yourself a CA-approved Yugo SKS along with another one as a spare and be done with it. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

toolman9000
05-03-2005, 8:50 AM
The 2005 mini-14 is far superior to all the other years... heavier barrel improved sights and beefer comfortable stock. I fell in love with the new model at the SHOT show and I will end up buying one to go with my pre-ban mini-14 just because it is so much cooler.

Leverguns, you can't beat a Marlin - their QC is much better than Winchester... I am only speaking of 2004-2005 guns.

I agree with Trempel, for a kick in the butt plinker don't rule out an SKS - (Yugo 59 $180, Albanian $250-350, Romanian $200-250, Russian $275-400, East German $400+, Chinese $300-500, North Vietnamese $750+) super cheap to feed and fun to shoot; Everyone should have one or two just because. I really feel for the craftsmanship of them they are undervalued in todays marketplace.


-toolman9000

dave3006
05-03-2005, 9:29 AM
Here is what I have done to turn the Mini-14 into a decent fighting carbine. I also have M1 Garands if I need more punch.

1. Shorten barrel to 16" - eliminates POI shift as gun gets hot. Makes groups a realistic 2-3 MOA. Makes the gun more manageble in tight quarters. The choate flash hider has been permanently welded/modified so that the exit is slightly larger than .223. This makes it a muzzlebrake.

2. Ultimak rail - allows you to cowitness the iron sights with Aimpoint. Good for stiffening barrel. Amega ranges is too high to cowitness.

3. Aimpoint CompML2 - Excellent for low light shooting. Faster than iron sights.

4. XS rear sight - better than factory original.

5. Mags - PMI or factory. Not one malfunction in last 5000 rounds with cheap wolf ammo.

6. Trigger job - the trigger can be made decent for about $25.

I also have a Yugo SKS. I like the Yugo. But, for a SHTF situation, I would much rather have the Mini. It loads easier, higher capacity, better trigger, better sights, and smaller.

That's it. If I lived in a free state, I would buy an AR-15 too. With these mods, the Mini is good gun.

Here is a picture posted on another board

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=136788&page=1

shooterx10
05-03-2005, 10:03 AM
Is the barrel of the 2005 Ruger Mini-14 as heavy barreled as the one offered by Accuracy Systems Inc?

http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/img/k001b.jpg

I have never seen a Open Division Mini-14 for USPSA 3-gun, until I saw this:

http://www.angelfire.com/ut/colt38/2gun42.jpg

trempel_ry@yahoo.com
05-03-2005, 10:20 AM
How much are the new Minis? I like the action on the Mini and for the right price, I'd pick one up in a heartbeat. Do the improvements to the Mini line also apply to the mini-30. It would be nice to have a carbine with detachable mags that takes the same ammo as my SKS.

TonyNorCal
05-03-2005, 9:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by toolman9000:
The 2005 mini-14 is far superior to all the other years... heavier barrel improved sights and beefer comfortable stock. I fell in love with the new model at the SHOT show and I will end up buying one to go with my pre-ban mini-14 just because it is so much cooler.

Leverguns, you can't beat a Marlin - their QC is much better than Winchester... I am only speaking of 2004-2005 guns.

I agree with Trempel, for a kick in the butt plinker don't rule out an SKS - (Yugo 59 $180, Albanian $250-350, Romanian $200-250, Russian $275-400, East German $400+, Chinese $300-500, North Vietnamese $750+) super cheap to feed and fun to shoot; Everyone should have one or two just because. I really feel for the craftsmanship of them they are undervalued in todays marketplace.


-toolman9000 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Are you sure the new mini has a thicker barrel? From what I've heard there's no difference.

Also, where can you get an East German SKS for $400? Where can you get one period?

bu-bye
05-03-2005, 10:03 PM
I don't know, I have heard things about Ruger's role in the Cali AW ban and wouldn't want to give my money to them. I had a chance to hold a 05 mini and an older mini at my local shop last week and the barrel did not look any thicker. The new front sight was nice improvement for sure but nothing else cought my eye. I'll have to look again.

I've had my eye on a few level actions for years. I would love to see a lever in 308. Its the round nose only thing that keeps me from dropping the cash and I don't want a pistol round. Round nose rifle bullets just seem to cowboy'ish for me.

s281c
05-04-2005, 6:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bu-bye:

I've had my eye on a few level actions for years. I would love to see a lever in 308. Its the round nose only thing that keeps me from dropping the cash and I don't want a pistol round. Round nose rifle bullets just seem to cowboy'ish for me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

what about the Browning BLR? not a traditional lever action in the sense that it does not have a tube magazine, but it is available in .308......among other calibers.

leswift
05-04-2005, 7:11 AM
Jonathan Arther Ciener has a .22lr Conversion unit for the Mini-14. That makes it far superior to any lever or bolt action for use as a survival gun. No .22 rifle handles like a real fighting rifle. The .22 conversion handles exactly like your fighting rifle. Small game, deer, livestock, dogs and cats will be the main fare if shtf. So the 223-22lr combo fills the bill nicely, while offering maximum mobility discreteness, and ammo resupply likelihood. Personally, I'd stash a (finished) 80% AR lower someplace just across the CA border, and have a FAB-variant of the AR-15, but the Mini is ok.

toolman9000
05-04-2005, 7:40 AM
The last time I saw a German SKS it was a couple years ago at auction, that's why I put the + after the 400, I probably have no idea what they are worth in today's marketplace.

I swear the barrel is beefer on the new Mini, maybe I just want it to be... Ill call up Ruger and pick their brain. I have seen the new model go for $600-650... suggested dealer cost is $613, and MSRP is $850. But like all the firearm companies, the more you buy the better pricing you get.

Being against Ruger because of their politics is trite, that is like still being mad at S&W because of the internal locks - they both make one heck of a product. I do understand where you are coming from, I do not give Walmart any of my money, ever - Walmart is bad news all around.

I have been looking at that .22 conversion for the Mini in every Shotgun News for the past year, so it really works that good? How fast can you convert the rifle over?


-toolman9000

ivanimal
05-04-2005, 8:45 AM
If you want a tried and true lever gun in pointed bullet capability with better than decent accuracy try the Savage model 99 http://www.kimdutoit.com/ee/images/uploads/Savage99-308.jpg

It is a rotary magazine rifle and I love them. Also look into the Winchester model 88 or the semi auto model 100

http://www.mpistocks.com/images/model88.jpg


both these guns of superior quality with detachable magazines, and you can still find one if you look, or ask around at gun stores. These are desireable but not collectable so thier prices stay pretty steady. I own a model 99 and a model 100 in 308 and love them. Big Mac has a lot of winchester model 94's if you want the venerable classic. Then you are back to flat nosed bullets.

delloro
05-04-2005, 8:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by toolman9000:
Being against Ruger because of their politics is trite,... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Trite? How very amnesiac of you. Ruger gave us the 10-rd. mag and refuses to sell hicaps to citizens. However, bill ruger (*ptui*) spends $1M at the NRA to purchase a legacy and you buy it? you have a very short attention span.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...that is like still being mad at S&W because of the internal locks - they both make one heck of a product. toolman9000 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uhhhh, no. S&W said they were wrong and said they were sorry and has once again resumed the righteous path. ruger (*ptui*) has not. to Hell with them and their boat anchor pistols and their inaccurate mini. it is too bad that their rifles are so pretty, but *I* will not forget. I will forgive when they sincerely ask, but until then, to Hell with them.

shooterx10
05-04-2005, 10:01 AM
If I can recall, didn't Bill Ruger endorse the Klintonista Crime Bill of 1994? Or did he just endorse the 10+ round magazine ban?

Politics aside, the Mini-14 in a SHTF scenario (anarchy, JBTs, or thugs in general) with a mounted red dot sight will do fine. But then again, you're aren't sniping at them, just take the enemy out or protect yourself with cover fire. Most factory Mini-14 standard mags in the Free States are hard to come by without paying a lot for them. From personal experience, the aftermarket mags are hit and miss.

However, with the SU-16 variants, they can take the standard AR-15 mags, or in our case, the 10 rounders which can be found at reasonable prices in this Commie State. The flimsy and useless bipod can be replaced with an accessory rail forearm so you can mount a weapon light or laser. Also, the top rail can be mounted with a red dot or short range variable powered scope (1.5 or 2 power).

So, either way, you can't go wrong. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

However, if someone made a CA-legal AR-like receiver without a pistol but can accept detachable mags and standard AR-uppers..... http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

toolman9000
05-04-2005, 10:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by delloro:


Trite? How very amnesiac of you. Ruger gave us the 10-rd. mag and refuses to sell hicaps to citizens. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Smart Business. I know the history, I have not forgotten... but if I was in Ruger's shoes, I would of done the same thing.

Stevil
05-05-2005, 1:53 AM
SU-16 is a fine weapon (and the new CA model a great improvement), I know people have reservations about it BUT I cannot fathom why, it performs superbly AND the only way a Mini is better is if you plan on beating your assailant with the butt stock -- in that circumstance the Mini has it beat.

Equalizer
05-10-2005, 12:10 PM
I was in a gunshop the other day and I think my mind is made up they had both a Mini 14 and a Su16ca, I am very impressed with the Su 16 ca !!!
Bill