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View Full Version : Why no beavertail on the BHP?


pullnshoot25
07-31-2009, 5:05 PM
Anyone know why the venerable John Moses Browning decided to forgo using a beavertail on the Hi Power? Was there a patent issue? A specific design issue? What?

Just curious...

-N8

dfletcher
07-31-2009, 5:10 PM
Not certain, but I think the BHP was originally designed with a Commander styles round hammer spur and the existing tang considered sufficient. I have large hands and a few BHPs with the standard spur hammer, not had a problem with hammer bite.

CSDGuy
07-31-2009, 5:19 PM
JMB probably noticed that there's a bit of clearance between the hammer and the hand, and saw that there was no need for a beavertail on the Hi-Power. And so he left the beavertail feature off...

pullnshoot25
07-31-2009, 5:21 PM
Not certain, but I think the BHP was originally designed with a Commander styles round hammer spur and the existing tang considered sufficient. I have large hands and a few BHPs with the standard spur hammer, not had a problem with hammer bite.

It works fine with me with the spur hammer as well. However, a beavertail is kind of nice to have...

Fantasma
07-31-2009, 5:36 PM
The one on my CZ75B SA is nice!!!

Black_Talon
07-31-2009, 5:50 PM
a beavertail is kind of nice to have...

I suspect one of the reasons you don't see them as aftermarket parts is that they need to be silver-soldered/welded on. It's a rather major, labor-intensive operation that also requires refinishing the frame. Not nearly as easy as the (for the most part) nearly drop-in grip safety on the 1911.

Gem1950
07-31-2009, 6:45 PM
"Anyone know why the venerable John Moses Browning decided to forgo using a beavertail on the Hi Power? Was there a patent issue? A specific design issue? What?"

When was the "Beavertail" developed? Prior to 1926? I don't think so.

pullnshoot25
07-31-2009, 6:47 PM
"Anyone know why the venerable John Moses Browning decided to forgo using a beavertail on the Hi Power? Was there a patent issue? A specific design issue? What?"

When was the "Beavertail" developed? Prior to 1926? I don't think so.

The 1911 has one...

dfletcher
07-31-2009, 6:50 PM
Now they do, but the earlier models, including all the way up to about 1970, had a pretty narrow and short simple tang. What we think of as a beavertail grip safety is a relatively new addition to the 1911.

Gem1950
07-31-2009, 6:54 PM
The 1911 has one...

The tang on the grip safety on the 1911 is just that - the tang.

A "Beavertail" grip safety has a custom shaped tang that is shaped like a beavertail...thus the name.

Gem1950
07-31-2009, 7:14 PM
I believe that Mr. Browning did not put the grip safety on the Hi-Power (P-35) because it was a "dumb" idea/feature that the U.S. Army made him include in the 1911 design.

ScottB
07-31-2009, 8:29 PM
I believe that Mr. Browning did not put the grip safety on the Hi-Power (P-35) because it was a "dumb" idea/feature that the U.S. Army made him include in the 1911 design.

Bingo.

Addition of a grip safety was a requirement of the US Army

pullnshoot25
07-31-2009, 8:32 PM
Bingo.

Addition of a grip safety was a requirement of the US Army

Rumor has it that the safety was added so that the gun did not go off if and when a cavalryman was dismounted.

Revamping my question... why did JMB not give the BHP a tang, even a minuscule one like the original 1911's?

ScottB
07-31-2009, 8:37 PM
I have a High Power and its never bit me. Its probably my sweetest shooting semi. Why mess with success? Just one more thing to snag when drawing
BTW, it does have a small curvature under the slide. Its really not that much different than the 1911 in terms of protecting the web of your hand. The exaggerated beavetails were created by aftermarket pistol smiths. I always thought they were like Cadillac tail fins - more style than substance

pullnshoot25
07-31-2009, 9:17 PM
I have a High Power and its never bit me. Its probably my sweetest shooting semi. Why mess with success? Just one more thing to snag when drawing
BTW, it does have a small curvature under the slide. Its really not that much different than the 1911 in terms of protecting the web of your hand. The exaggerated beavetails were created by aftermarket pistol smiths. I always thought they were like Cadillac tail fins - more style than substance

I don't get bitten by my BHP either, even with the spur hammer (I kind of like the commander ring hammer though...) However, I kind of wish it had a little bit of a bigger one like on the CZ-75 so that other shooters didn't get bitten on it.

B Strong
08-01-2009, 5:33 AM
At the time of the BHP's design, there was no such thing as a "beavertail" back end or safety on an auto loader.

If you want a beavertail on your BHP, go see Novak:

http://www.novaksights.com/browning.htm#Novak_Custom_Deluxe_Beavertail_BHP_Pa ckage

Gem1950
08-01-2009, 5:38 AM
"Revamping my question... why did JMB not give the BHP a tang, even a minuscule one like the original 1911's?"


BTW, it does have a small curvature under the slide. Its really not that much different than the 1911 in terms of protecting the web of your hand. The exaggerated beavetails were created by aftermarket pistol smiths.

There you have it. The grip tang on the BHP is "built-in", if you will, as part of the frame.

Oldnoob
08-01-2009, 6:18 AM
I could be wrong but I don't think JMB design his original 1911 with beavertail. I believe it's something later model been add on. Beavertail might have nothing to do with JMB.

I personally think it's ugly for BHP with a customize tail at the end. Only part I don't like on the original BHP design, is mag disconnect safety (we have the French military to thank for that).

Oldnoob
08-01-2009, 6:26 AM
Here is a HP own by a member from different forum.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/000_2614.jpg

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/000_2612.jpg

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/000_2594.jpg

It has some serious frame job done on it (by Art Leckie).

tankerman
08-01-2009, 7:32 AM
The 1911 has one...
Beavertail does not come on original 1911's, it's a later addition, aftermarket equipment so to speak. A Grip safety and a beavertail are not the same thing.

No beavertail
http://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/image/norica/government-blank-pistol.jpg

Yes, beavertail
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=60&pictureid=245

Gem1950
08-01-2009, 7:46 AM
Correct...accept when they are combined - then it is a Beavertail Grip Safety!

Beavertail does not come on original 1911's, it's a later addition, aftermarket equipment so to speak. A Grip safety and a beavertail are not the same thing.
No beavertail
http://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/image/norica/government-blank-pistol.jpg

Yes, beavertail
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=60&pictureid=245

Gem1950
08-01-2009, 7:50 AM
Only part I don't like on the original BHP design, is mag disconnect safety (we have the French military to thank for that).

That can be easily corrected...by removing it!

tankerman
08-01-2009, 7:56 AM
Correct...accept when they are combined - then it is a Beavertail Grip Safety!
Obviously you missed the point.

Thanks for the valuable input.