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halifax
08-08-2009, 2:14 PM
More than once on CGN I've seen dealers charging DROS fees > $25. Did I miss the memo?

jmarti2913
08-08-2009, 2:27 PM
I'm no FFL, but I thought the law was a maximum profit of $10 on a dros. So the state gets $25 in fees and you as the dealer can turn a profit of no more than $10=$35 max total.

halifax
08-08-2009, 2:36 PM
I'm talking about the DROS fee, not the dealer fee. But thanks.

Darklyte27
08-08-2009, 2:59 PM
theres transfer DROS as if you bought from another state and had it shipped to your FFL to transfer to you. DROS 25$ dealer may charge anything on top of that 25$
Most dealers do 75-100$
The cheapest i seen was 50$ in sacramento but is now 60$. stll a fair price.

Private party transfer, I am selling a gun to you directly, 25$ dros, 10$ max for the FFL.

jmarti2913
08-08-2009, 3:01 PM
Gotcha...sorry about that. Well, the answer to your question is above my pay grade:)

I'm talking about the DROS fee, not the dealer fee. But thanks.

halifax
08-08-2009, 3:09 PM
OK. Let me rephrase my question. The fee the State of CA charges for doing the background check is $25 as far as I know. Yet, I have seen dealers here in their For Sale threads quote $price of gun + xxx% Sales Tax + $26 DROS. I can't figure out where the extra dollar comes from on the DROS fee.

Isn't the CA DROS fee (NOT dealer fee):

$19(DROS Fee) + $5(Safety & Enforcement Fee) + $1(Safety Training Fee) = $25 total?

ke6guj
08-08-2009, 8:25 PM
It sounds like they can't add right, or might be including another fee and hiding it in the "DROS fee". As you mentioned, it is $19+$1+$5=$25. Anything more than that must be listed as a dealer fee.

What fees can I charge in addition to the DROS?
In addition to the State's $19.00 DROS fee, you must also charge a $1.00 Firearms Safety Testing fee and a $5.00 Safety and Enforcement fee. If the transaction being processed is a dealer sale, consignment return, or return from pawn, you may impose other charges as long as this amount is clearly shown as a "dealer fee" and not misrepresented as a State fee.

(PC sections 12071(b)(11), (12))
And some dealers do charge more than $25 total for a dealer sale. For instance, Turners adds a $5 "Turners handling fee" and I do recall a dealer on CG that charges an extra $35 "transfer fee" for items purchased out of his inventory.

halifax
08-09-2009, 1:01 AM
It sounds like they can't add right, or might be including another fee and hiding it in the "DROS fee". As you mentioned, it is $19+$1+$5=$25. Anything more than that must be listed as a dealer fee.


And some dealers do charge more than $25 total for a dealer sale. For instance, Turners adds a $5 "Turners handling fee" and I do recall a dealer on CG that charges an extra $35 "transfer fee" for items purchased out of his inventory.

Thanks. I thought they might be hiding additional fees as state fees. I don't care if a shop wants to charge extra but misrepresenting it as a state mandated fee is dishonest and illegal.

$35 !! Really? :chris:

ke6guj
08-09-2009, 1:05 AM
$35 !! Really? :chris:yup, http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=181289&highlight=rbetts

halifax
08-09-2009, 1:22 AM
As long as he's up front with it, I guess.

I think I'll stick to quoting the out-the-door price. No ambiguity there for people shopping around. :)

kemasa
08-09-2009, 8:39 AM
The DROS fee information is available from the CA DOJ website (below).

There are some FFLs who include the FFL fee with the sale of a firearm which is in inventory, but they don't have to, kind of like all the fees when you buy a vehicle.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#8
13. How much is the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) fee?

The State's DROS fee is $19.00 which covers the costs of the background checks and transfer registry. There is also a required $1.00 Firearms Safety Testing fee and a $5.00 Safety and Enforcement fee. If the transaction being processed is a dealer sale, consignment return, or return from pawn, the dealer may impose other charges as long as this amount is clearly shown as a "dealer fee" and not misrepresented as a state fee. In the event of a private party transfer, the firearms dealer may additionally charge a fee of $10 per firearm transferred.

When settling on the purchase price of a firearm and before completing the transaction, you may want to ask the dealer to disclose and identify any and all fees he/she is charging to complete the transaction.

(PC Sections 12076, 12082, and 12806)
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs.php#17G
17. What fees can I charge in addition to the DROS?

In addition to the State's $19.00 DROS fee, you must also charge a $1.00 Firearms Safety Testing fee and a $5.00 Safety and Enforcement fee. If the transaction being processed is a dealer sale, consignment return, or return from pawn, you may impose other charges as long as this amount is clearly shown as a "dealer fee" and not misrepresented as a State fee.

(PC sections 12071(b)(11), (12))

halifax
08-09-2009, 11:48 AM
Does this mean anything charged over $36 $35 is illegal on a PPT when both parties show up at the dealer?

Yes

kemasa
08-09-2009, 11:58 AM
Well, almost. If the FFL finds the buyer and/or gets involved with the sales price, then sales tax has to be collected. On a normal PPT, it is limited to $35 ($25 + $10 and has to be listed as that, not just $35). Consignment sales can be done as a PPT, but sales tax has to be collected.

Matt@EntrepriseArms
08-10-2009, 12:29 PM
The one thing I could never understand is the "show fee" charged on PPTs at gunshows.

As far as I understand it, the max you can charge for a PPT is $35.00 for one firearm, and $10 for each additional firearm, unless the firearms are handguns which requires a seperate DROS for each. You get a $4 discount on additional handguns (PPT), so the first one is $35, and each additional handgun is $31.

However, I always see people doing transfers charging a "show fee" of $50 or so, in addition to the PPT charge. Maybe they are using it as a "storage fee," or something like that, but why not just call it so? Even so, is it legal?

I always wondered why the ATF & DOJ never seems to get involved in stuff like that.

halifax
08-10-2009, 12:36 PM
The one thing I could never understand is the "show fee" charged on PPTs at gunshows.

As far as I understand it, the max you can charge for a PPT is $35.00 for one firearm, and $10 for each additional firearm, unless the firearms are handguns which requires a seperate DROS for each. You get a $4 discount on additional handguns (PPT), so the first one is $35, and each additional handgun is $31.

However, I always see people doing transfers charging a "show fee" of $50 or so, in addition to the PPT charge. Maybe they are using it as a "storage fee," or something like that, but why not just call it so? Even so, is it legal?

I always wondered why the ATF & DOJ never seems to get involved in stuff like that.

Wow, I guess I'm missing out. I do shows occasionally but never thought it exempted me from following the law. :cool:

kemasa
08-10-2009, 12:54 PM
I suspect that if you reported the charges to the CA DOJ, they would do something. They are not going to magically know about it and do something about it.

The law does not have exemptions.

only10x
08-10-2009, 2:58 PM
Im in S.cal, buying a gun from out of state. anyone have an FFl or can
recommend one? thanks

ke6guj
08-10-2009, 3:08 PM
Where in SoCal? SoCal is a large area to recommend a specific FFL. Plus, the type of firearm involved matters since not all FFLs are willing to transfer stuff like OLLs, or even some roster-exempt handguns.

kemasa
08-10-2009, 5:47 PM
There are many FFLs which can be recommended, but you need to give an idea of where you are willing to go to (live/work areas, for example).

Joe22
10-30-2009, 9:12 PM
I know this is old but i'm also wondering why it is $36 transfer some places... Where does that extra 1$ come from?

FFL in question is The Gun Room in Elk Grove.. Which is a pretty big and popular shop too... They charge $36 PPT

halifax
10-31-2009, 5:53 AM
I know this is old but i'm also wondering why it is $36 transfer some places... Where does that extra 1$ come from?

FFL in question is The Gun Room in Elk Grove.. Which is a pretty big and popular shop too... They charge $36 PPT

From Post #6

OK. Let me rephrase my question. The fee the State of CA charges for doing the background check is $25 as far as I know. Yet, I have seen dealers here in their For Sale threads quote $price of gun + xxx% Sales Tax + $26 DROS. I can't figure out where the extra dollar comes from on the DROS fee.

Isn't the CA DROS fee (NOT dealer fee):

$19(DROS Fee) + $5(Safety & Enforcement Fee) + $1(Safety Training Fee) = $25 total?

From Post #7

Originally Posted by CADOJ FAQ
What fees can I charge in addition to the DROS?
In addition to the State's $19.00 DROS fee, you must also charge a $1.00 Firearms Safety Testing fee and a $5.00 Safety and Enforcement fee. If the transaction being processed is a dealer sale, consignment return, or return from pawn, you may impose other charges as long as this amount is clearly shown as a "dealer fee" and not misrepresented as a State fee.

(PC sections 12071(b)(11), (12))

Currently, the state mandated MAXIMUM fee for a PPT is $25 DROS + a maximum $10 dealer fee = $35. Misrepresenting additional fees as state mandated fees is illegal. Charging more than $35 for a PPT is illegal.

Additional fees may be charged AFTER the 10-day wait if the dealer has those additional fees posted. Again, the additional fees may NOT be misrepresented as state fees.

(Contrary to the DOJ, some dealers will follow what the BOE says and add sales tax if the dealer facilitated the acquisition of the firearm in any way other than just doing the paperwork.)

Recently, I have seen posts that indicated some shop is misrepresenting the state fee alone as $30.