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oldschool88
08-02-2009, 11:17 AM
So I know that when I go to buy a handgun I will need a 2nd form of identification. My question is, can I use my Direct Tv bill as that 2nd form? Right now I don't have anything else with my info on it, so I am hoping this is ok.

Lucky Scott
08-02-2009, 11:18 AM
No car registration?

oldschool88
08-02-2009, 11:22 AM
I do, but they are reg. to my parents house. I really didn't want to have to change them.

fr0ng
08-02-2009, 11:26 AM
Can an out of state CCW permit be used as a second form of ID?

eldy
08-02-2009, 11:33 AM
I do, but they are reg. to my parents house. I really didn't want to have to change them.

Use your lease agreement for wherever you are living, otherwise a power or water bill with an address that matches your state ID.

Can an out of state CCW permit be used as a second form of ID?

No, the second ID is used to verify residency.

B Strong
08-02-2009, 11:34 AM
Can an out of state CCW permit be used as a second form of ID?

If it had your California address on it I believe that it would.

SJgunguy24
08-02-2009, 11:43 AM
Any utility bill (hard service lines only) PG&E, Phone(not cell), Comcast cable/ Dish/ Direct TV, FFL that has the same address as your photo ID is accecptable.

rogdigity
08-02-2009, 11:47 AM
i went through this whole shpeel at one point with my dealer and it turns out you cant use an ffl as a second form of id...... very interested to know why the atf/doj doesnt recognize an atf/doj certificate as a form of id. oddly enough, a certificate of elidgability doesnt count as a form of id either. i know that if ou have one you dont need a second form of id, but one again, the atf/doj doesnt recognize their own certificates as froms of id.

also, cell phone bills are no good. it has to be land-locked phone, cable, internet, water, gas, electric, trash, car registration, military id, state id, federal id, LEO id. i think there are some more but those are the main ones they want you to bring. i had to go get a new copy of my drivers license with my new address on it when i bought my last pistol because all of my bills are in my wifes name and all the guns are in mine and the only form i had was registration.

CA Gun Laws Suck
08-02-2009, 11:47 AM
If it had your California address on it I believe that it would.

It would work as long as it was your current residence address.

SJgunguy24
08-02-2009, 11:55 AM
i went through this whole shpeel at one point with my dealer and it turns out you cant use an ffl as a second form of id...... very interested to know why the atf/doj doesnt recognize an atf/doj certificate as a form of id. oddly enough, a certificate of elidgability doesnt count as a form of id either. i know that if ou have one you dont need a second form of id, but one again, the atf/doj doesnt recognize their own certificates as froms of id.

also, cell phone bills are no good. it has to be land-locked phone, cable, internet, water, gas, electric, trash, car registration, military id, state id, federal id, LEO id. i think there are some more but those are the main ones they want you to bring. i had to go get a new copy of my drivers license with my new address on it when i bought my last pistol because all of my bills are in my wifes name and all the guns are in mine and the only form i had was registration.

The FFL maybe a personal thing with him. AFAIK any government issued license/ID with the same address as your photo ID can be used as a second ID.

rogdigity
08-02-2009, 11:58 AM
ill just wait till i move to texas to buy more pistols...i hear that every time you buy a bottle of whiskey there then they give you a free gun...

rogdigity
08-02-2009, 11:58 AM
... or was it gin??

nick
08-02-2009, 12:01 PM
Pity I didn't know about out-of-state CCW permit. COuldn't use my car registration yesterday (it expired, and I forgot to take the new one with me). I did have my Utah permit with me, but didn't know I could use it. It has my address on it.

Has anyone ever called DOJ to see if this would work though, or is it speculations at this point?

rogdigity
08-02-2009, 12:11 PM
Has anyone ever called DOJ to see if this would work though, or is it speculations at this point?

very likely that it is all dependant on the dealer

oldschool88
08-02-2009, 12:18 PM
Use your lease agreement for wherever you are living, otherwise a power or water bill with an address that matches your state ID.


Thats the problem, my landlord is a family friend and they pay all utilities (I live on one of their extra properties). I just kind of have a verbal agreement with them. We watch their house when they aren't home and get dirt cheap rent in exchange. I might just have them write up a rent agreement and see if that works.

Z ME FLY
08-02-2009, 12:28 PM
i went through this whole shpeel at one point with my dealer and it turns out you cant use an ffl as a second form of id...... very interested to know why the atf/doj doesnt recognize an atf/doj certificate as a form of id. oddly enough, a certificate of elidgability doesnt count as a form of id either. i know that if ou have one you dont need a second form of id, but one again, the atf/doj doesnt recognize their own certificates as froms of id.

also, cell phone bills are no good. it has to be land-locked phone, cable, internet, water, gas, electric, trash, car registration, military id, state id, federal id, LEO id. i think there are some more but those are the main ones they want you to bring. i had to go get a new copy of my drivers license with my new address on it when i bought my last pistol because all of my bills are in my wifes name and all the guns are in mine and the only form i had was registration.


I thought if you had an c&r you can use that as a 2nd form of ID?

ke6guj
08-02-2009, 12:32 PM
Can an out of state CCW permit be used as a second form of ID?

As long as it has your correct address on it, it should meet CADOJ's regulations for POR.

i went through this whole shpeel at one point with my dealer and it turns out you cant use an ffl as a second form of id...... very interested to know why the atf/doj doesnt recognize an atf/doj certificate as a form of id. oddly enough, a certificate of elidgability doesnt count as a form of id either. i know that if ou have one you dont need a second form of id, but one again, the atf/doj doesnt recognize their own certificates as froms of id.
I ran into that issue once. A quick call to CADOJ to confirm a C&R FFL did meet POR fixed that dealer up right away.

I thought if you had an c&r you can use that as a 2nd form of ID?
yes, CADOJ says that a C&R works as POR. But your local dealer may or may not accept it.



d. "Other evidence of residency as permitted by the Department of Justice" means either of the following:
1. A current, government-issued (city, county, special district, state, or federal) license, permit, or registration, other than a California Driver License or California Identification Card, that has a specified expiration date or period of validity. The license, permit, or registration must bear the individual's name and either of the following:
A. The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form.
B. The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/chapter4.pdf

nick
08-02-2009, 12:44 PM
Hmm, then even a fishing license should meet it, depending on the store:

1. Current address - check
2. Government issued - check
3. Has expiration date - check
4. Permit - check
5. Has the name on it - check

Wouldn't that be funny to come to, say, Turner's, and when asked for the second form of ID, buy a fishing license from them and provide it as POR :)

rogdigity
08-02-2009, 12:47 PM
yes, CADOJ says that a C&R works as POR. But your local dealer may or may not accept it.




well, dechiel firearms down in chula vista doesnt take it. once again, its most likely dealer discretion. but i was able to buy rifles from him with my C&R as normal. good guy. ive done lots of buisness with him now

ke6guj
08-02-2009, 12:48 PM
Nope, fishing/hunting licenses do not meet POR. The CADOJ FAQ mentions this. It is not .gov issued. A 3rd party actually issues the license, .gov merely provides the blank cards.


What documentation is acceptable to demonstrate proof of residency for handgun purchasers?


<snip>

Examples of documents that are NOT acceptable proof of residency:

Hunting or fishing license (these documents are not issued by the government).
Cellular phone bill. http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs.php#33G

ke6guj
08-02-2009, 12:50 PM
well, dechiel firearms down in chula vista doesnt take it. once again, its most likely dealer discretion. but i was able to buy rifles from him with my C&R as normal. good guy. ive done lots of buisness with him now

Like I said, your dealer may or may not accept it. But a quick call to CADOJ asking them while at the dealer and then having CADOJ explain it to them often helps.

rogdigity
08-02-2009, 12:51 PM
Nope, fishing/hunting licenses do not meet POR. The CADOJ FAQ mentions this. It is not .gov issued. A 3rd party actually issues the license, .gov merely provides the blank cards.

way to spoil that idea... its was such a good thought


and never heard of a quick call

nick
08-02-2009, 1:31 PM
Nope, fishing/hunting licenses do not meet POR. The CADOJ FAQ mentions this. It is not .gov issued. A 3rd party actually issues the license, .gov merely provides the blank cards.


http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs.php#33G

Ah, good info, thank you.

Gotta try and use my CCW then and see if it works with the dealers I go to. Beats having to remember to take the car registration for the car I don't normally drive.

ke6guj
08-02-2009, 1:43 PM
Gotta try and use my CCW then and see if it works with the dealers I go to. .yup, see if it works. It does appear to qualify as POR as a state-issued license. But I have heard people saying that "state-issued" means the State of CA only, no other states. So, see what your FFL says about the matter on what he'll accept. Oh, and some dealers do accept fishing/hunting licenses as POR, even though CADOJ says it don't meet POR.

barrykay
08-02-2009, 8:26 PM
If it had your California address on it I believe that it would.

Sorry to say it cannot be used for this reason. California does not recognized any out of state CCW. Therefore in the eyes of California it is not a legal document for the that purpose.:rolleyes:

nick
08-04-2009, 7:42 PM
Sorry to say it cannot be used for this reason. California does not recognized any out of state CCW. Therefore in the eyes of California it is not a legal document for the that purpose.:rolleyes:

It does have my CA address on it, it is government-issued, and it does have my name and expiration date on it. So why not?

nick
08-04-2009, 8:49 PM
Update: Just tried using my Utah CCW at Reseda Turner's. They were reasonable about it. They didn't think it could be used, but conditionally accepted it, pending a call to DOJ tomorrow. If DOJ says no, I'll have to call them myself again and inquire what exactly they base this on, for the letter of the law is pretty clear.

Rekrab
08-04-2009, 8:53 PM
Thats the problem, my landlord is a family friend and they pay all utilities (I live on one of their extra properties). I just kind of have a verbal agreement with them. We watch their house when they aren't home and get dirt cheap rent in exchange. I might just have them write up a rent agreement and see if that works.

Do you not have a job? A W2 works.

nick
08-04-2009, 9:13 PM
Do you not have a job? A W2 works.

That'd be odd, for W-2 isn't government-issued. Besides, it has my SSN on it. Regardless, I intend to use a Utah CCW. I'm a bit tired of all the FUD surrounding second form of ID, when the law is, for a change, quite clear. Moreover, I have a very tight and hectic schedule, so I hardly ever know in advance when I'll be able to go to the gun store. I don't want to keep a bunch of documents with me at all times. A CCW permit is in my wallet, as well as CDL and HSC certificate.

thefurball
08-05-2009, 5:46 AM
I thought if you had an c&r you can use that as a 2nd form of ID?

I use my C&R as a second ID. It has been questioned from time to time but so far accepted in the end.

I would suggest you call the store first, talk to the manager and ask.

Write their name down as well and take it with you so that if the clerk has other ideas you will know who to ask for.

nick
08-05-2009, 7:41 PM
Update - Turner's manager called DOJ, and sure enough DOJ said that using a Utah CCW as a second form of ID is a no-no. Gotta call DOJ myself now and ask what exactly they base this on.

ke6guj
08-05-2009, 7:45 PM
figured they'd say that. I'd point them to their own regulations on the matter, http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/chapter4.pdf

d. "Other evidence of residency as permitted by the Department of Justice" means either of the following:
1. A current, government-issued (city, county, special district, state, or federal) license, permit, or registration, other than a California Driver License or California Identification Card, that has a specified expiration date or period of validity. The license, permit, or registration must bear the individual's name and either of the following:
A. The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form.
B. The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto

Sounds like they want it to include only CA "state" permits, licenses, etc, but I don't see the regs limiting it to CA only.

nick
08-05-2009, 7:52 PM
That's what I'm planning to talk to them about.

barrykay
08-05-2009, 8:45 PM
Update - Turner's manager called DOJ, and sure enough DOJ said that using a Utah CCW as a second form of ID is a no-no. Gotta call DOJ myself now and ask what exactly they base this on.

Question: What part of the English language do you not understand?:chris:

I have told you why in a previous post.:TFH:

nick
08-05-2009, 11:10 PM
Question: What part of the English language do you not understand?:chris:

I have told you why in a previous post.:TFH:

I did not find your explanation reasonable or acceptable. Where in the law does it say "State of CA issued ID, and none others"? Does that answer your question? :)