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LongBch_SigP226
04-17-2005, 9:43 AM
I'm bidding on a handgun online. Auction is going to close in few days and I hope I win this. It's been over 5 years since I bought my last gun which was a shotgun. Maybe 6 years since I bought my last handgun.

Things have changed over the years so couple of questions to people that bought a gun recently.

1) When I go pick up my gun after 10 day waiting period, do I need to bring a lockable case (for example, Pelican case) to walk out from the gun store with a gun or can I just walk with its shipping box?

2) Do I need to bring or purchase a trigger lock? (Gun doesn't come with it.) I don't own gun safe.

3) I know you have to demonstrate safe handling.
What kind of things do I have to show?

4) If you can think of other things that I failed to mention here, please add to this list.

Thanks for your help.

Blue
04-17-2005, 9:55 AM
You have to have a "Handgun Safety Certificate" which most FFL's can give to you after you pass an easy written test and pay a fee of something like $20-$30. You have to fill out an affidavit saying you have a DOJ approved safe, or buy an approved lock when you pick up the gun. You also have to bring in proof of residence ( I normally use vehicle registration). Once all of that crap is done, you also have to take a physical test with the firearm, showing that you can load, unload, check to see if it's loaded, and clear a jam.

bwiese
04-17-2005, 10:06 AM
Ding...

Several things apply now to CA handgun purchases. Besides the usual DROS hassles and 10 day waiting period:

<LI> besides CA ID you need to have proof of residency with current address (utility bill from PG&E or cable or phone co, maybe a car registration or a lease/rental agreement, etc.)

<LI> you need a HSC (Handgun Safety Certificate) card. This is much like the old BFSC, except it's new since 2003 (?) and I think it only lasts 5? years now. It's $25 (may vary a bit) and don't lose the card or I don't think it can be re-issued.

<LI> you have to show safe loading/unloading and locking of handgun to a gunstore clerk approved to do safety demos.

<LI> I think that if gun doesn't have triggerlock you either have to buy an approved lock or fill out an affadavit attesting to your ownership of a qualifying gun safe. My last 2 Rugers came with Ruger padlocks so I am not sure. Bring one just in case.

<LI> Depending on how store is situated on parking lot - shared with other stores? etc. - it could be illegal to take a handgun not in a locked case out of store to your car's trunk.
Just in case, bring a locking case with you.
If the gun shop is on its own property (or property it exclusively controls) then less issue bringing unlocked gun outside to car on parking lot. (If car is on street, better have a locked case!)

Bill Wiese
San Jose

imported_1911_sfca
04-17-2005, 10:07 AM
1. If you are crossing any public property between the gun store and the trunk of your car, you need to carry the gun in a locked hard case.

2. Yes.

3. Insert a dummy cartridge into mag; insert mag into gun and chamber round; remove mag and clear round from chamber; lock gun. All while keeping muzzle in a safe direction and not sweeping yourself or staff.

4. Bring your driver's license and utility bill or car registration (with the same address, obviously). And you need your HSC or an exemption.

LongBch_SigP226
04-17-2005, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by Blue84s10:
You have to have a "Handgun Safety Certificate" which most FFL's can give to you after you pass an easy written test and pay a fee of something like $20-$30. You have to fill out an affidavit saying you have a DOJ approved safe, or buy an approved lock when you pick up the gun. You also have to bring in proof of residence ( I normally use vehicle registration). Once all of that crap is done, you also have to take a physical test with the firearm, showing that you can load, unload, check to see if it's loaded, and clear a jam.

Oops, forgot to mention this, I do have HSC.

gimmejr
04-17-2005, 5:30 PM
Ive bought 4 guns in the last 4 months and the browning I just got at Sportsman Supply was the only one that required me to leave with a locked case. I have a safe at home and none of the other places I purchased recently from even mentioned a lock for the case when I was leaving. I was told to bring one when I picked it up which I did but when I got there the dam lock didnt fit the case so I was forced to buy one anyway. Is it something all the gun shops required to make sure you have?

imported_kyoung05
04-17-2005, 7:46 PM
I don't think so. As far as they know, you have a lockable case in your car, or I believe you can even use your trunk as a "lockable" case. I think gun shops in the bay area may be more strict though, as I too have been to Sportsmens Supply and had to take the gun out in a locked case of some sort (or my shotgun which they made me buy a case for). In Sacramento I purchased a revolver and they put it in a plain brown paper bag for me to leave the store with.

icormba
04-17-2005, 8:11 PM
Originally posted by gimmejr:
I just got at Sportsman Supply was the only one that required me to leave with a locked case.

yeah, I think Sportsman's doesn't like me... I didn't bring a lockable case when I went to pickup so they said I had to buy one from them along with a locking trigger lock! THEY DIDN'T let me sign the affidavid either because I didn't save my reciept for the safe I bought 10 years ago!

Fortunatly I live about 3 miles away, went home, and brought my case back with me. still had to buy the trigger lock though $20!! bastards!

Trader Jack
04-17-2005, 8:13 PM
Leaving the sellers store with a new purchase of a handgun does NOT require you to have a locked case to your car AS FAR AS THE DOJ is concerned. It is a county law. Santa Clara County does require it.

bwiese
04-17-2005, 9:51 PM
Bzzzzzzzt! Not quite...


Leaving the sellers store with a new purchase of a handgun does NOT require you to have a locked case to your car AS FAR AS THE DOJ is concerned. It is a county law. Santa Clara County does require it

If you cross onto property that is not under exclusive ownership or control of the gun store and your gun is in an unlocked case, you are violating STATE law - which mandates that handguns be transported unloaded, in locked cases, etc. This could be quite common: walking out of a gunstore onto public sidewalk, and your car is parked on street.

If you can leave the store and get to your car and you're still on exclusive gunshop property (private parking lot, not shared with other businesses) you shouldn't need a locked case (though you'd have to put it in trunk of your car to drive away legally...)

Some locales may require additional supposed safeguards and require that guns leave the door in locked cases even if the trip to your car is legal.

The DOJ is fairly irrelevant as far as prosecutions go. 99.9% of all prosecutions are by local DAs. You are busted by local cops and prosecuted by local DAs for violating [i]state laws.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

bwiese
04-17-2005, 10:04 PM
quote:
yeah, I think Sportsman's doesn't like me... I didn't bring a lockable case when I went to pickup so they said I had to buy one from them along with a locking trigger lock! THEY DIDN'T let me sign the affidavid either because I didn't save my reciept for the safe I bought 10 years ago!

Fortunatly I live about 3 miles away, went home, and brought my case back with me. still had to buy the trigger

OK, Sportsmen's Supply parking lot/area is a common lot shared with other businesses. They don't really have their own private lot. So that requires - aside from any Santa Clara County or SJ local laws - a locked case.

You do NOT need to show Sportsmen's Supply your safe receipt. You are filling out an AFFADAVIT that you own a gunsafe: you are attesting, under penalty of perjury, that you indeed own a compliant gunsafe; the form, as I recall, has blanks where you fill in the brand, make and model. Your signing this absolves gunshop of all responsibility. And I belive when you do this, you don't need a trigger lock.

Sportsmen Supply is just being overcautious here.


Bill Wiese
San Jose

icormba
04-17-2005, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by bwiese:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">quote:
yeah, I think Sportsman's doesn't like me... I didn't bring a lockable case when I went to pickup so they said I had to buy one from them along with a locking trigger lock! THEY DIDN'T let me sign the affidavid either because I didn't save my reciept for the safe I bought 10 years ago!

Fortunatly I live about 3 miles away, went home, and brought my case back with me. still had to buy the trigger

OK, Sportsmen's Supply parking lot/area is a common lot shared with other businesses. They don't really have their own private lot. So that requires - aside from any Santa Clara County or SJ local laws - a locked case.

You do NOT need to show Sportsmen's Supply your safe receipt. You are filling out an AFFADAVIT that you own a gunsafe: you are attesting, under penalty of perjury, that you indeed own a compliant gunsafe; the form, as I recall, has blanks where you fill in the brand, make and model. Your signing this absolves gunshop of all responsibility. And I belive when you do this, you don't need a trigger lock.

Sportsmen Supply is just being overcautious here.


Bill Wiese
San Jose </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

just saying what they told me when I picked up my k98 1944 bolt action mauser. Both the bald guy and one of the younger kids said the same thing... They would not accept the signed affidavid without my safe reciept (I even bought the safe from them 10 years ago). I had a gun sock, but they said the rifle had to be in a locked case and that they had some for $40. SCREW-THEM!! it's the last time I buy anything from them... It's BigMac time for good.

same thing happened to a guy (same day, same time) who was picking up his Winchester (something) that he had been looking for for years. However there was no approved lock that would fit his trigger guard. The guy was pissed to say the least & Sportsman's wouldn't let him take it. These was all a few months ago. The store blamed the Ca law makers.

sure they have a right to refuse service... but I have a right not to buy from them & I won't any longer.

imported_Telpierion
04-18-2005, 5:33 AM
I had a gun sock, but they said the rifle had to be in a locked case and that they had some for $40.

To the best of my knowledge the locked case thing is only a requirement for handguns.

Blue
04-18-2005, 5:40 AM
Originally posted by Telpierion:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I had a gun sock, but they said the rifle had to be in a locked case and that they had some for $40.

To the best of my knowledge the locked case thing is only a requirement for handguns. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I bought a Stack on 8 gun file cabinet thing from them, and they were so convinced that you had to have a receipt, they gave me two copies. They said that as far as the DOJ was concerned, no receipt, no safe. Nobody else has ever told me that, they just had me fill out paperwork.

atham@earthlink.net
04-18-2005, 6:50 AM
Those numbnuts were wrong. If you have a certified lockbox, you just have to signed the affadavit saying that you do indeed own one. No proof of purchase or ownership required.

Trader Jack
04-18-2005, 8:10 AM
Who's is the "numb nuts" Mute???

You are wrong about the lock box. YOU DO have to have a receipt. It is only a true safe that you do not need the receipt. read the form.

leswift
05-09-2005, 9:32 AM
man, Just that crap is reason enough to leave CA. Sheesh.

maxicon
05-09-2005, 6:22 PM
For long guns, I've bought a number at Sportsmen's in the last few years (including just a few months ago), and they always let me carry it in a sleeve (I keep one in the trunk, along with a plastic handgun case). As far as I know, that's a store requirement, as there's no CaDOJ requirement that non-AW long guns be cased, locked, or anything for transport. Dunno why others have had different experiences...

On the locked handgun case thing, you do need one to carry the gun to your car, according to this section of the DWCL (unless I'm missing something elsewhere):

12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm, the firearm is contained within a locked container.
(b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with this chapter.
(c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device.

What's interesting about the receipt thing is that it appears the law has been changed, based on what is currently in the DWCL website. The law now states that it's necessary to show an original receipt for a gun safe, while it used to state you only needed to fill out the affidavit, and needed the receipt for lock boxes but not safes:

12088.1.(d) The sale or transfer of a firearm shall be exempt from subdivision (a) if both of the following apply:
(1) The purchaser or transferee owns a gun safe that meets the standards set forth in Section 12088.2. Gun safes shall not be required to be tested, and therefore may meet the standards without appearing on the Department of Justice roster.
(2) The purchaser or transferee presents an original receipt for purchase of the gun safe, or other proof of purchase or ownership of the gun safe as authorized by the Attorney General, to the firearms dealer. The dealer shall maintain a copy of this receipt or proof of purchase with the dealers' record of sales of firearms.

If I'm off base and missing something here, someone correct me!

max

maxicon
05-09-2005, 6:37 PM
On further investigation, it appears it's the "or other proof of purchase or ownership of the gun safe as authorized by the Attorney General" that allows the signed affidavit...

Anonymous Coward
05-10-2005, 5:32 PM
I think sportsmen's supply has some trouble with at least one of the businesses next to it. I was asked once not to pull into a certain driveway when picking a security cabinet a couple of houses down the road. That might explain why they want all the guns covered.

What would help is if they're more up-front about it, saying "Here we know the law doesn't require a box for your long gun, but our neighbours give us a hard time. And if we want to continue to stay in business we have to ask you for that." I had no problem with that statement. Overall they're friendly and helpful.

On the other hand they're not 100% firm in what's legal. E.g. they will NOT receive FAL receivers.

I also think they should worry less about about these handguns in locked containers. Explaining the law and then saying "you'll put on a lock before you'll leave the building, right?" would be good enough. Don't make me buy another lock, because the darn padlock I brought doesn't fit the holes in the friggin box!

Now that I'm done ranting: why would it matter if the parking lot is shared with another business? It is still private property, right? I can drink a beer in a liquor store parking lot that's shared with other businesses, right? As long as the other businesses don't mind, it should be OK (both drinking alcohol and transporting unlocked firearms).

05-11-2005, 10:41 AM
If I buy a gun that does not come with a CA lock that I buy one for $9 (L A Guns) $10.95 (Reting) or $7.95 (Turners). For less than ten buck I'm not signing any affidavit that may come back to bite me in the ***.

$20 for a lock BTW is robbery.