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eltee
08-06-2009, 11:09 PM
What was the reasoning behind getting a fingerprint on the back of a DROS worksheet? Is there an inkless method?

BillCA
08-06-2009, 11:13 PM
The "Inkless" method still has to create a thumbprint on the paper. There are some materials that will do this without leaving a lot of cramp on your finger, but they're more expensive than plain ink.

The purpose is to identify the buyer, should it come down to an allegation of someone using a stolen identity or a claim that "I didn't buy no such gun!" Kinda hard to dispute it when your own thumbprint is on the document.

nick
08-06-2009, 11:16 PM
Not sure about the reasoning (it's firearms laws, not sure it's even worth looking for one). As for the inkless method, there're several. One of the stores I go to has these stickers they put on the DROS, and the coating on those stickers is either activated by the heat, or reacts with fatty acids on your fingers.

nick
08-06-2009, 11:17 PM
The "Inkless" method still has to create a thumbprint on the paper. There are some materials that will do this without leaving a lot of cramp on your finger, but they're more expensive than plain ink.

The purpose is to identify the buyer, should it come down to an allegation of someone using a stolen identity or a claim that "I didn't buy no such gun!" Kinda hard to dispute it when your own thumbprint is on the document.

Unless one is into pottery :chris:

eltee
08-07-2009, 9:30 AM
Just wanted to see if there was a workaround using the inkless methods like we use in police work (but the paper is specially formulated on those forms). Some dealers do the right thumb, others the right index. Are both OK?

On a PPT, is the seller required? I don't think so, but I never saw anything in writing from DOJ about the prints on DROS forms (even after doing a search on the DOJ website).

kemasa
08-07-2009, 11:12 AM
The law states that it needs to be the right thumb, unless there is something which makes that impossible, like missing the thumb. It also states that it needs to be on the back and in black ink (below). I would be careful with anything else, although I have been told by others that their DOJ inspector said that on the front of the DROS was ok.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs.php#32G
32. Are firearms dealers required to capture the thumbprint on the DROS form for each firearm recipient?

Yes. The firearms dealer must require the firearm recipient to place his or her right thumbprint, in black ink, on the back of the DROS form. If the recipient is unable to comply, then the dealer should contact the DOJ at (916) 227-3703 for instructions.

(PC section 12077)

Shane916
08-07-2009, 11:14 AM
Just wanted to see if there was a workaround using the inkless methods like we use in police work (but the paper is specially formulated on those forms). Some dealers do the right thumb, others the right index. Are both OK?

On a PPT, is the seller required? I don't think so, but I never saw anything in writing from DOJ about the prints on DROS forms (even after doing a search on the DOJ website).

Has to be right thumb..unless they are lacking one.

Are firearms dealers required to capture the thumbprint on the DROS form for each firearm recipient?

Yes. The firearms dealer must require the firearm recipient to place his or her right thumbprint, in black ink, on the back of the DROS form. If the recipient is unable to comply, then the dealer should contact the DOJ at (916) 227-3703 for instructions.

(PC section 12077)

(2) Effective January 1, 2003, the purchaser shall provide his or
her right thumbprint on the register in a manner prescribed by the
department. No exception to this requirement shall be permitted
except by regulations adopted by the department.



Not sure about the legalities of a seller providing a thumbprint for a PPT. I have done many as the seller of the weapon and each time was required to provide a thumbprint.

kemasa
08-07-2009, 11:32 AM
Since the seller is not the recipient, it is not required, unless the buyer is denied and the seller becomes a recipient.

Matt@EntrepriseArms
08-10-2009, 12:33 PM
During the DROS process on a PPT, the seller is also checked to make sure they are not prohibited from owning a firearm. However, no requirement has been made (to my knowledge) that the seller needs to give a finger print.

BigDogatPlay
08-10-2009, 7:28 PM
The PPTs I've done most recently the FFL required the seller to provide thumbprint as well.

Probably better safe than sorry, I'd guess. Seems like a minor inconvenience when compared to the assortment of hoops, chutes and ladders we have to negotiate just to legally transfer in California, but that's just me.

tenpercentfirearms
08-11-2009, 10:09 AM
The point of the thumb print was to give solid proof that the person who claims to be picking up the firearm is actually that person. So in the super rare case that someone is not who they say they are, they can go back and prove with much better accuracy than the DL who actually picked up the firearm.

Of course on pick up or DROS day the thumbprint means nothing. It would only matter in a further investigation or an extremely thorough audit.

I have heard DOJ stories of the thumbprints on several DROS matching the dealer's thumb print because the FFL didn't realize they were supposed to have a thumb print until later. DOH!

Rudolf the Red
08-11-2009, 9:05 PM
My DROS forms have thumb prints all over them! It's hard to get people to give a usable print. Since I am not a fingerprint expert, I get one until the main whorl is clear enough. Some people try to smear it on purpose. Just anti-government types, I guess.

tenpercentfirearms
08-12-2009, 10:58 AM
My DROS forms have thumb prints all over them! It's hard to get people to give a usable print. Since I am not a fingerprint expert, I get one until the main whorl is clear enough. Some people try to smear it on purpose. Just anti-government types, I guess.

No one ever trained me how to take fingerprints. As long as I can see a print, I don't care what it looks like. Then again, I don't recall anyone smearing there's either.