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tomj44
08-07-2009, 3:07 PM
As a member of the Califonia Rifle and Pistol Association I would like to know why Dr Ignatius Piazza has been invited to the 135th Annual Fundraising Gala as a Keynote Speaker ? What about this lawsuit http://www.onpointnews.com/NEWS/firearms-qdisneylandq-fraud-case-settles-for-8m.html

DVSmith
08-07-2009, 3:18 PM
Just to be sure I went looking for confirmation. First, I can't find CRPA's website. Did I just miss it? But I did find this:

http://reynosawatch.org/minstrel/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/crpa-gala.jpg

I agree, What the heck??

B Strong
08-07-2009, 4:28 PM
My take on the Front Sight deal is that some folks didn't excercise caveat emptor in the first place ( I was offered in on the ground floor and passed) and in today's world the buyer is often not held to be responsible for their end of due diligence.

Piazza is certainly a snakeoil salesman, and he's guilty of that, but it's hard for me to believe that people bought into his line at the beginning and later on.

People listen to all sorts of folks that are less than savory ( North, Liddy, Clinton) so Piazza is working a well worn street.

I've trained at FS, and for that they're valuble, but Piazza should be selling used cars.


As a member of the Califonia Rifle and Pistol Association I would like to know why Dr Ignatius Piazza has been invited to the 135th Annual Fundraising Gala as a Keynote Speaker ? What about this lawsuit http://www.onpointnews.com/NEWS/firearms-qdisneylandq-fraud-case-settles-for-8m.html

tomj44
08-07-2009, 5:44 PM
I also have taken classes at Front Sight in Bakersfield, CA before the move to Nevada.Back then he had Chuck Taylor, Gabe Suarez and a few other SWAT type cops from Los Angles that did most of the training. Why don't they ask somebody like Gabe Suarez to come. He was a cop and has been in gunfights. His training is cutting edge.

QuarterBoreGunner
08-07-2009, 8:14 PM
Gabe Suarez has his own problems to deal with...

barrym66
08-07-2009, 9:22 PM
Why does this bother you?

Perhaps because Front Sight has trained more people in the last 10 years than any other training organization in the US?

Say what you will about his marketing style (I personally don't care for it), but Piazza and Front Sight have done all gun owners and 2A supporters a great service.

The training is excellent and compares well to other, similarly focused (i.e. practical shooting/self defense/introductory firearm training) schools - I've attended 3 FS classes over the last year, and have attended two other schools in the last 10 years as well, so I think I can comment fairly on FS.

Most, if not all of the FUD about Front Sight comes from those who have never attended a class and just jump on the "Internet expert opinion" bandwagon. :rolleyes:

BTW, that lawsuit you referenced was settled well over 2 1/2 years ago....while Piazza still has legal issues to deal with, some simple research will quickly show that they deal with his under-estimating the time and money required to execute his vision, and not that he intended to defraud anyone or create a Ponzi scheme. IMHO.




Barry

GW
08-09-2009, 3:53 PM
I have taken a number of classes at front Sight and they were excellent, well-run and safe. Naish dug himself a hole with FS Nevada but, I never felt he was out to cheat anyone. And he (FS) has trained more people than anyone else.
How is that a bad thing?

re Gabe Suarez Chuck Taylor et al, They tried a takeover of Front Sight back in '97 or '98. They failed.
As for Naish and Front Sight I have gotten my money's worth and would recommend the courses to anyone.

Dont Tread on Me
08-09-2009, 7:41 PM
I'd not shake hands with either Ignatius Piazza or Gabe Suarez. However, it seams both Front Sight and Suarez's company provided reasonably good training.

I was warming to the reborn CRPA but if Piazza is the type of character they're in bed with they won't get one cent from me.

Dean
08-14-2009, 5:27 PM
to build credibility within the firearms community would invite someone who will be proven over time to be nothing more then then "Madoff" of the firearms industry, to be one of their key note speakers or have anything to do at all with the likes of Mr. Piazza. His "bait and switch", snake oil selling, gross and misleading misrepresentations, failure to perform, lies, decent, deception, and other well known Scientology teachings and practices for which he admits to being "cleared" and that he freely acknowledges that FS uses the "Hubbard Bussiness Practices and teachings", is nothing short of something that will come back to bite the entire firearms industry and all those who believed in him and or support him and FS, hence the well known class action suit WON by all of the honest and good FIRST FAMILY MEMBERS AGAINST Piazza, though he has yet to hold up his end of the agreement with them.

Sure he'll tell you of the "thousands" of free clases he gave away, of this scam, sorry program, or that marketing program, to induce people to buy into something that he has personally told me he never intended to build, and to date has yet to, but that does NOT mean he or his SCIENTOLOGY teaching or practices are good for the firearms or any other industry for that matter.

IMHO the CRPA should retract their "invation" or they run the risk of boycott at the very least. And anyone who supports FS in any fashion, even taking clases from them is a form of support IMHO, deserves all that they get or in this case DON'T get from FS and Piazza as they have been warned numerous times and ways before by many many people.

I'm sure this posting will bring more death threats against me and my family from Piazza and his fellow Scientologist as has previously been the case and is well documented and it's my understanding that he as also threatened those who brought the initial FS Class Action suit against him. So be it. Oh and Naish, the trace is still on my phone so any more calls to me or my wife will be traced back to you or your Scientology buddies, male and female, and I WILL PROSOCUTE YOU AND THEM. Don't beleive me? TRY ME!

barrym66
08-14-2009, 6:14 PM
.......hence the well known class action suit WON by all of the honest and good FIRST FAMILY MEMBERS AGAINST Piazza, though he has yet to hold up his end of the agreement with them......

.... Oh and Naish, the trace is still on my phone so any more calls to me or my wife will be traced back to you or your Scientology buddies, male and female, and I WILL PROSOCUTE YOU AND THEM. Don't beleive me? TRY ME!

Dean, I've never met you, or Dr. Piazza for that matter, but in the interest of full disclosure for those who don't know your FS background (I didn't until I Googled your name and Front Sight), I'm posting the following statement you apparently released in settlement of the lawsuit you were involved in with FS:

From http://www.dianahsieh.com/scientology/ and http://www.dianahsieh.com/scientology/gamburd.2002.10.23.html

"Public Retraction

I fully retract all statements made against Ignatius Piazza and Front Sight
Firearms Training Institute. I must admit that I was misled or fooled by some
people circulating incorrect, incomplete and or misinformation. I apologize
for any concerns this may have caused. Please do not make the same mistake that I did.

In exchange for returning my 110,000 shares of Front Sight stock, forfeiting
my Bronze First Family Membership, and other valuable consideration provided, Front Sight has agreed to dismiss their lawsuit against me.

Front Sight is that which it claims to be. I fully support the Second
Amendment and those who also promote and support it. I strongly recommend you do the same.

Due to postings on the Internet by people unknown to me or by those who
without my knowledge, permission or consent, used my name or nicknames
posting items I did not author, a copy of my Notarized retraction is on file
at the Front Sight office.

Sincerly,

Dean Gamburd"

Gnzrme
08-15-2009, 8:23 AM
:grouphug: Can't we all just get along...Naish although doing some questionable things over at FS still has put firearms training on the radar and still continues to do so. He is still holding classes and created a TV show and keeps the 2A issue burning. That's more than what most of us do...And if CRPA wants to use him for a fund raiser, so be it...

CSDGuy
08-15-2009, 9:45 AM
Why does this bother you?

Perhaps because Front Sight has trained more people in the last 10 years than any other training organization in the US?

Say what you will about his marketing style (I personally don't care for it), but Piazza and Front Sight have done all gun owners and 2A supporters a great service.

The training is excellent and compares well to other, similarly focused (i.e. practical shooting/self defense/introductory firearm training) schools - I've attended 3 FS classes over the last year, and have attended two other schools in the last 10 years as well, so I think I can comment fairly on FS.

Most, if not all of the FUD about Front Sight comes from those who have never attended a class and just jump on the "Internet expert opinion" bandwagon. :rolleyes:

BTW, that lawsuit you referenced was settled well over 2 1/2 years ago....while Piazza still has legal issues to deal with, some simple research will quickly show that they deal with his under-estimating the time and money required to execute his vision, and not that he intended to defraud anyone or create a Ponzi scheme. IMHO.




Barry
Piazza LOST the lawsuit. Call it "settlement" if you want, but he lost. If he was keeping his word, Piazza and Front Sight wouldn't have gone into receivership. That was something done by the courts to enforce the terms of the settlement. I'm sure the training is good, but some simple research will also show that he hasn't been meeting his obligations to the prevailing party in the lawsuit. The settlement (at least two attempts at it) was very much in favor of the members of the class action. Since he wasn't doing what he was required to, all assets of Front Sight were seized and all financial transactions occur only under the direction of a court appointed receiver. That was dissolved about a week later. From a business perspective, I just don't trust someone who agreed to certain terms, wasn't meeting his obligations, and had to be forced into receivership to make him pay up.

I just read a news article that said that FS has gotten a deal with the Nye County for yet more development... over a 15 year term. That looks to me like FS could be starting up it's scheme all over again. I would be very suspicious about this based on past performance.

Dont Tread on Me
08-15-2009, 9:50 AM
There must be someone out there less polarizing than Piazza who CRPA could have invited.

AngelDecoys
08-15-2009, 10:19 AM
As a member of the Califonia Rifle and Pistol Association I would like to know why Dr Ignatius Piazza has been invited to the 135th Annual Fundraising Gala as a Keynote Speaker ? What about this lawsuit http://www.onpointnews.com/NEWS/firearms-qdisneylandq-fraud-case-settles-for-8m.html

Aside from the controversy he stirs up, he's rather a dynamic speaker. I've listened to him before on several occasions. He's rather entertaining in sharing his vision.

re Gabe Suarez Chuck Taylor et al, They tried a takeover of Front Sight back in '97 or '98. They failed.

Yup. Those guys wanted a purely profit focused organization. Naish wanted a purpose driven organization.

..... He is still holding classes and created a TV show and keeps the 2A issue burning. That's more than what most of us do.......

Yup. For all his faults, he's training more than all the rest put together.

I just read a news article that said that FS has gotten a deal with the Nye County for yet more development... over a 15 year term. That looks to me like FS could be starting up it's scheme all over again. I would be very suspicious about this based on past performance.

Yup. Be wary of promises. Doesn't cost a lot just to file for permits. While I'd love to see the place developed, I'll believe it when I see it. I bought my membership years ago back when Naish taught in Bakersfield. (Back when a bronze came with a pocket weight). If one is going to buy a membership, do it solely for the training aspect.

There must be someone out there less polarizing than Piazza who CRPA could have invited.

Yup. For that alone, i question the value of having him speak at the CRPA dinner. Anyway, if nothing else, I'm sure he'll be entertaining.