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SoCalGal
07-29-2009, 3:00 PM
I am new here and I have truly appreciated everyone's info on the site. Thank you!
I am seeking advice now...(Wasn't sure where to post this.)
Today I was denied a PPT by the owner of Fine Firearms in La Mesa. I was surprised because I thought all licensed dealers are supposed to honor a PPT. Am I wrong?
The guys that I had met there before always seemed happy to take the time to talk with me and look at what I had, and they even told me about Calguns. They had warned me that other local dealers may try to take advantage of me. -I knew I was at risk of being taken advantage of since I am a young woman new to this world, but I thought they were honest and I could trust them.
I understand the process is a pain for dealers because it can take a while and they don't make much money, but I had done two ppt's there before and it always went really fast (about 30min or less). I always tried to respect them each time I went in to do a PPT by making sure they weren't too busy first and I was always patient. I figured I could consign (or outright sell) the guns that I was unable to sell privately to their store. The guys were always so nice that I was trying to think of something nice to do for them in return.

I went in today to do another transfer, and met the owner for the first time. I had brought in four guns to consign and one to do a private party transfer with, but he told me he wouldn't do the transfer. He said he knew who I was and that the guys had only spent time with me because they thought I would consign my guns with them, but "that's obviously not the case." He was really rude and I was shocked to receive such awful treatment.
I was also embarrassed because I had recommended their shop to everyone I met, including the guy that came down from LA to meet me. :o

I had been warned that some greedy dealers might give me a hard time about doing PPTs but I thought I could trust the guys there.
I thought I was actually helping them by bringing more customers into his shop (I was usually the only person there) but he said that everyone in San Diego knows his store and the people I brought in wouldn't buy anything from him since they were buying something from me. -The guy I had brought in today had never even heard of the store and was interested in one of their handguns until he saw how awful the owner was.
When I mentioned that I thought it was the law to honor a PPT, he told me to call the DOJ.
What do I tell the DOJ?
Is there a place in SD that won't give me a hard time with this? I am happy to go in whenever it is convenient for the dealer. I am just trying to obey the law and do this right without being taken advantage of. Part of me feels like I should just put all the guns back in the safe and forget about them for a while, but part of me has hope that there are actually nice FFL's willing to help. I want my grandpa's guns to go to someone who will appreciate them instead of just collecting dust.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time.

professionalcoyotehunter
07-29-2009, 3:04 PM
Dont go back there.

Wrong Forum.

Street_soldier
07-29-2009, 3:05 PM
What kind of firearms do you have for sale

OofieXD
07-29-2009, 3:07 PM
Try Gussler's. You might have to give him a call to set an appointment since he works out of his house, but he'll do a PPT for you no problems.

Gussler's
phone: (619) 258-2543
email: gusslers@gmail.com
Santee, CA 92071

7.62x54R
07-29-2009, 3:08 PM
wow that sucks. sorry i don't have any information i could give since i am fairly new to the gun hobby as well. I'm sure other Calgunners will. Just go to another dealer would be my advice. good luck

norcal77
07-29-2009, 3:09 PM
This is in the wrong forum..it should be in general gun discussions..you will get more answers there.

My advice..call the DOJ and let them know that he denied the PPT. They are required to process the paperwork..whether they like it or not. The license wasn't given to them solely to make a profit..they do have some legal obligations.

1811
07-29-2009, 3:10 PM
Last year...I walked into SoCal gun and Turner's with a bubble wrapped AR-stripped lower...

I was turned down as soon as I put that piece of plutonium nitro oxide onto the counter...

And we we're both LEO's doing a PPT.

Went to Discount Gun...no probs...

+1 on Gusslers...

ChaparralCommando
07-29-2009, 3:10 PM
Wow; I've lived in San Diego Co. my whole life and hadn't heard of them, and now I'm not going there. If they charge a fee to do a PPT, what's the big deal?! Some people are just irrational.

Digital_Boy
07-29-2009, 3:12 PM
I second the recommendation for Gussler's. There are any number of other alternatives if driving to Santee is not convenient for you either. What part of town are you in?

6266guy
07-29-2009, 3:12 PM
Add that place to the no go list :sarcasm: another thing check into doing a consignment sale at any FFL ....you have to sigh over your guns to them, and if by any reason you decide not to sell them or let's say that they don't sell...you have to pay to DROS each one of them back into your name, really sucks, just sell them private party , much less hassle

jvquattro
07-29-2009, 3:13 PM
I would also vouch for Gusslers and Turners in Clairemont.

The shop you went to I would stay away from and also Discount downtown they won't do it either.

6266guy
07-29-2009, 3:14 PM
OR JUST GIVE EM TO ME ...and I will sell em for you...lol...

OofieXD
07-29-2009, 3:15 PM
From my experience, try to stay away from SoCal gun on Convoy, they might do a PPT if they feel like it.

AGOD
07-29-2009, 3:17 PM
I am new here and I have truly appreciated everyone's info on the site. Thank you!
I am seeking advice now...(Wasn't sure where to post this.)
Today I was denied a PPT by the owner of Fine Firearms in La Mesa. I was surprised because I thought all licensed dealers are supposed to honor a PPT. Am I wrong?
The guys that I had met there before always seemed happy to take the time to talk with me and look at what I had, and they even told me about Calguns. They had warned me that other local dealers may try to take advantage of me. -I knew I was at risk of being taken advantage of since I am a young woman new to this world, but I thought they were honest and I could trust them.
I understand the process is a pain for dealers because it can take a while and they don't make much money, but I had done two ppt's there before and it always went really fast (about 30min or less). I always tried to respect them each time I went in to do a PPT by making sure they weren't too busy first and I was always patient. I figured I could consign (or outright sell) the guns that I was unable to sell privately to their store. The guys were always so nice that I was trying to think of something nice to do for them in return.

I went in today to do another transfer, and met the owner for the first time. I had brought in four guns to consign and one to do a private party transfer with, but he told me he wouldn't do the transfer. He said he knew who I was and that the guys had only spent time with me because they thought I would consign my guns with them, but "that's obviously not the case." He was really rude and I was shocked to receive such awful treatment.
I was also embarrassed because I had recommended their shop to everyone I met, including the guy that came down from LA to meet me. :o

I had been warned that some greedy dealers might give me a hard time about doing PPTs but I thought I could trust the guys there.
I thought I was actually helping them by bringing more customers into his shop (I was usually the only person there) but he said that everyone in San Diego knows his store and the people I brought in wouldn't buy anything from him since they were buying something from me. -The guy I had brought in today had never even heard of the store and was interested in one of their handguns until he saw how awful the owner was.
When I mentioned that I thought it was the law to honor a PPT, he told me to call the DOJ.
What do I tell the DOJ?
Is there a place in SD that won't give me a hard time with this? I am happy to go in whenever it is convenient for the dealer. I am just trying to obey the law and do this right without being taken advantage of. Part of me feels like I should just put all the guns back in the safe and forget about them for a while, but part of me has hope that there are actually nice FFL's willing to help. I want my grandpa's guns to go to someone who will appreciate them instead of just collecting dust.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time.

Go to IRON SIGHTS in oceanside, CA (760) 721-4388 Talk to Cris or terry

hawk1
07-29-2009, 3:18 PM
When I mentioned that I thought it was the law to honor a PPT, he told me to call the DOJ.
What do I tell the DOJ?


Call DOJ and explain exactly what happened and that you would expect DOJ to do something about it.

Part of being allowed to sell firearms in California means they must do PPT's. We all understand that $10 is not much, but when you add in the fact that they are given the privilege of selling firearms it adds up to more money. Something many dealers do want to recognize.

ZombieKiller
07-29-2009, 3:19 PM
I will never buy anything from there. I will tell all my friends and family about that incident. I was going in there this weekend to to buy a couple of handguns.....too bad for him. I hope he reads this too.........

adgrimm03
07-29-2009, 3:20 PM
Any buisness can refuse service to anyone if they have a sing posted,it is the law. But just like you I think we have all ran into our fair share of self intitled gun shop empoyee/owners. Your best bet VOTE WITH YOUR WALLET. Send them no more buisness and dont go back there again. Buy the way I know a great gun store in Livermore Nor-cal that would be happy to do some PPT'S and the staff and owner are first class J&R Sports supply. I know this is a little drive but I just want to let you know that there are good FFL'S out there.

Rukus
07-29-2009, 3:25 PM
Any buisness can refuse service to anyone if they have a sing posted,it is the law.

This is not true of FFL's. If they sell handguns, they cannot legally turn down a PPT. Stores like Big 5 however can turn handgun PPT down because they don't normally stock those type of items.

Try Gussler's, Unique pawn, Royal pawn and loan and California Police Equipment for the tranfers. All of them know they're stuff and are friendly.

Trapper
07-29-2009, 3:26 PM
I live in La Mesa with in walking distance from Fine Firearms and will not do business with them. Most of their used firearms are overpriced and I never cared for the attitude in the shop.
There are several local FFL's that I would recommend;
Don Gussler (619)258-2543
Mitch De Chiel (619)437-6342
Royal Loan (619)284-2274
Some of the shops and ranges have been slow to assist with PPT's but I've never had one refuse to process the paperwork.

Chopper
07-29-2009, 3:28 PM
+1 on Iron Sights in Oceanside. The best. No hassle. Quick. Extremely pleasant place.

Trapper
07-29-2009, 3:31 PM
It's true that a store doesn't make much on the transfer but if they establish themselves as a knowledgeable and friendly they will make a customer for life. Most stores make their money on ammo and accessories long after the initial firearm has been sold.

quickcf
07-29-2009, 3:32 PM
Tell the DOJ exactly what happened.

adgrimm03
07-29-2009, 3:35 PM
Rukus you are right. I stand corrected,but they can also cover themselves buy stating that they will only ppt by apointment only, and the customer didnt make an apointment. I know its shady as all hell but there is a million ways to CYA.

SoCalGal
07-29-2009, 3:36 PM
I contacted a moderator and asked him to move it. Thanks for the note. I wasn't sure where to post.

SoCalGal
07-29-2009, 3:37 PM
I live near Grossmont Center so Santee would be fine for me.

SoCalGal
07-29-2009, 3:40 PM
Good to know! Thank you!:)

SoCalGal
07-29-2009, 3:41 PM
I am going there in Friday and I know nothing about them. I am so relieved to see they are recommended!

SoCalGal
07-29-2009, 3:41 PM
:clap:

Schaba
07-29-2009, 3:51 PM
Good Luck

CJN8
07-29-2009, 3:54 PM
For SD transfers Don Gussler is the MAN...always a positive experience...

angryasian
07-29-2009, 3:57 PM
ROYAL LOAN in san diego

hawk1
07-29-2009, 3:59 PM
Rukus you are right. I stand corrected,but they can also cover themselves buy stating that they will only ppt by apointment only, and the customer didnt make an apointment. I know its shady as all hell but there is a million ways to CYA.

No, that is not true either. Must I dig out the written law?

MrLogan
07-29-2009, 4:07 PM
SoCalGal, don't let this one go. Contact the DOJ and inform them of what happened. They must be held accountable for their actions.

darkest2000
07-29-2009, 4:25 PM
Go to IRON SIGHTS in oceanside, CA (760) 721-4388 Talk to Cris or terry


Had the same problem with Iron Sights, wouldn't do a PPT, said they're "backlogged" with DROS from store sales. Well guess what genius they should DROS it on the spot instead of doing them in batches...

Ended up driving all the way to SD (from OC) to do the PPT at turners:rolleyes:, never again.

beemaze
07-29-2009, 4:31 PM
Had the same thing happen to me locally at another gun store. They had no problem doing a PPT a month ago and then said they couldn't do it for various B.S. reasons a couple of days ago.

We ended up going to Turner's....

SLK619
07-29-2009, 4:31 PM
I would strongly recommend Discount Gun Mart, they are pretty cool and will help you with whatever you may need. I have bought many guns from there and they have been great every time!! Good Luck with everything

Glock619
07-29-2009, 4:36 PM
damn i bought my glock at fine arms they seemed nice, even told my dads boss to go there. im having second thought now. anyone recommend a shop for duty holsters?

aermotor
07-29-2009, 4:45 PM
Yes it's against the law what they did. Call DOJ or ATF and let them know of their practices.

aermotor
07-29-2009, 4:46 PM
No, that is not true either. Must I dig out the written law?

Please dig it out yes. It's sad people have to practically carry this on them in order to do PPT sometimes.

eaglemike
07-29-2009, 4:52 PM
I live in La Mesa with in walking distance from Fine Firearms and will not do business with them. Most of their used firearms are overpriced and I never cared for the attitude in the shop.
There are several local FFL's that I would recommend;
Don Gussler (619)258-2543
Mitch De Chiel (619)437-6342
Royal Loan (619)284-2274
Some of the shops and ranges have been slow to assist with PPT's but I've never had one refuse to process the paperwork.
Royal will NOT PPT an assembled lower, even with a bullet button - even though I purchased the bare lower from them and built it in compliance with the paper they required me to sign when I purchasd it. They will not get my business any more.....

Go to Gussler's.

all the best,
Mike

kermit315
07-29-2009, 5:29 PM
tagged to watch....sorry you got screwed by a gun shop over a PPT.....it sucks.

rmrfdash
07-29-2009, 5:29 PM
+1 for Gussler's, pretty much the only FFL I'll deal with in San Diego after having to go through 3-4 FFLs trying to PPT an AR.

c good
07-29-2009, 5:42 PM
Did this shop used to be "La Mesa Collectibles"? Or another place/owner altogether?

eaglemike
07-29-2009, 6:26 PM
Did this shop used to be "La Mesa Collectibles"? Or another place/owner altogether?
That's the place.............

barrym66
07-29-2009, 7:24 PM
+1 on Gusslers...or in North County (Vista/Carlsbad/San Marcos), I highly recommend Sean at National Police Supply...

http://www.nationalpolicesupply.com/contact.php

He's great to deal with and EBR/OLL friendly.

joe55
07-29-2009, 7:46 PM
I would also like to add a "PPT as we please" dealer to the list. Not to hijack but this also happened to me a THE STOCKADE, for that I will not buy anything from them again. "Sorry we only PPT from 10am-4pm and not on the weekends". thats BS in my book.

hawk1
07-29-2009, 7:58 PM
Please dig it out yes. It's sad people have to practically carry this on them in order to do PPT sometimes.

Ok, here we go... The fees posted below are not correct as they have been increased a couple of times. Highlighted areas done by me.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/0101.pdf

TO: ALL LICENSED FIREARMS DEALERS, CHIEFS OF POLICE, SHERIFFS
OFFICES, DISTRICT ATTORNEYS

This Information Bulletin is intended to remind dealers of their obligations regarding private party transfers including the 10-day waiting period and the fees that firearms dealers are permitted by law to charge when conducting these transfers. Firearms dealers are required to conduct private party transfers pursuant to Penal Code section 12071(b)(5). Dealers may not limit the days or hours in which private party transfers are conducted.
The allowable fees are limited by statute. Pursuant to Penal Code section 12082, the fees that can be charged are as follows:
1. The private party purchaser or transferee, or person being loaned the firearm may be required by the firearms dealer to pay a fee not to exceed $10.00 per firearm, and the applicable Dealer’s Record of Sale (DROS) fee that the DOJ may charge pursuant to Penal Code section 12076. The DROS fee is currently $14.00 and the Safety fee is currently $1.00, a total of $15.00.
2. Subsequent to the end of the 10-day waiting period or one business day following the notification of the purchaser that his/her DROS has been released from a DOJ required “hold”, the dealer may charge a storage fee. However, such fees must be clearly posted and may not be misrepresented as any governmental fee.
3. Private party transfers of multiple handguns at the same time are handled as follows:
• A separate DROS must be completed for each handgun.
• The DROS/Safety fee for the first handgun is a total of $15.00.
• The DROS/Safety fee for each additional handgun is $11.00.
• The dealer may charge the buyer or transferee, or person being loaned the
firearm a fee not to exceed $10.00 per firearm, for the processing of the
private party transfer.
4. A single DROS shall be completed for any number of long gun transfers that are processed at the same time. The DROS/Safety fee for the transaction is a total of $15.00 and the dealer may charge the purchaser or transferee, or person being loaned the firearm a fee not to exceed $10.00 per firearm, for the processing of the private party transfer.
5. In a private party transfer involving a combination of handguns and long guns, a separate DROS will be required for each handgun and a single DROS will be required for any number of long guns. The DROS/Safety fees will be $15.00 for the first handgun DROS and $15.00 for the long gun DROS. There is no discount for the processing of a combination of handgun and long gun DROS.
Fees other than the DROS/Safety fee charged by the firearms dealer for sales from their own inventory or consignment sales are not addressed in the law. However, any additional fees charged by the dealer must be clearly posted and the dealer shall not misstate the amount of fees charged by a governmental agency.
Firearms dealers that violate these laws may be subject to civil or criminal penalties and/or required to pay restitution to parties that have been overcharged.
If you have any questions regarding this Information Bulletin, please visit the Firearms Division web site at http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/ or call the Firearms Division at (916) 227-3703.

pullnshoot25
07-29-2009, 7:59 PM
Wow; I've lived in San Diego Co. my whole life and hadn't heard of them, and now I'm not going there. If they charge a fee to do a PPT, what's the big deal?! Some people are just irrational.

No kidding. +1 for Gusslers!

rynando
07-29-2009, 8:06 PM
+1 to National Police Supply in Vista. I like Iron Sights' range but it's usually way too busy in there to get a PPT done without waiting around for hours.

R

SoCalGal
07-29-2009, 8:08 PM
Thanks everyone! I have more faith now and will keep on truckin'. I will try some of the places recommended and mix-it up so I don't "wear out my welcome" anywhere else.
:leaving:

bondmid003
07-29-2009, 8:39 PM
How much does Gussler's charge because if he's reasonable I'll take my business whenever I do my PPT

Ground Loop
07-29-2009, 8:54 PM
They all charge the same: $35.00 total. It's the law. They might require a lock purchase as well, which should be $10 or less.

I've had nothing but good vibes from Iron Sights. Sometimes they get busy and you have to wait in line behind other people doing paperwork.

Discount Gun also re-opened the Magnolia Indoor Range, so they might be another El Cajon/Santee option. Is El Cajon Gun Exchange still in business?

eaglemike
07-29-2009, 8:59 PM
They all charge the same: $35.00 total. It's the law. They might require a lock purchase as well, which should be $10 or less.

I've had nothing but good vibes from Iron Sights. Sometimes they get busy and you have to wait in line behind other people doing paperwork.

Discount Gun also re-opened the Magnolia Indoor Range, so they might be another El Cajon/Santee option. Is El Cajon Gun Exchange still in business?
I would never go to El Cajon Gun Exchange again. PPT there once took over a hour. The next time I went there for a PPT( a couple of months later, maybe 4 months) they did the "come back later" thing with no one else in the store for a few hours, so we gave up and went elsewhere.

Gussler charges the normal $35 for a PPT. For a dealer transfer it's $60, includes the $25 DROS. Pretty much normal prices. What makes Don better, he is professional, actually knows what he's doing. What a concept..... He also runs a few matches out at South Bay Rod & Gun Club.

all the best,
Mike

swift
07-29-2009, 9:02 PM
+1 for Gussler's!

pullnshoot25
07-29-2009, 9:09 PM
Thanks everyone! I have more faith now and will keep on truckin'. I will try some of the places recommended and mix-it up so I don't "wear out my welcome" anywhere else.
:leaving:

You should never feel unwelcome in a gun shop, no matter how often you frequent said shop. A gun shop should feel like a really comfortable room in your house... familiar, friendly and welcoming.

pdr1269
07-29-2009, 9:27 PM
Gussler's is the way to go! Only place I go!

motorhead
07-29-2009, 9:45 PM
i'm adding them to the get buggered list. i used to buy wolf there, lots of it. i thought they were good guys.

bodger
07-29-2009, 9:49 PM
I know it's out of the geographical area being discussed, but Fort Courage Armory in Simi Valley is a great gun store. We need guys like them to stay in business.
They set the example for what firearms transcations of al kinds should be like.

jvquattro
07-29-2009, 10:00 PM
Thanks everyone! I have more faith now and will keep on truckin'. I will try some of the places recommended and mix-it up so I don't "wear out my welcome" anywhere else.
:leaving:


You will never "wear out your welcome" at Gusslers! He will be glad to do ALL your transfers.

Discount (downtown) is hit or miss, they will tell you one thing over the phone, but when you get there they will tell you that they won't do it on the weekends or say not today we are too busy. . . . .:rolleyes:

Turners at Clairemont is also very willing, but they also get too busy on the weekends.

jvquattro
07-29-2009, 10:04 PM
How much does Gussler's charge because if he's reasonable I'll take my business whenever I do my PPT

$25 DROS and $10 Fee for PPT. That's the only place I go, except for weekends since they are closed :(

tntmo
07-30-2009, 12:00 AM
I did my first PPT at Wholesale Guns in Santee and had a good experience.

I called ahead and they asked that I please come in on a Friday because it was less busy at that time. Having never done a PPT I didn't know what to expect, but they were very kind and quick with the whole process. The lady running the counter was friendly and knowledgeable.

Seesm
07-30-2009, 12:25 AM
I have a local dealer I did a PPT on a .40 cal handgun they seemed ok with that... But about 1.5 months later I brought in a stripped lower and they gave me some attitude over it...

They said and I quote:

"Hey we do not make any money on this and it is a hassle, can you bring your PPT's somewhere else next time?"

I was pissed and have not been back since. I was sending them alot of our customers too... That is there loss.

We will get our FFL soon and do all the no money making deals for people with no hassles... :P

xx91x
07-30-2009, 12:58 AM
+1 on Gusslers!
Don is quick, professional, and knowledgeable. No BS.

artherd
07-30-2009, 1:38 AM
You should never feel unwelcome in a gun shop, no matter how often you frequent said shop. A gun shop should feel like a really comfortable room in your house... familiar, friendly and welcoming.

Exactly!

This FFL violated law, and was rude to a new gunny. Sad.

ENTHUSIAST
07-30-2009, 2:28 AM
Gusslers.

hooookup
07-30-2009, 7:27 AM
If you are denied a PPT by any store call the CA DOJ @ 916-263-4887
Ask for Mike Kelly

I just spoke with Mike re: Turners policy at the Kearny Mesa store. Turners recently refused my PPT because it was too late in the day and they were closing in a few hours. There is also a sign posted on their front door that states they will not conduct PPT's within 1 hour of closing due to the amount of time it takes to complete. They CA DOJ says that's illegal and they are going to pay them a visit.

Ground Loop
07-30-2009, 8:12 AM
Right on hoookup. It's not like WE like to do the PPT either. It's because it's The Law, and it's costly, and it's a big hassle, and there's lots of paperwork.

I don't see how any FFL (licensed to sell guns for a profit) gets to set arbitrary limits or refusals. It's all the same law that makes me show up with my $35.

I wonder what the FFL would do if someone said "Oh well, we really tried. Let's make a note of the salesman, store, time, and date. Here's your gun Mr. Calbuyer. Have a nice day."

KylaGWolf
07-30-2009, 8:50 AM
I like either Southern California guns on Balboa or Discount Gun Mart in the Linda Vista area.

hawk1
07-30-2009, 10:53 AM
Right on hoookup. It's not like WE like to do the PPT either. It's because it's The Law, and it's costly, and it's a big hassle, and there's lots of paperwork.

I don't see how any FFL (licensed to sell guns for a profit) gets to set arbitrary limits or refusals. It's all the same law that makes me show up with my $35.

I wonder what the FFL would do if someone said "Oh well, we really tried. Let's make a note of the salesman, store, time, and date. Here's your gun Mr. Calbuyer. Have a nice day."

This is exactly why the OP and anyone else that has had this problem call the DOJ and report any FFL that will not do or puts limits on PPT's.
To just ignore those FFL's and go elsewhere really isn't fair to the other FFL's that will do PPT's and places an extra burden on them.

marc4
07-30-2009, 11:33 AM
I also have done business with Fine Firearms thru gunbroker. After I won the bid, I told him I'm going to do the dros with him since I was local and he refuse since he didn't want to be hassled with the paperwork. So we agreed to PPT it at Riflegear. Then he calls me back to say he has to ship it because its in his FFL books and can't PPT it. Why be in the business if you don't want to deal with customers?

lorax3
07-30-2009, 11:55 AM
Do we know the type of firearm it was? Was it an OLL or AR/AK type weapon? Those guys are very anti-OLL, I would be more understanding of a denied PPT for an OLL, then a non-OLL type weapon.

Trapper
07-30-2009, 12:58 PM
She didn't have anything advertised in her post that would raise any questions for PPT. Mostly older firearms, nothing OLL or AK.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=206135

Josh_in_SD
07-30-2009, 2:17 PM
I hate to see this kinda thing happening, since it wasn't happening to me when I got started buying guns in SD 6-8 years ago but seems to be lately.

I'd only shopped at Fine Firearms back when it was La Mesa Collectables, and the SoCalGun was next to it, and had a good experience. I had a good experience at the La Mesa SCG, for that matter, buying my first handgun there on my 21st birthday and having one of the guys hand me a box of Golden Sabres as a present on my way out the door.

I've had good experiences at Turners and Wholesale and El Cajon and Discount. Even most of the Big 5's are decent. Doing my first transfer with Gussler's tomorrow. Also was pleased with Royal Loan on OLL purchases.

I hate SCG on Convoy. It's like I have to establish bonafides as a shooter for them to treat me with anything other than contempt, or ignore me. Likewise, a bad experience at Duncans and a mediocre experience at Iron Sights left me wanting.

Just remember: vote with your wallet. Don't go back to a store that treats you like dirt. Also remember that no FFL can charge more than $35 for a PPT, and keep DOJ's number in your cell phone. I've pulled it out and dialed them while standing at the counter.

MrLogan
07-30-2009, 2:33 PM
Thanks everyone! I have more faith now and will keep on truckin'. I will try some of the places recommended and mix-it up so I don't "wear out my welcome" anywhere else.
:leaving:

I really hope that you decide to give the DOJ a call and inform them about what happened.

Khram
07-30-2009, 3:18 PM
I would also like to add a "PPT as we please" dealer to the list. Not to hijack but this also happened to me a THE STOCKADE, for that I will not buy anything from them again. "Sorry we only PPT from 10am-4pm and not on the weekends". thats BS in my book.

They actually have this posted in the shop! Very brave/stupid of them. Also this is posted in their sister store, Fowlers.

bondmid003
07-30-2009, 4:12 PM
I just bought my 226 from SoCalGun, with no problems but everyone has different experiences i'm sure

eaglemike
07-30-2009, 4:23 PM
I just bought my 226 from SoCalGun, with no problems but everyone has different experiences i'm sure
Ummm, The thread is about PPT's. Most gunshops will take your money, especially for a Sig. There are gun shops that will not take your money for a OLL, though.
all th ebest,
Mike

tmuller
07-30-2009, 5:18 PM
I will try some of the places recommended and mix-it up so I don't "wear out my welcome" anywhere else.
No need to move around...if Gusslers is close, which it should be if you're in La Mesa, take your business there. I've also always had very good luck with Mike and the guys at Socal Gun on Convoy as well as the Turners on Clairemont.

gunsmith
07-30-2009, 9:43 PM
Call DOJ and explain exactly what happened and that you would expect DOJ to do something about it.

Part of being allowed to sell firearms in California means they must do PPT's. We all understand that $10 is not much, but when you add in the fact that they are given the privilege of selling firearms it adds up to more money. Something many dealers do want to recognize.

I had no idea!

Seesm
07-30-2009, 9:49 PM
Make that DOJ call.... All the FFL's need to stick to the letter of the law IMHO...

Ground Loop
07-30-2009, 10:30 PM
(I like Don just fine, but Iron Sights has hours that better match mine. :) )

Admittedly, $10 isn't much, but I've had PPTs turned around in <5 minutes by efficient staff. Iron Sights has it down to a routine, and with two prepared people who are paying attention -- it gets done in a hurry.

Sure, they have to store the gun for 10 days, and do a little more paperwork on pick-up, but now they have two shooters in the store (one of them twice) a likely Lock sale, and a good relationship with proven gun buyers.

Jpach
07-30-2009, 10:43 PM
I say you should call the DOJ and let them know whats up. I really think its BS when people think that they can screw others just because they own the place that you are in. I would LOVE to see a jerk FFL get the crap spanked out of him/her.

tenpercentfirearms
07-31-2009, 5:59 AM
Please call the DOJ. They dared you to, so do it.

We actually had a really good discussion on PPT here in the past and technically PPTs must be properly requested.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=117004&highlight=private+party+transfer

I was supposed to try working with the DOJ to get them to generate this form, but have been busy. I will try again.

L8Apex619
07-31-2009, 8:17 AM
Try Gussler's. You might have to give him a call to set an appointment since he works out of his house, but he'll do a PPT for you no problems.

Gussler's
phone: (619) 258-2543
email: gusslers@gmail.com
Santee, CA 92071


+1 on Gussler's.

While I am yet to have used him myself, I have spoken with him on the phone a couple times, and he is (extremely) agreeable (in will), reasonable (in price), and knowledgeable (of laws)...

I have browsed through FF, and quite frankly, if in this unprecedented boom cycle in the industry a store owner is so greedy that he won't provide the 2A-friendly courtesy of conducting a PPT on the simple grounds that it's one less gun he could be selling, then browsing is the extent of my business they will receive.

While it is his right as a dealer to charge whatever he wants for his own merchandise and to deny such acts of courtesy, it is our right as consumers to take our money elsewhere.

L8Apex619
07-31-2009, 8:28 AM
Ok, here we go...

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/0101.pdf

TO: ALL LICENSED FIREARMS DEALERS, CHIEFS OF POLICE, SHERIFFS
OFFICES, DISTRICT ATTORNEYS


Thanks for that hawk. :thumbsup:

Add that to the list of things I have learned at/from CG... I just might print this out and arrange to PPT one of SCG's pieces from FF just for poops and giggles. :chris:

L8Apex619
07-31-2009, 8:36 AM
Is El Cajon Gun Exchange still in business?

I used to go in there all the time when I was coming up in the '80s, to buy plinking ammo and browse the .30 carbines on their racks.

During my last trip there a couple months ago, the gentleman behind the counter demanded I let him scan my driver's license before he would sell me a box of range ammo. :chris:

I offered to let him see my license to verify my age, but he insisted I let him scan it.


I refused, left the box of ammo on the counter and walked out. I will never enter their store again.

snobord99
07-31-2009, 10:01 AM
My response to that would have been "oh, hmm, I thought you were required by law to do the transfer if you're an FFL. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to check with the DOJ to see if I'm right."

SoCalGal
07-31-2009, 12:51 PM
I actually did say, "I thought you are required by law to do PPTs. I mean, we have to go somewhere to do them."
He said, "Yeah, well call the DOJ. They know me over there."
I have called the DOJ and I kept getting transferred around. No one seemed to understand so I am going to try again.

SoCalGal
07-31-2009, 12:55 PM
He didn't even look at the gun. He just walked up to me and said he didn't feel like doing a PPT.

halifax
07-31-2009, 1:11 PM
I actually did say, "I thought you are required by law to do PPTs. I mean, we have to go somewhere to do them."
He said, "Yeah, well call the DOJ. They know me over there."
I have called the DOJ and I kept getting transferred around. No one seemed to understand so I am going to try again.

He invited you (dared you) to call the DOJ because "they know me over there"!!

WTH is up with that?

MrLogan
07-31-2009, 1:25 PM
He invited you (dared you) to call the DOJ because "they know me over there"!!

WTH is up with that?

Call his bluff! :mad:

Tallship
07-31-2009, 1:33 PM
He didn't even look at the gun. He just walked up to me and said he didn't feel like doing a PPT.

Was this an older guy with a beard? Let me know, I know the guys over there.

snobord99
07-31-2009, 3:06 PM
Call his bluff! :mad:

I sure as hell would have. And if he "knows" someone at the DOJ that would allow them to escape any repercussions, I'd do my damnedest to go above that person's head.

bondmid003
07-31-2009, 4:23 PM
Ummm, The thread is about PPT's. Most gunshops will take your money, especially for a Sig. There are gun shops that will not take your money for a OLL, though.
all th ebest,
Mike

I was referring to their overall customer service, and the way they spoke to me

dwh100
07-31-2009, 4:31 PM
I certainly hope you didn't give them your firearms to put on consignment after being treated so poorly. They are legally obligated to do PPTs if they are an FFL service. As much as the DOJ can go pound sand, perhaps you ought to tell them your story!

KylaGWolf
07-31-2009, 4:39 PM
damn i bought my glock at fine arms they seemed nice, even told my dads boss to go there. im having second thought now. anyone recommend a shop for duty holsters?

California Police Equipment has a good selection. Also Gull Uniforms on Clairmont Mesa.

WallyGeorge
07-31-2009, 4:46 PM
Sorry to hear about the way you were treated.

After contacting the CA DOJ with your complaint, you should invite the owner to visit Calguns and see how much bad press he is generating. Might change his/other FFL's minds about snubbing PPT customers?

IMHO, PPT's are just a cost of doing business in CA...

KylaGWolf
07-31-2009, 4:47 PM
I hate to see this kinda thing happening, since it wasn't happening to me when I got started buying guns in SD 6-8 years ago but seems to be lately.

I'd only shopped at Fine Firearms back when it was La Mesa Collectables, and the SoCalGun was next to it, and had a good experience. I had a good experience at the La Mesa SCG, for that matter, buying my first handgun there on my 21st birthday and having one of the guys hand me a box of Golden Sabres as a present on my way out the door.

I've had good experiences at Turners and Wholesale and El Cajon and Discount. Even most of the Big 5's are decent. Doing my first transfer with Gussler's tomorrow. Also was pleased with Royal Loan on OLL purchases.

I hate SCG on Convoy. It's like I have to establish bonafides as a shooter for them to treat me with anything other than contempt, or ignore me. Likewise, a bad experience at Duncans and a mediocre experience at Iron Sights left me wanting.

Just remember: vote with your wallet. Don't go back to a store that treats you like dirt. Also remember that no FFL can charge more than $35 for a PPT, and keep DOJ's number in your cell phone. I've pulled it out and dialed them while standing at the counter.

That is odd I have received nothing but fantastic service everytime I go to that So Cal Guns location. They have never ignored me nor treated me with anything less than good service. I have had many good transactions with Discount. Now the one that I refuse to shop in is American Shooting Gallery.

steve40
08-01-2009, 1:43 AM
I actually did say, "I thought you are required by law to do PPTs. I mean, we have to go somewhere to do them."
He said, "Yeah, well call the DOJ. They know me over there."
I have called the DOJ and I kept getting transferred around. No one seemed to understand so I am going to try again.



wow, cant believe he said that. the fact that a FFL dealer said that sounds that they might be doing something shady....

bondmid003
08-01-2009, 7:54 AM
is American Shooting Gallery different than American Shooting Center?

makav3li
08-01-2009, 11:49 PM
are that the gun store across the street from costco? if it is i wont even step foot there

RandyD
08-04-2009, 2:32 PM
I did an independent inquiry into this matter and was provided with another version of the op's conduct. I was specifically asked to not speak on behalf of the store and to not publish their side of the story, but I must say I am disappointed to read that some of you are so quick to accept one side of a story without doing your own due dilligence or without listening to both sides.

DTOM CA!
08-04-2009, 3:08 PM
I think we are all open to and welcome the Stores side of the story. They are invited to give there side of what happened. If most of what the Lady said is true then they have some "splainin" to do. I own my own small business and even when it is not my fault or I am not going to make money on the sale I always bite my tongue and see it through. In this economy you can not afford to piss off anyone and get a bad reputation even if your not real happy with the customer IMO. I know another gun shop that had the DOJ come down on them and it was like being audited by the IRS.

rambo
08-04-2009, 3:42 PM
I say go to royal loan they are great super friendly and usualy have what i want. I purchased a few handguns from fine fire arms and they were ok but not impressed. I took my brother there and everything they promised him was wrong after they took his money. AMMO WAY overpriced. i was going to buy a used wheel gun they had but I will keep lookin now!

eaglemike
08-04-2009, 3:58 PM
Neither Royal or Fine Firearms will PPT an assembled lower, even though it is legal. I did call them both and ask. I have purchased a firearm from Fine Firearms (back when it was La Mesa Collectibles, and an expensive gun it was). I purchased the lower in question from Royal, and built it in agreement with the document they required me to sign. I will no longer do business with either place. Even though I comply with the law, they will not. 'nuff said....

all the best,
Mike

snobord99
08-04-2009, 4:07 PM
I'm definitely open to hearing both sides of the story, but in all honesty, I have a hard time imagining what she could have done here to warrant not doing a PPT. I imagine her request for a PPT was followed by either a yes or no. I don't see why there would be a problem if they said yes and if the store said no first, they were wrong to start with.

if something happened before the "I want to do a PPT," then that's a whole other story (one I'd love to hear from both sides).

kermit315
08-04-2009, 5:52 PM
I did an independent inquiry into this matter and was provided with another version of the op's conduct. I was specifically asked to not speak on behalf of the store and to not publish their side of the story, but I must say I am disappointed to read that some of you are so quick to accept one side of a story without doing your own due dilligence or without listening to both sides.

so, either put the information out there, or let people make their minds up based on the information present. And, its not really surprising that you got another story, they arent going to throw themselves under the bus.

Refusing to do a PPT is pretty black and white, and if the store knows this thread exists and chooses not to come on here to clear the air, then they must not be too worried about what people think of them.

MiguelS
08-04-2009, 6:04 PM
I did an independent inquiry into this matter and was provided with another version of the op's conduct. I was specifically asked to not speak on behalf of the store and to not publish their side of the story, but I must say I am disappointed to read that some of you are so quick to accept one side of a story without doing your own due dilligence or without listening to both sides.

Thanks for hiding the truth.

Keep it a secret.:rolleyes:

RandyD
08-04-2009, 7:29 PM
The main purpose of my post was to state that there was another side of this story.

To kermit315 and MiguelS did you read the following statement in my post;"I was specifically asked to not speak on behalf of the store and to not publish their side of the story." I am simply keeping the confidence that was entrusted to me. If you are so curious, stop being critical of me for not disclosing it, and do your own due dilligence, its really quite simple.

KylaGWolf
08-04-2009, 10:25 PM
Randy the whole point is legally they cannot refuse to do a PPT. If they do they are in violation of the law. Nothing they can say to the contrary will change that fact.

RandyD
08-04-2009, 11:22 PM
KylaGWolf, I read all of the posts and understand that point. I am not defending the store, I am simply saying that there is another side to this event that has not been disclosed and until that is know there is reason enough to withhold judgment. The owner of the store should explain his reasonings for his decision.

halifax
08-05-2009, 4:23 AM
OK, I'll take a shot at this mystery: The owner of the store thinks the OP is dealing without a license because she is selling too many guns to be considered occasional sales. Rightly or wrongly, I suppose he does have the right to choose not to participate in what he sees as a possible illegal activity.

Just a guess.

motorhead
08-05-2009, 6:42 AM
so where is the other side? in court if you don't show up to defend your case you lose by default. they harm their cause by playing the "big friggin secret" game. there are always 2 sides to every story. whether both matter is subject for discussion. a member posted here with a valid complaint.

hooookup
08-05-2009, 7:30 AM
Spoke with the DOJ this morning in a follow up to a previous contact I had with them and I asked them if they were aware of the Fine Firearms guys refusing to do PPT's and the guy I was speaking with said he was well aware and they were going to be paying them a visit as well. He reiterated that it is a violation of the law for an FFL to deny an individual a PPT. Apparently, they've been following this thread.

DTOM CA!
08-05-2009, 8:13 AM
Spoke with the DOJ this morning in a follow up to a previous contact I had with them and I asked them if they were aware of the Fine Firearms guys refusing to do PPT's and the guy I was speaking with said he was well aware and they were going to be paying them a visit as well. He reiterated that it is a violation of the law for an FFL to deny an individual a PPT. Apparently, they've been following this thread.

Is this true ? Welcome DOJ. I think it would be great for them to have a Representative to respond on CG. I would think that if suspected someone doing a PPT for illegal means you would need to report it right away ? I was trying to think of a reason to deny a PPT. Can you refuse if they have Nazi tatoos all over or are dressed like a Blood gang member ? How about if they resemble Boxer or Fienstien ? jk.

motorhead
08-05-2009, 8:15 AM
no shoes, no shirt, no ppt!

chaled
08-05-2009, 8:58 AM
Irons Sites in Oceanside will do PPT's. Take 5 north, 76 East, about 2min east on your left side before the airport.

sausage450r
08-18-2009, 6:32 PM
i've done 3 ppts at discount in el cajon in the past 2 months. no problems. I shoot there as well, and have purchased new firearms from them. they have great prices. and i've usually purchased other items when doing a PPT (grips, snapcaps, etc.). I can understand how it may be a pain for some places if they are busy with customers they are making more money from. but if you find a shop you like. establish yourself as a regular, and you will be treated well from my experiences.