Poll: Would you apply for a shall issue CCW?

[Fjold]

If Sykes or any other case wins that changes California to a shall-issue state for CCWs with what you know about the liability and laws concerning the use of deadly force, would you get a CCW?

[rrr70]

DO WANT!

[MrClamperSir]

If Sykes or any other case wins that changes California to a shall-issue state for CCWs with what you know about the liability and laws concerning the use of deadly force, would you get a CCW?

The only time you should use deadly force is when it's life (or GREAT bodily injury) or death. At that point I don't believe you'll be thinking about laws and liability.

[JDoe]

If Sykes or any other case wins that changes California to a shall-issue state for CCWs with what you know about the liability and laws concerning the use of deadly force, would you get a CCW?

You betcha! I have some non-resident CCWs from other states and carry in free states as permitted by law so yeah without a question I'd apply for a shall issue CCW in California when it becomes available.

[BillCA]

While I live in one of the safer cities in the State (in the country for that matter) -- for it's size -- I know for a fact that serious crimes happen within a 3 mile radius of where I live.

I don't think anyone is specifically targeting me, nor am I in danger from gangs in the neighborhood. But serious crimes happen all the time and I'm lucky enough that I'm not there.

A good example was this afternoon some guy was seen alongside the road, first kicking his car and swearing. Minutes later, beating the windows out with a tire iron. Bad day for him & his car, right? Up until he bashed a few passing cars honking because he was in the roadway. Smashed a car window and sprayed two kids in the backseat with glass. Cops hooked him up with a free black & white taxi ride to the graybar hotel.

Now, it doesn't take much to imagine you or I could be in the wrong place when someone else has a bad day. Why should I get hurt because some f...wit can't control his temper? Or has stopped taking his medication?

[Fjold]

The only time you should use deadly force is when it's life (or GREAT bodily injury) or death. At that point I don't believe you'll be thinking about laws and liability.


Personally I feel that if you make the conscious decision to carry a gun you should have a great deal of knowledge about those issues before you get into any situation where deadly force is even a remote possibility.

[nick]

Yes, I would. The liability/laws/etc. don't change whether or not I have a CCW. What does change is my chances of protecting myself and my family.

[MrClamperSir]

Personally I feel that if you make the conscious decision to carry a gun you should have a great deal of knowledge about those issues before you get into any situation where deadly force is even a remote possibility.

Such as....?

[Turo]

Like I said in the other thread, Heck Yeah I'd get my CCW. As soon as I turned 21 that is :)

[radioburning]

DO WANT!

What he said.

[andrewj]

Im not sure how to answer the poll. As a student, my only concern would be the campus carry issue. Correct me if Im wrong but PC permits a person holding a valid license to carry on a campus unless the permit is otherwise restricted by the issuing authority. What about the campus' "no firearm" policy though? It doesnt look like the carrier could get in any legal trouble but s/he would probably still vulnerable to disciplinary action by the school for violating school policy. I understand the carrier can get permission from the campus head honcho but I doubt thats likely.

[nick]

Im not sure how to answer the poll. As a student, my only concern would be the campus carry issue. Correct me if Im wrong but PC permits a person holding a valid license to carry on a campus unless the permit is otherwise restricted by the issuing authority. What about the campus' "no firearm" policy though? It doesnt look like the carrier could get in any legal trouble but s/he would probably still vulnerable to disciplinary action by the school for violating school policy. I understand the carrier can get permission from the campus head honcho but I doubt thats likely.

Organize a Students for Concealed Carry on Campus chapter in your school.

[Librarian]

Im not sure how to answer the poll. As a student, my only concern would be the campus carry issue. Correct me if Im wrong but PC permits a person holding a valid license to carry on a campus unless the permit is otherwise restricted by the issuing authority. What about the campus' "no firearm" policy though? It doesnt look like the carrier could get in any legal trouble but s/he would probably still vulnerable to disciplinary action by the school for violating school policy. I understand the carrier can get permission from the campus head honcho but I doubt thats likely.

Exactly. The word 'expulsion' comes to mind.

Few schools seem to be firearm-friendly.

[Doheny]

OK, who's the one person that wouldn't apply???

[nick]

Someone with poor eyesight or contrarian mindset :)

[Electricboy]

you should have put "already have one" in there.

[steadyrock]

To the person who would not apply: Why not?

[Lancear15]

OK, who's the one person that wouldn't apply???

The same one guy that voted for keeping a mini 14 over an ar15. Some people just like to be a stick in the mud.

[djandj]

I don't see the validity of the poll. The numbers when I voted were 97% yes. however, actual real data from counties where CCW's are actually issued shows that a very small percentage of the total population ever bothers to jump through all the hoops necessary. (This presumably includes gun owners).

The poll should say, would you (do all the things you need to do to get the license) such as . . . submit to background investigation, take the training classes, pay the fees, do the interviews maybe even take a psychological test etc. etc. in order to get your CCW for two years and do it all again every two years. Real world data says single digits. . . not 97%

[Fjold]

Such as....?

Knowing that if you have to use deadly force you most probably will be arrested, which means bail and lawyer fees. You better have all your "T"s crossed and "I"s dotted with every action that you took up to and including the actual time of the event.

You might easily be sued by the perp's family and that you won't have the deep pockets of a PD or city/county behind you so you alone will be named as party to the suit so that's more lawyer fees.

[berto]

I don't see the validity of the poll. The numbers when I voted were 97% yes. however, actual real data from counties where CCW's are actually issued shows that a very small percentage of the total population ever bothers to jump through all the hoops necessary. (This presumably includes gun owners).

The poll should say, would you (do all the things you need to do to get the license) such as . . . submit to background investigation, take the training classes, pay the fees, do the interviews maybe even take a psychological test etc. etc. in order to get your CCW for two years and do it all again every two years. Real world data says single digits. . . not 97%

Self-selection at work here.

[Fig]

I would apply. Just because you have one doesn't mean you are required to carry everytime you leave the house. It's like insurance. You have to have it before you need it.

[Fjold]

I don't see the validity of the poll. The numbers when I voted were 97% yes. however, actual real data from counties where CCW's are actually issued shows that a very small percentage of the total population ever bothers to jump through all the hoops necessary. (This presumably includes gun owners).

The poll should say, would you (do all the things you need to do to get the license) such as . . . submit to background investigation, take the training classes, pay the fees, do the interviews maybe even take a psychological test etc. etc. in order to get your CCW for two years and do it all again every two years. Real world data says single digits. . . not 97%

That's why I started the original post not as a poll. I was trying to get people to discuss what the percentage of regular people in California would apply for CCW not just the gun nuts on here.

[Jesse996r]

I would apply.

[VegasND]

Since I've already applied, I'd apply again in CA so I could carry there.

I'd rather CA just recognize the permit(s) I already have...

[djandj]

That's why I started the original post not as a poll. I was trying to get people to discuss what the percentage of regular people in California would apply for CCW not just the gun nuts on here.

I think we have data on that already
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/ccwissuances2007.pdf

- it's very low - in the single digits (by percentage of total population) in some places and not much more overall.

[bruceflinch]

That's why I started the original post not as a poll. I was trying to get people to discuss what the percentage of regular people in California would apply for CCW not just the gun nuts on here.

Were you smiling when you typed that?

[technique]

yes.

[BillCA]

I think the number of "applicants" is probably misleading for two reasons. First is I'm sure some agencies actively work to discourage applicants by telling them their verbally stated "good cause" won't fly. Second, many people are told by others that it's nearly impossible to obtain a CCW in the first place.

Also, IIRC the stats from places like Florida, Texas and other states show that only between about 3% to 7% of the population obtains a CCW permit. Taking 5% as a middle ground, that would be about 1.9 million Californians (1.14 to 2.66 million for 3% and 7% respectively). That's still far and away a lot more than we have today - about forty-seven times more.¹

Just because the numbers are a single digit percentage doesn't mean almost nobody wants one. Thats the potential for up to 2 million people to interrupt a crime.

¹ Does not exclude ineligible persons in the population, such as felons, minors and those with DV convictions.

[MrClamperSir]

Knowing that if you have to use deadly force you most probably will be arrested, which means bail and lawyer fees. You better have all your "T"s crossed and "I"s dotted with every action that you took up to and including the actual time of the event.

You might easily be sued by the perp's family and that you won't have the deep pockets of a PD or city/county behind you so you alone will be named as party to the suit so that's more lawyer fees.

Agreed. In order to get a CCW your are required to go through training which informs you of those issues. However I don't believe you'll be thinking about it if someone were trying to take your life and you had to defend it.

[M. D. Van Norman]

I would apply for the license, though I expect the general issuance would remain low. Of course, if cars could be hidden in pockets, driver licenses probably wouldn’t be issued to more than two or three percent of the population.

[Black Majik]

Knowing what it feels like to be armed, then stripped of that right, yes, I would apply for shall issue CCW.

[fuegoslow]

There are many issues to consider. I have a Utah CCW and will definitely apply for a California permit if possible. One issue talked about in the Class was liability in regards to custom ammunition? A CCW holder was sued by the family of the assailant or potential murderer after the CCW'er used a weapon to defend his life. The lawsuit stated that the ammo was more dangerous than what could be purchased at a "regular" gun shop. I don't recall the details but it could have been hollow point reloads with a custom powder charge. In any case, this was another headache this victim had to endure with lawyer fees, court costs, and I'm sure sleepless nights. I can't say what the outcome was, but our instructor, Jim Amentler, suggested we buy a box of factory ammo and only use a portion of those rounds in our carry weapon. The remaining rounds can be used as evidence in legal defense. Crazy story, huh!

[Fjold]

There are many issues to consider. I have a Utah CCW and will definitely apply for a California permit if possible. One issue talked about in the Class was liability in regards to custom ammunition? A CCW holder was sued by the family of the assailant or potential murderer after the CCW'er used a weapon to defend his life. The lawsuit stated that the ammo was more dangerous than what could be purchased at a "regular" gun shop. I don't recall the details but it could have been hollow point reloads with a custom powder charge. In any case, this was another headache this victim had to endure with lawyer fees, court costs, and I'm sure sleepless nights. I can't say what the outcome was, but our instructor, Jim Amentler, suggested we buy a box of factory ammo and only use a portion of those rounds in our carry weapon. The remaining rounds can be used as evidence in legal defense. Crazy story, huh!


I've heard that same story for over 30 years but I have yet to see anyone ever find a court case documenting it. Do I think that it's smart to use factory loaded ammuntion, especially if it's the same as local police, FBI, etc.? Absolutely!

But, if you ask who ever told you that for an actual court case/docket I would be amazed if they could produce one.

[hawk1547]

Count me in.I would love to have one.

[postal]

I've heard that same story for over 30 years but I have yet to see anyone ever find a court case documenting it. Do I think that it's smart to use factory loaded ammuntion, especially if it's the same as local police, FBI, etc.? Absolutely!

But, if you ask who ever told you that for an actual court case/docket I would be amazed if they could produce one.

Absolutely I'd apply for one.

Best Advice I've heard is to use the same ammo as the local PD. They use GOOD STUFF. Dont want to mess with reloads or custom anything- just off the shelf same SXT's or whatever the local PD uses- no issue and good ammo.... "IF" it works in your particular gun.

Just the same "rumours" I've heard- not based on actual experience- but it makes perfect sense. LE use quality ammo with good stopping power- no good reason to use something else in a carry gun.

Imagine a lawyer from a "wrongfull death" suit filed by the family of bad guy you rightfully killed- and the POS lawyer says you used "copkiller bullets" or personally loaded your own special deadly ammo that would ensure more pain and suffering and likely death.... far more so than quality hollow point off the shelf the po po use because you "wanted" the poor innocent (until proven guilty bad guy who is now dead) to suffer needlessly and you now owe his family $100's of thousands of dollars.... You "cruel! Cruel bastard you!"

Skip it- dont open yourself up for this- use the same off the shelf ammo they use and it's a non issue.

[MrClamperSir]

Absolutely I'd apply for one.

Best Advice I've heard is to use the same ammo as the local PD. They use GOOD STUFF. Dont want to mess with reloads or custom anything- just off the shelf same SXT's or whatever the local PD uses- no issue and good ammo.... "IF" it works in your particular gun.

Just the same "rumours" I've heard- not based on actual experience- but it makes perfect sense. LE use quality ammo with good stopping power- no good reason to use something else in a carry gun.

Imagine a lawyer from a "wrongfull death" suit filed by the family of bad guy you rightfully killed- and the POS lawyer says you used "copkiller bullets" or personally loaded your own special deadly ammo that would ensure more pain and suffering and likely death.... far more so than quality hollow point off the shelf the po po use because you "wanted" the poor innocent (until proven guilty bad guy who is now dead) to suffer needlessly and you now owe his family $100's of thousands of dollars.... You "cruel! Cruel bastard you!"

Skip it- dont open yourself up for this- use the same off the shelf ammo they use and it's a non issue.

Not to mention they have spent a lot of time and money researching different types of ammo. Why not use their research to your advantage.

[510shooter510]

I dont want to carry a gun everyday or even once a week for that matter. But I hate not being allowed to in a so called free country. I would apply simply because it is my right to.
Would i shoot anyone?...hell no! I would have to have my knees blown off before I considered taking a human life. To save my own life or my wife and kids i suppose i would. But that should be my right. All states should be shall issue states

[MrClamperSir]

I dont want to carry a gun everyday or even once a week for that matter. But I hate not being allowed to in a so called free country. I would apply simply because it is my right to.
Would i shoot anyone?...hell no! I would have to have my knees blown off before I considered taking a human life. To save my own life or my wife and kids i suppose i would. But that should be my right. All states should be shall issue states

Best not carry a gun then.

[POLICESTATE]

Rights need to be exercised to remain strong, I would not only apply for a CCW but upon getting one I would carry at least 90% of the time.

[hollabillz]

I dont want to carry a gun everyday or even once a week for that matter. But I hate not being allowed to in a so called free country. I would apply simply because it is my right to.
Would i shoot anyone?...hell no! I would have to have my knees blown off before I considered taking a human life. To save my own life or my wife and kids i suppose i would. But that should be my right. All states should be shall issue states

So as long as attackers avoid aiming for your knees, they're good to go? ;)

[hollabillz]

Yes. I'd also pay $22/mo. for $250k of self-defense coverage. http://www.locktonrisk.com/nrains/defense.htm

And hope that all my payments all drop to their bottom line. ;)

[hybridatsun350]

I'd apply yesterday.

[5hundo]

Yeah, definitely. I'm actually thinking about changing residency so I can apply in a county that is cool...

DO WANT!

Cool avatar...

"Eastern Promises" is a very underrated movie...

[Capt. Speirs]

In a heartbeat!! My families well being and mine are solely my responsibility; I do not expect any Military or Law Enforcement agency to become by personal bodyguard.

[lioneaglegriffin]

yep, provides me an excuse to by more guns as well.

[Sky_DiveR]

Would you still apply if your personal info was public record, like home ownership?

[StraightShooter]

I would still apply but that would not make me happy. It would be an unfortunate trade off but the right of being able to carry a gun, in my opinion, would outweigh the negatives of certain info becoming public record.

Would you still apply if your personal info was public record, like home ownership?

[WileyWilly]

I would apply in a New York Minute!!!
WW