PDA

View Full Version : loaded pistol magazines


offthewall85
07-30-2009, 1:43 PM
i have a yes or no question. can i open carry a loaded magazine in my car , i have read all the carry laws for california and i cannot find a clear answer about haveing a loaded magazine in you car (not concealed), with the firearm is in the trunk. i dont want all the PC's, i just want a yes or no answer, thanks alot.

Decoligny
07-30-2009, 2:35 PM
Yes.

Mikeb
07-30-2009, 2:36 PM
I think it matters if your on the way to commit a felony or if you are a gang member.
take care
Mike

stix213
07-30-2009, 2:49 PM
I think it matters if your on the way to commit a felony or if you are a gang member.
take care
Mike

I believe this is correct, since the definition of a loaded firearm is different when you commit a crime than when you are just stopped for a 12031 inspection.

kenjimatic
07-30-2009, 2:54 PM
I believe that if its in your trunk its considered to be in a "locked" container, which means its concealed and cannot have any bullets in the same "container"

This is what I would assume what the law states so dont quote me.. and I'm not a lawyer..

Decoligny
07-30-2009, 4:09 PM
I believe that if its in your trunk its considered to be in a "locked" container, which means its concealed and cannot have any bullets in the same "container"

This is what I would assume what the law states so dont quote me.. and I'm not a lawyer..

There is nothing in the Penal Code that says you can't have the ammunition in the same container.

You can have the ammo right next to the gun, just can't have the gun loaded.

Sam
07-30-2009, 4:23 PM
Loaded magazines may be in the same container as the locked handgun. Loaded magazines elsewhere are ok too.

Jeffu
07-30-2009, 4:23 PM
There is nothing in the Penal Code that says you can't have the ammunition in the same container.

You can have the ammo right next to the gun, just can't have the gun loaded.

how about in an insert in a glock?
http://i23.ebayimg.com/06/i/001/1f/40/41d0_1.JPG

p.s. i am not encouraging but rather just curious how the system works

Librarian
07-30-2009, 4:29 PM
Haven't we had that one already? Technically, since in that position it cannot be fired, that's still not loaded, but I think I could forgive a LEO for that mistake.

Shouldn't get convicted on it, though.

Jeffu
07-30-2009, 4:36 PM
Haven't we had that one already? Technically, since in that position it cannot be fired, that's still not loaded, but I think I could forgive a LEO for that mistake.

Shouldn't get convicted on it, though.

yes! i remember but i'm also hearing a lot of negative things from lawyers + other members as well. and the DA actually filed the case on him so im just curious as what he can use as defense.

dansgold
07-30-2009, 4:46 PM
Based upon my conversations with local LE and an assistant D.A., you can stay out of trouble if you keep the idea in mind that the weapon is consider "loaded" if by "manipulating the weapon and or it's controls" (slide, safety, trigger, etc.) the weapon is capable of being fired, or appears as such to an officer. Based upon this, I was given the following advice:

A round in the chamber (obviously) means it's "loaded" even if it's uncocked, as you can get the weapon to fire simply by manipulating it correctly.
A fully-inserted magazine is considered "loaded" even if no rounds are chambered ... same reasoning.
A partially-inserted magazine is considered "loaded", even if no round could be chambered without first fully-inserting it, as it appears to be loaded, and there is no way to be certain at a glance that it is not.
A fully or partially inserted EMPTY magazine is considered "loaded" until the officer determines that it is not. In such a case, you still may be in trouble for "brandishing or displaying a loaded weapon" as it appears to be so.

MiguelS
07-30-2009, 7:41 PM
So, I have three mags and they are all unloaded. Two are sitting in the box and the third is inserted into the gun.

All this is in a container "closed" with no key lock. I don't have a trunk, but my seats are all down in the back, because I have a large dog crate back there. I have the container with gun and mags contained in a side webbing. Is this okay?

offthewall85
07-30-2009, 7:48 PM
no i think you must have it in a locked box, and about the mag in the firearm, i would say no to that

Decoligny
07-31-2009, 9:27 AM
So, I have three mags and they are all unloaded. Two are sitting in the box and the third is inserted into the gun.

All this is in a container "closed" with no key lock. I don't have a trunk, but my seats are all down in the back, because I have a large dog crate back there. I have the container with gun and mags contained in a side webbing. Is this okay?

No, you now have a concealed firearm that is not exempt from PC 12025 because it is not fully enclosed and locked inside a secure container.

Decoligny
07-31-2009, 9:33 AM
Based upon my conversations with local LE and an assistant D.A., you can stay out of trouble if you keep the idea in mind that the weapon is consider "loaded" if by "manipulating the weapon and or it's controls" (slide, safety, trigger, etc.) the weapon is capable of being fired, or appears as such to an officer. Based upon this, I was given the following advice:

A round in the chamber (obviously) means it's "loaded" even if it's uncocked, as you can get the weapon to fire simply by manipulating it correctly.
A fully-inserted magazine is considered "loaded" even if no rounds are chambered ... same reasoning.
A partially-inserted magazine is considered "loaded", even if no round could be chambered without first fully-inserting it, as it appears to be loaded, and there is no way to be certain at a glance that it is not.
A fully or partially inserted EMPTY magazine is considered "loaded" until the officer determines that it is not. In such a case, you still may be in trouble for "brandishing or displaying a loaded weapon" as it appears to be so.

There is no Penal Code that distinguishes a loaded firearm from an unloaded firearm when it comes to "brandishing", in fact the Penal Code actually says it doesn't matter one way or the other. And the other thing is, just carrying a firearm cannot be considered brandishing. It has to be done in a rude, angry, or threatening manner. None of those apply to any of the carry/transport options that have been discussed here.

417. (a) (1) Every person who, except in self-defense, in the presence of any other person, draws or exhibits any deadly weapon whatsoever, other than a firearm, in a rude, angry, or threatening manner, or who in any manner, unlawfully uses a deadly weapon other than a firearm in any fight or quarrel is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than 30 days.
(2) Every person who, except in self-defense, in the presence of any other person, draws or exhibits any firearm, whether loaded or unloaded, in a rude, angry, or threatening manner, or who in any manner, unlawfully uses a firearm in any fight or quarrel is punishable as follows:
(A) If the violation occurs in a public place and the firearm is a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than three months and not more than one year, by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
(B) In all cases other than that set forth in subparagraph (A), a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than three months.
(b) Every person who, except in self-defense, in the presence of any other person, draws or exhibits any loaded firearm in a rude, angry, or threatening manner, or who, in any manner, unlawfully uses any loaded firearm in any fight or quarrel upon the grounds of any day care center, as defined in Section 1596.76 of the Health and Safety Code, or any facility where programs, including day care programs or recreational programs, are being conducted for persons under 18 years of age, including programs conducted by a nonprofit organization, during the hours in which the center or facility is open for use, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for 16 months, or two or three years, or by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than three months, nor more than one year.
(c) Every person who, in the immediate presence of a peace officer, draws or exhibits any firearm, whether loaded or unloaded, in a rude, angry, or threatening manner, and who knows, or reasonably should know, by the officer's uniformed appearance or other action of identification by the officer, that he or she is a peace officer engaged in the performance of his or her duties, and that peace officer is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than nine months and not to exceed one year, or in the state prison.
(d) Except where a different penalty applies, every person who violates this section when the other person is in the process of cleaning up graffiti or vandalism is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than three months nor more than one year.
(e) As used in this section, "peace officer" means any person designated as a peace officer pursuant to Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2.
(f) As used in this section, "public place" means any of the following:
(1) A public place in an incorporated city.
(2) A public street in an incorporated city.
(3) A public street in an unincorporated area.

J-cat
07-31-2009, 10:20 AM
i have a yes or no question. can i open carry a loaded magazine in my car , i have read all the carry laws for california and i cannot find a clear answer about haveing a loaded magazine in you car (not concealed), with the firearm is in the trunk. i dont want all the PC's, i just want a yes or no answer, thanks alot.

Yes. You can even conceal carry the magazine. If you have read all the carry laws, you'd see a clear answer in PC 12031:

(g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of
this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell,
consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or
shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but
not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof
attached to the firearm

Decoligny
07-31-2009, 11:23 AM
Yes. You can even conceal carry the magazine. If you have read all the carry laws, you'd see a clear answer in PC 12031:

(g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of
this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell,
consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or
shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but
not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof
attached to the firearm

You need to read People V. Hale.

In that case law they concluded that the magazine was an integral part of the firearm, and a concealed magazine was the equivalent of a concealed firearm.

J-cat
07-31-2009, 9:51 PM
You need to read the original post. The gun is locked in the trunk. You can carry a loaded magazine concealed on your person legally. In CA, the receiver constitutes the firearm, not the magazine.