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deadkennedys
08-07-2009, 6:42 PM
If I was caught with a 14 round mag for my Sig 229 in California, what would be the fine or penalty? And can they take my firearm? Thanks.

Quiet
08-07-2009, 6:45 PM
Possession of a large capacity magazine is not a crime.

If you owned the large capacity magazine in CA before 01-01-2000, then it is 100% legal.

The state must prove when you owned the large capacity magazine.

hawk1
08-07-2009, 6:45 PM
20 to life...


















































:D

evidens83
08-07-2009, 6:50 PM
They will take your firearm away from you and force feed ALL 14 bullets in your mouth!










Not.

B Strong
08-07-2009, 6:55 PM
If you didn't own one before 2000, forget about it.

If I was caught with a 14 round mag for my Sig 229 in California, what would be the fine or penalty? And can they take my firearm? Thanks.

flatovercrest
08-07-2009, 6:55 PM
If you owned the large capacity magazine in CA before 01-01-2000, then it is 100% legal..

Very gray area..I may have bought the magazine cash from someone before 1/1/00 and before I owned the gun in question (the gun the magazine is for).
Interesting topic.

B Strong
08-07-2009, 6:58 PM
Not gray at all.

If you owned it, it's legal.

The authorities would have to prove that the magazine in question was not in California prior to 1-1-2000.

Silence is always your friend.

Very gray area..I may have bought the magazine cash from someone before 1/1/00 and before I owned the gun in question (the gun the magazine is for).
Interesting topic.

armygunsmith
08-07-2009, 7:09 PM
Like said above, keep your pie hole shut. The burden of proof is on them.

Quiet
08-07-2009, 7:15 PM
Very gray area..I may have bought the magazine cash from someone before 1/1/00 and before I owned the gun in question (the gun the magazine is for).
Interesting topic.

How is it gray?

Letter of the law says it's legal.


Penal Code 12020
(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(19) The sale of, giving of, lending of, importation into this state of, or purchase of, any large-capacity magazine to or by any federal, state, county, city and county, or city agency that is charged with the enforcement of any law, for use by agency employees in the discharge of their official duties whether on or off duty, and where the use is authorized by the agency and is within the course and scope of their duties.
(20) The sale to, lending to, transfer to, purchase by, receipt of, or importation into this state of, a large capacity magazine by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.
(21) The sale or purchase of any large-capacity magazine to or by a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071.
(22) The loan of a lawfully possessed large-capacity magazine between two individuals if all of the following conditions are met:
(A) The person being loaned the large-capacity magazine is not prohibited by Section 12021, 12021.1, or 12101 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code from possessing firearms or ammunition.
(B) The loan of the large-capacity magazine occurs at a place or location where the possession of the large-capacity magazine is not otherwise prohibited and the person who lends the large-capacity magazine remains in the accessible vicinity of the person to whom the large-capacity magazine is loaned.
(23) The importation of a large-capacity magazine by a person who lawfully possessed the large-capacity magazine in the state prior to January 1, 2000, lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning to the state with the large-capacity magazine previously lawfully possessed in the state.
(24) The lending or giving of any large-capacity magazine to a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071, or to a gunsmith, for the purposes of maintenance, repair, or modification of that large-capacity magazine.
(25) The return to its owner of any large-capacity magazine by a person specified in paragraph (24).
(26) The importation into this state of, or sale of, any large-capacity magazine by a person who has been issued a permit to engage in those activities pursuant to Section 12079, when those activities are in accordance with the terms and conditions of that permit.
(27) The sale of, giving of, lending of, importation into this state of, or purchase of, any large-capacity magazine, to or by entities that operate armored vehicle businesses pursuant to the laws of this state.
(28) The lending of large-capacity magazines by the entities specified in paragraph (27) to their authorized employees, while in the course and scope of their employment for purposes that pertain to the entity's armored vehicle business.
(29) The return of those large-capacity magazines to those entities specified in paragraph (27) by those employees specified in paragraph (28).
(30)(A) The manufacture of a large-capacity magazine for any federal, state, county, city and county, or city agency that is charged with the enforcement of any law, for use by agency employees in the discharge of their official duties whether on or off duty, and where the use is authorized by the agency and is within the course and scope of their duties.
(B) The manufacture of a large-capacity magazine for use by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.
(C) The manufacture of a large-capacity magazine for export or for sale to government agencies or the military pursuant to applicable federal regulations.
(31) The loan of a large-capacity magazine for use solely as a prop for a motion picture, television, or video production.
(32) The purchase of a large-capacity magazine by the holder of a special weapons permit issued pursuant to Section 12095, 12230, 12250, 12286, or 12305, for any of the following purposes:
(A) For use solely as a prop for a motion picture, television, or video production.
(B) For export pursuant to federal regulations.
(C) For resale to law enforcement agencies, government agencies, or the military, pursuant to applicable federal regulations.
(c)(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

vmwerks
08-07-2009, 7:22 PM
Buy a revolver, if you can't get the job done with 6 rounds give up shooting.. :)

Shane916
08-07-2009, 7:28 PM
Very gray area..I may have bought the magazine cash from someone before 1/1/00 and before I owned the gun in question (the gun the magazine is for).
Interesting topic.

Truly a perplexing and intriguing situation!

A problem and an inquiry to such that has never been discussed on CalGuns before.

Truly groundbreaking.

QuarterBoreGunner
08-07-2009, 8:44 PM
Why are we still talking about this?

We have FAQs and the the wiki and lord knows what else. Why is it still easier for a person to ask a question than do some simple research?...



And to the OP.. straight to jail. And your family. And your pets. All to jail.

deadkennedys
08-07-2009, 8:55 PM
Why are we still talking about this?

We have FAQs and the the wiki and lord knows what else. Why is it still easier for a person to ask a question than do some simple research?...



And to the OP.. straight to jail. And your family. And your pets. All to jail.I did do some reasearch and found nothing about a fine/penalty. My father had a P229 in about 1998. I had bought the 14 round mag in New Jersey being I shot it a lot around the same time (with cash). Ive been in CA for about 7 years now, not previous to 2000 before the ban. I was wondering if I was legally allowed to have it since it was purchased before the CA ban. In Jersey you can still have them. I guess Ill call the local sheriffs office and see what they have to say about it. Ill post back with their reply. Thanks for the feedback.

QuarterBoreGunner
08-07-2009, 8:59 PM
*sigh*

CalNRA
08-07-2009, 9:02 PM
Truly groundbreaking.
:rofl:

CRTguns
08-07-2009, 9:03 PM
in the California Assault Weapons ID guide... page 74, (page 84 on .pdf) right in the middle.

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/awguide.pdf

Possession is NOT controlled- peace officer OR private citizen. If yoiu have teh mag you can have the mag... you just cannot legally GET the mag nor can you GIVE, SELL, MAKE, IMPORT, OFFER, or therwise FURNISH the mag. NOthing says you cannot HAVE the magazine.

Blue
08-07-2009, 9:03 PM
I did do some reasearch and found nothing about a fine/penalty. My father had a P229 in about 1998. I had bought the 14 round mag in New Jersey being I shot it a lot around the same time (with cash). Ive been in CA for about 7 years now, not previous to 2000 before the ban. I was wondering if I was legally allowed to have it since it was purchased before the CA ban. In Jersey you can still have them. I guess Ill call the local sheriffs office and see what they have to say about it. Ill post back with their reply. Thanks for the feedback.

Sorry bro, you're SOL.

p7m8jg
08-07-2009, 9:05 PM
+1 to those who say its not illegal if you've owned it since the law was enacted.....possession alone is not illegal.

+1 also to those who say the burden of proof is on the prosecution - proof beyond a reasonable doubt that you obtained it since the year 2000.

Librarian
08-07-2009, 9:07 PM
I did do some reasearch and found nothing about a fine/penalty. My father had a P229 in about 1998. I had bought the 14 round mag in New Jersey being I shot it a lot around the same time (with cash). Ive been in CA for about 7 years now, not previous to 2000 before the ban. I was wondering if I was legally allowed to have it since it was purchased before the CA ban. In Jersey you can still have them. I guess Ill call the local sheriffs office and see what they have to say about it. Ill post back with their reply. Thanks for the feedback.

Probably worst place you could ask, saving only an average gun shop.

See http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/What_about_MAGAZINES%3F

deadkennedys
08-07-2009, 9:08 PM
Sorry bro, you're SOL.Ya. Nevada looks nicer and nicer everyday.

Blue
08-07-2009, 9:10 PM
Ya. Nevada looks nicer and nicer everyday.

Tell me about it. But, maybe someday stickin around and spreadin the word will work out for us. California is a MUCH friendlier state since the "Calguns/10% revolution".

deadkennedys
08-07-2009, 9:13 PM
Probably worst place you could ask, saving only an average gun shop.

See http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/What_about_MAGAZINES%3F"If you bought them, manufactured them, or brought them into California for the first time after that date, they are illegal.".......thats me. Ill stick with the 10 round mags and save the possible headache. Thanks.

MustangGreg66
08-07-2009, 11:30 PM
I didn't know we had a wiki on here, that's cool :D

Quiet
08-08-2009, 12:23 AM
I did do some reasearch and found nothing about a fine/penalty. My father had a P229 in about 1998. I had bought the 14 round mag in New Jersey being I shot it a lot around the same time (with cash). Ive been in CA for about 7 years now, not previous to 2000 before the ban. I was wondering if I was legally allowed to have it since it was purchased before the CA ban. In Jersey you can still have them. I guess Ill call the local sheriffs office and see what they have to say about it. Ill post back with their reply. Thanks for the feedback.

If you brought that magazine into CA, you are guility of importing a large capacity magazine into CA after 01-01-2000.

Penal Code 12020
(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.

Mssr. Eleganté
08-08-2009, 12:32 AM
If you brought that magazine into CA, you are guility of importing a large capacity magazine into CA after 01-01-2000..

Yeah, but he brought it in 7 years ago, so the statue of liberty ran out 4 years ago.

Blue
08-08-2009, 12:34 AM
Yeah, but he brought it in 7 years ago, so the statue of liberty ran out 4 years ago.

:rofl2: for reals? So is he in the clear then? :rofl2:

ETA Statue of Liberty?? WTF?? :rofl2:

CABilly
08-08-2009, 12:47 AM
Yeah, but he brought it in 7 years ago, so the statue of liberty ran out 4 years ago.

The French wooed her back, did they?

:rofl2:

Blue
08-08-2009, 12:50 AM
The French wooed her back, did they?

:rofl2:

That right there is some funny stuff man :rofl2:

Scratch705
08-08-2009, 1:17 AM
so op got lucky... since he did break the law, but since it has pass the 3 year mark for the statue of limitations for possession charge, he is now in the clear.

although i wouldn't go around and talk details about how you got the magazine...

Mssr. Eleganté
08-08-2009, 1:28 AM
...but since it has pass the 3 year mark for the statue of limitations for possession charge, he is now in the clear.

The statue of liberty and the statue of limitations are my two favorite statues. I am always mixing them up, just like "a legal magazine" and "illegal magazine".

http://www.type03.net/novelty-pics/escapegoat.jpg

CABilly
08-08-2009, 1:30 AM
So what is the statue of limitations?

Is it these guys?
http://www.xenocorp.net/H_bardCorner/images/mpfotr14_01.jpg

























I'm thinking something more like this.
http://images1.makefive.com/images/200823/2317918d0ed54d0a.jpg

CABilly
08-08-2009, 1:35 AM
Their illegal. But since the statue of libertations has run out, your in the clear. Irregardless, you could wind up in some trouble because the police could care less about taking them pending an investigation. And even though your in the clear, you might have a hard time getting them back since you still obtained them illegally. So for all intensive purposes, if asked just say you legally own them and it should be a mute point. Supposably that should be enough. Needless to say, the less you say the better off you are.

saki302
08-08-2009, 1:45 AM
According to the letter of the law, importation, manufacturing, or any activity related to selling is illegal. They don't mention buying directly (I know it's been discussed before).

Here's the hypothetical question along those lines- say you buy a mag for your XXX at a local gun show thinking it's a 10 rounder only to discover later it holds 12. Do you keep, destroy, or ???
Assume you cannot locate the seller ever again.

-Dave

Mssr. Eleganté
08-08-2009, 1:48 AM
Here's the hypothetical question along those lines- say you buy a mag for your XXX at a local gun show thinking it's a 10 rounder only to discover later it holds 12. Do you keep, destroy, or ???
Assume you cannot locate the seller ever again.

Why would you do anything except for keep it? What criminal charge would you be concerned with? Manufacturing? Importing? Selling? Please explain.

walter
08-08-2009, 2:09 AM
I did do some reasearch and found nothing about a fine/penalty. My father had a P229 in about 1998. I had bought the 14 round mag in New Jersey being I shot it a lot around the same time (with cash). Ive been in CA for about 7 years now, not previous to 2000 before the ban. I was wondering if I was legally allowed to have it since it was purchased before the CA ban. In Jersey you can still have them. I guess Ill call the local sheriffs office and see what they have to say about it. Ill post back with their reply. Thanks for the feedback.

how bout you stop being a little wuss. if you were 21 on 12/31/99 then just say you bought it on that day or before. there's no one anyone can prove otherwise.

Scratch705
08-08-2009, 2:25 AM
don't even have to be 21 to purchase a pistol magazines. there are a few calgunners here that purchased pre-ban magazines when they were in their teens.

you just have been born before the ban took place and you can legally have pre-ban magazines.

johnthomas
08-08-2009, 2:27 AM
Truly a perplexing and intriguing situation!

A problem and an inquiry to such that has never been discussed on CalGuns before.

Truly groundbreaking.

Why the sarcastic remarks? The man had a question, he came to Calgun for help.

nativeofsandiego
08-08-2009, 2:47 AM
So this probably has been ask also... What if you have an above 10 round magazine in California that you did not own prior to the year 2000?

CABilly
08-08-2009, 2:53 AM
So this probably has been ask also... What if you have an above 10 round magazine in California that you did not own prior to the year 2000?

Were you in possession of it in CA prior to the ban?

Mssr. Eleganté
08-08-2009, 2:54 AM
So this probably has been ask also... What if you have an above 10 round magazine in California that you did not own prior to the year 2000?

What if?

What do you mean "what if?"

You may have broken the law. You may not have broken the law. If you did break the law, the statute of limitations may or may not have run out.

Librarian
08-08-2009, 2:54 AM
So this probably has been ask also... What if you have an above 10 round magazine in California that you did not own prior to the year 2000?

Yes.

See the FAQ http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/What_about_MAGAZINES%3F

johnthomas
08-08-2009, 2:57 AM
So this probably has been ask also... What if you have an above 10 round magazine in California that you did not own prior to the year 2000?

Go to the first page in this thread and read the regulation that "Quiet" posted.
The law says you are wrong.

Mssr. Eleganté
08-08-2009, 3:20 AM
If he did not own it prior to Jan 1 2000, I wouldn't think he was in possession of it.

California law does not require for you to have owned a large-capacity magazine inside California before the ban in order to legally import it after the ban. The law only requires for you to have possessed it within California before the ban.


CPC 12020(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following...

(23) The importation of a large-capacity magazine by a person who lawfully possessed the large-capacity magazine in the state prior to January 1, 2000, lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning to the state with the large-capacity magazine previously lawfully possessed in the state.

CABilly
08-08-2009, 3:37 AM
Darn. I thought I'd read somewhere in the PC about hi-caps being banned unless otherwise possessed prior to 1/1/00. I can't find it now, nevermind.

HkFan416
08-08-2009, 5:42 AM
Very gray area..I may have bought the magazine cash from someone before 1/1/00 and before I owned the gun in question (the gun the magazine is for).
Interesting topic.

Get outta here with that garbage. No gray area, possession is not illegal, but spreading garbage and fud should be.

EDIT - Just found out spreading garbage is illegal, AKA littering

Z ME FLY
08-08-2009, 8:36 AM
don't even have to be 21 to purchase a pistol magazines. there are a few calgunners here that purchased pre-ban magazines when they were in their teens.

you just have been born before the ban took place and you can legally have pre-ban magazines.

yup like me! think I was 13 or 14 at the time, looking online for glock 33 rd mags. Found some, put them away, and finally found them recently :) Yes even if it is legal for me to have I use a lot caution about even shooting with them.

Z ME FLY
08-08-2009, 8:40 AM
Can someone please explain to me why people keep on talking about statute of limitations? If you broke the law and get caught, man up you broke the law. How does this apply with the hi cap ban? Because someone "acquired" a hicap mag after 2000 the gov has 3 or 4 years to bust you and after that you are in the clear? IDK if that is right, that seems wrong and not possible. Someone clear it up for me thanks.

cineski
08-08-2009, 8:45 AM
Hopefully it's not an XDm magazine ;-)

HkFan416
08-08-2009, 9:14 AM
Can someone please explain to me why people keep on talking about statute of limitations? If you broke the law and get caught, man up you broke the law. How does this apply with the hi cap ban? Because someone "acquired" a hicap mag after 2000 the gov has 3 or 4 years to bust you and after that you are in the clear? IDK if that is right, that seems wrong and not possible. Someone clear it up for me thanks.

Yea Hoffmang was talkiing about that somewhere. Do a search with his screen name with a tag of statute of limitations, should pop up on here.

Librarian
08-08-2009, 10:17 AM
Can someone please explain to me why people keep on talking about statute of limitations? If you broke the law and get caught, man up you broke the law. How does this apply with the hi cap ban? Because someone "acquired" a hicap mag after 2000 the gov has 3 or 4 years to bust you and after that you are in the clear? IDK if that is right, that seems wrong and not possible. Someone clear it up for me thanks.

You understand correctly - statute of limitations is a limitation on a government's ability to prosecute for a crime, based on timeliness.

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
or in the state prison and
801. Except as provided in Sections 799 and 800, prosecution for an
offense punishable by imprisonment in the state prison shall be
commenced within three years after commission of the offense.


It's not a good idea to rely on the statute of limitations as an escape.

But again, possession and use of large-capacity magazines are not criminal acts. For prosecution to be successful, prosecutors would have to prove one of the illegal acts - manufacture, sale, import - had occurred; the possessor is not obligated to prove the opposite.

(Take the hint people! If all of you would never ask about this stuff in public, no one would ever have any reason to be concerned about this!)

nativeofsandiego
08-08-2009, 11:24 AM
(Take the hint people! If all of you would never ask about this stuff in public, no one would ever have any reason to be concerned about this!)

Well said...

ck867
08-08-2009, 11:36 AM
this is probably one of the funnier threads I have read in a while...lol. I can't get over the statute of "liberty"

Z ME FLY
08-08-2009, 12:02 PM
It's not a good idea to rely on the statute of limitations as an escape.

But again, possession and use of large-capacity magazines are not criminal acts. For prosecution to be successful, prosecutors would have to prove one of the illegal acts - manufacture, sale, import - had occurred; the possessor is not obligated to prove the opposite.

(Take the hint people! If all of you would never ask about this stuff in public, no one would ever have any reason to be concerned about this!)

Thanks! I am glad I got my 30 round mags but I am honestly kind of scared to use them. Too many questions that may be asked for the extra rounds. Maybe when I am out camping, I'll bring one but at the range, there isn't a point.

People who play the statute of limitations game is just asking for trouble. You are breaking the law and you know it but you hope of the statute of limitations to free you.

johnthomas
08-08-2009, 12:09 PM
My main concern is drawing unwanted attention to myself. What is the point, really? If your mag is taken from you, I am sure they will take the gun and do an investigation on everything you own. But, your risk, your choice.
My question is this, everyone here that is saying, ya, go ahead, you all own high cap mags and bring them to a public range?

Z ME FLY
08-08-2009, 12:33 PM
My main concern is drawing unwanted attention to myself. What is the point, really? If your mag is taken from you, I am sure they will take the gun and do an investigation on everything you own. But, your risk, your choice.
My question is this, everyone here that is saying, ya, go ahead, you all own high cap mags and bring them to a public range?

Nope I don't bring them to the range. Read my post above. No need for the attention of a big *** mag sticking out of my glock.

Uxi
08-08-2009, 12:38 PM
When did PMAG's first get released?

So what is the statue of limitations?

Is it these guys?
http://www.xenocorp.net/H_bardCorner/images/mpfotr14_01.jpg


ROFL.

Z ME FLY
08-08-2009, 12:41 PM
When did PMAG's first get released?



ROFL.

LOL If you ask... we all know you don't have it

Good one Uxi

Lancear15
08-08-2009, 12:46 PM
Truly a perplexing and intriguing situation!

A problem and an inquiry to such that has never been discussed on CalGuns before.

Truly groundbreaking.

^ Jaded by years of the same questions being asked...

You would think someone would gather up all these topics and put post the legalities in a conspicuous spot on the site so the non stop same questions would stop. maybe some day.

B Strong
08-08-2009, 1:01 PM
The French wooed her back, did they?

:rofl2:

She rolled her eyes, the French surrendered.

Librarian
08-08-2009, 2:11 PM
^ Jaded by years of the same questions being asked...

You would think someone would gather up all these topics and put post the legalities in a conspicuous spot on the site so the non stop same questions would stop. maybe some day.

Speaking of jaded ... :rolleyes:

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions

Acorn556
08-08-2009, 2:43 PM
free room and board for 20 to life.
shower rapes
strip searches.


Your call man. I'd bring it here if I were you....then I have one more oppertunity to buy a gun since you won't be able to. :)

Lancear15
08-08-2009, 3:54 PM
Speaking of jaded ... :rolleyes:

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions

I said conspicuous ;) like having the FAQ button take you straight to that page instead of what it does now.

johnthomas
08-08-2009, 10:23 PM
^ Jaded by years of the same questions being asked...

You would think someone would gather up all these topics and put post the legalities in a conspicuous spot on the site so the non stop same questions would stop. maybe some day.

The thing is, new people are signing on to calguns every day, many because they have a question. If their very first experience here is negative, what does that tell the new folks? Why go thru the effort to make someone feel like they came to the wrong place instead of just passing it by and let someone answer the question?

Sheepdog1968
08-08-2009, 11:19 PM
So how old were you nine years ago?

Blue
08-08-2009, 11:26 PM
If their very first experience here is negative, what does that tell the new folks?

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr96/jimbolian/red_dumbass.jpg
:p:p:p

Blue
08-08-2009, 11:28 PM
So how old were you nine years ago?

LOL that doesn't mean anything, I remember before OLL's got big I had a group of guy's in their 40's laughing and jeering at me with my Fab10. They all had matching AR's, and were mocking me telling me that I need to go to Reno just like they did to get a real gun.

Z ME FLY
08-09-2009, 11:14 AM
So how old were you nine years ago?

Why does that matter?

hawk81
08-09-2009, 2:23 PM
The burden of proof is on the arresting parties. Your good to go, as long as you don't self incriminate yourself.