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View Full Version : Just wondering legalities. Experienced people in ar's?


Charliegone
04-02-2005, 8:59 PM
Ok. So I am thinking about building an ar, but I am concerned about the legalities about getting a reciever forging. Is it ok to purchase a partial reciever (just the shell in other words) and place the necessary components to make it a "fixed magazine" ar or is that illegal? Theres the webpage I came across that sells these kind of recievers along with the fix mag kit. I'm kind of a newbie on building, so please enlighten me.

https://www.vbd.com/noc/shop/default.asp

Charliegone
04-02-2005, 8:59 PM
Ok. So I am thinking about building an ar, but I am concerned about the legalities about getting a reciever forging. Is it ok to purchase a partial reciever (just the shell in other words) and place the necessary components to make it a "fixed magazine" ar or is that illegal? Theres the webpage I came across that sells these kind of recievers along with the fix mag kit. I'm kind of a newbie on building, so please enlighten me.

https://www.vbd.com/noc/shop/default.asp

stealthmode
04-03-2005, 1:23 AM
if this is legal i would like to know also.

C.G.
04-03-2005, 9:21 AM
With an AR; you cannot buy a stripped lower and modify it, because AR is named as an assault weapon. You can, however, legally buy a FAB-10 lower or Vulcan Arms modified lower; see threads relating to that.

Rascal
04-03-2005, 11:52 AM
You can buy a 80% receiver and do the rest, but the magwell must be blocked, to prevent detatchable magazines and you must rivet the modified 10 round magazine in the magwell.

C.G.
04-03-2005, 3:42 PM
This topic has been covered in Interesting Discussion About "Detachable Mags" In CA from March 21.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

bwiese
04-03-2005, 6:50 PM
Charliegone,

I would just either get a FAB10 or Vulcan lower (I prefer FAB10 from what I know of things) 0 or the CA-approved GB-modified Bushmaster rifle.

Why people want to build problematic AR lowers from scratch that could be a violation of CA AW laws I dunno. It certainly isn't for cost reasons: by the time you get machine work done on a 80% lower you're already at $200 of yours or someone else's time, machine time, etc.

If you were starting from an 80% point you should NOT mill out the AR lower's mag well floor - if you do, you've essentially created an AR.

Bill W
San Jose

Charliegone
04-04-2005, 4:11 PM
Thanks for the info, well I guess I gotta with the Fab then. I will ask my cousin's help, since he has experience in building and all.

Rascal
04-04-2005, 7:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bwiese:

Why people want to build problematic AR lowers from scratch that could be a violation of CA AW laws I dunno. It certainly isn't for cost reasons: by the time you get machine work done on a 80% lower you're already at $200 of yours or someone else's time, machine time, etc.

Bill W
San Jose </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually it will cost you more, if you have to buy all the materials and tools to do this, but there is usually one or 2 people around here who can help you out with the tools and jig to do this. It's not really as hard as it seems, and nothing some JBweld can't fix. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
I think everyone should build one, just for the experience. You will learn alot from it.
You can buy 80% Kali legal receivers that have the bottom of the magwell closed up and the inside is already milled out.
I do recommend that if you are not mechanically inclined, don't try it yourself. Have a mechanically inclined friend oversee what you are doing. Remember that YOU MUST DO THE WORK YOURSELF, or it is not legal.

C.G.
04-07-2005, 10:02 PM
I've tried to do a bit of research on this and the only 80% Fab 10 lower receivers I could find are cast, not forged (which makes me think that my own Fab-10 lower is cast, not forged, which does not make me all that happy) As far as building 80% receiver that is not a FAB 10, look at the link about what the DOJ has to say about it. I hope that this will clear up the issue.DOJ ruling on 80% ar lowers (http://www.acmearms.com/caldoj-80letter_small.jpg)

C.G.
04-08-2005, 8:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Be forfewarned that the letter you reference is a couple of years old and that the Acme Arms website hasn't been updated in a long time. In fact, the owner is no longer in California, having moved to Texas a few months back to regain his freedom.

I know, I helped him move. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ted, do you know of any changes since then?

imported_booknut
04-16-2005, 9:07 PM
If you want to make your own with a mag that sticks out the well like a real AR, I've always suggested getting one of those blanks.
The blanks have no machining done at all.
You could then mill out the magwell, insert the magazine of your choice (keep in mind the legalities of round count) and permanently fix it to the blank.

Then with some creative supporting, finish the blank to accept the required parts for proper functioning.

In my opinion this would be legal because you fixed the magazine before the blank ever reached the 'magic' 80% everyone talks about that makes it a bonafide firearm.

So, when you reach that magic point, it is a firearm that cannot hold more rounds than the permanent magazine fixed to the body.
The 'magazine' being a permanent part, keeps the firearm from being interpreted as an AW.

I'm back to add,
this should also be okay to do with the 'less than' 80% blanks that have the magwell already open, but do not qualify as a firearm.
Fix your mag in permanently and then finish the piece.

I would document the building process with photos and/or web journals/forum postings. Basically whatever you can think of to prove you did things in the correct order.
You want to avoid having the piece legally become a firearm before you attach the mag or else it becomes an AW.