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Untamed1972
08-03-2009, 6:32 PM
So I'm in the market for a new tactical type pistol as my current one just isn't quite suited for the style of shooting I've been doing lately. So I wanted to seek some suggestions since I don't have every firearm committed to memory. So here is my list of requirements:

Prefer something hammerless
No manual safety. (Big reason for this is I am lefthanded so most right-hand only setups just don't work for me so 1911 type setups are pretty much out. Righthand mag release is fine...I'm used to that.)

So right off the top of my head I'm thinkin', Glock, XD, or maybe M&P. Have shot Glocks before but it's been awhile. Haven't not tried XD or M&P.

Also it should be something not too exotic so that I can have readily available choices of holsters w/o having to settle for generic or custom made stuff.

I've always shot 9mm but I'm not set on that. But since I have 9mm ammo on hand may likely want to stick with that, but would consider .40 also.

Also non-rostered suggestions are fine too (Like XDm for example).

Barrel length? Whatcha think? 4" or 5"?

Price-wise I would like to keep it under $700 or so if possible. But I'm not a buy & sell kinda guy so what I buy I will likely keep forever so I dont mind spending for quality within reason.

So suggest away oh great knowledgable calgunners!

Greg-Dawg
08-03-2009, 6:40 PM
Here you go: Glock model 27
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/Gregdog/Pin%20Ups/G27Surefire001.jpg

Untamed1972
08-03-2009, 6:45 PM
Here you go: Glock model 27
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/Gregdog/Pin%20Ups/G27Surefire001.jpg


I'm looking for something with more of a full-sized grip.

Rekrab
08-03-2009, 6:48 PM
What about a Beretta 92F or PX4 Storm?

Untamed1972
08-03-2009, 6:53 PM
What about a Beretta 92F or PX4 Storm?


Dont those have right handed controls on them? ie safety/decocker?

SuperSet
08-03-2009, 6:58 PM
Not sure what makes a pistol tactical but you cannot go wrong with a Glock 17.

locosway
08-03-2009, 7:00 PM
Any of the guns you listed will do, and they're all equal more or less. I don't consider any single one to be better than another. With that said you may want to see which one offers the best after market parts and ease of maintenance. I know Glock has a good following of aftermarket parts that one can do by themselves, but I'm unsure on the others.

If I was going to purchase a new tactical pistol today it would be the Glock 35. This pistol is already setup for competition use and has a lot of nice features that you would add to a normal Glock for competition use such as an extended slide release.

Rekrab
08-03-2009, 7:00 PM
Dont those have right handed controls on them? ie safety/decocker?

Bah! Sorry I saw the Left-handed thing and missed the "No Manual Safety"

Although if it's only because you're left-handed you might be interested to know that the PX4 is ambi. Magazine release can be moved to the right side as well.

locosway
08-03-2009, 7:02 PM
Any of the guns you listed will do, and they're all equal more or less. I don't consider any single one to be better than another. With that said you may want to see which one offers the best after market parts and ease of maintenance. I know Glock has a good following of aftermarket parts that one can do by themselves, but I'm unsure on the others.

If I was going to purchase a new tactical pistol today it would be the Glock 35. This pistol is already setup for competition use and has a lot of nice features that you would add to a normal Glock for competition use such as an extended slide release.

Also if you prefer the 9mm to the .40 then you could just get the Glock 34 which is the same as mentioned above but chambered in 9mm.

Untamed1972
08-03-2009, 7:04 PM
Bah! Sorry I saw the Left-handed thing and missed the "No Manual Safety"

Although if it's only because you're left-handed you might be interested to know that the PX4 is ambi. Magazine release can be moved to the right side as well.

Good to know on the PX4....will have to check one out.

Fjold
08-03-2009, 7:05 PM
The last few handguns that I have bought that have worked really well for me (left handed) are the Steyr M40-A1 and the S&W M&P 40C.

I shoot the Steyr in USPSA and it works great. I'm not a big fan of the Glock trigger but a lot of people really love them.

locosway
08-03-2009, 7:06 PM
The last few handguns that I have bought that have worked really well for me (left handed) are the Steyr M40-A1 and the S&W M&P 40C.

I shoot the Steyr in USPSA and it works great. I'm not a big fan of the Glock trigger but a lot of people really love them.

Now that I'm shooting a Glock regularly I like the trigger. The reset is pretty short and predictable.

tommygunr
08-03-2009, 7:14 PM
What is your current pistol ? If your not sure wich pistol you would like go find a range that will let you rent them . Try out the different types and go with what works the best . I'm a lefty as well but like the feel of a 1911 so i went with the XD Tactical also have a CZ SP01 that has a amby manuel safty. both are great pistols no problems with either one.

cmaynes
08-03-2009, 7:18 PM
Not sure what makes a pistol tactical but you cannot go wrong with a Glock 17.

The 17 is pretty much the primo 9mm combat pistol- you wont be let down by it if you leave it alone.... the M&P is cool too, but the ease of repair and all still the make the GLOCK very attractive. the 19 is in that realm as well....

big al
08-03-2009, 7:19 PM
XD tactical, tada!!!

B Strong
08-03-2009, 7:25 PM
G17 or 19.

100% reliable, you can leave 'em stock or throw a bucket full of cash at 'em, your choice.


So I'm in the market for a new tactical type pistol as my current one just isn't quite suited for the style of shooting I've been doing lately. So I wanted to seek some suggestions since I don't have every firearm committed to memory. So here is my list of requirements:

Prefer something hammerless
No manual safety. (Big reason for this is I am lefthanded so most right-hand only setups just don't work for me so 1911 type setups are pretty much out. Righthand mag release is fine...I'm used to that.)

So right off the top of my head I'm thinkin', Glock, XD, or maybe M&P. Have shot Glocks before but it's been awhile. Haven't not tried XD or M&P.

Also it should be something not too exotic so that I can have readily available choices of holsters w/o having to settle for generic or custom made stuff.

I've always shot 9mm but I'm not set on that. But since I have 9mm ammo on hand may likely want to stick with that, but would consider .40 also.

Also non-rostered suggestions are fine too (Like XDm for example).

Barrel length? Whatcha think? 4" or 5"?

Price-wise I would like to keep it under $700 or so if possible. But I'm not a buy & sell kinda guy so what I buy I will likely keep forever so I dont mind spending for quality within reason.

So suggest away oh great knowledgable calgunners!

locosway
08-03-2009, 7:26 PM
The 17 is pretty much the primo 9mm combat pistol- you wont be let down by it if you leave it alone.... the M&P is cool too, but the ease of repair and all still the make the GLOCK very attractive. the 19 is in that realm as well....

17 is nice, but the longer sights on the 34/35 is better for tactical/sport shooting. For normal carry the 17 is fine, but if you're going for a good production Glock for tactical then the 34/35 should be worth a first look.

aplinker
08-03-2009, 7:33 PM
What kind of "tactical" are we talking here?

Military? Police? Competition? Mall?

If I were trying to shoot as fast and as accurately as possible for a course of fire, I would run a G34. I'd smooth down the frame a bit (I don't love grooves) & texture it, add an extended mag release, put on a magwell and upgrade the sights/trigger.

For field/duty? G17 with mag release extended and upgraded sights, MAYBE some texturing. Nothing else.

Aftermarket support is wider for glock than just about anything else.

TonyKat
08-03-2009, 8:13 PM
G19

locosway
08-03-2009, 8:19 PM
G19

Why would you suggest a gun with a shorter sighting over one that is longer for tactical shooting?

TonyKat
08-03-2009, 8:23 PM
Why would you suggest a gun with a shorter sighting over one that is longer for tactical shooting?

Something longer like the G34 is to awkward and bulky in my opinion

locosway
08-03-2009, 8:28 PM
For HD or CC I'd agree that less bulky is better. For tactical though I'm gonna have to go with the longer sight guns. There's just too many advantages to not use such a gun over a compact.

TZL
08-03-2009, 8:56 PM
Got one this weekend :o


If I was going to purchase a new tactical pistol today it would be the Glock 35. This pistol is already setup for competition use and has a lot of nice features that you would add to a normal Glock for competition use such as an extended slide release.

CGT80
08-03-2009, 10:40 PM
What kind of shooting are you doing? This weekend I shot an xd 5" in 9mm. I have heard that an xd 40 10rd mag will hold 16 rounds of 9mm and work in the 9mm gun if you bend the lips in a bit. The gun I used was heavily modified for competition shooting. It worked very well. I usually shoot an xd 4" 40cal for competition and do great with it. My 40 is stock. The 9mm with cheap factory ammo had a little less recoil than my 40 with 135gr copper coated bullets hand loaded. My 135's have far less recoil than the standard WWB 165 gr. rounds.

It all depends on what your needs are. I thought 40 was great, so I bought one. But, now my needs have changed and I realize that 9mm has some advantages over a 40.

Gryff
08-03-2009, 11:19 PM
If the roster isn't important, I would go with the XDm. Otherwise, I vote for the XD Tactical (5") in 9mm.

Glocks are great if you can get past the atrocious grip. Personally, I hate the Luger grip angle and prefer the 1911's. That's why the XD is much better for me (along with having a better grip shape).

Legasat
08-03-2009, 11:30 PM
I never cared for Glock. Something about the angle of the grip.

I have shot XD's, and I like them.

I own 3 M&P's (9mm, 9c & 45).

IMHO, they are the best of the bunch.

gregshin
08-03-2009, 11:44 PM
CZ SP-01

wildhawker
08-03-2009, 11:46 PM
If the roster isn't important, I would go with the XDm. Otherwise, I vote for the XD Tactical (5") in 9mm.

Glocks are great if you can get past the atrocious grip. Personally, I hate the Luger grip angle and prefer the 1911's. That's why the XD is much better for me (along with having a better grip shape).

^ this, exactly.

bondmid003
08-03-2009, 11:49 PM
I have an XDm .40 and love it but alas its not on the roster and probably never will be. I also have a USP .40 and I hear the USP Tactical models are awesome to shoot, so I'd suggest the USP

wildhawker
08-04-2009, 12:09 AM
I have an XDm .40 and love it but alas its not on the roster and probably never will be. I also have a USP .40 and I hear the USP Tactical models are awesome to shoot, so I'd suggest the USP

It may never make the roster, but the roster will go away (http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/news/70-saf-calguns-foundation-challenges-california-handgun-ban-scheme) at some point. Until then, out-of-state and LEO family members are good for something beyond the occasional Hallmark card.

locosway
08-04-2009, 12:10 AM
HK is over his price from the OP

m98
08-04-2009, 12:15 AM
If the roster isn't important, I would go with the XDm. Otherwise, I vote for the XD Tactical (5") in 9mm.

Glocks are great if you can get past the atrocious grip. Personally, I hate the Luger grip angle and prefer the 1911's. That's why the XD is much better for me (along with having a better grip shape).

+1, IMHO...If one don't mind the Luger type grip. I vote for an XD as well. M&P, I dunno, it doesn't have a great track record for functioning in the most xtreme conditions. Glocks&XD's has been thru REAL torture tests with passing results. HK's are real nice too but just like hi-tolerance 1911's/berrettas/sigs.....Tight Tolerances+dirt+sand+mud=click not bang.

m98
08-04-2009, 12:18 AM
HK is over his price from the OP
+1...I'd rather go with Les Baer/Kimber custom tac 1911 over any HK pistols.

bondmid003
08-04-2009, 12:21 AM
It may never make the roster, but the roster will go away (http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/news/70-saf-calguns-foundation-challenges-california-handgun-ban-scheme) at some point. Until then, out-of-state and LEO family members are good for something beyond the occasional Hallmark card.

Haha you're probably right. On another note the XDm isn't that cheap especially when compared to the standard XD

leelaw
08-04-2009, 12:56 AM
I'm looking for something with more of a full-sized grip.

And a larger flashlight. That one's for sissies!

Try a SW M&P. Pick a caliber. I think they need trigger work out of the box, but I think the same about HK USP series and Glocks. YMMV.

If you said a Hammered pistol, I'd suggest a CZ, but that's out for now.

Glock Fan
08-04-2009, 1:21 AM
Glock 34 -or- 35 FTW!!! I shoot IDPA, USPSA, 2 gun matches and my G34 is my handgun of choice. Lots of good priced mods you can do without paying a ton of cash!

SJgunguy24
08-04-2009, 1:41 AM
Buy a Glock 22 or 17 and just build a 34/35 upper for it. They use the same frame. With the 40 upper you can get away with the conversion barrel to shoot 9mm. I've seem a premium price for the "tactical" 34/35 thats why I recommend the 22/17 models. You should be able to get into a good used G22/17 for 400$ and have funds for a holster, ammo, mags and pouches, and new sights. Not to mention Glock mags are 20-25$ If you paying more, you should ask for flowers and a kiss, or at least a reach around:eek:

randy
08-04-2009, 5:47 AM
I have a G22 and an S&W M&P 40c for sale if you're interested both with nite sites.

sierrawoodsman
08-04-2009, 12:17 PM
I have heard that an xd 40 10rd mag will hold 16 rounds of 9mm and work in the 9mm gun if you bend the lips in a bit.

That would be a felony...

odysseus
08-04-2009, 12:28 PM
Another term I think is a little better might be "fighting" pistol. But then what pistol can't be used for fighting? Anyway, you are looking for a super reliable weapon you can count on all the time to feed in proven calibers, that is built for capacity. It is not about looks or even super accuracy, but something that is very simple to pickup and shoot and goes boom every time.

So you already have it listed here, Glocks, XD, HK, M&P, and others. It really depends more on you, what you feel shoots better for you and fits your budget.

SCMA-1
08-04-2009, 12:38 PM
Another term I think is a little better might be "fighting" pistol. But then what pistol can't be used for fighting? Anyway, you are looking for a super reliable weapon you can count on all the time to feed in proven calibers, that is built for capacity. It is not about looks or even super accuracy, but something that is very simple to pickup and shoot and goes boom every time.

So you already have it listed here, Glocks, XD, HK, M&P, and others. It really depends more on you, what you feel shoots better for you and fits your budget.

Yes. What makes a pistol "tactical" has more to do with how it's used and the skill and knowledge of the operator. Otherwise, they are all pretty much identical in capabilities with one exception; I'd highly recommend one with a rail for light mounting.

SCMA-1

Sheepdog1968
08-04-2009, 12:52 PM
If I had to choose one to fit a few roles (personal protection, social target shooting, some type of IPSC competition where i wasn't into the gaming) I would go with either the XD 45 ACP (inside CA as limited to 10+1 rounds; 13+1 outside of CA) or the XDM in 40 (outside of CA as best balance of capacity and firepower 16+1). Most handguns are more accurate than most people can shoot them. I'd get a light for the front rail and consider night sights. I could be talked out of the night sights as you need to see what you shoot as a good guy.

If you happen to own property both inside and outside of CA, I'd go with the XD 45 ACP and keep 13 rounders for my outside CA property and 10 rounders inside of CA.

Glocks are fine too, I just think the XDs are slightly better but it starts to become a Ford vs. Chevy things.

FWIW, my favorites are Sigs but I think the XD is better choice for your specifics.

C_1
08-04-2009, 12:56 PM
I don't know what tactical is, but you cant really go wrong with a Glock. Pick any size or caliber.. Whatever flavor you like.

RolinThundr
08-04-2009, 2:29 PM
I am a left-handed shooter as well and I have no problem with 1911A1s, just get one with an ambi-safety. I have a SA MC Operator which has ambi-safety, night sights (included), and an accessory rail on the frame:
http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?version=34
http://www.springfield-armory.com/assets/pdf/1SPRINGFIELD_Book_armory_PX9105MLP.pdf
On the downside it is out of the price range you gave. You can buy a 1911 and add the ambi-safety easily later, along with adding night sights and an accessory rail. So you can add stuff as you have money.
Another thing to consider are Sig DAK (double-action) models, such as the P229 DAK, which I also have. With Sigs you can have a gunsmith simply move the mag release to the other side, and there is no manual safety to worry about:
http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=8&productid=119
Slightly higher than your price range, but you may be able to find a used DAK model.
Closer to your range, I'd suggest a SA XD model, no manual safety, ambi-mag release, accessory rail, and I think you can finally get the ones with night sights. If not, you can easily find night sights for it and put them on.

Untamed1972
08-04-2009, 3:03 PM
My other issue with 1911's is lower mag capacity. I know.....we're limited to 10rds, but I don't stay in CA 100% of the time, and hopefully one day the 10rd limit will go away......or maybe I will get the F outta this state and would like to take advantage of free state luxuries should that day come.

But I think I'd prefer to just stay away from manual safeties all together if I can. Right handed mag release doesn't bother me, I'm used to using those already. Would prolly be harder for me to untrain myself from that anyway. And for side release I slap in mag and rack slide anyway. So it's really just the righthand only safety that an issue because they are usually in a location that just isn't handy for manipulating with the left hand.

Black Majik
08-04-2009, 3:06 PM
You're looking for a "tactical" pistol huh? That usually implies low speed/high drag.

Something big, clunky, heavy, impractical and will make all counterstrike/COD virgin guys cream their pants.

A D.E. .50AE in brushed chrome.

Untamed1972
08-04-2009, 3:11 PM
You're looking for a "tactical" pistol huh? That usually implies low speed/high drag.

Something big, clunky, heavy, impractical and will make all counterstrike/COD virgin guys cream their pants.

A D.E. .50AE in brushed chrome.

I didn't say hollywood tacticool! LOL

I'm looking for durable, reliable, simple, good aftermarket support, something that can/will take a beating, something I won't mind getting dirty and scratched up, and will always go bang when I want it to, and won't when I don't.

Black Majik
08-04-2009, 3:32 PM
I didn't say hollywood tacticool! LOL

I'm looking for durable, reliable, simple, good aftermarket support, something that can/will take a beating, something I won't mind getting dirty and scratched up, and will always go bang when I want it to, and won't when I don't.

LOL. :D

Glock is really your answer. I hope I don't come across as a G-lock fanboy but they do have their merits.

Maybe finding one of the older G21SF models (if you don't mind .45 ACP) with the ambi mag release.

If youre fine with the traditional mag release on the left side for right hand shooters (using your index finger) then a regular plain jane G17 may be worth looking at. Aftermarket support is very aplenty, I usually like to clean up and lighten the trigger, and get new sights on my Glocks. The factory plastic sights are a true piece of crap, their night sights are great, though I prefer the sight picture on Heinie's straight 8s.

Many recommend them because they simply work. If you can overcome the grip angle, the low bore axis really helps tame down recoil on a polymer framed gun. Great trigger characteristics once it's lightened and smoothened up.

Also for $700 price cap, you may also find a used HK USP or P2000. It'll have the lever mag release which is much more ambi friendly, the P2000 also has ambi slidestops if you prefer using it as a slide release. The P2000 and USPc share many components such as leather holsters and magazines which is a huge plus.

The lowest recoiling gun I've encountered in a polyframed 9mm, however, is the M&P. An absolute dream to shoot. The only drawback is the crunchy trigger, it's like skiing through Socal's desert. A triggerjob would make that gun MUCH more enjoyable to shoot and own. Definitely one to consider.

Good luck.

aplinker
08-04-2009, 3:37 PM
That would be a felony...

Bending the lips, if it makes it so it won't work in the .40, is the only part of that action that isn't legal.

Don't modify them so they won't work in the .40. If they still do, you're fine.

stix213
08-04-2009, 5:07 PM
Bending the lips, if it makes it so it won't work in the .40, is the only part of that action that isn't legal.

Don't modify them so they won't work in the .40. If they still do, you're fine.

So you are claiming it is legal to both purchase and use this .40 magazine as a high cap 9mm as long as it can still function in the .40??? I seriously doubt that, and expect that any mod (no matter how trivial) to make it work as a high cap 9mm, even if it still functions in .40, means manufacturing a high cap mag - also known as a Felony.

CGT80
08-04-2009, 9:33 PM
I have never tried a 40 mag in a 9mm gun. I wonder if it would work ok without bending the lips. The mag is still a 10rd 40 cali legal mag. Also, for someone who wanted both pistols or a 9mm conversion barrel for the 40, they could use the same mags for 2 calibers. You could have 4 mags to use for either gun versus having to buy 8 total to have 4 mags each. As the person whom started the thread stated, if you lived in a free state, you would have nothing to worry about. I have heard that some people will buy rebuild kits for mags, which can be put together as a complete mag, and use them in cali. but I would not take that chance. It seems to depend on where you live or if you will be willing to not follow the laws.

Its amazing that people thought a 10 round limit would make a real difference. With a cali. legal mag you could still kill 10 people before you have to reload. I can reload pretty darn quick. Just like most of the other gun laws, the criminals don't give a damn about the law anyway so they will just bring in hi caps from out of state, buy off the street, or reload fast and make do with the 10 rounders that they have. I would love to live somewhere without these BS laws.

locosway
08-04-2009, 9:37 PM
It's simple, at night when the guns roam about the streets the more evil 15 round ones will kill more children.

CGT80
08-04-2009, 10:37 PM
OK. Thanks. I knew there had to be a reason. :thumbsup:

bondmid003
08-04-2009, 11:03 PM
The Taurus 24/7 OSS sounds exactly like what you're looking for: tactical and under 700, unfortunately its not rostered

Sam
08-05-2009, 1:38 AM
I have heard that some people will buy rebuild kits for mags, which can be put together as a complete mag, and use them in cali. but I would not take that chance.

If said mags hold more than 10 rounds that is illegal.

erskatedoc
08-05-2009, 5:48 AM
Very reliable 9mm, easy to shoot.

deb7566
08-05-2009, 8:19 AM
The Beretta 92Fs was the first gun I purchased. I tried many different types of guns at the range. I probably practiced several hundred rounds with Glocks, Sigs, Revolvers, and the Beretta before I made my decision. The Beretta was the gun that I enjoyed shooting the most, and to get good, you have to practice.

The manual safety and first trigger pull is an overrated issue. Flicking the safety off becomes second nature. You can take the pistol out of double action mode by either racking the slide or manually pulling the hammer back or flicking the safety off before you close the slide. Even in double action mode, my first shot was only about 1/2 centimeter lower than my single action shots.

In a Home Defense situation, I never keep a loaded magazine in my gun at home so my first action would be the same as it is at the range: load the magazine, flick the safety off, and close the slide.

One thing I liked about the Beretta better than the Glock is that the Beretta had a lot less kick, therefore, I was able to set and get a second shot off much faster than with the Glock. After about 100 rounds with the Glock, I was tired of shooting. I could shoot the Beretta all day long and enjoy it.

So, get the gun that you will enjoy shooting a lot of rounds with. That is how you will get good.

Untamed1972
08-05-2009, 8:44 AM
The Taurus 24/7 OSS sounds exactly like what you're looking for: tactical and under 700, unfortunately its not rostered


Did some checking on the OSS and there is alot of mixed reviews on them as far as reliability goes. Not to mention since it's fairly new it might not pass my "good aftermarket support" requirement.

Rekrab
08-05-2009, 9:03 AM
Did some checking on the OSS and there is alot of mixed reviews on them as far as reliability goes. Not to mention since it's fairly new it might not pass my "good aftermarket support" requirement.

What precisely are you looking for in terms of aftermarket support?

For instance, with my beretta PX4 you could load it up with lasers, lights, stainless steel guide rods and more. There's also some ported barrels out there.

When it comes to a "tactical" pistol I'm not sure what you're actually looking for in terms of aftermarket.

Untamed1972
08-05-2009, 2:08 PM
When it comes to a "tactical" pistol I'm not sure what you're actually looking for in terms of aftermarket.

Ready availabilty of additional mags at reasonable prices, holsters, and other accessories I might decide I want. Not hugely into super-trickin' stuff out, but at least having options is nice.

Untamed1972
08-05-2009, 2:21 PM
Ok....so I happened to be by a Turners today with a few minutes to kill and went to see if was still as bare as it was a few months ago. Thay actually did have some stuff in the case and some long guns on the racks.....still hardly any ammo tho.

So anyway....I took a few minutes and fondled some hardware. I handled the following:

1) XD-9: Felt good, I like the ambi mag release and basically meets my other ergo-requirements. $559 price tag. (Also had XD-40 for same price)

2) HK - 45: Felt good, but over my price limit and controls wouldn't work for my left-handedness.

3) PX-4: Felt good in my hand. Has ambi safety, but placement of such is pretty much like my current pistol and not as convienently placed as I'd like. Didn't like the finish on the slide. Locked like it was painted with a rattle-can, and was already scratched from just sittin' in the case.

4) Sig 2022: Over price range and control are all wrong for my leftiness.

5) Glock 17: Felt good, pretty much like I remember them, righthanded mag release is fine for me, but I always hated the sharp corners on the button....can tear up your hand easy when doing holster work. But easily remedied by knocking the sharp corners off. $599 price tag.


The only one they didnt have was the M&P and I'd at least like to check one out. Will hafta hit my local range and rent at least the Glock and the XD and see how they feel in action, and will see if they have an M&P to try also.

soldier07110
08-05-2009, 2:22 PM
Get a Glock, next.

Untamed1972
08-05-2009, 3:10 PM
Get a Glock, next.

I have a sneakin' suspicion that's what I'll end up getting. When it comes to simplicity I don't think it gets any more simple. And since they've been around for quite awhile now and are prolly one of the most prolific semi-auto pistols out there, there is plenty of data to support their reliability.

BamBam-31
08-05-2009, 3:53 PM
In a Home Defense situation, I never keep a loaded magazine in my gun at home so my first action would be the same as it is at the range: load the magazine, flick the safety off, and close the slide.

One thing I liked about the Beretta better than the Glock is that the Beretta had a lot less kick, therefore, I was able to set and get a second shot off much faster than with the Glock. After about 100 rounds with the Glock, I was tired of shooting. I could shoot the Beretta all day long and enjoy it.

Beretta 92f is a good gun. Above two points are bad, however.

First, an HD gun should be kept loaded. Whether it's a good thing to have an additional safety to de-activate in a stress situation can be debated ad nauseam, but having to slap in a mag, trip the safety, AND rack the slide is probably not wise. A loaded Glock/XD/M&P can be fired as soon as it's retrieved.

Second, if you tire after shooting 100 rds. thru a G17, something's wrong. It's an amazingly easy gun to shoot (especially rapidly, w/ its short trigger reset). The 92f's alloy frame may soak up some of the recoil (the all-steel CZ 75b frame even moreso), but you are talking about 9mm, right? In a modern full-sized pistol, 100 rds. of 9mm is nothing. Furthermore, Glock frames are said to flex ever so slightly when fired, thereby absorbing some recoil. Again, an easy pistol to shoot.

OP, look hard at a Glock. You won't be disappointed. ;)

cineski
08-05-2009, 4:15 PM
If the roster isn't a problem for the OP, definitely consider the XDm. I got to play with one out of state, and it's awesome.

Legasat
08-05-2009, 4:16 PM
Will hafta hit my local range and rent at least the Glock and the XD and see how they feel in action, and will see if they have an M&P to try also.

Excellent strategy.

Let us know what you choose.

StoneRoots
08-05-2009, 4:32 PM
Here you go: Glock model 27
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/Gregdog/Pin%20Ups/G27Surefire001.jpg

You best watch out with copywrite laws, I seen gary coleman at the range with that tac27, you better have asked his permission before posting a picture of his prized glock!!! :43:

Untamed1972
08-05-2009, 6:21 PM
OP, look hard at a Glock. You won't be disappointed. ;)


It's definitely in the running. Of those I want to try Glock is the only one I have shot before. But it's been several years since I have, and admittedly at the time my shooting experience was much less, so I didn't have much to compare to as far as performance goes. But I actually shot very well with it....it wasn't a G17 tho. G23 perhaps....I forget.....whatever the 9mm compact model is.....sorry haven't committed all the glock models to memory. But I don't recall anything bad about them. It was brand new I remember it being a biatch to get the last couple of rounds in the mag.....but that would prolly have loosened up over time.

But the XD did feel good in my hand too and I liked the ambi mag release. The price between the 2 was minimal enough to be a non-issue as far as i'm concerned.

But the long term track record of Glock is tough to argue against.

So then my only other dilemna is 9mm or .40 S&W?

bondmid003
08-05-2009, 6:24 PM
If you're going to get a Glock then I'd suggest either the 34 or 35. Personally I'd go with 35 because I don't like 9mm

locosway
08-05-2009, 6:26 PM
Compact is a 19, and as I've stated as well as many others you should look at the G34/35 since it has a longer sight setup which is preferred for tactical and sport shooting.

CalNRA
08-05-2009, 6:53 PM
Here you go: Glock model 27
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/Gregdog/Pin%20Ups/G27Surefire001.jpg



I missed the thread but which adaptor rail is that?

TurboS600
08-05-2009, 7:32 PM
So here is my list of requirements:

Prefer something hammerless
No manual safety. (Big reason for this is I am lefthanded so most right-hand only setups just don't work for me so 1911 type setups are pretty much out. Righthand mag release is fine...I'm used to that.)

So right off the top of my head I'm thinkin', Glock, XD, or maybe M&P. Have shot Glocks before but it's been awhile. Haven't not tried XD or M&P.

Also it should be something not too exotic so that I can have readily available choices of holsters w/o having to settle for generic or custom made stuff.

I've always shot 9mm but I'm not set on that. But since I have 9mm ammo on hand may likely want to stick with that, but would consider .40 also.

Also non-rostered suggestions are fine too (Like XDm for example).

Barrel length? Whatcha think? 4" or 5"?

Price-wise I would like to keep it under $700 or so if possible. But I'm not a buy & sell kinda guy so what I buy I will likely keep forever so I dont mind spending for quality within reason.

So suggest away oh great knowledgable calgunners!

You have just described Springfield XD9/XD40 to a "T". They are built well, less expensive than the Glock, VERY dependable, commonly available, has a full size grip, and easy to maintain. No manual safety, either. I have the XD40 and love it. Like the loaded chamber indicator and striker status indicator, too. Got mine used with 400 rounds through it for under $600 out the door (incl DROS). As for 4-5", it depends on what you want to use it for. If you will ever need to conceal it, go for the 4", if not the 5" will be more accurate and gets better muzzle velocity. XDms are nice, don't know why they don't get them on the roster...

Good luck.

bombadillo
08-05-2009, 9:55 PM
xd 4" service would suit you fine. Uber reliable, and can get it any just about any caliber.

locosway
08-05-2009, 10:15 PM
I missed the thread but which adaptor rail is that?

Looks like it clamps onto the forward trigger guard.

Ranger20
08-06-2009, 12:30 AM
Face to face PPT on a p7....

trinydex
08-06-2009, 1:18 AM
looks like you narrowed yourself down to a glack

TurboS600
08-06-2009, 2:03 AM
But the long term track record of Glock is tough to argue against.

So then my only other dilemna is 9mm or .40 S&W?

Long term??? Since the 80s? Springfield has been making guns since the turn of the last century. Springfield's customer service is legendary, too. Their guns have a lifetime warranty, regardless of if you are the original owner or not. You can drag my XD behind the truck through the mud, snow, dirt, and rain, pick it up and fire it like right out of the box. Anything ever goes wrong and they pay shipping both ways to fix it. 'Nuf said.

As for 9mm or .40, if you are plinking, do the 9mm. If you want to ever use it to defend yourself, do the .40. I will reference you to wikipedia the FBI shooting in Miami for 9mm performance in a gunfight.

MarioS
08-06-2009, 2:24 AM
A Glock or an XD would both fit that purpose extremely well. Tons of accessories available for Glocks...TONS. And they are all very affordable mostly. Depending on your hand size/body build, I would go with a 4" barrel. I tend to like it a lot more. 1911's are really the only full size frame/barrel gun that I like.

I say get both a 9mm and a .40S&W. If I had to choose one though for everything, .40S&W.

BamBam-31
08-06-2009, 3:29 AM
Good thing about a .40 is you can always buy a 9mm conversion barrel and have both calibers in one gun. Another good thing is it's not as common as 9mm, so even in this ammo craze, you can still find .40 on the shelves.

What is fairly commonly understood, however, is that 9mm/.40/.45 are all handgun calibers (meaning none are a 12 gauge) and perform similarly enough that shot placement is the biggest determining factor (meaning buy whichever caliber you shoot more accurately).

You are correct, however, in that Glock's track record trumps pretty much every other polymer offering out there. That's not to say the M&P and XD are not good guns. It's just that Glocks have been out there longer and in far greater numbers, with a track record for rugged reliability second to none. That most maintenance and repairs can be done by yourself rather easily is just gravy.

I have an XD 45 Tactical and would suggest that over any Glock .45 offering simply because Glock double stack .45's, even the SF's, have fairly wide grips. The XD 45's are much more comfortable in that regard, and any added flippiness from the higher bore axis of the XD 45 is offset by the "push" recoil of the .45. My XD 45 Tactial is a real tackdriver, too. Had to send it away to Canyon Creek for a custom trigger job (read: shipping both ways + trigger job = $$$), as the stock pull was atrocious. (In comparison, my Glocks' triggers were vastly improved w/ $75 DIY drop-in kits.)

In .40 or 9mm, however, get a Glock. Especially 9mm, where Glocks truly shine. There's a reason why Glocks dominate Production class in USPSA, and it ain't because private citizens have to use lowest bid pistols from their Depts. The low bore axis and short positive trigger reset make Glocks one of the best rapid fire pistols out there.

Try this: If your range doesn't allow rapid fire, at least try two consecutive controlled pairs (two quick shots at one target, followed by two quick shots at another) with whichever guns you test. Make sure you use a proper high thumbs hold for best recoil control. Also, make sure you release the trigger only as much as you need for reset. You'll find that the Glock's short and positive (you can really feel it click) reset makes it easier to shoot those subsequent shots, especially with a bit of practice.

Haven't had the pleasure of trying the XDm or the HK45 (or even the new Glock RTF's), but I find most polymer guns to be rather slippery. Grit tape helps tremendously. I apply it generously to all my guns, polymer or otherwise.

Just my two cents, anyways. Hope it helps. Good luck, and let us know what you choose, eh? :)

SCMA-1
08-06-2009, 7:06 AM
... but I find most polymer guns to be rather slippery. Grit tape helps tremendously. I apply it generously to all my guns, polymer or otherwise.



+10. Same here! Grip tape (Decal Grips in particular) is a must for polymer frames; I use it on metal frame guns also.:thumbsup:

Untamed1972
08-06-2009, 8:15 AM
Long term??? Since the 80s? Springfield has been making guns since the turn of the last century. Springfield's customer service is legendary, too. Their guns have a lifetime warranty, regardless of if you are the original owner or not. You can drag my XD behind the truck through the mud, snow, dirt, and rain, pick it up and fire it like right out of the box. Anything ever goes wrong and they pay shipping both ways to fix it. 'Nuf said.

As for 9mm or .40, if you are plinking, do the 9mm. If you want to ever use it to defend yourself, do the .40. I will reference you to wikipedia the FBI shooting in Miami for 9mm performance in a gunfight.

But the XD itself has only been around for a few years. That was my point, the Glock design hasn't changed much since it's inception, with nearly 30yrs of the same design still performing reliably is a tough track record to beat. And out of the box performance is a by-product of my budget requirement. I dont want to hafta drop $1200 a gun and then send it out for another few hundred dollars of tuning to make it work right.

Untamed1972
08-06-2009, 8:18 AM
Good thing about a .40 is you can always buy a 9mm conversion barrel and have both calibers in one gun. Another good thing is it's not as common as 9mm, so even in this ammo craze, you can still find .40 on the shelves.


Yes.....I am finding that to be true which is one reason I'm considering going the .40 route.

Will Glock .40 models accept a 9mm barrel? Are seperate mags required for 9mm?

SCMA-1
08-06-2009, 8:50 AM
Yes.....I am finding that to be true which is one reason I'm considering going the .40 route.

Will Glock .40 models accept a 9mm barrel? Are seperate mags required for 9mm?

Mags are different, obviously because case diameter is quite different between 9mm and 40.

PEBKAC
08-06-2009, 9:36 AM
So you are claiming it is legal to both purchase and use this .40 magazine as a high cap 9mm as long as it can still function in the .40??? I seriously doubt that, and expect that any mod (no matter how trivial) to make it work as a high cap 9mm, even if it still functions in .40, means manufacturing a high cap mag - also known as a Felony.
There is no provision in the law for "mis-use" of magazines.

See this (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=203083) thread for the details.

bondmid003
08-06-2009, 3:08 PM
Whoever suggested the trip to the rental range is a smart guy, I'd follow his advice. I've never shot any of my guns before purchasing but then again I've only bought guns I had done a bunch of research on and knew I wanted.

I'm not really sure where you are but if you're in San Diego, Discount Gun Mart rents guns

roc
08-06-2009, 3:14 PM
I would not take the XD for granted even if it's only been a few years since its inception. It has been battle tested through the Balken war by the Croatian forces. That's more than anyone can say for the M&P.

If you get the XDm (assuming you are LEO and can get the 'normal' capacity magazines), you will have 19+1 in a 9mm and 16+1 in 40S&W when it comes to firepower. It has a 4.5 inch match-grade barrel for the 'best of both worlds' in carrying portability, sight radius and accuracy. It is also well within your price range. Not too many pistols can beat that out of the box.

As far as 9mm versus 40SW, this is a never ending argument. I like them both and yes they do make a 9mm conversion barrel for both the XD40 Tactical and the XDm 40. With the proper round, a +p 9mm is just as, if not more effective than a standard pressured 40sw. You will be glad to have those 3 extra rounds when you really need it.

And guess what, if you don't like it, there are tons of people (me included) who would gladly take it off of your hands for more than you paid for it in a PPT :)

I guess I am hoping that you get the XDm 40 and hate it so you can PPT the pistol to me :)

soldier07110
08-06-2009, 9:04 PM
There's no beating a Glock, they're inexpensive, incredibly reliable, light, and a bit ugly. SEALs use them; though trained with Sig P226's and Mk. 23's, Glocks hold up a lot better in salt water and desert environments and have been proven much more reliable in continuous usage without cleaning. Although you may not find yourself in salt water and sandy environments, if you get a Glock you might be persuaded otherwise...

P.S. steer clear of the compacts if you have larger than average hands, the full sizes are fine size-wise.

stomach
08-10-2009, 4:42 PM
hk p7 m8 or PSP
the best choice for your needs,
and the most accurate 9mm in this price range,
BAR NONE.

chefdude
08-10-2009, 5:52 PM
Get a sig p220combat.. .45acp phosphate coated internals alloy frame, night sights and its a just plain cool sig.. sorry about the crappy photo

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g158/crazypants2006/sigcombat001.jpg

duc748bip
08-11-2009, 12:05 PM
HK P2000 with Ambi Mag Catch and Ambi Slide stop. Should be a great choice for left hand shooter. and LE price should be close to yor $700 mark.

C_1
08-11-2009, 2:36 PM
Wow.. 9 pages.. no 10 pages!

You hit up the range yet? Which guns felt good? Which had a natural point of aim for you? Which one did you shoot well?

The 9mm vs 40sw debate is really never ending. However, one of the 9mm advantages is capacity, but if you didn't get "hi-cap" mags before 2000, you will be limited to 10 rounds. Mind as well have 10 rounds of 40sw or 45acp, but get a handgun in a caliber you can handle, or is comfortable with. Another thing with 40sw caliber handguns; most of them can shoot 9mm ammo, with a 40sw-9mm conversion barrel, and a 9mm mag.

Get a Glock 23 and never look back : )

stormy_clothing
08-11-2009, 2:48 PM
9mm glock speer dot ammo for home defense