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civilsnake
07-29-2009, 12:30 PM
I'm having a hell of a time figuring out what's wrong with my shooting.

Does anyone know what the sights on a P226 9mm are zeroed for? At 21 feet, even if I can avoid flinching or jerking, the shots are all coming in low. Like 2-4 inches low. This is with 115 grain factory ammo. I doubt the gun was specifically designed to run with heavier ammo, but that might help bring the shots up a bit.

I'm sure anticipating and my grip are mostly to blame, but you'd think some might be somewhere other than simpy low... Running a Glock with the same ammo places them more or less at point of aim.

The only things I can figure are that it's sighted at 25 yards or the trigger geometry just isn't for me. Even dry firing I can't seem to eliminate a slight downward tick when I pull the trigger.

Comments or suggestion?

Iknownot
07-29-2009, 12:35 PM
You may just be used to the glock's grip and it is throwing you off. I know it's pretty much the other way around for me, going sig to glock, the times I"ve done so renting at the range, at least until I've run some rounds through the glock and gotten used to it.

Every sig I've ever shot seemed to hit pretty much where I pointed it.

MiguelS
07-29-2009, 12:45 PM
I am just throwing things out there.
Grip - is the finger resting at the same location as your other pistols.
DA ??
SA spring load difference?
Heavier gun.

I have shot all mine and they hit where I shoot, then again, farthest I shoot out is 15 yds.

edit: I re-read, you said 21ft...man, I am dead on at 7 yds on all my pistols.

civilsnake
07-29-2009, 2:12 PM
You may just be used to the glock's grip and it is throwing you off. I know it's pretty much the other way around for me, going sig to glock, the times I"ve done so renting at the range, at least until I've run some rounds through the glock and gotten used to it.

Every sig I've ever shot seemed to hit pretty much where I pointed it.

I own the SIG and rented the Glock, so I'm used to the SIG much more. When I shot the Glock 17, the shots weren't much more precise, but the spread was more equally distributed high/low instead of all low.

I am just throwing things out there.
Grip - is the finger resting at the same location as your other pistols.
DA ??
SA spring load difference?
Heavier gun.

I have shot all mine and they hit where I shoot, then again, farthest I shoot out is 15 yds.

edit: I re-read, you said 21ft...man, I am dead on at 7 yds on all my pistols.

I'm by no means a great shooter. But offhand with my mkIII I can put them all in a couple inches at that range. With the SIG they're low and have a sloppier grouping. I know a lot of it is weight and flinching, but even when I get what I would consider a good shot, it ends up lower than I would expect. Even from a bench they're lower than I expect. Which is why I ask about what range the sights are zeroed at.

Futurecollector
07-29-2009, 2:13 PM
Does your Sig shoot low,
Does it wobble too and fro
can you tie it in a knot
can you tie it a bow
can you throw it over your shoulder.....

thats enough haha

CA_SHARPSHOOTER
07-29-2009, 2:15 PM
mine actually shoots high or maybe its me:confused:

ldivinag
07-29-2009, 2:46 PM
i had similar issues when i got my P220ST...

turns out the operator needed adjusting...

:)

creampuff
07-29-2009, 2:53 PM
I always thought Sig's have combat sights, in which the front sight should slightly cover the target; as opposed to target sights where it is almost like a pumpkin sitting on a post.

This is vague recollection from something I read from years ago, not to be mistaken for fact :o.

sammy
07-29-2009, 3:24 PM
I had a 220 that shot 2" low. I never had a decent shooter confirm it but who knows. I miss that gun.

M1A Rifleman
07-29-2009, 3:55 PM
My 228 shoots point of aim. So with a 6 o-clock hold on a four or six inch bull, it would seem to shoot 2 to 3 inches low if you expect it to hit the center of the bull.

JBird33
07-29-2009, 4:06 PM
It is probably the way you are using the sights, as another person already posted. I went from shooting mostly Glocks to shooting a Kahr I recently picked up, which has similar sights to a Sig. I was shooting perfect left-to-right, but about 2-4" low. I wasn't "dotting the i" high enough, basically. I was using the combat sights on the Kahr the same as I was using the Mep's on my Glock.

civilsnake
07-29-2009, 4:20 PM
It is probably the way you are using the sights, as another person already posted. I went from shooting mostly Glocks to shooting a Kahr I recently picked up, which has similar sights to a Sig. I was shooting perfect left-to-right, but about 2-4" low. I wasn't "dotting the i" high enough, basically. I was using the combat sights on the Kahr the same as I was using the Mep's on my Glock.

BAM. I think you may have nailed it. I didn't realize that the Glock sights were based on a different sight picture than the SIG. Well, obviously it looks different based on the design, but I didn't realize that the Glock sights are calibrated to sit under point of impact.

I think maybe it's time to take a mega pack to the range and sort this whole mess out...

Sheepdog1968
07-29-2009, 6:47 PM
The Sigs I've shot are all spot on. There is one user error that I am aware of. After you press the trigger, keep your eye focused on the front sight and the trigger back, I know this sounds obvious, but it is a very common mistake. What happens is that people press the trigger and then stop looking at the front sight and want to look and see where they are hitting. This results in shots going low. I suffer from this user error. That's my two cents.

rtlltj
07-29-2009, 6:51 PM
With my glock 19 I use the 6 o clock hold so the first time I shot my new p229 it was hitting a little low. I now shoot the sig on target if I actually place the sights on the bullseye. Just took a small adjustment due to the sights and grip angle.

gimmejr
07-29-2009, 7:00 PM
If Im having trouble with my shooting I find someone else at the range to shoot it, usually someone who knows what they are doing. Most people dont mind specially if they are using your ammo.

dchang0
07-29-2009, 10:43 PM
I am glad you asked this question and got these sight-alignment answers. I was having the exact same problem with a S&W CS9 that was gunsmith-zeroed at 25yds. It was coming in 4" low at 7yds. I realize now that I had forgotten that the sights aren't 6 o' clock hold! Duh!

esskay
07-29-2009, 11:05 PM
Incidentally, even with fixed sights, you can get replacement sights in differing heights for your Sig -- so you can adjust the gun to the sight picture YOU want rather than having to adjust your technique to the gun! ;)

DCF
07-29-2009, 11:57 PM
I shoot low on my sig 226 but my grouping has no problem. I adjusted my point of aim and I can hit mostly in the small and large 10 ring at 10 to 15 yds now. My ex marine buddy said he has no problem with the sight and it doesn't shoot low. He can pretty much stay in the 10X ring all day long at the same distance.

kicker72
07-30-2009, 1:33 AM
Did you let someone else shoot it to see if it's not just you. What kind of grip are you using to grip your gun?

Jonathan Doe
07-30-2009, 5:09 AM
Mine shoots where it supposed to.

Grayblue
07-30-2009, 7:34 AM
One possible cause I've noticed is that a lot of shooters started to use the dots and bar paintings on the sights for aim reference point without knowing how to use them.

Those are not supposed to be primary aiming device, as it was designed to be a supplement for low light conditions. When the iron sights' out line is used for aiming, the top of the front sight center is the aiming reference with the top of the front and rear sight level with each other.

I've shot SIG, Glock, H&K, Beretta, etc. And, they all shot point of aim, with the correct iron sight picture(with the top center of front sight as aiming reference point on the point of impact), like a combat pistol should.

But, for some reason, someone spread the idea of always using the dots and bar paintings, which cannot be precise as the iron sights itself by design. No expert that I am aware of advocates this. And, with Von Stavenhagen style paintings(the dot over the bar style), some get elevation error because they don't know how far above the bar the dot has to float over or whether if the dot has to touch the bar.

Grayblue
07-30-2009, 7:46 AM
I shoot low on my sig 226 but my grouping has no problem. I adjusted my point of aim and I can hit mostly in the small and large 10 ring at 10 to 15 yds now. My ex marine buddy said he has no problem with the sight and it doesn't shoot low. He can pretty much stay in the 10X ring all day long at the same distance.
This is probably the symptom I was talking about in my previous post. Military teaches correct way to use iron sights. They learn with rifles(M16A2 or A4), and those don't have paintings on them. More than likely that's why your Marine buddy can hit well with the very same pistol.

Ross
07-30-2009, 7:47 AM
The Sigs do have combat sights.

With my P90 a can hit a quarter at 7 yards, consitently.

With the P226 (9mm) I am 2-3 inches low, directly below the bulls, at 10-12 yards, and make a hole the size of a quarter with a full magazine.

I think it has to do with the quality control of the new an improved Sig.

BTW - my 226 was built 3/08 and came to me shooting 3" to the left and 6" low @ 10 yards. After much fuss (Ken at Sig claimed they do not warrenty accuracy, just that their product will go bang), Diane (Tthe CS manager) had me return the weapon and front sight was replaced.

J-cat
07-30-2009, 8:13 AM
You need to benchrest your Sig and shoot it off a rest or sandbags. Aim so that the top of the front sight is indexed against the bottom of the bullseye. The gun should be dead-on, hitting POA every time.

J-cat
07-30-2009, 8:15 AM
Does your Sig shoot low,
Does it wobble too and fro
can you tie it in a knot
can you tie it a bow
can you throw it over your shoulder.....

thats enough haha

U ain't right, lol!

Ross
07-30-2009, 8:30 AM
You need to benchrest your Sig and shoot it off a rest or sandbags. Aim so that the top of the front sight is indexed against the bottom of the bullseye. The gun should be dead-on, hitting POA every time.


Do you realize what combat sights are?

With the above description, the POA is aprox 1-2" BELOW the bulls at 10 yrds.