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caryt
03-09-2005, 8:47 AM
Could someone give me a link to the requirement's. I have owned a few guns over the years but none were ever registered. I am thinking that maybe its time?

Thanks, Cary

caryt
03-09-2005, 8:47 AM
Could someone give me a link to the requirement's. I have owned a few guns over the years but none were ever registered. I am thinking that maybe its time?

Thanks, Cary

bwiese
03-09-2005, 9:22 AM
CaryT...

There's really no requirement for handguns or non-assault-weapon long guns to be registered -- except if you're a 'personal handgun importer' - that is, only for someone who moved into California on/after 1 Jan 1998 _and_ brought in handgun(s) with him. If that is the case, you had up to 60 days to file reg papers on these guns. However, late filing of reg papers for these guns will NOT incriminate you:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
CPC 12072...(IV)(iii)(4)(B):
Paragraphs (2) and (3) shall not apply to a person who reports his or her ownership of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person after the applicable grace period specified in paragraph (2) or (3) expires if evidence of that violation arises only as the result of the person submitting the report described in paragraph (2) or (3). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

New resident handgun ownership report is at:
http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/forms/pdf/ab991frm.pdf

Voluntary firearms record form:
http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/forms/pdf/volreg.pdfownership

In either case, I think it's a $19/gun fee.

Now, if you have bought a handgun thru a dealer in CA since mid-1980s, it's effectively registered thru the DROS (Dealer Record of Sale) process.

If you bought ANY gun or guns directly from a private party in CA and without paperwork, that was perfectly legal up to and until 31 Dec 1990 (as long as no other peripheral issues - stolen gun, felony record, etc.) However, these guns are NOT registered to you even though the transfer and their continued possession is legal.

Any guns - handguns or long guns - you bought privately and without paperwork or dealer assistance in CA on or after 1 Jan 1991 would be considered illegal gun sales, because after that date all gun transfers, sales, etc. had to go thru a licensed dealer w/a background check, 10 day waiting period, etc.

Registering guns acquired without paperwork in CA after 1/1/91 might well get you in trouble if the gun were manufactured on/after 1/1/91, or there was evidence (record of sale, police report, etc.) that the gun belonged to someone else after this date, and there was no official transfer to you since that date. These facts kinda automatically testify against you.

Registration isn't that useful except in cases of recovery of lost/stolen guns when you don't have receipts, etc. It's sometimes hard to get guns returned from police/sheriff's depts without jumping thru lots of hoops.

Also, if for some reason you had to (illegally) carry a concealed handgun, you should do it with a gun that has been registered to you.
(I am not recommending violating the law, just advising differences in penalties...) If you somehow got popped for illegal CCW, penalties for 1st time violation are more relaxed (misdemeanor/fine) than if the gun found on you were not registered in your name (felony charges initially filed).

[As a separate note, some specifically-named handguns are considered assault weapons in CA via Roberti-Roos law and had to be registered as AWs by 12/31/91. Other handguns like TEC9 clones, etc. that have 'evil features' mag wells outside of pistol grip, etc. had to be registered as AWs by 12/31/2000. Continued possession of these without registration is a felony, and attempts at registration may cause legal problems - there is a procedure to surrender such AWs to sheriff's office, or the AW should be immediately (and surreptitiuosly) moved out of state.]

Bottom line:<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> registration may possibly help you recover lost/stolen gun(s);

<LI> if you moved w/handguns into CA on/after 1 Jan 98, you had 60 days to reg your handguns. You can file a voluntary reg later without incriminating yourself.

<LI> any handguns you got from a CA gunshop, FFL dealer, etc. since early 80s are reg'd to you already;

<LI> all firearms you got paper-free on/before 12/31/90 are legal but are not registered to you;

<LI> firearms you got paper-free on/after 1/1/90 were not legally transferred to you and subsequent registration attempts could cause you problems;

<LI> guns you (illegally) got paper-free on/after 1/1/90 had a mfgr date at least somewhat before 31 Dec 90 - and there was no other record of sale or legal action concerning that gun in another person's name since then - would be very difficult for DA to prove were illegally transferred to you.

<LI> special exceptions/paperwork/reg for guns considered assault weapons;

<LI> enhanced penalties for illegal CCW of a handgun not registered to you;

[/list]



Bill Wiese
San Jose

caryt
03-09-2005, 12:40 PM
Bill, thank you very much for the info. I called S&W and found out that one was man in '81 and one was '84 so I am ok. They are both #59 14+1, I got one from my brother and traded one for a 357 that my buddy wanted back. So they may or may not be reg.? to them. I have all materals, boxes, warrentee's ect with them plus 2 mags each holsters ect. Nether one has had more than a couple of doz shots fired. I been thinking of selling one and getting a .45 and did not know if it would be a problem since they are not reg. to me.

Cary

bwiese
03-10-2005, 10:35 AM
Cary...

Well, so the mfgd dates are reasonable ones to support legal pre-91 private sale. As long as either:

(1) you got these both toys in your hot little hands before Jan 1 1991,

.. or ...

(2) ... there's no paperwork activity, registration, etc. showing that someone else besides you had these after Jan 1 1991 - (which would imply you (illegally) got 'em after 1 Jan 1991.)

... then you're OK.

Bill W
San Jose

caryt
03-10-2005, 11:27 AM
Thanks Bill, Yes I got one in 84 and the other pre a couple of years later and thats the one I got from my brother.

Cary

bwiese
03-10-2005, 1:13 PM
Then, Cary, you're entirely legit.

If you wanna sell/trade these guns in CA, you can do this via face-to-face private-party transfer at an FFL dealer (or sheriff's office?).

Voluntary registration will not do you any additional good - other than possibly helping you recover these guns if lost/stolen, or stoping you from being popped for felony unlicensed CCW if you were 'carrying'.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

caryt
03-10-2005, 2:02 PM
Great, I would like to sell or trade one of these but first I need to find out there value.

I would like to get a CC permit but I need to do some reading, and get some training first. I can't afford the problems of not getting licenced. I am not even sure its possible in the bay area.

Cary

PKAY
03-10-2005, 2:02 PM
Bill - Do local Sheriff's Offices do PPT's now as well as 01 FFl's? News to me if that's the case.

BTW, thank you for the benefit of your knowledge in these matters. I thought I understood them well, but not as well as you do.

bwiese
03-10-2005, 3:00 PM
PKAY..

Under certain circumstances Sheriff's or PD offices may be able to do PPTs. But I think there may be some funky rural area restriction etc - i.e., if there's no dealers around??

I don't recall exact details. I'll dig this up someday.

As an engineer I'm accustomed to reading abstruse documents with lotsa seemingly conflicting details So reading gun law isn't too bad http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bill Wiese
San Jose

bwiese
03-10-2005, 3:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by caryt:
Great, I would like to sell or trade one of these but first I need to find out there value.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice condition Smith Model 59 may be worth a fair amount. Check GunBroker.COM bid histories on these guns over a month or so..

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> would like to get a CC permit but I need to do some reading, and get some training first. I can't afford the problems of not getting licenced. I am not even sure its possible in the bay area. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cary, getting a CCW in Bay Area is almost impossible. There may be a slightly higher incidence of them in E. Bay/rural Contra Costa etc but they're few & far between and hard to get because it's "may issue" and you have to 'show good cause' - which is rarely good enough!

Bill Wiese
San Jose


Cary[/QUOTE]

imported_1911_sfca
03-10-2005, 3:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> "It is the policy of the Chief of Police of the San Francisco Police Department to issue a concealed weapon permit only in the most extraordinary circumstances." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is a direct quote from a letter I received within the last week.

In other words.. you ain't gettin one.