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View Full Version : Update on Vulcan, Fab-10, GB Sales


C.G.
03-19-2005, 12:33 AM
I thought I would pick up my FAB 10 tomorrow and was told Shoeless no longer will sell just a lower, only a complete lower, which would be fine, but it is backordered and they can't get hold of anyone at Shoeless for time estimate - so my money was refunded by Sonoma Arms. They also mentioned they had to return all of the Vulcan lowers, because the California DOJ did not like the fact that the magazines were modified 20 rounders and could plausibly/easily be modified to fit twenty rounds again. So I guess the Vulcan lower was not approved after all; they will have to put in 10 round magazines to make it legal. (Bill Wiese was totally right a couple of posts ago on this one, I guess he knows the way DOJ thinks). I also received e-mail from GB sales saying that in about two months they will have .308 Bushmasters available once they get the DOJ approval; no price yet, but I am sure it will be high.

C.G.
03-19-2005, 12:33 AM
I thought I would pick up my FAB 10 tomorrow and was told Shoeless no longer will sell just a lower, only a complete lower, which would be fine, but it is backordered and they can't get hold of anyone at Shoeless for time estimate - so my money was refunded by Sonoma Arms. They also mentioned they had to return all of the Vulcan lowers, because the California DOJ did not like the fact that the magazines were modified 20 rounders and could plausibly/easily be modified to fit twenty rounds again. So I guess the Vulcan lower was not approved after all; they will have to put in 10 round magazines to make it legal. (Bill Wiese was totally right a couple of posts ago on this one, I guess he knows the way DOJ thinks). I also received e-mail from GB sales saying that in about two months they will have .308 Bushmasters available once they get the DOJ approval; no price yet, but I am sure it will be high.

Mr331
03-20-2005, 8:36 AM
Uh oh! I am supposed to be getting my Vulcan stripped lower from a different dealer this week.I wonder how it came about that the Vulcans need to go back? They were approved by the DOJ in that configuration (20rd capped at 10rd,pinned mag). I wonder what happens to all the people who bought the lowers and full rifles before?

imported_MaxQ
03-21-2005, 9:15 AM
Just got off the phone with Vulcan - There is no truth to the rumor that current Vulcan receivers have to be returned. As per Vulcan "The mags will only accept 10 rounds and we supply a DOJ approval letter with each receiver." Okay, I'm paraphrasing ever so slightly, but that's close to what he said.

I didn't ask if they had problems with any earlier version, so maybe that was the info that cg was given without the dealer explaining it?

I'll let you all know tomorrow if pickups go okay. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

bwiese
03-21-2005, 9:44 AM
Hmmm...

[CG, thanks for the praise but I don't know what I "was totally right about"...]

If the Vulcan lower has a large mag permanently affixed, and that large magazine is blocked to 10 rounds permanently, I'm pretty sure DOJ would have little trouble with it.

I would be surprised if the DOJ would approve a fixed-mag AR lower with a large mag that just had a simple sheet metal block inside it that could be removed. (Remember the Colt 5 & 10rd magazines shipped in early 90s with Sporters? They were 20rd mags blocked to 5 or 10 with a sheet metal spacer riveted in place. First thing I removed http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I'd bet Vulcan had something welded/filling in the lower 10rd area of their affixed magazine in order for DOJ to approve it, and that it'd be a nightmare to change it/replace it/rework it.

The whole concept of what DOJ does & doesn't like about receivers that fit ARs & AKs revolves around permanance of modification and difficulty of reconfiguration. If it takes a person of average skills lotsa special machine work, time, jigs, etc. then it's no longer a banned AR or AK receiver anymore, it's just too different, not capable of AW use, and modifying one would entail work of a similar scale to manufacturing a whole new receiver.


Bill Wiese
San Jose

bwiese
03-21-2005, 9:46 AM
CG..

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> also received e-mail from GB sales saying that in about two months they will have .308 Bushmasters available once they get the DOJ approval; no price yet, but I am sure it will be high. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes. Unfortunately Bushmasters do not have chrome-lined barrels.

GB Sales could do this with Armalites too if they cared to. I think the Armalite AR10 is a more tested concept - bugs worked out over past 10+ years - than Bushy's....



Bill Wiese
San Jose

C.G.
03-21-2005, 11:17 AM
I don't think I am wrong about Vulcan, because Sonoma Arms ended selling me complete Armalite lower with a Fab 10 with a good discount, because they could not get anybody to answer at Shoeless to get one and they could not sell me the Vulcan for the reasons stated above. I don't think they would offer a great discount otherwise. So far I found Sonoma Arms good to deal with and don't think they have a reason to lie, whereas Vulcan reputation, if you read AR-15.com is not that great.
As far as kudos to you, Bill, I am sure you touched the topic of the blocked off twenty rounders not too long ago, although I don't remember the thread.

imported_MaxQ
03-21-2005, 12:29 PM
cg - No offense intended. I'm not questioning you or your ffl. That's why I wondered if there was some earlier version in dispute.

I typically give the benefit of the doubt and never accuse or insinuate that someone is lying unless I have incontrovertible (you know, no need for the jury to retire http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) proof. Innocent errors usually far exceed lies in my experience.

Anyway, back in January while speaking with the DOJ about my own designs, they told me that only two companies had recently gotten approval for lowers - Vulcan/Hesse and Evans Gunsmithing.

So, with 3 sources - DOJ (January), Vulcan (today) and my ffl (who's heard nothing about a recall as of this morning), I have to assume (and hope) that there's some miscommunication somewhere.

Vulcan's reputation is all too well known, but we're kinda limited as to suppliers... To me, it's definitely worth a try.

Again, I'll know for sure tomorrow. I'll try to post a pic, too.

C.G.
03-21-2005, 5:31 PM
MaxQ, really no offense was taken whatsoever, after all you didn't call me any names; this is what happened to me and I was just trying to pass that on - that is why we have these boards. By reading on AR-15.com I learned a lot (as well as from this forum), because eventually there is a pattern about products, manufacturers or dealers. And every now and then I learn something from that; i. e. Bill Wiese's comment about AR-10 has been making .308 a lot longer than Bushmaster and have the bugs worked out (I am more to try to get than than a Bushmaster, if I can) or I narrowed down my AR-15 choice between Bushmaster or Armalite, went with Armalite and am very happy, don't think I would be if I went with my original choice. Anyway, I or Sonoma could be wrong, but if you see more postings about this, either way, you will be more likely to make the right decision. Couple decades ago people could disagree, not be militant about it and still be friends. I am getting off the soap box now! http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Mr331
03-21-2005, 7:26 PM
CG, I'm confused as to what you did get. I have looked over your posts 4 times. Did you get and Armalite upper with the Fab10 lower. Origanlly you said Sonoma could not get a fab 10 for you. I'M CONFUSED! MAKE IT STOP! http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

C.G.
03-21-2005, 8:11 PM
Mr. 331, originally I wanted a stripped FAB-10 lower, which is what they couldn't get; however, they had one complete Armalite lower (with FAB-10 receiver in lieu of Armalite receiver, but the rest Armalite parts)in stock on which they gave me a good deal, because they felt bad about taking my money and not coming up with a stripped lower. It was a good compromise; they didn't have to eat the money for the DROS they already submitted; I didn't have to wonder where I would get a stripped lower (I would rather have the FAB-10, the finish is better). I certainly will do business with Sonoma Firearms again.

gidddy169
03-21-2005, 8:54 PM
A complete Armalite lower? What do the Armalite lowers look like?

Mr331
03-21-2005, 9:10 PM
Do you mean a Fab 10 lower completed with Armalite trigger parts and stock?

C.G.
03-22-2005, 11:16 AM
Yes.

bwiese
03-22-2005, 11:33 AM
Whew.

Had me going for a sec. Either someone had an illegal Armalite lower, or it was a FAB10 lower with Armalite firecontrol parts.

Glad it was the latter http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BTW, good that you got quality name-brand fire control parts. Gunshow small parts are not always the greatest - esp springs.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

jmlivingston
03-22-2005, 12:43 PM
Since the topic is here, I've seen some adds in the latest CDNN flier for what appear to be Armalite collapsible stocks. I'm thinking about ordering one as I start to build my .50 on my DPMS receiver I bought last year.

Are these good quality?

jmlivingston
03-22-2005, 8:37 PM
I LIKE it! I wasn't so much interested in a collapsing stock, it's just all that was in the CDNN catalog except for Colt SP1 and A2 buttstocks. Neither of which I was interested in. I'm placing an order with them anyways and since the collapsables were on sale figured I'd go ahead and get one if they were of decent quality.

But I really like that modstock, it looks really slick. I'm thinking the green furniture with the black buttpad and a black pistol grip.... Black and green, to match my CZ75 Tactical. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thanks Ted!