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trever1t
06-29-2005, 9:44 AM
Wish me luck! Tomorrow at 4pm two ATF agents will be at my home to interview me about my C&R application and background history.
I was a bit of a problem in my youth (17-21) but have been a good citizen for 20+ years.
Anyhow, now it is time to face judgement for my previous indescretions!

Question: What rights to privacy do i have after allowing the ATF into my home? Can they demand to open my safe?

I dont have any illegal weapons but am very uncomfortable with allowing them full access to my "shop".

What other rights or lack of do i have/not have?

stillbigmac
06-29-2005, 10:46 AM
Relax,

I was no angel.. if your eligable to own firearms your going to be OK.

They are not going to want to look in your safe. This is an interview, not an inspection.

trever1t
06-29-2005, 11:09 AM
Thanks stillbigbac!
Can you tell i'm sweating it out?

I have purchased many firarms legally from shops in the area and never had a problem.

I hope that's all!

BigRich
06-29-2005, 12:15 PM
Trever1t,
Relax. The ATF folks are just doing a "due diligence" visit to see who is getting the C&R FFL. They will be looking at what kind of security you will be providing and the environment for the licensed address. i.e. they want to make sure the ffl won't be in the middle of a school or prison and that the guns won't be stored out on the porch. Their rules have changed since they went under Homeland Defense. They now have to check ALL the boxes. If you are an upstanding citizen you won't have any trouble.

Mike
06-29-2005, 12:54 PM
Not meaning to nit-pick, but weren't the ATF assimilated into the US Dept of Justice? I could (very easily) be wrong....

http://www.atf.gov/about/atfhistory.htm
"Effective January 24, 2003, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) was transferred under the Homeland Security bill to the Department of Justice. The law enforcement functions of ATF under the Department of the Treasury were transferred to the Department of Justice. The tax and trade functions of ATF will remain in the Treasury Department with the new Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau.

In addition, the agency's name was changed to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) to reflect it new mission in the Department of Justice. "

And I see that this (http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?theme=13) makes up DHS?

DHS Agencies


Department Subcomponents and Agencies

Homeland Security leverages resources within federal, state, and local governments, coordinating the transition of multiple agencies and programs into a single, integrated agency focused on protecting the American people and their homeland. More than 87,000 different governmental jurisdictions at the federal, state, and local level have homeland security responsibilities. The comprehensive national strategy seeks to develop a complementary system connecting all levels of government without duplicating effort. Homeland Security is truly a “national mission”.

The following list comprises of the major components that make up the Department of Homeland Security:

Office of the Secretary
The staff functions in the Office of the Secretary oversee activities with other federal, state, local, and private entities as part of a collaborative effort to strengthen our borders, provide for intelligence analysis and infrastructure protection, improve the use of science and technology to counter weapons of mass destruction, and to create a comprehensive response and recovery division. Within the Office of the Secretary there are multiple offices that contribute to the overall Homeland Security mission.

Office of the Chief Privacy Officer
Office of Civil Rights and Civil Liberties
Office of Counter Narcotics
Office of General Counsel
Office of the Inspector General
Office of Legislative Affairs
Office of National Capital Region Coordination
Office of the Private Sector
Office of Public Affairs
Office of Security
Office of State and Local Government Coordination and Preparedness


Border and Transportation Security (BTS)
Border and Transportation Security (BTS) secures our nation’s borders and transportation systems and enforces the nation’s immigration laws.

Transportation Security Administration (TSA) - http://www.tsa.gov
Customs and Border Protection - http://www.cbp.gov
Immigration and Customs Enforcement - http://www.ice.gov
Federal Law Enforcement Training Center - http://www.fletc.gov


Emergency Preparedness and Response (EP&R)
Emergency Preparedness and Response (EP&R), building on the long and solid track record of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), ensures that our nation is prepared for incidents, whether natural disasters or terrorist assaults, and oversees the federal government’s national response and recovery strategy.

Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) - http://www.fema.gov


Information Analysis and Infrastructure Protection (IAIP)
Terrorists strive to exploit national weaknesses and search for unprotected areas to attack. Information Analysis and Infrastructure Protection (IAIP) helps deter, prevent, and mitigate acts of terrorism by assessing vulnerabilities in the context of continuously changing threats. IAIP strengthens the nation’s protective posture and disseminates timely and accurate information to our federal, state, local, private, and international partners.

Homeland Security Operations Center (HSOC)
Information Analysis (IA)
Infrastructure Protection (IP)


Science and Technology (S&T)
The Directorate of Science and Technology (S&T) serves as the primary research and development arm of Homeland Security, using our nation’s scientific and technological resources to provide federal, state, and local officials with the technology and capabilities to protect the homeland. The focus is on catastrophic terrorism—threats to the security of our homeland that could result in large-scale loss of life and major economic impact. S&T’s work is designed to counter those threats, both by evolutionary improvements to current technological capabilities and development of revolutionary, new technological capabilities.

Office of National Laboratories
Homeland Security Laboratories
Homeland Security Advanced Research Projects Agency (HSARPA)


Office of Management
The Under Secretary for Management is responsible for the budget, appropriations, expenditure of funds, accounting and finance, procurement, information technology systems, facilities, property, equipment, other material resources, and the identification and tracking of performance measurements relating to the responsibilities of Homeland Security.

U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS)
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) ensures that America continues to welcome visitors, refugees, immigrants, asylum seekers, and new citizens while protecting the nation from terrorism, unlawful entrants, and illegal residents. USCIS is made up of 15,000 employees in 250 offices worldwide and is largely subsidized by revenue generated from fees paid for immigration benefits. Within USCIS, the Office of Citizenship was established to develop and implement public outreach and education initiatives to promote U.S. citizenship.

U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services
Office of Citizenship
National Customer Service Center


U.S. Coast Guard
The U.S. Coast Guard protects the public, the environment, and U.S. economic interests—in the nation’s ports and waterways, along the coast, on international waters, or in any maritime region as required to support national security.

U.S. Secret Service (USSS)
The U.S. Secret Service (USSS) is responsible for the protection of the President, our nation’s leaders, as well as our country’s financial and critical infrastructures, USSS is a crucial component of Homeland Security. USSS is organized into two major components, one focused on protection and the other focused on investigation.

Sorry to hijack the thread Trever1t.....however I'm sure you'll do just fine...

zatoh
06-29-2005, 1:37 PM
I finally got my C&R renewal. I too was concerned that I would have to interview with the BATFE even though I have a "sedate" (some say boring) past. I hate interviews. I sent my renewal in on 4/29 and got it 6/28. Granted I waited until close to my expiration date, so it serves me right.

Whoo-hooo! Watch out credit card, here I come!.... Let's see... AIM, Century, Centerfire...oh yeah, Empire has some nice tidbits....

Good luck in your interview!

imported_Telpierion
06-29-2005, 4:13 PM
I'd be surprised if the people who visit are actual "agents" and not some sort of administrative type.

trever1t
06-29-2005, 4:52 PM
Well they are supposed to be "Investigators" from the local SJ office.
They wouldn't divulge much on the phone when i asked for specifics but gave me the old "prefer to discuss this in person".
We'll see tomorrow!

bwiese
06-29-2005, 4:54 PM
Record everything.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

trever1t
06-29-2005, 5:30 PM
I dont have a recorder BUT i will have a close friend to witness the event and lend moral support (to make sure i keep my big mouth shut!)

BigAL
06-29-2005, 6:43 PM
I thought ATF inspections for C&R licenses were all a myth. I never heard anything from ATF until they finally sent me my license, no phone calls, no inspections, no interviews.

Pthfndr
06-29-2005, 7:28 PM
Make sure you post tomorrow night about how the interview went. First time I've heard of a pre licensing interview for a C&R license.

Rascal
06-29-2005, 9:23 PM
Originally posted by trever1t:
I dont have a recorder BUT i will have a close friend to witness the event and lend moral support (to make sure i keep my big mouth shut!)

Go out and buy one. Tell them that you will be recording the interview.Those little hand held models don't cost that much.
Go out and buy one.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Turbinator
06-30-2005, 9:38 AM
Can you use a PC and a microphone to record the interview? Or how about a video camera?

Turby

trever1t
06-30-2005, 5:08 PM
So as it turns out, a "mischievious conduct" charge from 1979 is probably gonna disqualify me for the C&R, and quite likely gun ownership period!!!!!!
I was 17/18 years old, did zero jail time, 1 year probation and that's it!! Unfortunately for me the sentence carries a MAXIMUM of 5 years!! Jeez, that's silly, i was a kid and i stole some food!
I am contacting the Attorney General of the State and going to see what i can do about this, either expunge or modify the conviction?
Anyone have any experience or suggestions?
By the way, the ATF guys were really nice and friendly, they even thought it was a bumm rap!

Mike Searson
06-30-2005, 5:20 PM
Damn.

Was it a felony?

bwiese
06-30-2005, 5:31 PM
If it's not a felony, you can get that expunged.

On the other hand, does the fact that sentence could span beyond a year stop it from being a misdemeanor??

Talk to a lawyer, don't be garage-sale cheap like half the people here.

Expungements are filed in the local court you were convicted in. If this was outta state, you gotta go there and get that set up.

Now as I recall (someone please correct me!), CA law simply bans felons from gun possession, but Federal law has the more complex condition of "... or convicted of a crime where you could possibly be sentenced to more than one year."

Without a felony, you don't need pardon + your civil rights restored.

Cops whose gun use was banned due to domestic violence misdemeanors were able to get them expunged, and get their gun rights back.

Good luck, we're rootin' for you!

Bill Wiese
San Jose

Pthfndr
06-30-2005, 5:38 PM
Don't call the AG's office! Find a good criminal attorney who can help you determine if you need to have your rights restored. PAY a professional to do it for you if it has to be done so there is no doubt about the outcome.

trever1t
06-30-2005, 6:58 PM
Anyone know a good lawer in the Bay Area that takes trades? LOL
Seriously?

trever1t
06-30-2005, 7:01 PM
Now as I recall (someone please correct me!), CA law simply bans felons from gun possession, but Federal law has the more complex condition of "... or convicted of a crime where you could possibly be sentenced to more than one year."

Without a felony, you don't need pardon + your civil rights restored.


NONONO No Felony! a simple misdemenor! The Misdemenor apparently carried a maximum sentance of 5 years.
I have never commited or been convicted of a FELONY!!

So does this mean i still retain my rights on a state level even though not on a federal level???
Sounds confusing to me!

Mike Searson
06-30-2005, 7:31 PM
Here's a synopsis of California's law:

"It is unlawful for anyone convicted of a felony, or who is a drug addict, present or former mental patient, ever committed for mental observation, or acquitted by reason of insanity to own or possess any firearm. People with certain misdemeanor convictions involving force or violence may not possess or own any firearm within 10 years of the conviction. A person who has been adjudicated as a juvenile offender or delinquent for any offense which would be classified as a felony or misdemeanor involving force or violence if committed by an adult may not own or possess any firearm until age 30. A minor may not possess a handgun except with written permission or under the supervision of a parent or guardian."



OK, so if you are over 30 and/or it's been 10 years of the conviction you should be ok under California Law.

Here's the Federal Law:

"The following classes of people are ineligible to possess, receive, ship, or transport firearms or ammunition:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>Those convicted of crimes punishable by imprisonment for over one year, except state misdemeanors punishable by two years or less.
<LI>Fugitives from justice.
<LI>Unlawful users of certain depressant, narcotic, or stimulant drugs.
<LI>Those adjudicated as mental defectives or incompetents or those committed to any mental institution.
<LI>Illegal aliens.
<LI>Citizens who have renounced their citizenship.
<LI>Those persons dishonorably discharged from the Armed Forces.
<LI>Persons less than 18 years of age for the purchase of a shotgun or rifle.
<LI>Persons less than 21 years of age for the purchase of a firearm that is other than a shotgun or rifle.
<LI>Persons subject to a court order that restrains such persons from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner.
<LI>Persons convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
<LI>Persons under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year are ineligible to receive, transport, or ship any firearm or ammunition.
[/list]

Under limited conditions, relief from disability may be obtained from the U.S. Secretary of the Treasury, or through a pardon, expungement, restoration of rights, or setting aside of a conviction."

Definitely contact a lawyer. I'm pretty sure the Jack Booted Thugs aren't going to kick your door down and take what you own and throw you in jail for breaking the law. However, a youthful mistake like you're talking about should not force you to be unable to have an 03 FFL or have ammo shipped to your house.

Best of luck to you.

trever1t
06-30-2005, 7:38 PM
Any recomendations on a local attorney?
I dont have much money but it'd be worth a bunch to keep my guns-and rights intact!

PS. Thanks everyone for the support and information.

Pthfndr
06-30-2005, 9:22 PM
Originally posted by trever1t:
Any recomendations on a local attorney?
I dont have much money but it'd be worth a bunch to keep my guns-and rights intact!

PS. Thanks everyone for the support and information.

How local? I have the name and number of an attorney who had a table at the Reno gun show. He's in Walnut Creek.

trever1t
07-01-2005, 5:01 AM
Well i am in San Jose but i could talk to him, he might have a refferal for me!

imported_FW10ring
07-01-2005, 6:16 AM
Sorry for my ignorance on this, but the way I read this...

"Persons under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year are ineligible to receive, transport, or ship any firearm or ammunition."

You aren't currently under indictment for this crime. It happened 12/13 years ago.

trever1t
07-01-2005, 6:36 AM
1979 was 26 years ago!!!!
But under Federal law a person can not have been convicted of a crime that would carry a sentence of more than 1 year even though that person received a lesser sentence.

Those convicted of crimes punishable by imprisonment for over one year, except state misdemeanors punishable by two years or less.

gunsnrovers
07-01-2005, 7:14 AM
Good luck.

I sent in my application on March 5 for a C&R. I got a letter in mid-May that their background check turned up a 1992 misdemeanor conviction that they could not locate court records for. I spent $20 and two weeks getting a letter from the court saying that they could not provide additional information as the case was closed and that the files had been destroyed in 1997 (after 5 years).

As I've been buying guns legally since December 1993, I'm not certain what the hold up is, but I'm not a legal expert.

Evidently, Atlanta then sent my file to LA for review. LA was unclear as to why they have been asked to review it which caused more delay.

Now, the LA office has it and I hope to hear from the local investigator next week (he's on vacation until the 5th). I'm curious as to what he will say when we talk.

Hopefully, it will get sorted soon. No reason to think otherwise. So far, all my contacts with the ATF have been great. Quick responses to my voice mails. Easy to follow instructions and courteous contacts. Just typical paperwork snail pace work I guess.

delloro
07-01-2005, 7:20 AM
criminy.

call a friggin' firearms lawyer. chuck michel or bruce colodny.

in a nutshell:

more than one year incarceration as potential sentance is GENERALLY a felony

less than one year GENERALLY a misdemeanor

felony convictions, past or present, DQ you from firearms ownership. some misdemeanors do too.

state rehabilitation is not the same as federal rehabilitation. feds don't care if the state says you are all better now.

call a lawyer who does this stuff.

trever1t
07-01-2005, 7:53 AM
It was a misdenenor.
"Mischievous conduct" one step below "trespass".

I am seeking council for this, thanks for the contacts.

TimG
07-01-2005, 7:55 AM
Shooters bar (http://www.building-tux.com/dsmjd/law/lawr_list.htm) This looks like a good legal resource for gun folks.

trever1t
07-01-2005, 9:34 AM
I have now got an attorney working on restoring my staus right now!
He says that although i may not currently be eligible for a FFL (until i get expunged) I will by no means lose my right to bear arms and collect as i currently do in the state of Ca.

I feel relieved!! http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

bwiese
07-01-2005, 12:04 PM
Well if it's a misdemanor, it can't be over 1 year (by definition, I think (?)).

Some crimes are 'wobblers' that can be charged as felony or misdemeanor. But really they are separate things. You were charged/convicted of a misdemeanor which can't go over 1 year, IIRC.

Please do not try to do this yourself, get a lawyer experienced in expungements, pardons and civil rights restoration(s) - or you could dig yourself in deeper.

BTW you can't retain your rights on a state level in violation of Federal level.


Bill Wiese
San Jose

trever1t
07-01-2005, 12:34 PM
bwise,
you are absolutely correct.
I have retained an attorney today, requests for records already certified mailed out. Contact with the Governor's office to be done tuesday to begin the process of getting a pardon. It is/was a wobbler i guess, a misdemenor which COULD have gotten me a max of 5 years, although i was sentenced to probation for 1 year only.

I realize my possesions are in jeapordy but what can i do in the mean time?
Ball is rolling, where will it stop?

bg
07-02-2005, 11:22 AM
So does this mean i still retain my rights on a state level even though not on a federal level???
Sounds confusing to me!
That sir, is the true reason behind gun laws.
To confuse and in the end to eliminate gun use
and ownership by oxymornic and inane laws.

My question is, if the Feds see any crime that
may be sentenced for longer than 1 yr as a
basis to deny a person firearm rights, what
about a simple DUI, or reckless driving
charge ?

delloro
07-02-2005, 12:57 PM
simple, 1st time DUIs are not punishable by more than one year in the pen. they are not a felony. it is not one of the bad misdemeanors, so it is not an issue.

bg
07-02-2005, 3:53 PM
Don't know if this will help any, but ya might
take a gander..
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12010.htm

pitbull30
07-08-2005, 6:13 PM
Im alittle confused here. So in california if you say did vandalism as a kid but only got probation, But vandalism holds a max charge of 1year in jail. Then you cant own a gun?

The only way you can own the gun is if the charge has been expunged or sealed? Hasnt everyone in one time or another gotten into some trouble as a kid?

Or is this a fedaral thing that only applies to licensing?

I have never heard of such a thing?Maybe Im interpreting this wrong?

Also cant the feds still see the convictions even if they are expunged or sealed?

Anyways, Good luck trever1t

trever1t
07-10-2005, 9:13 AM
In Vermont, "unlaw Mischief" , even though a misdemenor, can carry a max sentance of over one year, California and most other states do not have such a law.
Federal law mandates that anyone who was concted of a crime (they do not say "misdemenor") that can have a max sentance of more than one year is prohibited from owning firearms.
It's a mess and the ATF is the first to admit it is one of those grey areas they hate so much but there it is. ATF's legal department is mulling over the facts right now, I should hear from them in a few weeks reguarding theor decision and what further action they will take.

icormba
07-10-2005, 9:41 AM
Originally posted by pitbull30:
Hasnt everyone in one time or another gotten into some trouble as a kid?

No. http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



... ok, well... never got caught anyway http://calguns.net/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

delloro
07-10-2005, 9:43 AM
a little background is in order here.

in ye olden days of English common law, a felon had no standing under the law. this was likely an evolution of outlawry (I'd have to check). a felon was dispossessed of the incidents of citizenship. could not own land. could not own a firearm. the vestige of that law, which is still forceful today, is that felons may not own guns (generally speaking).

there used to be eight felonies. the Mrs. Baker crimes. life, crime, and punishment was simple and predictable.

Murder
Robbery
Sodomy

Burglary
Arson
Kidnapping
Escape
Rape

nothing else what a felony. those were the felonies, and the pentalty could be more than a year in the pen.

offenses punishable by less than a year were a misdemeanor.

if no incarceration possible, it was an infraction.

thus a simple rule could be established that persons convicted of crimes punishable by more than a year in the pen (felonies) could not have guns.

times have changed since.

there are misdemeanors that can be punishable by more than a year. the newer revisions to the california penal code distinguish those to help avaoid what our friend is going through, but not all PC sections in all states have been brought up to speed, with the unfortunate result we see here.

on the other hand the lautenberg (ptui) amendment retroactively added some misdemeanors to the firearms-prohibiting crime list.

HTH

pitbull30
07-10-2005, 9:55 PM
If I remember correctly, isnt there a question on the CA gun sale form that says something like "have you ever been conviceted of a crime that had the possible sentence of 1 year"?

The only way you are excused is by expunged or sealed record????

This seems like a pretty tough law because in CA you can get up to a year for alot of things.

But then again I know they are trying to keep as many off the street as possible. Just curious..

RRangel
07-10-2005, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by pitbull30:
If I remember correctly, isnt there a question on the CA gun sale form that says something like "have you ever been conviceted of a crime that had the possible sentence of 1 year"?

The only way you are excused is by expunged or sealed record????

This seems like a pretty tough law because in CA you can get up to a year for alot of things.

But then again I know they are trying to keep as many off the street as possible. Just curious..

You mean the yellow form 4473? Everyone has to fill that out when making a purchase from a FFL dealer in the country. The DROS paper work you fill out has different questions, but not that one. The dealer even has to ask you the questions.

1)Has the purchaser ever been convicted of a felony or an offense described in Penal Code Section 12021.1, or 12001.6; or convicted of assault, battery, or other misdemeanor offences specified in penal code section 12021(c)(1) in the last 10 years?

2)Is purchaser a mental patient or on leave of absence from a mental hospital as described in Welfare and Institutions Code Section 8100?

3)Has purchaser ever been adjudicated by a court to be a danger to others, found guilty by reason of insanity, found incompetent to stand trial, or placed under conservatorship, pursuant to Welfare and Institutions Code 8103?

4)Is purchaser currently the subject of any restraining order pursuant to family Code Section 6380?

Unless I'm forgetting something and my DROS paper work is wrong.

pitbull30
07-11-2005, 10:45 AM
yeah that is the one.

trever1t
07-11-2005, 11:58 AM
Exactly. I have not nor ever have been convicted of a felony or one of the misdemenors listed in 12021, but as delloro was saying some states, such as Vermont do things a little "old fashoned" and hence the issue.
California has no comparible law or infraction to compare to. By Ca. law i am ok, still waiting for the Federal decision.

trever1t
07-11-2005, 1:53 PM
Just heard from the ATF, looks like the folks in Boston (ATF folks) say that this misdemenor will disqualify me from owning firearms.
The only hope is a pardon from the State of Vermont, and that is going to take some time!!
Man, this sucks!

imported_booknut
07-12-2005, 10:28 PM
It's late and I may not have read the whole three pages quite right, but,
you said you were 17/18 when this happened?

What about the possibility that you were a juvenile when it occured?
If that's so, then is there any provision from the state to have juvenile records sealed?
Might this be done now?

trever1t
07-13-2005, 7:08 PM
Attorney is looking into the matter (hope) but i was convicted at age 18.
I am sending the ATF my request to withdraw my application in the morning so i can avoid being denied. This is at the advice of my friendly local ATF investigator.

pitbull30
07-13-2005, 8:13 PM
So the only way you are going to get passed this is to have the charge expunged? I guess time since the incident has no factor in decision?

JAFGO
07-13-2005, 9:51 PM
I have purchased many firarms legally from shops in the area and never had a problem.

That's odd that you have DROS'd in the past and were given an OK to purchase firearms, but when the ATF looks into the matter for a C&R application they dig up an old misdemeanor conviction. I always thought both ATF and CA DOJ accessed the same computer record system. Makes me wonder what type of SNAFU would allow the CA DOJ to clear a person that was "technically" disqualified federally for purchase of firearm.

It sounds like that if you never had applied for a C&R license, you or no one else would have been the wiser and you could still be DROS'd and purchase firearms.

Good luck with things.

pitbull30
07-13-2005, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by JAFGO.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I have purchased many firarms legally from shops in the area and never had a problem.

That's odd that you have DROS'd in the past and were given an OK to purchase firearms, but when the ATF looks into the matter for a C&R application they dig up an old misdemeanor conviction. I always thought both ATF and CA DOJ accessed the same computer record system. Makes me wonder what type of SNAFU would allow the CA DOJ to clear a person that was "technically" disqualified federally for purchase of firearm.

It sounds like that if you never had applied for a C&R license, you or no one else would have been the wiser and you could still be DROS'd and purchase firearms.

Good luck with things. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is an interesting point. So lets say this never happened. But later down the line you go to court for a firearms violation or something. Would the DOJ be at fault?

trever1t
07-14-2005, 5:10 AM
It sounds like that if you never had applied for a C&R license, you or no one else would have been the wiser and you could still be DROS'd and purchase firearms.


Correct! Had i known there may be issue........Oh well, even the ATF investigator told me not to kick myself, how could i have known? It was a misdemenor you know!

Hold the DOJ responsible, ha! that's almost funny.

zenthemighty
07-21-2005, 9:42 AM
It may be wise to transfer all your firearms to a (hopefully legal) friend or family member before the batmen make their decision. That would avoid any possible confiscation issues.