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View Full Version : Is this normal for a Glock? *UPDATE post 43*


sammy
08-09-2009, 5:03 PM
I got my New G19 out to the range on Friday and loaded up a full magazine. Round one cycled and fired like normal. I squeezed off another round and felt the slide shift forward a bit and heard the striker fall but no boom. I ejected the offending round and noticed this off center light strike on the primer. It looks like the striker dropped when the gun was not in battery. I fired off another 200 trouble free rounds but checked to make sure it was in battery before firing off any more shots.

After I got the gun home I crept the slide back and saw just how far the gun would drop the striker out of battery. Here is a pict of the furthest back the slide would go and still drop the striker. Is this normal for a Glock? I think I got very lucky the round did not fire and it has me worried. Ammo used is WWB 115g. The round's OAL is 1.163 and the crimp is .374.

Is their a problem here or should I send it back to Glock?


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x183/carcrazysammy/002-4.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x183/carcrazysammy/003-3.jpg

Opus109
08-09-2009, 5:19 PM
Shoot another 500 rounds through the gun, and provide another update.

BamBam-31
08-09-2009, 5:22 PM
No way that can be right. You'll have an out of battery KB. I'd send it back for sure.

It's probably an easy fix, but I'd send it back on their dime anyways just to be sure.

sammy
08-09-2009, 5:23 PM
I feild stripped the gun and lubed the slide and barrel well. Lube is not a problem. I jsut checked my G20sf and 34 and they will not drop the striker unless the slide is completely closed.

J-cat
08-09-2009, 5:31 PM
That's one way you get the dreaded KB- out of battery discharge.

hybridatsun350
08-09-2009, 7:34 PM
Shoot another 500 rounds through the gun, and provide another update.

No, he needs to fix this problem now. He shouldn't be having this issue, period.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
08-09-2009, 8:04 PM
No, he needs to fix this problem now. He shouldn't be having this issue, period.

Agreed. Send it back.

Gryff
08-09-2009, 8:39 PM
Glad it turned out alright. My 1st Gen G17 kaboomed back in November (March 1986 production on the gun...errr!). Based on the damage on the shell casing, you could tell that the gun fired while out of battery.

Damage: Blew off the slide stop. Blew the magazine out of the guns and the lips off the mag. Cracked the left side of the frame for 2" down from the top along the grip.

IF you think the gun is going to/does this again, get it to a Glock armorer (or send it back to Glock) ASAP.

bin31z
08-09-2009, 10:35 PM
Yea, this is very bad. I'm surprised that Glock even let this pistol out of the factory.

J-cat
08-09-2009, 10:38 PM
Surprised? Whatcha think- Glock is the holy grail of pistols?

Grumpyoldretiredcop
08-10-2009, 12:28 AM
It doesn't happen too often, but it happens to everybody sooner or later.

bin31z
08-10-2009, 1:21 AM
Well...i just think something like this should be one of the points to be checked as part of quality control procedures. Something like this creates ALOT of liability for Glock. Its better to spend a little money on QC then to lose millions in a lawsuit.

CalNRA
08-10-2009, 2:49 AM
hmm...

So help me out here guys. I just went to the range with a new 26, and out of 150 rounds of WWB I had two dud rounds that didn't go off. It had no issues with any Blazer Brass. The dimple from the striker wasn't quite as off center as the OP's but a little shallow just like his

At the shop when I was doing the safety demonstration, both the guy at the counter and I had a hard time to not pop out the dummy round while retracting the slide, and he mentioned that it looked like a tight chamber.

How far should the slide be retracted back before it cannot fire? mine looks like the slide has to go back more than 2 mm in order to be unable to fire. Is that within tolerance or needs repairing?

Is there a Glock Armorer in the Bay Area? I would like to have it checked out before I fire it again. My 36 has never failed to fire a round in the thousands of rounds I have run through it.

Thanks

SJgunguy24
08-10-2009, 2:59 AM
Take it to L.C. Action in San Jose. There is usally a "Certified Glock Armorer" (someone who sat through the class) or they should be able to get their Glock rep in there to help you out. If you chamber is too tight thats an accident waiting to happen.



hmm...

So help me out here guys. I just went to the range with a new 26, and out of 150 rounds of WWB I had two dud rounds that didn't go off. It had no issues with any Blazer Brass. The dimple from the striker wasn't quite as off center as the OP's but a little shallow just like his

At the shop when I was doing the safety demonstration, both the guy at the counter and I had a hard time to not pop out the dummy round while retracting the slide, and he mentioned that it looked like a tight chamber.

How far should the slide be retracted back before it cannot fire? mine looks like the slide has to go back more than 2 mm in order to be unable to fire. Is that within tolerance or needs repairing?

Is there a Glock Armorer in the Bay Area? I would like to have it checked out before I fire it again. My 36 has never failed to fire a round in the thousands of rounds I have run through it.

Thanks

hybridatsun350
08-10-2009, 9:33 AM
Surprised? Whatcha think- Glock is the holy grail of pistols?

No, but I think you need to stop trying to constantly start **** with people! Every time I see you post in a thread it's because you need to bash on something or want to start an argument. :mad:

Darklyte27
08-10-2009, 9:50 AM
get that fixed! im almost at 5k! posts that is.. haha

domokun
08-10-2009, 11:42 AM
Take it to L.C. Action in San Jose. There is usally a "Certified Glock Armorer" (someone who sat through the class) or they should be able to get their Glock rep in there to help you out. If you chamber is too tight thats an accident waiting to happen.

The other option is to take it to a GSSF event. There's always someone there that can help you with your Glock. :)

ghost
08-10-2009, 12:07 PM
have bigmac at irvington arms check it for you,he`s a glock certified armorer.

krim
08-10-2009, 12:21 PM
what's that white'ish line below the Glock logo and serial? I hope that's not a crack

hkdad
08-10-2009, 1:14 PM
that is NOT normal. pls don't fire the gun. bring it to a certified glock armorer ASAP.

Sky_DiveR
08-10-2009, 2:14 PM
I just looked at all my semi's (don't have a Glock, tho) and none of them will drop the hammer if the slide moves just a hair out of battery. Is this normal in a Glock? Or even a well-used Glock? I've heard of the dreaded Glock KB but never seen or been around one (thank god!). Could it be a disconnector problem letting you drop the hammer too soon? Glock owners and/or armorers speak up. I'm really curious about this.

AJD
08-10-2009, 4:52 PM
I just looked at all my semi's (don't have a Glock, tho) and none of them will drop the hammer if the slide moves just a hair out of battery. Is this normal in a Glock? Or even a well-used Glock? I've heard of the dreaded Glock KB but never seen or been around one (thank god!). Could it be a disconnector problem letting you drop the hammer too soon? Glock owners and/or armorers speak up. I'm really curious about this.

It really depends on the individual gun. I've seen some Glocks that won't do it, but some (my G21 is one) that are capable of doing it. I guess it's just a matter of tolerances. Fwiw, I talked with someone at the range one day who works for L.A.P.D and he stated the infamous G21 faillure to fire problems some of their officers had were caused by high primer strikes. Of course that's all hersay. IMO, it's imperative to keep the weapon clean, even though it is a Glock and some people think they need no maintenance. Also a weak recoil spring or even a striker spring that is too strong and thus it works against the recoil spring makes this more likely. I've swaped to a non-captive recoil rod and spring with 19# rating for peace of mind.

sammy
08-10-2009, 5:15 PM
Well the gun was super clean. I ran a brush down the barrel and lubed the barrel hood with a drop of oil before firing. Will an out of spec disconnector cause the problem? I have an extra on hand and could try it if that is a possibility.

BamBam-31
08-10-2009, 7:07 PM
Glock factory or certified armorer. Period.

sammy
08-10-2009, 7:58 PM
I just put another factory disconnector in the gun and it still fires out of battery.

Will Glock send a call tag or do I need to eat the shipping back to them?

AJD
08-10-2009, 8:10 PM
I'm not sure about shipping to Glock, maybe someone will chime in with their experience. I would call them asap though.

Btw, even if the new disconnector stopped the gun from being able to fire out of battery, you would still have the issue of the gun not going fully into battery. So while the gun would not fire in that instance (and that's a good thing) you still would have a gun that would not be functioning in that instance. And a brand new gun, with a new recoil spring, that is also clean, should be going into full battery every time.

PLINK
08-10-2009, 8:21 PM
After I got the gun home I crept the slide back and saw just how far the gun would drop the striker out of battery. Here is a pict of the furthest back the slide would go and still drop the striker. Is this normal for a Glock? I think I got very lucky the round did not fire and it has me worried. Ammo used is WWB 115g. The round's OAL is 1.163 and the crimp is .374.

Is their a problem here or should I send it back to Glock?


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x183/carcrazysammy/002-4.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x183/carcrazysammy/003-3.jpg

So you are forcing it out of battery by holding the slide back by hand and then you are pulling the trigger?

When you pull the trigger does the slide want to move forward?

If this is what you are doing I can duplicate it with my Glock 19, 26 and 22.

If you are worried about it get it looked at. To me, the round in the picture did not go off when out of battery = a good thing. I would expect to see some kind of hit on the primer as shown in the picture.

I may be completely wrong but this is how I see the situation.

NewbieDave
08-11-2009, 12:51 AM
For the OP and anyone else that's shooting WWB.

FYI... I'm assuming that the ammo you're using is WWB, if not... ignore my post. I shoot IDPA and a lot of the shooters use WWB. In the last 6 months, I have witnessed 6 (one was my own) separate incident where a round had failed to fire after a good hit on the primer. Opening the round, there's powder in it and the primer looks good. Re-striker the primer doesn't do anything.

All incidents were 9mm WWB value packs. I don't have the lot number to compare... but I would assume that WRA had a bad lot of primers.

Just my 2 cent.

~dpc

SJgunguy24
08-11-2009, 2:04 AM
The other option is to take it to a GSSF event. There's always someone there that can help you with your Glock. :)

When is the next GSSF event? L.C. is open 6 days a week.


have bigmac at irvington arms check it for you,he`s a glock certified armorer.

IIRC L.C. is not supposed to charge for any servicing if the issue is safety related. I think it's a deal they have with Glock, if you seen the prices you'de crap yourself. The exact gun anywhere else will be at least 100$ more.

sammy
08-11-2009, 9:11 AM
So you are forcing it out of battery by holding the slide back by hand and then you are pulling the trigger?

When you pull the trigger does the slide want to move forward?

If this is what you are doing I can duplicate it with my Glock 19, 26 and 22.

If you are worried about it get it looked at. To me, the round in the picture did not go off when out of battery = a good thing. I would expect to see some kind of hit on the primer as shown in the picture.

I may be completely wrong but this is how I see the situation.

Yes, I am forcing the slide back and when I pull the trigger the slide does jump foward.

duc748bip
08-11-2009, 11:55 AM
My old G23 does that when i shot it with one hand. my mentor told me i have a limp wrist. holding it abit more firmly solve the problem but about after 500rd it went away.

CHS
08-11-2009, 2:18 PM
Shoot another 500 rounds through the gun, and provide another update.

Ok, seriously, why in the world would you *EVER* think this is a good idea?

*NO* firearm is safe to operate while it will fire out of battery. Period.

To recommend that someone fire FIVE HUNDRED rounds out of a firearm that will drop it's hammer/striker out of battery is just plain reckless endangerment.

pinwheels
08-11-2009, 2:53 PM
Next GSSF match is at Richmond Aug 22-23. Sign up, take it there, have the Glock factory armorer look it over. He'll have parts to replace anything that needs it, and he'll do it free - no shipping, no parts. Then shoot the match and have fun!

CalNRA
08-11-2009, 8:39 PM
Ok, seriously, why in the world would you *EVER* think this is a good idea?

*NO* firearm is safe to operate while it will fire out of battery. Period.

To recommend that someone fire FIVE HUNDRED rounds out of a firearm that will drop it's hammer/striker out of battery is just plain reckless endangerment.

can someone define "out of battery"?

from what I heard all Glocks can be pulled back *a little* and the striker will still fall.

My 26 will chamber home no problem but if I pull the slide back 2mm or less the striker is still engaged.

I think PLINK understands what the OP (and I) are talking about.
So you are forcing it out of battery by holding the slide back by hand and then you are pulling the trigger?

When you pull the trigger does the slide want to move forward?

If this is what you are doing I can duplicate it with my Glock 19, 26 and 22.

If you are worried about it get it looked at. To me, the round in the picture did not go off when out of battery = a good thing. I would expect to see some kind of hit on the primer as shown in the picture.

I may be completely wrong but this is how I see the situation.

My other Glock is not here but I can check it in a few days.

Pryde
08-11-2009, 9:06 PM
To the OP:
I don't know how many other people on this thread own G19s but I have two of them sitting in front of me (one Gen2, one Gen3) and I can replicate what you are doing with BOTH of them. This is normal as far as I can tell. Its kind of silly that you would give the dude advice without verifying it first and turning this whole thing into a panic frenzy.

With the slide back 2mm the barrel may be lowered a bit but the the round is still completely in battery, it does not actually go OUT of battery until the barrel unlocks and at that point the trigger can not be pulled.

The original question is whether or not this is normal.
Yes, it is normal. No need for panic or to send it back to Glock

Pryde
08-11-2009, 9:11 PM
On another note, this quirk may only apply to G19s specifically. The G19 will unlock slightly differently than all other models of Glock. Look at the barrel hood of your G19 on the side that is facing downrange. Notice that there is a slight bevel on the edge of hood. This bevel does not exist on any other model, only the G19. Glock tuned the unlocking time on the G19 several years ago to fix the Phase 3 malfunctions experienced by the NYPD. They did this by modifying the slide/barrel so that the G19 will unlock a fraction of a second faster than all other Glock models. This is probably why you can drop the trigger on the G19 but none of your other Glocks.

J-cat
08-11-2009, 9:22 PM
To the OP:
I don't know how many other people on this thread own G19s but I have two of them sitting in front of me (one Gen2, one Gen3) and I can replicate what you are doing with BOTH of them. This is normal as far as I can tell. Its kind of silly that you would give the dude advice without verifying it first and turning this whole thing into a panic frenzy.

With the slide back 2mm the barrel may be lowered a bit but the the round is still completely in battery, it does not actually go OUT of battery until the barrel unlocks and at that point the trigger can not be pulled.

The original question is whether or not this is normal.
Yes, it is normal. No need for panic or to send it back to Glock

The gun is designed so that the barrel and slide recoil to the rear together as a unit for a set distance (usually about 1/16" to 1/8") until the barrel cams down and separates from the slide. As the two travel to the rear, the bullet has time to leave the barrel and the pressure drops to a safe level. This is called dwell time.

If the slide is not fully forward, dwell time is reduced or eliminated alltogether. The barrel will separate from the slide, and will begin to extract the case, while the bullet is still accelerating in the barrel and the pressure is peaking.

That's how KB's happen.

sammy
08-12-2009, 4:58 PM
I called Glock this morning and they told me to send it in. I am eating the shipping. I will report back when I get it back. Sammy

BamBam-31
08-12-2009, 5:10 PM
Good call. :thumbsup:

If they find that it's something that should be covered under warranty, you shoudn't have to eat shipping, either.

ETA: I'm fiddling with my G19 right now (Gen 3, DK****), and it will NOT strike unless the slide is completely closed. I'm trying to duplicate the whole 2mm OOB strike on an empty chamber, and I can't. Either it strikes when completely closed, or pulling the trigger pushes the slide back even more out of battery (and no strike). :shrug:

AJD
08-12-2009, 7:17 PM
To the OP:
I don't know how many other people on this thread own G19s but I have two of them sitting in front of me (one Gen2, one Gen3) and I can replicate what you are doing with BOTH of them. This is normal as far as I can tell. Its kind of silly that you would give the dude advice without verifying it first and turning this whole thing into a panic frenzy.

With the slide back 2mm the barrel may be lowered a bit but the the round is still completely in battery, it does not actually go OUT of battery until the barrel unlocks and at that point the trigger can not be pulled.

The original question is whether or not this is normal.
Yes, it is normal. No need for panic or to send it back to Glock

On one hand I do agree that being capable of firing out of battery is not as big of a deal, and in fact it is more of a norm (my G21 can do it). The problem that's not normal is the fact that apparently the gun has a problem going fully into battery and did cause a ftf. He absolutely needs to send it in or be checked by a qualified person. No matter what he has a gun that is malfunctioning. Unless he wants a gun that could potentially have failure to fire.

Meka
08-12-2009, 7:37 PM
Contact Glock ASAP!
If new, get it replaced.

sammy
08-25-2009, 4:58 PM
Well I got the G19 back from Glock yesterday and opened the box knowing they fixed the problem. After all they did build the gun and thousands of them just like it. Wala:

Inspected Unable to reproduce the problem
Test fired
Meets factory specs

What a joke and to top it off I ate $60.00 in shipping. Thanks Glock!!:mad:

sammy
08-25-2009, 5:00 PM
And to add I did pull the bullet from the case in the pict and sent it to them. They had everything they needed to see their is a real problem. Lucky me I have not read anywhere that a kaboom caused any real injury.

JBird33
08-25-2009, 5:16 PM
And to add I did pull the bullet from the case in the pict and sent it to them. They had everything they needed to see their is a real problem. Lucky me I have not read anywhere that a kaboom caused any real injury.

Maybe try and see if there are any Glock armorers in your area? Perhaps see if a 1-2 pound stiffer spring could help it out? Bummer to hear about that from Glock, they usually have top rated CS.

trinydex
08-25-2009, 5:44 PM
so what say all those who said it's normal?

den888
08-25-2009, 6:54 PM
LAPD took their Glock 21's off the street for this very issue, known as 'light strikes'.

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/leo-talk/10203-lapd-suspending-glock-21-use.html

Greg-Dawg
08-25-2009, 7:51 PM
Let me know how much you're going to sell it.

Hop Sing
08-25-2009, 10:38 PM
It could also be caused by limp wristing while shooting the 19. Shoot more thru the gun and break it in. From the photo your gun look wet with lube. The Glock should appear dry when properly lubed. The gun only needs a few drops as described in the manual and here on the board.

Hope it helps, let us know if this occurs again.

BamBam-31
08-25-2009, 10:43 PM
If Glock gave your pistol a clean bill of health, I'd say it's worth the $60. Peace of mind and all. Maybe it was just a break-in quirk. Can you still drop the striker w/ the slide pulled back? If so, ditto the Glock armorer suggestion above.

I hope your experience thus far does not spoil your view of the G19 in particular and Glocks in general. They're usually fantastic pistols.

pinwheels
08-26-2009, 1:12 AM
Forgive me if I missed this, but from the original description, it sounds very similar to the one described in this thread.
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=997964
The key question is: "When you felt the gun cycle, did the trigger reset?"

I'm the perpetrator of the above thread, and it had me going for weeks. I'm still not sure I totally understand how the slide can cycle and chamber a round without resetting the trigger, unless it has to do with the harmonics of the gun during a fairly violent event. In any event, I had similar symptoms: round in the chamber with a light, off-center primer strike, and no trigger reset. The Glock armorer at a GSSF match said "recoil spring" and replaced it. I've gone another 2-3K rounds since then with only two such events. The first time, I had 6 within maybe 3 boxes.

I'll admit I had been storing the gun with the slide locked back, and had put about 2000 rds though it in 6 months. Yours starting new sounds weird, but (if Glock didn't already do it), put in a new guide rod and spring. Way too cheap to not try.

In the thread mentioned above, I think I noted that I'd had a few "full auto" second rounds early on, and it's possible that this was the cause, however there was never any indication that it was not going fully into battery. The only indication I had on the ones I could diagnose after the fact was that the slide was fully in battery, a round chambered, and the trigger locked back. I think you're ok, but do try the recoil spring replacement.

sammy
08-26-2009, 7:16 AM
If Glock gave your pistol a clean bill of health, I'd say it's worth the $60. Peace of mind and all. Maybe it was just a break-in quirk. Can you still drop the striker w/ the slide pulled back? If so, ditto the Glock armorer suggestion above.

I hope your experience thus far does not spoil your view of the G19 in particular and Glocks in general. They're usually fantastic pistols.

Yes the striker will drop when the slode is pulled back. That problem remains. I am going to shoot the snot out of it with factory ammo and see if it happens again. If it is OK I will start reloading for it and see what happens. Sammy

sammy
08-26-2009, 7:23 AM
Forgive me if I missed this, but from the original description, it sounds very similar to the one described in this thread.
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=997964
The key question is: "When you felt the gun cycle, did the trigger reset?"

I'm the perpetrator of the above thread, and it had me going for weeks. I'm still not sure I totally understand how the slide can cycle and chamber a round without resetting the trigger, unless it has to do with the harmonics of the gun during a fairly violent event. In any event, I had similar symptoms: round in the chamber with a light, off-center primer strike, and no trigger reset. The Glock armorer at a GSSF match said "recoil spring" and replaced it. I've gone another 2-3K rounds since then with only two such events. The first time, I had 6 within maybe 3 boxes.

I'll admit I had been storing the gun with the slide locked back, and had put about 2000 rds though it in 6 months. Yours starting new sounds weird, but (if Glock didn't already do it), put in a new guide rod and spring. Way too cheap to not try.

In the thread mentioned above, I think I noted that I'd had a few "full auto" second rounds early on, and it's possible that this was the cause, however there was never any indication that it was not going fully into battery. The only indication I had on the ones I could diagnose after the fact was that the slide was fully in battery, a round chambered, and the trigger locked back. I think you're ok, but do try the recoil spring replacement.



Thanks for the info. The problems look similar except mine has only had the one failure and has never gone full auto thank god. I will look into a new recoil spring assembly and see if it helps. I am going to head out to the range friday and put 100 or so downrange and see what happens. Sammy

CHS
08-26-2009, 8:32 AM
I'll admit I had been storing the gun with the slide locked back, and had put about 2000 rds though it in 6 months.

Side question: What is your reason for storing the gun with the slide locked back?

pinwheels
08-26-2009, 9:23 AM
Side question: What is your reason for storing the gun with the slide locked back?

Full-on case of cranius rectus insertus. Didn't have a gun safe, so was leaving the high security cable lock (DOJ says it is, and I believe them) installed.:o

AJD
08-26-2009, 10:34 AM
Yes the striker will drop when the slode is pulled back. That problem remains.

I don't think that's the problem. Again, many Glocks I've seen can do this, and in fact other makes of pistols can do it to some degree. The problem is the pistol not going fully into battery. Even if Glock somehow fixed it so it was impossible to fire out of battery, then what? The gun wouldn't be going into battery and you would still have a malfunction. If Glock says its good, then maybe, as mentioned, it was just a break in quirk. If you really want extra piece of mind you could always add an extra power recoil spring to help the slide close with more strength. Also, I would continue shooting the winchester factory ammo while breaking it in, as the win primers are not as sensitive as say Federal. So if you do have another out of battery fire, at least it will be less likely to go off with an offcenter strike.

walter
08-26-2009, 11:16 AM
i have a G19C, when i pull back the slide a little, i mean very little, the striker will drop and the slide will go forward. anything more than your photo and it wont.