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View Full Version : 1911 in calibers other than 45... mainly 9mm and .40


MustangGreg66
08-07-2009, 10:08 PM
So I've been thinking about getting a 1911 in a caliber other than .45 ACP. Mainly for the economy of shooting and for lighter loads when teaching people to shoot. Also I shot a guy's Kimber 1911 in 9mm at the range the other week and I gotta say, I loved it.

My original thought was to get a new slide and barrel fit for one of my .45 ACP 1911s, but when I looked into it, and someone pointed out that I'd have to swap out the ejector in the lower, and that getting the upper fit by a gunsmith was quoted at $800-$2000 depending on parts.... buying a dedicated pistol started to make sense.

So the real question is, who makes a 1911 in 9mm or 40 S&W that I can get here in CA?

I have been keeping an eye on the classifieds, but every time one comes up, I've just bought something... Also I did look at the roster of handguns for sale in CA and I've come accross the following:

Springfield Armory Stainless 1911 - 9mm
Kimber Stainless Target 9mm
Para Ordinance double stack 1911 - 9mm PX189SR

Kimber Stainless Target 10mm
Para Stainless Double Stack SX1640SR .40S&W

I was thinking I could get the kimber 10mm and then have a .40 and 9mm barrel fit to it... This is what seems to be the most likely option at the moment.

Does anyone else make a 9mm, 10mm, or .40 that I can get in CA? Anyone have experience with them?

Synergy
08-07-2009, 10:21 PM
I believe Rock Island in .38 super is on list.

randy
08-08-2009, 12:39 AM
Slide under $300.00 Caspian retail price in SS, with Novak cuts.
Extractor 25.00
Firing pin and spring 10.00
Firing pin stop 10.00
Barrel 150.00
Ejector 25.00?
Bushing 20.00
Guide rod and spring 28.00
Fitting 200.00

$700 to 800 should get you there. If you shop around you can most likely beat that price. Not cheap but not a bad way to go. If you can find a frame or cheap 1911 someplace you are on your way to a custom built gun.

sholling
08-08-2009, 5:40 AM
It's your money but the only non-45acp 1911s that I would even consider owning are the Springfield EMP and Kimber's 22cal Rimfire Target (http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/rimfire/rimfire_target/). It's just too hard to find good quality magazines and such for a 40. If the goal is to save money on practice and training ammo how about a 22cal conversion for under $300.

Sunwolf
08-08-2009, 6:39 AM
Colt,Chip McCormick mags are available for the .40.

Bill92869
08-08-2009, 7:19 AM
Don't forget ot add a slide stop for 9mm conversion. I just did it myself and found that the slide would not stay open even with top quality mags. There is a slide stop just for that caliber.

cineski
08-08-2009, 7:46 AM
I would love to own a 9mm 1911. It would be a range only pistol, so caliber doesn't matter too much. 9 is so much cheaper to shoot, but still more fun than .22.

nosmatt
08-08-2009, 8:08 AM
10mm for economy and lighter loads?
really?


anyway, the rimfire conversion is the cheapest way to go, and the ammo at 5 cents a rounds vs. 40-60 cents a round for 45, and nearly a buck a round for 10mm.. the choice for economy is clear.
of course, this does not get you a new pistol either :D

i have been looking at the kimber target in 9mm for cheaper full loads, but hard to justify in my situation.

good luck!

draconianruler
08-08-2009, 8:52 AM
You can always look for a used Colt Detla in 10mm. There is also a Dan Wesson in 10mm however its not on the list and I don't think I've ever seen one PPT. Looks like Kimber is the way to go (good choice btw). I love mine.

BHPFan
08-08-2009, 9:25 AM
Since you asked about non-45ACP 1911 pistols, I saw yesterday at Turners Pasadena a couple of SA 1911 in .40SW. These are consignment pistols. Springfield used to make a run of those in the 90's.

BTW, I am not representing Turners nor posting an ad for them. Just reporting what I found recently.

MustangGreg66
08-08-2009, 12:12 PM
Damn, my lil brother used the live in Pasadena, he's now in Long Beach, but Yea, I'm in the bay area and he's broke, so damn, wish I could manage to get that gun at Turners. Do you remember how much they had it for?

Randy - Thanks for doing the leg work. I was thinking about flipping through the giant Brownells catalog for parts and pricing it out... I figured I could put something together for around that price... I'd love to just get a bunch of used parts and piece it together... maybe in time...

Sholling - I have a Kimber .22 conversion for my 1911, but I havn't spent the time to find some ammo that works it reliably. The Federal Bulk I have doesn't seem to work well in it and rimfire is so hard to find these days. I've tried some Remington Bulk Gold Dot and that seemed to work, but I havn't see that on the shelves in forever.

The reason I'm thinking 9mm is that I like the kimber I shot and just bought a bunch of 9mm mags used on another forum so I'm already started on the road here :)

Nosmatt - Yes you're right the 10mm wouldn't be cheap. I reload so It'd just be a matter of getting brass and then I can load the same bullets I currently have to load my .40 S&W. I've been curious about the 10mm for some time, I've read about how accurate the round inherently is and my dad has a Colt Delta Elite that I've shot... but I like my kimber better, just all the custom bells and whistles that they put on their guns these days. The idea behind the 10mm would be to get a .40 S&W barrel and have it fit, and then maybe just get a 9mm barrel and now slide stop and be able to use the one gun for three calibers...

Colt Delta Elite's are cool and all, but they're almost as much used as a new kimber would be... almost.

I've heard some bad things about kimber, having a bad run back in the day... but the one I have is by far the most accurate pistol I've ever shot, and I've never had a jam with it, even with my reloads.... well so long as you don't count the 22 conversion kit....

I think I'm really leaning toward a Kimber in 10mm. Too bad they don't make a .40, I wonder if I could have Kimber's custom shop fit a .40 barrel to it before it shipped to me. I've heard all kimber pistols are 6 months out anyway...

Bill92869
08-08-2009, 1:49 PM
FYI I'll be posting for sale a 9mm Colt conversion kit tonight. It is a Colt original top end and 3 MecGar mags. Will fit a Colt combat commander with no mods or a full-size 1911 with the ejector swapped out. May be the way to go?

B Strong
08-08-2009, 1:51 PM
I'd look for something in.38 Super.

Great round, lighter recoil, flatter shooting than anything other than 9 x 23 in the 1911.

B Strong
08-08-2009, 1:56 PM
#1 - Try CCI mini mag solids. They've run 100% in my Kimber conversion kit on a TLE/RLII.

#2 - I have a Kimber Tactical Pro that I bought last year that has never gone through more than 80 rounds w/o a failure to feed. Having Kimber "repair" the piece did -0-. My other two Kimbers run 100% They define the term "hit or miss."

#3 - I believe that they can't ship you anything new that's not on the safe gun roster - you can ship it back to them after DROS etc. and they can do anything you want that they'll agree to do.

Damn, my lil brother used the live in Pasadena, he's now in Long Beach, but Yea, I'm in the bay area and he's broke, so damn, wish I could manage to get that gun at Turners. Do you remember how much they had it for?

Randy - Thanks for doing the leg work. I was thinking about flipping through the giant Brownells catalog for parts and pricing it out... I figured I could put something together for around that price... I'd love to just get a bunch of used parts and piece it together... maybe in time...

Sholling - I have a Kimber .22 conversion for my 1911, but I havn't spent the time to find some ammo that works it reliably. The Federal Bulk I have doesn't seem to work well in it and rimfire is so hard to find these days. I've tried some Remington Bulk Gold Dot and that seemed to work, but I havn't see that on the shelves in forever.

The reason I'm thinking 9mm is that I like the kimber I shot and just bought a bunch of 9mm mags used on another forum so I'm already started on the road here :)

Nosmatt - Yes you're right the 10mm wouldn't be cheap. I reload so It'd just be a matter of getting brass and then I can load the same bullets I currently have to load my .40 S&W. I've been curious about the 10mm for some time, I've read about how accurate the round inherently is and my dad has a Colt Delta Elite that I've shot... but I like my kimber better, just all the custom bells and whistles that they put on their guns these days. The idea behind the 10mm would be to get a .40 S&W barrel and have it fit, and then maybe just get a 9mm barrel and now slide stop and be able to use the one gun for three calibers...

Colt Delta Elite's are cool and all, but they're almost as much used as a new kimber would be... almost.

I've heard some bad things about kimber, having a bad run back in the day... but the one I have is by far the most accurate pistol I've ever shot, and I've never had a jam with it, even with my reloads.... well so long as you don't count the 22 conversion kit....

I think I'm really leaning toward a Kimber in 10mm. Too bad they don't make a .40, I wonder if I could have Kimber's custom shop fit a .40 barrel to it before it shipped to me. I've heard all kimber pistols are 6 months out anyway...

BillCA
08-08-2009, 2:06 PM
Or you could find a nice Colt 9mm Combat Commander being sold by someone to raise money.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/BillCA/Hobby/1911/CMDR9_2S_1122.jpg
If you reload, .38 Super is another very good cartridge and highly underrated today.

wildhawker
08-08-2009, 2:11 PM
I don't own any, but the .22 conversions I've shot have had zero issues using the CCIs. Can't say that for bulk.

#1 - Try CCI mini mag solids. They've run 100% in my Kimber conversion kit on a TLE/RLII.

#2 - I have a Kimber Tactical Pro that I bought last year that has never gone through more than 80 rounds w/o a failure to feed. Having Kimber "repair" the piece did -0-. My other two Kimbers run 100% They define the term "hit or miss."

#3 - I believe that they can't ship you anything new that's not on the safe gun roster - you can ship it back to them after DROS etc. and they can do anything you want that they'll agree to do.

MustangGreg66
08-08-2009, 4:56 PM
Bill - That'll be interesting to see, I'll look forward to taking a peek :)

B Strong - 38 super sounds like a great round. I've done some reading on it and think it's pretty cool. I've seen some of the guys at the range shoot it in USPSA where it's prettymuch dominant... or was until they started 9mm major... The reason I've been focused on 9mm and 40 tho is that I've got buckets of brass just waiting to be loaded. I can't say that about 38 super. Also, I have reloading dies for the others but not 38 super...

I've heard countless people praise the CCI Mini-Mag as making .22 autoloaders that are finiky about ammo function 100%. Maybe I've finally got to bite the bullet so to speak and buy some. They're quite a bit more than the bulk stuff, but maybe that's the price to pay for reliability. Guess I'll start looking.... I've got some CCI Standard velocity lead RN, but I havn't really tested it through the kimber yet...

As for #3, I've heard that before, that they can't add anything to the gun that would make it diffrent from a gun on the list... but if I order a 10mm from Kimber, which is on the list, could I have the other barrels fit and shipped with the gun so that I wouldn't have to ship back to them? Maybe I'll have to call them on monday and ask...

DarkHorse
08-08-2009, 5:33 PM
Have you tried making lighter loads for your .45?

I think you're only supposed to use jacketed high-velocity in the Kimber .22 kit.

SNEAKS
08-08-2009, 5:38 PM
I have a Springfield Loaded target model and love it. I have had no problems with it and is easy on the recoil. The mags made by Wilson have worked fine for me. It is also the easiest slide to rack back I have ever handled, great for the girlfriend or wife.

yasushi
08-08-2009, 6:18 PM
I love 1911's and I mainly been shooting my Kimber Rimfire along with Kimber 9mm. As you may have already heard, Rimfire is bit pickey on the ammo and 9mm extractor problems are well documented.

I bought both from a fellow member who sold them due to FTF and FTE issues. After I picked them up, they both were massaged by the gunsmith to correct the problems. Rimfire Super had FTF issue and needed the ramp cleaned and polished and 9mm Stainless Target needed a major tuning (extractor, springs, throat/ramp) to get the FTE problems resolved.

Now they both run without any issues and eats any ammo. If you do decide on the Kimber 9mm, make sure you get a chance to shoot it before you put your money down. Or at least know and prepare for the potential problems.

On the other hand, my Kimber in 45acp has been great from a day one.

redcliff
08-08-2009, 7:04 PM
My Kimber 9mm Stainless Target would not extract when I first fired it after picking it up new. It took all of 5 minutes to put more tension on the extractor and its been flawless since.

I have 1911's in .22lr, 38 super, 9mm and .45 acp. But the 9mm is hard to beat for fun.

BHPFan
08-08-2009, 7:12 PM
Damn, my lil brother used the live in Pasadena, he's now in Long Beach, but Yea, I'm in the bay area and he's broke, so damn, wish I could manage to get that gun at Turners. Do you remember how much they had it for?

Randy - Thanks for doing the leg work. I was thinking about flipping through the giant Brownells catalog for parts and pricing it out... I figured I could put something together for around that price... I'd love to just get a bunch of used parts and piece it together... maybe in time...

Sholling - I have a Kimber .22 conversion for my 1911, but I havn't spent the time to find some ammo that works it reliably. The Federal Bulk I have doesn't seem to work well in it and rimfire is so hard to find these days. I've tried some Remington Bulk Gold Dot and that seemed to work, but I havn't see that on the shelves in forever.

The reason I'm thinking 9mm is that I like the kimber I shot and just bought a bunch of 9mm mags used on another forum so I'm already started on the road here :)

Nosmatt - Yes you're right the 10mm wouldn't be cheap. I reload so It'd just be a matter of getting brass and then I can load the same bullets I currently have to load my .40 S&W. I've been curious about the 10mm for some time, I've read about how accurate the round inherently is and my dad has a Colt Delta Elite that I've shot... but I like my kimber better, just all the custom bells and whistles that they put on their guns these days. The idea behind the 10mm would be to get a .40 S&W barrel and have it fit, and then maybe just get a 9mm barrel and now slide stop and be able to use the one gun for three calibers...

Colt Delta Elite's are cool and all, but they're almost as much used as a new kimber would be... almost.

I've heard some bad things about kimber, having a bad run back in the day... but the one I have is by far the most accurate pistol I've ever shot, and I've never had a jam with it, even with my reloads.... well so long as you don't count the 22 conversion kit....

I think I'm really leaning toward a Kimber in 10mm. Too bad they don't make a .40, I wonder if I could have Kimber's custom shop fit a .40 barrel to it before it shipped to me. I've heard all kimber pistols are 6 months out anyway...

I apologize for the late reply. I think they were selling them for around $700

MustangGreg66
08-08-2009, 7:34 PM
I apologize for the late reply. I think they were selling them for around $700

Wow, that's awsome. Could I buy it from them and have them ship it or would it have to be on the roster to ship it? It's already in CA so I'd think shipping would be ok... am I wrong?

Bill92869
08-08-2009, 11:11 PM
Just posted my original Colt upper for anyone that wants to convert their .45
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=2893649#post2893649

gunboat
08-08-2009, 11:15 PM
Take a look at the 38/45, basically only requires a barrel for conversion --And a forming die --

cmace22
08-08-2009, 11:40 PM
My next two 1911 are both going to be Caspian builds, one a government ionbonded and the other a two tone 9mm commander.

I say go 9mm if its just gonna be a range gun.

MustangGreg66
08-09-2009, 1:11 AM
Hmm, I've never heard of a 38/45... I've heard of the 400 corbon, but never really looked too far into it. Looking on the internet I found midsouth lists the 400 corbon dies, but closest I could find to a 38/45 is a 38 Super ACP, the only thing I've heard called ACP is the 45, is that the round?

I guess I'll have to look into those rounds too, a conversion barrel and dies would be a lot cheaper than another gun or two and fit barrels... I'm not sure if I could get a 38/45 or 400 corbon to shoot as soft as a 9mm or 40 since they were made with the intention of shooting hotter...

Fantasma
08-09-2009, 10:19 AM
People that love .45 in their 1911's... Also love a nice .38 super, try it out one day with full power .38 super rounds, you will fall in love.

gunboat
08-09-2009, 12:33 PM
The 38/45 acp is shown in "Howells Custom Cartridges" page 305 - I am sure it has been written up elsewhere as well - I think it is also know as the 38/45 Clerke - Cartridge is made by running new 45acp brass into forming die, and as I understand no mag or slide change is needed - while I have the die I have never experimented with it so have no real knowledge of its performance -- my ha-penny

Bill of Ojai
08-09-2009, 12:40 PM
I understand that converting a .38 Super to 9mm is the easiest switcheroo. Just need a barrel and the same magazines work for both.

Had a 9mm Kimber Target with no problems but sold it. Like .45 better and felt there are smaller, lighter guns for the 9mm. Now have a CZ P-01 and love it.

BillCA
08-09-2009, 11:47 PM
The 1911 has come in many flavors.
.22 Caliber - complete or with an ACE or other conversion unit.
.30 Mauser/Luger - custom build, neat toy.
.38 Super - Since around 1928, very good performance.
9mm Luger - Of course
9x23mm - as a custom performance cartridge
.40 S&W
.400 Corbon
.41 Action Express
10 mm - Colt's Delta Elite comes to mind
.45 ACP
.45 Super Auto
.500 GI - another custom cartridge

And probably a few I've missed.
9mm makes the most sense for the budget minded. It allows shooting "cheaper" ammo (eventually) and it is still considered a major power cartridge for self-defense (unlike a .22LR conversion).

If you already reload for 9mm, the .38 Super is the way to go if you want "another" caliber. Bullets for the .38 Super are .355" (9mm) and will work in either. The .38 Super pushes the 9mm bullet out around 100-170 fps faster than standard 9mm ammo. (1200-1300 fps).

audiophil2
08-10-2009, 9:10 PM
I'm trying not to threadjack but does anyone know how reliable the Para P18 9mm is? I'm thinking of going with this or a HK USP9 with funnel kit.

coltguy
08-11-2009, 4:03 PM
Does anyone know if I can convert a 1911 in 10mm to 9mm with just a drop in barrel and bushing change?

MustangGreg66
08-11-2009, 4:37 PM
Does anyone know if I can convert a 1911 in 10mm to 9mm with just a drop in barrel and bushing change?

That was my next question since I've been leaning toward a Kimber Stainless Target in 10mm... from what I've read on here I'd think the 9mm might need a modified slide release/slide stop so that it catches the follower in 9mm mags


Bill of Ojai

I understand that converting a .38 Super to 9mm is the easiest switcheroo. Just need a barrel and the same magazines work for both

I just bought some springfield 9mm mags, does that mean that those will work for the 39super? I'll have to take a look but I think the front of the mags are dimpled to shorten the inside for 9mm.

BillCA - great summary there of the 1911 calibers. For the 38super I'd have to get new dies right, I couldn't just use my 9mm dies? I'm not really looking to get into another cartridge, expecially since that brass is more spendy and less available, but I was just wondering.

BillCA
08-11-2009, 11:39 PM
Greg,

Yes, you'll need .38 Super dies as the case is longer. And a shell holder because the rim diameter is .01" larger too.

MustangGreg66
10-10-2009, 5:07 PM
So I'm bringing this topic back to life here with some specific questions for those in the know.

I'm buying a Springfield Armory stinaless 1911 in 9mm so now I'm thinking of converting that up to a 40 S&W. I know SA makes 1911s in 9 and 40, what's the diffrence in the guns? Is the slide the same or breech face cut diffrent? What would I need beyond a barrel/bushing to convert the SA 9mm to shoot 40S&W?